inherit
1033
0
31,254
colfoley
16,574
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
|
Post by colfoley on Sept 3, 2020 10:53:30 GMT
...Which would seem to fit the pattern. So what if 'the Maker' or at least the entity that the Chantry has gotten confused with the Maker ends up being the absolute worse and biggest bad of the series? Granted there are a few issues here like the series would devolve into a 'god off' instead of the much more interesting corruption versus preservation theme we have seen... but it is something I have been thinking about. Don't forget the bit about Andraste singing to get the Maker's attention. Song seems a major theme in this universe. Now this occurred to me in the past few days as well? It started when someone asked whether Flemeth was trying to avoid someone's attention when she was smuggled to the Freemarches in DA2. The question was asked, could there be a third person, other than Solas and Flemeth? Well of course the idol depicts three people. Allegedly the central one is comforting the front one but what about the one round the back? Then I realised that for a world that has a parody of real world monotheistic religion, with spirits (angels) and demons (fallen angels), it is missing one vital element, the Devil, or Lucifer or Satan, call him what you will, the leader of the demons, Prince of Darkness. In Dalish mythology they have one, it is Fen'Harel, once brother to the gods, who betrayed them, except of course he now says that was not done so he could rule the Fade, as the Dalish suggest, but for a variety of reasons. However, whatever his motivations, he does not feature in the Andrastrian religion, unless he really is the Maker she spoke with. In the Chant of Light, the Maker is the Wellspring of Creation, he is the life force and the symbol associated with him is the Sun, the source of light and life. Whereas the Blight is the Darkness, the source of corruption, disease and death. So either the Maker became corrupted at some point, becoming his own antithesis, which would fit the idea put forward by Solas that a demon is merely a spirit forced to do something opposed to its nature, or there is an ultimate big bad out there that is still to be encountered that was the original cause of the Blight in direct opposition to the Maker. Or there is no Maker and no Devil, just the beings we are able to interact with and the opposite of the Wellspring, the source of life in the Fade, is the Void, the source of the Darkness. whilst reading your post I was already considering all three possibilities. I guess we'll have to see since there does not seem to be enough evidence pointing at one or the other...yet. though the Maker becoming his own antithesis is reeeaaallly juicy.
|
|
inherit
Elvis Has Left The Building
7794
0
Oct 31, 2020 23:57:02 GMT
8,068
pessimistpanda
3,804
Apr 18, 2017 15:57:34 GMT
April 2017
pessimistpanda
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by pessimistpanda on Sept 3, 2020 15:10:25 GMT
Then I realised that for a world that has a parody of real world monotheistic religion, with spirits (angels) and demons (fallen angels), it is missing one vital element, the Devil, or Lucifer or Satan, call him what you will, the leader of the demons, Prince of Darkness. Eh... it's reminiscent of ONE particular monotheistic religion. Judaism doesn't have a Devil equivalent, or a Hell equivalent for that matter, and Islam has evil spirits, but I don't know if they have a leader, per se. Bit of a stretch to say that a "Devil" is a vital element of any/all monotheistic religions. Personally, I really hope that the Blight does not turn out to have some greater intelligence directing it. I think that would be extremely lame. The notion really irks me, it's just so... unoriginal, in the context of fantasy especially. Everything "bad" always has an "evil" god or demon or wizard behind it, and all you have to do is kill them and then everything is instantly cured. Yawn. The Blight would be much more interesting if it was just a... thing that exists. A parasitical organism/force native to Thedas (or elsewhere would be fine, I don't really care if it got carried through space on a meteorite or came from a wounded Titan or grew from Alistair's unwashed socks, as long as it's not the progeny of an evil god or ancient wizard), that is simply behaving according to its nature, because it cannot do otherwise. Fantasy (bad fantasy, anyway) is obsessed with reducing all conflict and drama to the actions of a malicious intelligence or will. It's boring.
|
|
inherit
∯ Oh Loredy...
455
0
26,678
gervaise21
10,795
August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
|
Post by gervaise21 on Sept 3, 2020 17:45:18 GMT
Judaism doesn't have a Devil equivalent, Not entirely true, he appears in the Book of Job, but his job is more of a tempter than in outright opposition. Also there is the Book of Enoch which is an ancient Jewish apocryphal work in which there is a lot of stuff about angels and fallen angels. I'm pretty sure Islam also acknowledges the Devil, although he may go by another name. To be honest if their not going to show there is definitely a Maker, then it would follow that there equally could not be a proven Devil figure. In fact I suppose you could say the opposition to the Maker was embodied on the 7 Old Gods. According to the Chant of Light, Maker worship ended the first time round when each of them insisted that if you wanted their help you had to renounce the Maker, not simply worship them. Sadly, we've yet to be able to make contact with an Old God that wasn't crazy with the Blight, so it hasn't been possible to confirm if this is true or not but if the Maker doesn't exist, why would the Old God insist on anyone renouncing him and thus reinforcing the idea of his existence? Anyway, my money would be on the Blight coming from a corrupted titan anyway, the Maker isn't going to do anything about it since he hasn't bothered up to now, and our new hero is probably the one who is going to have to deal with it.
