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Post by Phantom on Aug 5, 2019 17:37:30 GMT
Keep in mind Kids that as of ME3, 99% of the Milk Way is unexplored....Explorations being mundane or exciting will depend on the writing or how much pineapple pizza we have.
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Post by Iakus on Aug 5, 2019 17:57:03 GMT
Keep in mind Kids that as of ME3, 99% of the Milk Way is unexplored....Explorations being mundane or exciting will depend on the writing or how much pineapple pizza we have. But...but...the Milky Way and it's hundred billion (100,000,000,000) stars are BORING!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2019 17:57:08 GMT
What I'm saying is that most places we visited in the Milky Way were sparsely populated, especially when you consider the radii given for those planets... many of whch were more than 2X the size of earth with a stated population in the pop-ups being miniscule in comparison to earth. The two space stations (i.e. the Citadel and Omega) and populations in the millions but other orbital stations had stated small populations as well. Other planets in those visited clusters were described as being uninhabitable. We did visit clusters in all quadrants of the Milky Way, so there is another problem if we go to adjacent new clusters to encounter large, advanced civilizations there... How then do you explain the notion that the Reapers were not harvesting those advanced civilizations as well? It's the combination of things that were stated about the Milky Way in the OT that actually leaves little room to "explore" the truly unknown and to encounter advanded unknown civilizations in the galaxy. The Reapers were purported to scour the entire galaxy and eliminate every advanced civilization every 50,000 years. They were said to have been "absolutely thorough" in that task. I really don't care if 99.99999% of the space in the galaxy hasn't been shown to us. I believe they have hamstringed themselves into not being able to show us anything of much difference than what we've already seen... and if there using what we've already seen, they have to either stay true to it or explain why it changed (retcon it). I see that as a negative and, therefore, see the better alternative to stick with the new and unknown setting of Andromeda. Ok, still not sure what any of this has to do with Feros but to generally answer: I mostly agree. I think a new game in the Milky Way would not be like a new game in Andromeda at all. It would be less about exploration and exploring new systems (tough people would still do that of course) and probably more about dealing with the established races and structures. E.g. in a post destruction ending game, I'd like to see a main story line about the political aftermath of the reaper war. How the races recover, how the losses, especially for the bigger powers now might raise ambitions for the smaller ones. How the struggle for survival in the aftermath of all the destruction the reapers wrought stokes new conflicts among the powers that be. I think something like that could be very interesting.
That is not to say you couldn't have any new species at all. First of all, I don't think we've actually met all established species in council space. IIRC, Barla Van at one poijt talks about "dozens" of species living on the Citadel". On the other hand, while I agree, there are probably no great empires or a complete second relay network out there, there are relays we never activated and they may lead to civilizations that may be either yet smaller or on the brink of discovering eezo tech (like the yahg are for example). The reapers may not have bothered with them yet because their first goal would have been to take out the galaxy wide resistance against them by the more organized and clearly most dangerous enemy, which was us.
So there is wiggle room there for sure. But as I said, I'd also rather go with another Andromeda game.
You mentioned the key point though... any civilization you discover would have to have been not advanced enough for the Reapers to have considered harvesting them... and the Reapers were clearly said to have scoured the entire galaxy, regardless of how much of it the Council-related species discovered of it. Therefore, you're not going to encounter species advanced enough to have tech equivalent or superior to that of the Milky Way species we already know about.
If you're going with a "rebuilding" theme, then you have to deal with the reduced populations and decimation of the tech of the species we are familiar with. In the OT, the MW species are not, as the Protheans were, on the cusp of figuring out how relays work. Of course, synthesis would provide us with that knowledge and enable fast-tracking of the rebuilding... but, I'm betting that those fans here who are purporting to declare a canon ending and go forward in the Milky Way with a ME3 sequel are not really in favor of using the synthesis ending as canon.
There is always "wiggle room" and multiple options. Andromeda is just a setting. It isn't toxic.
