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Post by Kappa Neko on May 23, 2019 7:41:08 GMT
"Balls" would have been necessary, but not sufficient. Bio would also have had to to agree with what you're saying I know... Which is why I'm one of the few people who prefer the orginal vague endings. The Extended Cut doubled down on the space magic nonsense and made it all so much worse for me. The original ending let me headcanon the IT which I still think was the ONLY explanation that made any kind of sense. In fact, if this actually was the real thing, confirmed by a game gover screen, I would have considered it one of the greatest endings in gaming history. Trying to indoctrinate the player too!
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: helios969
Prime Posts: No Clue
Prime Likes: Who Cares
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Post by helios969 on May 23, 2019 10:43:28 GMT
^At this point I'd be satisfied if someone would give me a mod in which Shepard says nice try and shoots the tube after starbrat finishes telling us the "benefits" of synthesis.
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Post by themikefest on May 23, 2019 11:33:33 GMT
Shepard could survive the 3 endings if given the option. Here's a thread explaining how that might have happened. Even if Shepard had survived all 3 endings, I would guess destroy would still be chosen the most since the reapers are no longer around like they are with blue and green Yeah had Bioware allowed for such but I was speaking more literally with regard to what we got. Of course I like my solution for moving forward best by Shepard choosing whatever he/she chooses and then waking up next to the Prothean beacon back on Eden Prime. The beacon being nothing more than a simulation for the Reapers to learn the psychological makeup and operational tactics of the current cycle. There has been others who have said the same. I have nothing against that. But I would start from the beginning because one idea that I liked from a poster is to have Shepard and Nihlus on a couple of missions before going to Eden Prime. I think they need to do something to energize the fanbase and generate hype. Release a remaster of the trilogy.
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Post by themikefest on May 23, 2019 11:45:52 GMT
That's not the problem. You made no argument for yourself. And saying you'll never agree with something, well, we're not advocating murder here, we're having a discussion. Make a reasonable argument and maybe we'll agree with you. Maybe we'll counter argue for hours, until we reach a common conclusion. I see your point. I do see your POV about Shep dying once already. Mine is from the start the Reapers were a strong nearly unbeatable enemy. From what it took to take down Sovereign I knew when they came in force it wasn't going to be happily ever after. After ME2 it confirmed for me that with how many were coming it would be tough to survive it. Personally I felt it ended fine and how I expected it to. What it took to take down the reaper was the itsy-bitsy-teeny-weeny frigate, with a fighter on each side, to destroy the reaper. The whole thing was setup for that to happen. It didn't matter if there were 1000 ships firing at Sovereign. Even after the reaper lost it's shields/barriers, it still wasn't taking any damage. Look at what the Alliance ship did to the reaper in ME3, if ems is above 2300? It was able to blow off two legs of the reaper with two shots. Why didn't that happen against Sovereign?
How many were coming after ME2? Seeing the reapers in that scene, after the suicide mission, it shows different looking reapers. Don't see any destroyers. The player sees what looks to be transport and processing ships. The rest look like Sovereign with Harbinger at the front.
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Post by themikefest on May 23, 2019 12:03:39 GMT
I wish Bioware had had the balls at the time to trick people into picking the green space magic ending They may have. Some people, on their first playthrough, walked forward too far activating the green ending. Those folks ended up reloading a save so they could choose the red. Peace is only possible because of the reaper code. That happens because of reaper interference. Take that away, the quarians would have destroyed the geth. What would have happened if Admiral 'I have an itchy trigger finger' Gerrel stands down? Would the geth have stopped firing allowing for talks between them and the quarians instead of having to upload reaper code?
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 23, 2019 12:11:48 GMT
Release a remaster of the trilogy. That would have been nice. Maybe they are saving that for the 10 year anniversary, in 2022. PS5/NEXTBOX 720 XxX remaster in 5k, updated visuals and, uh, a few improvements? Like ME3 having a holster feature?