|
|
azarhal
N6
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 7,961 Likes: 21,977
inherit
1519
0
21,977
azarhal
7,961
Sept 9, 2016 12:15:16 GMT
September 2016
azarhal
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
|
Post by azarhal on Sept 3, 2020 18:16:15 GMT
Sadly, we've yet to be able to make contact with an Old God that wasn't crazy with the Blight, A Nug King equivalent coming to DA4? If we find one before the Darkspawns gets there, it shouldn't be blighted according to the lore...
|
|
inherit
Elvis Has Left The Building
7794
0
Oct 31, 2020 23:57:02 GMT
8,068
pessimistpanda
3,804
Apr 18, 2017 15:57:34 GMT
April 2017
pessimistpanda
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by pessimistpanda on Sept 3, 2020 22:45:48 GMT
Sadly, we've yet to be able to make contact with an Old God that wasn't crazy with the Blight, A Nug King equivalent coming to DA4? If we find one before the Darkspawns gets there, it shouldn't be blighted according to the lore... The lore could be wrong, though. And the old gods already being tainted would explain how Darkspawn are able to find them (through the 'song' of the taint). It would also explain why the Architect wasn't able to make Urthemiel an "intelligent" Archdemon. It was already intelligent.
|
|
inherit
1033
0
31,254
colfoley
16,574
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
|
Post by colfoley on Sept 3, 2020 23:12:41 GMT
Then I realised that for a world that has a parody of real world monotheistic religion, with spirits (angels) and demons (fallen angels), it is missing one vital element, the Devil, or Lucifer or Satan, call him what you will, the leader of the demons, Prince of Darkness. Eh... it's reminiscent of ONE particular monotheistic religion. Judaism doesn't have a Devil equivalent, or a Hell equivalent for that matter, and Islam has evil spirits, but I don't know if they have a leader, per se. Bit of a stretch to say that a "Devil" is a vital element of any/all monotheistic religions. Personally, I really hope that the Blight does not turn out to have some greater intelligence directing it. I think that would be extremely lame. The notion really irks me, it's just so... unoriginal, in the context of fantasy especially. Everything "bad" always has an "evil" god or demon or wizard behind it, and all you have to do is kill them and then everything is instantly cured. Yawn. The Blight would be much more interesting if it was just a... thing that exists. A parasitical organism/force native to Thedas (or elsewhere would be fine, I don't really care if it got carried through space on a meteorite or came from a wounded Titan or grew from Alistair's unwashed socks, as long as it's not the progeny of an evil god or ancient wizard), that is simply behaving according to its nature, because it cannot do otherwise. Fantasy (bad fantasy, anyway) is obsessed with reducing all conflict and drama to the actions of a malicious intelligence or will. It's boring. Yeah, Imean if this ends up being the case then it will all depend on the execution because you are right this might not be ideal and even I have my doubts on it...however based on what we have seen there does seem to be set up in universe for this sort of thing and in the writing. However your post did remind me a couple of points I wanted to cover in my first post, but forgot. Basically I could see the 'Blight Intelligence' playing out in three different ways: The Blight has an intelligence behind it: It has some kind of all evil all powerful force (the 'Maker', an Evanuris, a corrupted original Titan) that is out there and seeks to free itself (since that is another theory that has been discussed) from its prison and wreak havoc upon the world or at the least its own agenda. The Blight itself is intelligent: The Blight just...is... and it seaks to corrupt those around it and eventually get into more powerful and corrupt more powerful beings to bring doom upon the world. Or the Blight is not 'intelligent' at all: It could be just like a virus that only infects things by its nature and the 'Blights' are entirely coincedental, or it could just have enough of a will of its own to spread...but afterall your 'base level' Darkspawn does not have any intelligence of its own without corrupting another sentient life form. And the intelligence and the power of that life form seems to be directly proportional to how much control and intelligence it can bequeth to others. Ergo a Ghoul is not going to start a blight on its own...a powerful Magister, Archdemon, will...a corrupted Titan is something to REALLY be concerned about. Of course this also plays all into the origins of the Blight and, also, good job on the Judaism/ Islam contribution.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
11466
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2020 0:15:22 GMT