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Post by AnDromedary on Aug 5, 2019 17:57:59 GMT
Keep in mind Kids that as of ME3, 99% of the Milk Way is unexplored....Explorations being mundane or exciting will depend on the writing or how much pineapple pizza we have. Yes but I do get UpUp's point that the way the narrative of the reapers and the war worked, it would be tough to explain, if there were still too much to find outside of our explored space, that the reapers wouldn't have cared about. At least, I do also think that we can rule out a completely unknown civilization on our level just showing up out of the blue. It would be a tough sell to explain why the reapers would have just ignored something like that. You mentioned the key point though... any civilization you discover would have to have been not advanced enough for the Reapers to have considered harvesting them... and the Reapers were clearly said to have scoured the entire galaxy, regardless of how much of it the Council-related species discovered of it. Therefore, you're not going to encounter species advanced enough to have tech equivalent or superior to that of the Milky Way species we already know about. Yep, that's pretty much what I just wrote in response to phantom as well. With the little addition/caveat that the reapers might have ignored some more advanced (but still not as advanced as us) civs for now, as long as they were still embroiled in the war with us, sot here is that. Well, I'm just saying, I could work with it. Also, I think the reduced population, technology and such could actually be an advantage in terms of story telling. It could make the MW feel a bit bigger again (IMO, it felt much "smaller" in ME3 than ME1, everything seemed so much more closely connected). I wouldn't mind if that was the case, in fact, I'd build on it and use it for the story. But that's just me. Sure.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Aug 5, 2019 18:04:22 GMT
Keep in mind Kids that as of ME3, 99% of the Milk Way is unexplored....Explorations being mundane or exciting will depend on the writing or how much pineapple pizza we have. Make mine a chilli minced beef pizza. Also, ask TIMY boy if he knows the difference between justice and Punishment. (that's a clue on what fic crossover I'm writing...😛)
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Post by themikefest on Aug 5, 2019 18:36:45 GMT
Keep in mind Kids that as of ME3, 99% of the Milk Way is unexplored....Explorations being mundane or exciting will depend on the writing or how much pineapple pizza we have. Ah yes, pineapple pizza. excellent. And yes to 99% of Milky Way hasn't been explored.
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Post by NotN7 on Aug 5, 2019 19:23:27 GMT
Keep in mind Kids that as of ME3, 99% of the Milk Way is unexplored....Explorations being mundane or exciting will depend on the writing or how much pineapple pizza we have. Ah yes, pineapple pizza. excellent. And yes to 99% of Milky Way hasn't been explored. Hehe can't eat pizza but to 99%
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 5, 2019 20:13:13 GMT
I suppose we could have a few civilizations at human pre-FCW levels in the ME3 timeframe without straining credibility. They'd have been on the Reapers' to-do list after cleaning up the Citadel races, but since that never happened, maybe they never saw a Reaper.
If we time-jump forward a few centuries then such a civilization could become reasonably powerful, particularly since the Citadel races seemed to be content to plateau.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2019 21:30:52 GMT
I suppose we could have a few civilizations at human pre-FCW levels in the ME3 timeframe without straining credibility. They'd have been on the Reapers' to-do list after cleaning up the Citadel races, but since that never happened, maybe they never saw a Reaper. If we time-jump forward a few centuries then such a civilization could become reasonably powerful, particularly since the Citadel races seemed to be content to plateau. I don't see where that does anything different than just staying in Andromeda; but hey, it's your proposal. As I said, I'm not getting into telling Bioware what write. That just leads to disappointment when they don't write what you've told them to. I'm just pointing out, academically, that, if they stay within the Milky Way they either have to stay true to the Reaper plot or they have to retcon an explanation. This would fall under reconning an explanation.
How are you going to justify keeping Shepard and his/her entire crew from all three games alives for a few centuries?
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 5, 2019 22:06:41 GMT
I'm just assuming arguendo that Andromeda really is toxic. I don't have any stake in the truth of that proposition, but if that's where people want the thread to go, I'll play.
As for Shepard and crew, I didn't say I wanted them back. Although Matriarch Liara can come back, as long as she's curdled into someone like Kreia. Maybe Grunt too.