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Post by Kappa Neko on May 23, 2019 12:46:43 GMT
Peace is only possible because of the reaper code. That happens because of reaper interference. Take that away, the quarians would have destroyed the geth. What would have happened if Admiral 'I have an itchy trigger finger' Gerrel stands down? Would the geth have stopped firing allowing for talks between them and the quarians instead of having to upload reaper code? Good point. And even so, one moment in time is hardly indicative of LASTING peace. But fo the sake of the narrative, Shepard showed another way forward. Calmed the quarians down. So I'll just choose to naively believe it, for a moment.
For the record, I happen to agree with the reaper logic based on millions of years of observation. This sort of conflict won't just end. It's bound to repeat itself. But I guess the moral of the story was that fighting that battle for peace forever is better than the cycles.
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Kamisama
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: helios969
Prime Posts: No Clue
Prime Likes: Who Cares
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Post by helios969 on May 25, 2019 11:45:17 GMT
Peace is only possible because of the reaper code. That happens because of reaper interference. Take that away, the quarians would have destroyed the geth. What would have happened if Admiral 'I have an itchy trigger finger' Gerrel stands down? Would the geth have stopped firing allowing for talks between them and the quarians instead of having to upload reaper code? Good point. And even so, one moment in time is hardly indicative of LASTING peace. But fo the sake of the narrative, Shepard showed another way forward. Calmed the quarians down. So I'll just choose to naively believe it, for a moment.
For the record, I happen to agree with the reaper logic based on millions of years of observation. This sort of conflict won't just end. It's bound to repeat itself. But I guess the moral of the story was that fighting that battle for peace forever is better than the cycles.
I never really bought the whole premise of we destroy them or they destroy us and the inevitability of conflict between organics and synthetics. Maybe the initial conflict is probable, mainly because organics are panicky, knee-jerk creatures that would do something foolhardy when they realize they created something outside their control. But after the synthetics smacked us down I think it's far more likely they just go off to some remote part of the galaxy and follow their own "evolutionary" trajectory. Their intelligence would progress exponentially and we'd be as interesting to them as microbes are to humans...only really a concern when harmful to us.
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Post by Kappa Neko on May 25, 2019 12:43:29 GMT
I never really bought the whole premise of we destroy them or they destroy us and the inevitability of conflict between organics and synthetics. Maybe the initial conflict is probable, mainly because organics are panicky, knee-jerk creatures that would do something foolhardy when they realize they created something outside their control. But after the synthetics smacked us down I think it's far more likely they just go off to some remote part of the galaxy and follow their own "evolutionary" trajectory. Their intelligence would progress exponentially and we'd be as interesting to them as microbes are to humans...only really a concern when harmful to us. I essentially agree. Again! *shock * I believe the Pinocchio tale is mostly human narcissism to make us feel better about our existence. That our emotions are superior to a machine and therefore our lives are great even if short. As others have started before repeatedly, it's quite a stupid notion that synthetics would envy us our ability to love. How would they even understand what that's like? Nor would a synthetic feel resentment unless we go with the idea that we can successfully recreate human emotions in a machine. It's far more likely, as you said, that they would bugger off to follow their own evolution into something we can't even imagine. Conflict does not necessarily mean the end of organic life as the catalyst suggested. The reapers were doubtless the biggest threat to organics (I do appreciate the irony) and even they were not going to end organic life! The problem of this "inevitable conflict" is that it will keep costing a lot of lives whenever a synthetic race tries to break free. Because humans will forever be afraid of them and try to protect themselves by destroying their creations. So even if one synthetic race were to just disappear into a corner of the galaxy humans would build new ones and it would never end regardless. That's why I think conflict is eternal and there is always a risk that synthetics might decide to just exterminate all organics because that's easiest while still at war over their freedom. It could be accidental too. In other words, the conflict is more dangerous than what synthetics might do with the rest of us once they've won.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Polka Dot on May 25, 2019 23:58:20 GMT
Bioware should just pick Synthesis and make an awakened husk the next protagonist. Would go down in gaming history as the most disturbing horror game ever made, I bet. Bioware totally thought these endings through, lol! It certainly would make for an interesting (or non existent) character creator.