Judaism doesn't have a Devil equivalent, Not entirely true, he appears in the Book of Job, but his job is more of a tempter than in outright opposition. Also there is the Book of Enoch which is an ancient Jewish apocryphal work in which there is a lot of stuff about angels and fallen angels. I'm pretty sure Islam also acknowledges the Devil, although he may go by another name. To be honest if their not going to show there is definitely a Maker, then it would follow that there equally could not be a proven Devil figure. In fact I suppose you could say the opposition to the Maker was embodied on the 7 Old Gods. According to the Chant of Light, Maker worship ended the first time round when each of them insisted that if you wanted their help you had to renounce the Maker, not simply worship them. Sadly, we've yet to be able to make contact with an Old God that wasn't crazy with the Blight, so it hasn't been possible to confirm if this is true or not but if the Maker doesn't exist, why would the Old God insist on anyone renouncing him and thus reinforcing the idea of his existence? Anyway, my money would be on the Blight coming from a corrupted titan anyway, the Maker isn't going to do anything about it since he hasn't bothered up to now, and our new hero is probably the one who is going to have to deal with it. Why would it follow that there could not be an evil deity/Devil figure, from the fact that they're not going to reveal/confirm the existence of the Maker? As pessimistpanda already pointed out, these two things are not inherently/necessarily dependent upon one another, its at least logically and theologically possible for there to be a Maker/theistic God but no Devil and visa versa (monotheistic religions with only an evil deity are known as "dystheistic"). The only way this would follow is if some sort of dualistic montheistic framework (like that of Christianity) has already been established or presupposed... but I'm aware of nothing in any DA games or lore that would suggest that. I imagine that its quite unlikely there would be any such evil deity, especially in the context of the DA universe and their apparent commitment to neither confirming nor denying the existence of the Maker...but strictly impossible? Not sure about that. But I'm with you on corrupted Titans being the source of the Blight: there's some solid theorycrafting on Reddit that has this as one of the central points, and it just fits together (both internally and with the in-game/lore evidence) too well: we know the Evanuris mined the bodies of defeated Titans for lyrium and "something else", and the Trespasser murals strongly suggest that the "something else" was the hearts of the Titans which were then used to create the focus orbs of the Evanuris. And as the theory goes, removing the Titan's hearts "sundered" them (from the Dwarves, and the Dwarves from the "hivemend" or collective consciousness that allowed Dwarfs to dream/use magic), leading to the runaway corruption -> creation of red lyrium, the true source of the Blight. The sundered/corrupted Titans were then sealed away in the Black City (explaining Corpyheus/the Magisters Sidereal "discovering the darkness" rather than causing/creating it). Obviously still extremely speculative, and probably incorrect to some degree, but that's where I'm putting my money as things presently stand.
|
|
inherit
1033
0
31,254
colfoley
16,574
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
|
Post by colfoley on Sept 4, 2020 1:16:13 GMT
Not entirely true, he appears in the Book of Job, but his job is more of a tempter than in outright opposition. Also there is the Book of Enoch which is an ancient Jewish apocryphal work in which there is a lot of stuff about angels and fallen angels. I'm pretty sure Islam also acknowledges the Devil, although he may go by another name. To be honest if their not going to show there is definitely a Maker, then it would follow that there equally could not be a proven Devil figure. In fact I suppose you could say the opposition to the Maker was embodied on the 7 Old Gods. According to the Chant of Light, Maker worship ended the first time round when each of them insisted that if you wanted their help you had to renounce the Maker, not simply worship them. Sadly, we've yet to be able to make contact with an Old God that wasn't crazy with the Blight, so it hasn't been possible to confirm if this is true or not but if the Maker doesn't exist, why would the Old God insist on anyone renouncing him and thus reinforcing the idea of his existence? Anyway, my money would be on the Blight coming from a corrupted titan anyway, the Maker isn't going to do anything about it since he hasn't bothered up to now, and our new hero is probably the one who is going to have to deal with it. Why would it follow that there could not be an evil deity/Devil figure, from the fact that they're not going to reveal/confirm the existence of the Maker? As pessimistpanda already pointed out, these two things are not inherently/necessarily dependent upon one another, its at least logically and theologically possible for there to be a Maker/theistic God but no Devil and visa versa (monotheistic religions with only an evil deity are known as "dystheistic"). The only way this would follow is if some sort of dualistic montheistic framework (like that of Christianity) has already been established or presupposed... but I'm aware of nothing in any DA games or lore that would suggest that. I imagine that its quite unlikely there would be any such evil deity, especially in the context of the DA universe and their apparent commitment to neither confirming nor denying the existence of the Maker...but strictly impossible? Not sure about that. But I'm with you on corrupted Titans being the source of the Blight: there's some solid theorycrafting on Reddit that has this as one of the central points, and it just fits together (both internally and with the