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Post by themikefest on Aug 5, 2019 22:30:58 GMT
What use would t'soni serve in a game that takes place x numbers of years after the events of ME3?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2019 0:17:57 GMT
I'm just assuming arguendo that Andromeda really is toxic. I don't have any stake in the truth of that proposition, but if that's where people want the thread to go, I'll play. As for Shepard and crew, I didn't say I wanted them back. Although Matriarch Liara can come back, as long as she's curdled into someone like Kreia. Maybe Grunt too. I'm just posing questions. If there is going to be a plan here, then doesn't it behoove everyone to consider all the angles and decide in their own hearts how they actually feel about such retcons possibly being used. Nothing is impossible... whether, ultimately, people will find getting what they've been asking for palatable depends on a lot of minute factors... and my impression is that opinions here are as diverse as ever.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2019 0:22:36 GMT
What use would t'soni serve in a game that takes place x numbers of years after the events of ME3? What use would Shepard serve in a game that takes place x numbers of centuries after the events of ME3? He/she could have been killed during the Reaper War. If he/she is to be there, he/she would have to be in cryo for all those centuries, so what use wuld be any of his/her experience or knowledge since it would be so out of date anyways. Surely, in several centuries, if it was humans who ultimately were victorious over the Reapers, the position of "the first human spectre" would be merely statue fodder rather than be of any practical value. Weapons and tactics and other tech would have changed over that time. In such a scenario, what do you envision Shepard's role being?
Another poster here posted fairly recently that they didn't want ME2's squad set aside again. I believe he said something like Bioware absolutely positively could not do that again. So, then assuming it's just the ME2 squad people want kept in the story, what rationale would you use for preserving them for X centuries and not any others of Shepard's crew from ME1 or ME3?
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Post by themikefest on Aug 6, 2019 0:54:56 GMT
What use would Shepard serve in a game that takes place x numbers of centuries after the events of ME3? Who has asked for Shepard to show up centuries after the events of ME3?
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 6, 2019 1:21:10 GMT
What use would t'soni serve in a game that takes place x numbers of years after the events of ME3? Besides continuity and fun? I get that you don't like her, but surely by now you've realized that's a minority view. I think an aged, cynical Liara would be a fun character. Someone's got to handle the mentor/exposition role in the early game. I'm on the fence about Grunt. Depends on what, if anything, the game is doing with the krogan.
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 6, 2019 1:24:14 GMT
I'm just assuming arguendo that Andromeda really is toxic. I don't have any stake in the truth of that proposition, but if that's where people want the thread to go, I'll play. As for Shepard and crew, I didn't say I wanted them back. Although Matriarch Liara can come back, as long as she's curdled into someone like Kreia. Maybe Grunt too. I'm just posing questions. If there is going to be a plan here, then doesn't it behoove everyone to consider all the angles and decide in their own hearts how they actually feel about such retcons possibly being used. Nothing is impossible... whether, ultimately, people will find getting what they've been asking for palatable depends on a lot of minute factors... and my impression is that opinions here are as diverse as ever.
Gotcha. My firm preference is for absolutely zero retcons. In cases where the trilogy is incoherent or inconsistent, pick whatever version is most convenient for what we're trying to do, and pretend it was always the truth.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2019 1:52:33 GMT
What use would Shepard serve in a game that takes place x numbers of centuries after the events of ME3? Who has asked for Shepard to show up centuries after the events of ME3? You've made it no secret in general that you want Shepard to return in what you call ME4... so, if ME4 is to take place in the Milky Way with a timeline pushed centuries into the future to allow for the advancement of new species (or else the Reapers should have at least tried to harvest them during Shepard's cycle), what role do you foresee Shepard playing or which of these other two options are you adding into the proposal?
1) The game takes place immediately after the end of the Reaper War and does not find new species but only focuses on rebuilding with the current species we have.
2) The game takes place centuries into the future with new species not affected by the Reaper War or its aftereffects and neither Shepard nor any of his/her crew appear
or do you see another suggestions you'd like to put onto the table at this time?
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Post by Phantom on Aug 6, 2019 1:52:44 GMT
What use would t'soni serve in a game that takes place x numbers of years after the events of ME3? Well For a Post Reaper War Liara, I have a story idea that she has a split personality. One of her personalities is good and will help the player uncover the New Reaper Plot that happen after Reaper War. She is very aware of her evil indoctrinated personality. So she set up a boss battle against the player when she couldn't control her dark side. The Player and Liara have meet during ME3. She knows the type of person the Player truly is and the type of character that is a danger to the Reaper and their power. Of course there will be some 1984 type of Mass Effect game and that leads into a Project Darkstar and with that Project Darkstar, series of bloody battles within Dark Space and a boss battle with Harbringer.