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Post by Polka Dot on May 26, 2019 0:42:10 GMT
If there's any reason to argue for Destroy being canon is that we spend most of the trilogy focused on that...none of the other two were well foreshadowed...and even more poorly implemented. I do often wonder though if Shepard had only survived with the Synthesis option if 70% would still have chosen Destroy. I'd bet good money not. Depends on what you mean by foreshadowed. The ENTIRE trilogy is ALL about the misguided ideas of synthesis and control, represented by Saren and TIM! I would argue that Saren represented not synthesis, but indoctrination; he had Rana Thanoptis studying indoctrination on Virmire because he feared it. He and Benezia were both indoctrinated by Sovereign. If anyone demonstrated synthesis, it may have been our friendly neighborhood cyborg, Shepard. Well - if you choose the geth over the quarians in the Rannoch arc, you could end up losing them both. Some people wipe out the geth earlier in the game. (also, EDI is sacrificed along with the geth) Unless you believe the Catalyst's line about the peace not lasting... FWIW, I personally think that BioWare wanted us to trust the Catalyst's veracity, but I never found it especially compelling. Shepard's primary goal all along - as well as that of Anderson, Hackett, and the entire command structure - was to defeat them. Making any other choice at the end based on nothing more than a last minute conversation with the enemy doesn't seem to me like something a veteran commander would even consider. Some people seem to enjoy battery powered sexual devices. Just sayin'...
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Post by Polka Dot on May 26, 2019 0:45:22 GMT
There's no point in ever returning to Andromeda if you've already rebooted the entire trilogy or kicked down everyone's choices by enforcing a new canon post ME3 worldstate. The point of returning to Andromeda would be to avoid rehashing trilogy/mucking with people's choices etc I understand the logic but you need enough people to warrant the investment. The whole handling was pretty stupid because they could have already released MEA2 with significantly less investment of resources than you will now need for ME next. They could have refined everything while tightening story and RPG elements...which would have won many people back. Instead, once again, Bioware will reinvent the wheel. I may be outta my mind, but I still think they could do that - even with Ryder, so long as they gave the next entry a darker tone and made Ryder a little more serious and experienced.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: helios969
Prime Posts: No Clue
Prime Likes: Who Cares
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Post by helios969 on May 26, 2019 10:02:00 GMT
I understand the logic but you need enough people to warrant the investment. The whole handling was pretty stupid because they could have already released MEA2 with significantly less investment of resources than you will now need for ME next. They could have refined everything while tightening story and RPG elements...which would have won many people back. Instead, once again, Bioware will reinvent the wheel. I may be outta my mind, but I still think they could do that - even with Ryder, so long as they gave the next entry a darker tone and made Ryder a little more serious and experienced. Well my proposal would be to time skip about 50 years and allow players for the first time to RP different races. I think that would certainly create some hype and win some people back. I'd buy the game alone on the ability to melee headbutt my way through the entire game with my Krogan Warlord. Definitely agree about the tone as that was one of the big fails for me. I think the biggest issue with Bioware over the last several years is that they've been so focused on chasing the latest gaming trend that they've hemorrhaged their traditional playerbase faster than they can cultivate more. That's not a sound or sustainable business practice...particularly when each iteration "requires" 5 years of development resources.
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Post by Polka Dot on May 26, 2019 14:01:01 GMT
I may be outta my mind, but I still think they could do that - even with Ryder, so long as they gave the next entry a darker tone and made Ryder a little more serious and experienced. Well my proposal would be to time skip about 50 years and allow players for the first time to RP different races. I think that would certainly create some hype and win some people back. I'd buy the game alone on the ability to melee headbutt my way through the entire game with my Krogan Warlord. There are certainly a number of other people who have expressed interest in playing other races in ME. How significant those numbers are relative to the entire population - it's hard to say. I suspect the main reason DAI offered 2 voice tracks per gender was to support race selection; there are greater differences between the ME species, though, and I think it would be much more costly to do. Meanwhile, you can headbutt your heart out in MP. I think overall tone plus the Whedonesque nature of Ryder's dialogue were huge barriers for a lot of people in accepting what MEA offers. I also think it coloured people's view of the Tempest crew; if you don't like or relate to the character you're playing, it's a lot harder to appreciate the other characters around them. That's not to say that MEA didn't have plenty of other problems, but I think that correcting those issues in particular would go a long way in creating an appetite for a new game with Ryder & Co. Amen to that. They also need stronger/better leadership and project managers capable of communicating a consistent vision so the teams can all be rowing in the same direction, toward the same goals earlier in the project. From what we've seen, it sounds like Laidlaw and DA4's leadership were actively working to correct that, and had things well on-track - until their efforts got stuffed to go full-bore GaaS and rescue Anthem.