in-game/lore evidence) too well: we know the Evanuris mined the bodies of defeated Titans for lyrium and "something else", and the Trespasser murals strongly suggest that the "something else" was the hearts of the Titans which were then used to create the focus orbs of the Evanuris. And as the theory goes, removing the Titan's hearts "sundered" them (from the Dwarves, and the Dwarves from the "hivemend" or collective consciousness that allowed Dwarfs to dream/use magic), leading to the runaway corruption -> creation of red lyrium, the true source of the Blight. The sundered/corrupted Titans were then sealed away in the Black City (explaining Corpyheus/the Magisters Sidereal "discovering the darkness" rather than causing/creating it). Obviously still extremely speculative, and probably incorrect to some degree, but that's where I'm putting my money as things presently stand. For the purposes of my current theorythis does bring up a few questions: Is the Blighted Titan still awake/alive? Is it imprisoned somewhere? Is it trying to direct, even in the manner of 'dreams' and 'singing' the efforts of the darkspawn/ blighted creatures in an effort to 'free' itself? Or is it dead and the Blight is going around as an aimless, directionless, legacy of that war?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
11466
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2020 1:32:47 GMT
Why would it follow that there could not be an evil deity/Devil figure, from the fact that they're not going to reveal/confirm the existence of the Maker? As pessimistpanda already pointed out, these two things are not inherently/necessarily dependent upon one another, its at least logically and theologically possible for there to be a Maker/theistic God but no Devil and visa versa (monotheistic religions with only an evil deity are known as "dystheistic"). The only way this would follow is if some sort of dualistic montheistic framework (like that of Christianity) has already been established or presupposed... but I'm aware of nothing in any DA games or lore that would suggest that. I imagine that its quite unlikely there would be any such evil deity, especially in the context of the DA universe and their apparent commitment to neither confirming nor denying the existence of the Maker...but strictly impossible? Not sure about that. But I'm with you on corrupted Titans being the source of the Blight: there's some solid theorycrafting on Reddit that has this as one of the central points, and it just fits together (both internally and with the in-game/lore evidence) too well: we know the Evanuris mined the bodies of defeated Titans for lyrium and "something else", and the Trespasser murals strongly suggest that the "something else" was the hearts of the Titans which were then used to create the focus orbs of the Evanuris. And as the theory goes, removing the Titan's hearts "sundered" them (from the Dwarves, and the Dwarves from the "hivemend" or collective consciousness that allowed Dwarfs to dream/use magic), leading to the runaway corruption -> creation of red lyrium, the true source of the Blight. The sundered/corrupted Titans were then sealed away in the Black City (explaining Corpyheus/the Magisters Sidereal "discovering the darkness" rather than causing/creating it). Obviously still extremely speculative, and probably incorrect to some degree, but that's where I'm putting my money as things presently stand. For the purposes of my current theorythis does bring up a few questions: Is the Blighted Titan still awake/alive? Is it imprisoned somewhere? Is it trying to direct, even in the manner of 'dreams' and 'singing' the efforts of the darkspawn/ blighted creatures in an effort to 'free' itself? Or is it dead and the Blight is going around as an aimless, directionless, legacy of that war? At least the way the theory usually goes (on my understanding at any rate), the sundered Titan(s) aren't dead, but is locked away in the Black City (which explains the Magisters Sidereal "discovering the darkness" and becoming Blighted: they didn't cause the Blight, but came into contact and therefore were infected with it when they entered the Black City), and its "song" has also been "sundered" into the one the Dwarves hear via the Stone vs. the song the Darkspawn hear. The Old God dragons are, whether voluntarily or not, acting as locks or seals on the gates to the Black City, due to dragons documented resistance/immunity to the Blight (which also explains the reaction from Solas to the Grey Wardens plan to pre-emptively kill the remaining Old Gods: this would not only fail to prevent future Blights, but release the cause/origin of the Blight itself directly upon Thedas and cause a Blight of unprecedented scope/severity).. but the seals are imperfect, and so the Blight is "leaking" through, as it were (which helps account for the presence of red lyrium in Thedas). Whether the Titan is consciously directing the Darkspawn or whether its a more passive effect seems to be a matter of contention/controversy, but whether deliberate or not the sundered version of its song is heard by Darkspawns and helps drive/lead them to the Old God prisons (as the physical lock or seal on the prison since the prison itself is in the Fade, the sundered song of the Titans seems to be emanating from the Old Gods themselves, thus allowing the Darkspawn to locate them that way).