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Post by themikefest on Aug 6, 2019 1:57:37 GMT
What use would t'soni serve in a game that takes place x numbers of years after the events of ME3? Besides continuity and fun? I get that you don't like her, but surely by now you've realized that's a minority view. I think an aged, cynical Liara would be a fun character. Someone's got to handle the mentor/exposition role in the early game. I'm on the fence about Grunt. Depends on what, if anything, the game is doing with the krogan. t'soni, fun? Ok. You want funny with the asari. Can do.
When the main character encounters t'soni, he/she learns about the time the asari helped Shepard. She would tell the person that she cowered like a little chicken when faced against a krogan even though her life was at stake. She'll mention how she was more concerned about the archives on Ilos than chasing down Saren. Then the best part she tells about how she took Shepard's armor, who was dead, to display in her apartment like it was some kind of trophy. She made no attempt to let anyone know that Shepard's body was in the hands of Cerberus. She even thought it would be cool to plaster Shepard's dna in spots throughout her apartment. After the broker was killed, she cried like a little baby. On Mars she found plans to the crucible, but for some reason thought it would be best not to forward a copy to anyone. On the way to Thessia she tells Shepard she can't be callous. And then for some reason she froze when Leng ran towards her that sent her on a flight aboard Kai Leng Airlines.
The main character stands there will a frozen look before he/she falls over laughing. Once recovered, he/she will ask the asari how the **** did Shepard end up having her on his/her ship? The main character pulls up his/her omni tool and shows a book from Shepard written shortly after the reaper war. He/she points out that Shepard at one time regretted not throwing the asari back in the volcano.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by melbella on Aug 6, 2019 1:59:16 GMT
Ugh. It's like deja vu all over again reading the same conversation in a half dozen threads.
No remakes, no retcons. No fucking Liara.
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Post by Phantom on Aug 6, 2019 2:01:16 GMT
Ugh. It's like deja vu all over again reading the same conversation in a half dozen threads. No remakes, no retcons. No fucking Liara. do you want me to make the popcorn and get the drinks?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2019 2:02:10 GMT
I'm just posing questions. If there is going to be a plan here, then doesn't it behoove everyone to consider all the angles and decide in their own hearts how they actually feel about such retcons possibly being used. Nothing is impossible... whether, ultimately, people will find getting what they've been asking for palatable depends on a lot of minute factors... and my impression is that opinions here are as diverse as ever.
Gotcha. My firm preference is for absolutely zero retcons. In cases where the trilogy is incoherent or inconsistent, pick whatever version is most convenient for what we're trying to do, and pretend it was always the truth. In my mind, that's still a retcon though. Only the actual modus operandi of reconciling the old with the new changes. Definition: "a piece of new information that imposes a different interpretation on previously described events, typically used to facilitate a dramatic plot shift or account for an inconsistency." In your wording, it's just plucking which details support the new interpretation and "pretend(ing) it was always the truth." In the case of an interactive game, the "truth" is unavoidably only one interpretation of events out of several presented alternatives. In short, some retcons are probably unavoidable.
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Post by themikefest on Aug 6, 2019 2:06:28 GMT
You've made it no secret in general that you want Shepard to return in what you call ME4... so, if ME4 is to take place in the Milky Way with a timeline pushed centuries into the future to allow for the advancement of new species (or else the Reapers should have at least tried to harvest them during Shepard's cycle), what role do you foresee Shepard playing or which of these other two options are you adding into the proposal? You're right. I don't deny wanting Shepard to return in another game after the events of ME3, but that doesn't mean I want him/her to be in the game if it takes place centuries after ME3. How about linking a post where I asked, or anybody has asked, to have Shepard return centuries after ME3? I've posted this many times before.
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Post by melbella on Aug 6, 2019 2:11:06 GMT
do you want me to make the popcorn and get the drinks? Extra butter, and don't forget the umbrellas.
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Post by Phantom on Aug 6, 2019 2:14:15 GMT
do you want me to make the popcorn and get the drinks? Extra butter, and don't forget the umbrellas. *makes sure that Melbella's popcorn has extra butter and umbrellas in Melbella's drinks*
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