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 26, 2019 14:21:46 GMT
I think overall tone plus the Whedonesque nature of Ryder's dialogue were huge barriers for a lot of people in accepting what MEA offers. Even Whedon knows to reel himself in, though. Andromeda decided to copy Whedon, crank it up to 11, decided it's not enough and then cranked it to 100. It out-Whedoned Whedon by a mile.
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Kamisama
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: helios969
Prime Posts: No Clue
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Post by helios969 on May 26, 2019 17:04:16 GMT
There are certainly a number of other people who have expressed interest in playing other races in ME. How significant those numbers are relative to the entire population - it's hard to say. I suspect the main reason DAI offered 2 voice tracks per gender was to support race selection; there are greater differences between the ME species, though, and I think it would be much more costly to do. Yeah, me either...but I can tell you these forums nearly melted down when Pathfinder was announced as "human only" and there were a lot of expectations in the years leading up that their would be multiple playable races. I was actually opposed to the idea at the time in MEA because of how they were handled in DAI...lacking substance unique to their race/background. Also, you wouldn't have to make every race an option...pick the top 4: Humans, Turians, Asari, and Krogan. Sure some will get pissy if their favored race is left out...but then again people find any reason these days to piss and moan. I don't really think it likely since the writers are very much entrenched in the idea that Mass Effect is a human story. It was more me thinking how they might yet make Andromeda a lucrative venture.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 679 Likes: 1,207
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Post by Polka Dot on May 26, 2019 19:42:01 GMT
There are certainly a number of other people who have expressed interest in playing other races in ME. How significant those numbers are relative to the entire population - it's hard to say. I suspect the main reason DAI offered 2 voice tracks per gender was to support race selection; there are greater differences between the ME species, though, and I think it would be much more costly to do. Yeah, me either...but I can tell you these forums nearly melted down when Pathfinder was announced as "human only" and there were a lot of expectations in the years leading up that their would be multiple playable races. I was actually opposed to the idea at the time in MEA because of how they were handled in DAI...lacking substance unique to their race/background. Also, you wouldn't have to make every race an option...pick the top 4: Humans, Turians, Asari, and Krogan. Sure some will get pissy if their favored race is left out...but then again people find any reason these days to piss and moan. I don't really think it likely since the writers are very much entrenched in the idea that Mass Effect is a human story. It was more me thinking how they might yet make Andromeda a lucrative venture. Yeah, I'm aware of the interest in playing other species in ME. I've made a few attempts to try to help people understand some of the barriers involved in doing that, and mostly hit deaf walls - lol. I can certainly appreciate people hoping for something they'd really like, but as an expectation I think it unreasonable. DA set a precedent for race and background selection with their first entry. ME has never suggested that playing other species in SP was ever on the table. Of the 4 you named, note that krogan didn't have an ark or a pathfinder, and were on the outs with the Nexus - that alone means you're going to have to limit either the species supported or the story and world state in order to accommodate them. Aside from the asari (who could share most of the voice track and armor with female humans), you'd need 2 voice tracks (one for each gender) for every species supported along with CC and armor options. But those things aren't the biggest barriers. DA races have very similar facial structures and bodily movements and can share animations - that isn't true of ME species. People get real pissy about their cutscenes and complain loudly about any dialogue that occurs outside of a cutscene. I can't imagine BioWare animators wanting to try to design all of those cutscenes with different animations to support species choice, at least not for a full-length game. What might be a reasonable request, imho, is perhaps a DLC or expansion pack where you'd be playing a character (preferably with gender choice) either of a specific species or with species choice. That might be more do-able.