|
|
telanadas
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 317 Likes: 619
inherit
11510
0
619
telanadas
317
May 2020
mistberry
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by telanadas on Sept 4, 2020 4:31:44 GMT
but the seals are imperfect, and so the Blight is "leaking" through, as it were (which helps account for the presence of red lyrium in Thedas). hmm the presence of red lyrium nodes is only seen after the breach though. If the seals were weakening surely red lyrium would have appeared much earlier at a more gradual pace rather than the sudden onslaught we saw. Solas suggests magic from the orb may have corrupted the lyrium underground so it may be that the accelerated red lyrium growth was a byproduct of Corypheus' ritual. I agree with the idea that the Black City is a corrupted titan though. The darkspawn being agents of the titans is interesting to think about but there are things about it I question... like how would titans know the ins and outs of using blood magic to control the darkspawn? What goal would it serve to taint the entire world when the titans were 'afraid' of the elves making bodies from the earth? The titan may be corrupted but I don't think titans inherently want 'power' as we understand it, so the end-goal seems unaligned. If anything I'd think the titans would want to be rid of the taint, not spread it even further, corrupted or not. I could see the evanuris trying to hijack the titan's hive mind though for their own benefit. Remember the backmasked audio from the well of sorrows? 'Mythal speaks the calling' It might be meaningless but it could also be...something. A crazy theory I have is that the evanuris used Mythal as a sacrifice within Arlathan to 'unlock the ultimate power' (like how Corypheus tried using Divine Justinia). This is how Arlathan became ground zero for the blight and what we see with the green vines enveloping a sphere of fire (like what is depicted in the idol). Some of the evanuris may already have been dabbling in blight magic and Solas says Corypheus' use of blight magic doubles his power. Maybe they tried to triple their power because the bigger the sacrifice, the bigger the payoff.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
11466
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2020 5:47:07 GMT
but the seals are imperfect, and so the Blight is "leaking" through, as it were (which helps account for the presence of red lyrium in Thedas). hmm the presence of red lyrium nodes is only seen after the breach though. If the seals were weakening surely red lyrium would have appeared much earlier at a more gradual pace rather than the sudden onslaught we saw. Solas suggests magic from the orb may have corrupted the lyrium underground so it may be that the accelerated red lyrium growth was a byproduct of Corypheus' ritual. I agree with the idea that the Black City is a corrupted titan though. The darkspawn being agents of the titans is interesting to think about but there are things about it I question... like how would titans know the ins and outs of using blood magic to control the darkspawn? What goal would it serve to taint the entire world when the titans were 'afraid' of the elves making bodies from the earth? The titan may be corrupted but I don't think titans inherently want 'power' as we understand it, so the end-goal seems unaligned. If anything I'd think the titans would want to be rid of the taint, not spread it even further, corrupted or not. I could see the evanuris trying to hijack the titan's hive mind though for their own benefit. Remember the backmasked audio from the well of sorrows? 'Mythal speaks the calling' It might be meaningless but it could also be...something. A crazy theory I have is that the evanuris used Mythal as a sacrifice within Arlathan to 'unlock the ultimate power' (like how Corypheus tried using Divine Justinia). This is how Arlathan became ground zero for the blight and what we see with the green vines enveloping a sphere of fire (like what is depicted in the idol). Some of the evanuris may already have been dabbling in blight magic and Solas says Corypheus' use of blight magic doubles his power. Maybe they tried to triple their power because the bigger the sacrifice, the bigger the payoff. Yeah that was actually my bad, misremembering/conflating different things. The idea is that the corruption of the sundered Titans isn't perfectly contained within the Black City, but is slowly leaking out (i.e. in the Fade), which is why it was able to then bleed through the Breach into Thedas despite the fact that the Breach doesn't actually directly access the Black City, the source of this corruption (i.e. where the corrupted Titans are). I'd read it theorized elsewhere that the "seals" or locks constituted by the Old God dragons were potentially leaking, to allow for the possibility that the Old God dragons are sort of re-broadcasting or amplifying the sundered song of the Titans (the part of it that Darkspawn hear) allowing the Darkspawn to find them at the direction of the corrupted Titan. And so I had conflated these two things: as you say, it wouldn't make sense for the red lyrium to be leaking through the seals/Old Gods- it has to come from the Breach. But that's still consistent with the theory that the origin of the Blight is ultimately the corrupted Titans, via the runaway creation of red lyrium as a result of their having been sundered when the Evanuris harvested their hearts to create the focus orbs. As for the motivations of the Titans, I agree that I don't think they're wanting power or even necessarily making plans the way we would ordinarily think of it, it may be less cognitive than that- though we know from e.g. Descent/Valta that they have some sort of wants or goals, they seem to be as much primal forces of nature as cognitive, deliberative agents. So I think the idea may well just be that, as sort of the driving forces behind the physical/geological/etc composition of Thedas, they exist in this sort of natural balance between creation and destruction, life and death, represented by blue lyrium vs. red.. a balance which was thrown askew when the Evanuris "sundered" them: now the drive towards destruction/corruption, represented by red lyrium, is now unchecked, and so just sort of snowballs, and this same drive is communicated to the Darkspawn through the sundered song of the Titan. Anyways there's a whole lot more to all of this and I'm clearly not the best at explaining it myself, so I'll just put a couple links and allow people to read for themselves (propz to "nouvlesse", the redditor who came up with all this stuff- they've clearly done a TON of homework on all this): the (metaphysical?) geography of Thedas and location of the Black City: https://www.reddit.com/r/dragonage/comments/d502nd/spoilers_all_falling_up_the_true_location_of_the/ series on the Trespasser murals/the nature and origin of the Blights: https://www.reddit.com/r/dragonage/comments/9eh6k1/spoilers_all_a_detailed_analysis_of_the/
|
|
inherit
∯ Oh Loredy...
455
0
26,678
gervaise21
10,795
August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
|
Post by gervaise21 on Sept 4, 2020 10:32:03 GMT
The lore could be wrong, though. And the old gods already being tainted would explain how Darkspawn are able to find them (through the 'song' of the taint). That's always been my opinion too. Otherwise it doesn't make sense that Wardens can hear them too. You have to be tainted and then you can hear the song, although that doesn't seem to explain why giving Grey Warden blood to darkspawn stopped them hearing it. It would also explain why the Architect wasn't able to make Urthemiel an "intelligent" Archdemon. It was already intelligent. To be honest, I think he just woke him up. That gave rise to another theory of mine that if the 7 ancient Magisters were 7 high priests of the Old Gods, then each respective Magister had to wake up each god. The Architect lost his memory and so that is why it took him so long to get to Urthemiel.
|
|
telanadas
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 317 Likes: 619
inherit
11510
0
619
telanadas
317
May 2020
mistberry
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by telanadas on Sept 4, 2020 10:51:18 GMT
But that's still consistent with the theory that the origin of the Blight is ultimately the corrupted Titans, via the runaway creation of red lyrium as a result of their having been sundered when the Evanuris harvested their hearts to create the focus orbs. I can definitely see the possibility, and it would explain why so much red lyrium can be seen in the Fade in DAI too because the location was seemingly 'close enough to touch'. Although I remember somewhere saying that lyrium in the fade was different to the lyrium underground in some way. (it may be in DAO and not sure if its even relevant) Those are some good theories though and I can agree with a lot of it. I've always imagined Arlathan was once underground floating within the heart of a titan. The heart and fire symbolism used for Andraste and to describe the golden city makes sense if this were the case. If the titan housing Arlathan became angry or corrupted by whatever the evanuris were doing, maybe it's earthquakes was what caused the city to fall into the sky of the titan and into the void where no light reaches. I've always wondered how the Black City was even quarantined to begin with and maybe it was the titan all along that knew it had to seal it off to protect its children. I go back and forth on whether red lyrium is a natural thing inherent to titans. Maybe Solas doesn't mention the forgotten ones because the profane were them - corrupted spirits trapped by the titan that over time turned into rock wraiths. Also, there is definitely something about the emerald waters. I read The Calling recently and noticed a lot of things with the added hindsight of DAI and Tevinter Nights. In the book, Maric comes across a lake in the deep roads that looks like emerald waters. He even quotes the chant of light, saying it looks like what Andraste described when she met the Maker.
Furthermore, the lake is described to smell incredibly salty and the whole cavern also had a sickly green light to it. Which sounds to me a lot like Ghilan'nain's pools in Horror of Hormak. I theorise the emerald waters is where the titan breaks down its children as part of its own 'circle of life'. Perhaps the lyrium used by Ghilan'nain in the HoH is infused with this 'emerald water'.
|
|
inherit
∯ Oh Loredy...
455
0
26,678
gervaise21
10,795
August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
|
Post by gervaise21 on Sept 4, 2020 11:01:50 GMT
For the purposes of my current theorythis does bring up a few questions: Is the Blighted Titan still awake/alive? Is it imprisoned somewhere? Is it trying to direct, even in the manner of 'dreams' and 'singing' the efforts of the darkspawn/ blighted creatures in an effort to 'free' itself? Or is it dead and the Blight is going around as an aimless, directionless, legacy of that war? My only real answer to this is the concept art with the corrupted beating heart. I think that seems to be pointing in the direction that whether directly responsible for the Blight or not, there is a corrupted Titan somewhere and it is still alive. However, whatever consciousness it has could have been altered too or even effectively sent crazy with the taint, like the arch-demon is, because once free of its tainted body, Kieran seemed fairly coherent. I also wonder if Mythal created a lot of her "cities" underground inside Titans. My first thought on entering the Wellspring in Descent (note that Andraste originally called the Maker, the Wellspring of All), was that it made me think of how elven cities are described as looking. Then this was pretty much confirmed in Trespasser. The pages of this book—memory?—describe an elf approaching a city of glass spires so deeply blue they ache. The city's outskirts are wrapped in lakes of mist, and figures stroll along the pearly, glowing strips as if they walked on solid ground. Groves of trees woven into enormous parks shelter elves in quiet hollows, while other elves walk below a river churning along an invisible shoal in the air.