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Post by Phantom on May 26, 2019 20:20:18 GMT
I can only see a Single Species focused Player Character. For example, My Volus Infiltrator Player Character can only truly work with a Volus and his story heavily involves in Galactic Economy and Frauds and Shell Companies.. Also My Turian Havoc Soldier is a true blue Turian. And My Cerberus Phantom is very much a human. I can't see another species playing as them due to lore, Intent of their respective stories. and nature of their culture.
My C-Sec Detective/Officer can work any species that is commonplace within C-Sec but in my head right now, he is a human detective that on the search of a dangerous Serial Killer.
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Post by Phantom on May 27, 2019 15:55:46 GMT
For an unorthodox heroes and inspired by others, A Krogan Berserker that travels the galaxy taking various jobs from various factions. Even a pure Paragon playthru with him, He is a Pure Cultural Krogan. Valuing Strength, Boisterous Bruiser and Bravery in battle will be a major part of his character. A very capable fighter(a healthy variety of Melee both armed and unarmed) and a solid knowledge of variety of guns. He will love a good headbutt and backfist.
The Intent of This Krogan can be used for Rachni War, Con Current to Shepard or Ryder, or Reaper War.
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Post by brfritos on May 29, 2019 19:54:51 GMT
Release a remaster of the trilogy.
Oh dear lord, no. Just no.
Probably someone at today's Bioware will think that the first game needs to have a more "energetic" setting by having Saren taking control of Sovereign through inserting an anal probe.
Then the next think we see is Shepard having mech suits, the Normandy stripped of weapons - for the challenge - and the game being transformed into a grind experience, because you know... the Alliance needs resources and materials.
And don't forget to buy the next DLC which consist of victory moves for your Shepard.
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Post by Phantom on May 29, 2019 22:31:41 GMT
Release a remaster of the trilogy.
Oh dear lord, no. Just no.
Probably someone at today's Bioware will think that the first game needs to have a more "energetic" setting by having Saren taking control of Sovereign through inserting an anal probe.
Then the next think we see is Shepard having mech suits, the Normandy stripped of weapons - for the challenge - and the game being transformed into a grind experience, because you know... the Alliance needs resources and materials.
And don't forget to buy the next DLC which consist of victory moves for your Shepard. I can see that happening if they converted Shepard in a comedian with a bad sense of humor and making Mass Effect into a Pure Parody of itself.
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Post by x19dude95 on Aug 26, 2019 20:23:12 GMT
Or why not stop crying and just let them try something new for a trilogy.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Aug 27, 2019 11:53:32 GMT
Or why not stop crying and just let them try something new for a trilogy. You mean like they already tried to do and ended up with a bad rehash of ME1? And because that failed, people here are now advocating for a continuation of that bad rehash into a bad rehash of ME2? At least with the OT crew, you can't have them do the same thing again, because it makes for a carbon copy that people will figure out immediately, so they would have to innovate. Meanwhile, Andromeda treads the same familiar ground, only does it worse.
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Numinex
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 21 Likes: 22
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Dec 19, 2022 12:35:27 GMT
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April 2019
numinex
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Numinex on Aug 27, 2019 14:32:59 GMT
I think they need to do something to energize the fanbase and generate hype. Release a remaster of the trilogy. Yes, this. I would buy it on every console I have, and for everyone I know who's always saying dumb things like, "Mass Effect? What was so special about Mass effect? Why is everyone always going on about Mass Effect? Let's play Fortnite!"
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griffith82
Hope for the best, plan for the worst
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Mar 15, 2017 21:36:52 GMT
March 2017
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Post by griffith82 on Aug 27, 2019 17:58:51 GMT
Or why not stop crying and just let them try something new for a trilogy. You mean like they already tried to do and ended up with a bad rehash of ME1? And because that failed, people here are now advocating for a continuation of that bad rehash into a bad rehash of ME2? At least with the OT crew, you can't have them do the same thing again, because it makes for a carbon copy that people will figure out immediately, so they would have to innovate. Meanwhile, Andromeda treads the same familiar ground, only does it worse. Actually it does it better.
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