The pages of this book—memory?—show a solemn group of elves in an ampitheater of living wood, entire trees grown into seats and stairs for the listeners to recline
This seemed such a strange thing to find deep underground, effectively inside a giant being but looking as if the world had been turned inside out. Then there were the other words about the war with the Pillars of the Earth in the Temple of Mythal. " In this place we prepare to hunt the pillars of the earth. Their workers scurry, witless, soulless. This death will be a mercy. We will make the earth blossom with their passing." Now you assume the earth they are talking about is on the surface but what if they mean the earth underground? Was the interior of that Titan how it is meant to be or had it been altered in some way? Was that by the dwarves or the elves? Was it their restructuring of the interior of the titan which eventually corrupted it? I think the titans definitely pre-dated the elves being in Thedas. Some of them reacted when they started using magic to produce constructs on the surface, causing earthquakes which destroyed them, so the elves attacked them and then Mythal built cities inside of them, utilising the lyrium from their bodies. They used eluvians to connect with the rest of the empire. Which is why there was an eluvian in DAO which appeared to be focussed on a dark city, in which something sinister stirred. The Golden City was a Fade reflection of how this underground city once was and perhaps also an annex to it, connected by eluvian. When the underground city became corrupt, so did its counterpart in the Fade. Then the Veil sealed them both off and contained it. The Magisters breaking in broke the seal on both parts, so the Golden City turned black and they were transported to the real city in the Deep Roads. Then the Veil was restored but the damage was done. It is curious that allegedly even the most powerful demons avoid Black City, so may be they didn't wish to be whisked off to the Thedas Black City either. Anyway, the Titans hold the key to all this.
|
|
midnight tea
Twitter Guru
gateway beverage
Posts: 7,093 Likes: 16,583
inherit
gateway beverage
109
0
16,583
midnight tea
7,093
August 2016
midnighttea
|
Post by midnight tea on Sept 14, 2020 21:00:41 GMT
I've mentioned it in other thread and I'm unsure whether it was discussed here:
What if the Red Lyrium Idol has some form of sentience and is subtly influencing events and minds to its advantage?
Basically, it's The One Ring, but in a form of an accursed statue? We DID see it affecting and clouding minds, and doing so virtually immediately after it has been found in DA2. We know Red Lyrium itself has an effect on people, and the statue is either its source or a very potent piece of it.
It would also explain the wild goose chase to secure it - because it influences people in a way that they don't necessarily notice, but can muddle and subtly direct their thoughts and actions in a way that would effectively make them do what it wants to do, or take it where it wants to be taken?
|
|
inherit
4964
0
Jun 17, 2017 17:29:55 GMT
3,700
arvaarad
1,465
Mar 18, 2017 16:32:40 GMT
March 2017
arvaarad
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Jade Empire
|
Post by arvaarad on Sept 14, 2020 21:28:17 GMT
I've mentioned it in other thread and I'm unsure whether it was discussed here: What if the Red Lyrium Idol has some form of sentience and is subtly influencing events and minds to its advantage? Basically, it's The One Ring, but in a form of an accursed statue? We DID see it affecting and clouding minds, and doing so virtually immediately after it has been found in DA2. We know Red Lyrium itself has an effect on people, and the statue is either its source or a very potent piece of it. It would also explain the wild goose chase to secure it - because it influences people in a way that they don't necessarily notice, but can muddle and subtly direct their thoughts and actions in a way that would effectively make them do what it wants to do, or take it where it wants to be taken? I definitely think it’s significant that the story which tracks the idol’s journey includes Solas — again — going out of his way to slam the Grey Wardens. Like, he bashes them even while he’s trying to maintain cover against someone who knows him and has probably heard his Grey Warden rants before. Weekes really wanted to double and triple underline that Solas thinks people using the Blight are in over their heads. While, simultaneously, he’s getting his hands on an idol made of red lyrium. Maybe that suggests it’s something different, like a walkie-talkie for the Calling (giving him control over the Wardens, maybe)? Or he just has enough power to Galadriel his way to victory, regardless of the Blight’s danger. It’s hard to say.
|
|
midnight tea
Twitter Guru
gateway beverage
Posts: 7,093 Likes: 16,583
inherit
gateway beverage
109
0
16,583
midnight tea
7,093
August 2016
midnighttea
|
Post by midnight tea on Sept 14, 2020 21:37:43 GMT
I've mentioned it in other thread and I'm unsure whether it was discussed here: What if the Red Lyrium Idol has some form of sentience and is subtly influencing events and minds to its advantage? Basically, it's The One Ring, but in a form of an accursed statue? We DID see it affecting and clouding minds, and doing so virtually immediately after it has been found in DA2. We know Red Lyrium itself has an effect on people, and the statue is either its source or a very potent piece of it. It would also explain the wild goose chase to secure it - because it influences people in a way that they don't necessarily notice, but can muddle and subtly direct their thoughts and actions in a way that would effectively make them do what it wants to do, or take it where it wants to be taken? I definitely think it’s significant that the story which tracks the idol’s journey includes Solas — again — going out of his way to slam the Grey Wardens. Like, he bashes them even while he’s trying to maintain cover against someone who knows him and has probably heard his Grey Warden rants before. Weekes really wanted to double and triple underline that Solas thinks people using the Blight are in over their heads. While, simultaneously, he’s getting his hands on an idol made of red lyrium. Maybe that suggests it’s something different, like a walkie-talkie for the Calling (giving him control over the Wardens, maybe)? Or he just has enough power to Galadriel his way to victory, regardless of the Blight’s danger. It’s hard to say. The difference between Solas and Grey Wardens is that he probably has more knowledge about the Blight and Red Lyrium and what the world is dealing in his pinky finger than probably the entire Grey Warden order combined all over generations. That doesn't necessarily means that he can't make some sort of mistake in dealing with Red Lyrium Idol, or Blight itself or whatever - but we still don't know what it, the Red Lyrium or the Blight really are, or how are they all related to him, Mythal or the rest of Evanuris... only that he appears to be genuinely scared of it, calls it the real problem, and thinks nobody who uses the Blight like Cory or Grey Wardens are (not really knowing what they're dealing with) is very smart.
|
|
inherit
1033
0
31,254
colfoley
16,574
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
|
Post by colfoley on Sept 14, 2020 22:18:38 GMT
I've mentioned it in other thread and I'm unsure whether it was discussed here: What if the Red Lyrium Idol has some form of sentience and is subtly influencing events and minds to its advantage? Basically, it's The One Ring, but in a form of an accursed statue? We DID see it affecting and clouding minds, and doing so virtually immediately after it has been found in DA2. We know Red Lyrium itself has an effect on people, and the statue is either its source or a very potent piece of it. It would also explain the wild goose chase to secure it - because it influences people in a way that they don't necessarily notice, but can muddle and subtly direct their thoughts and actions in a way that would effectively make them do what it wants to do, or take it where it wants to be taken? I definitely think it’s significant that the story which tracks the idol’s journey includes Solas — again — going out of his way to slam the Grey Wardens. Like, he bashes them even while he’s trying to maintain cover against someone who knows him and has probably heard his Grey Warden rants before. Weekes really wanted to double and triple underline that Solas thinks people using the Blight are in over their heads. While, simultaneously, he’s getting his hands on an idol made of red lyrium. Maybe that suggests it’s something different, like a walkie-talkie for the Calling (giving him control over the Wardens, maybe)? Or he just has enough power to Galadriel his way to victory, regardless of the Blight’s danger. It’s hard to say. I have maintained the the...irony? (always so gunshy about using that word these days) rather is delicious too given he may have to resort to the Blight given how much he loathes it.
|
|
midnight tea
Twitter Guru
gateway beverage
Posts: 7,093 Likes: 16,583
inherit
gateway beverage
109
0
16,583
midnight tea
7,093
August 2016
midnighttea
|
Post by midnight tea on Sept 14, 2020 23:50:41 GMT
I definitely think it’s significant that the story which tracks the idol’s journey includes Solas — again — going out of his way to slam the Grey Wardens. Like, he bashes them even while he’s trying to maintain cover against someone who knows him and has probably heard his Grey Warden rants before. Weekes really wanted to double and triple underline that Solas thinks people using the Blight are in over their heads. While, simultaneously, he’s getting his hands on an idol made of red lyrium. Maybe that suggests it’s something different, like a walkie-talkie for the Calling (giving him control over the Wardens, maybe)? Or he just has enough power to Galadriel his way to victory, regardless of the Blight’s danger. It’s hard to say. I have maintained the the...irony? (always so gunshy about using that word these days) rather is delicious too given he may have to resort to the Blight given how much he loathes it. Resorting to things people hate or fight is kinda a tradition in this universe. After all, Wardens do it too, and in many places our PCs have to use or do things that are ironic in some way, grey, questionable or - at times - not what they're painted as.
|
|
inherit
Scribbles
185
0
30,251
Hanako Ikezawa
22,357
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
|
Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 14, 2020 23:52:04 GMT
I have maintained the the...irony? (always so gunshy about using that word these days) rather is delicious too given he may have to resort to the Blight given how much he loathes it. Resorting to things people hate or fight is kinda a tradition in this universe. After all, Wardens do it too, and in many places our PCs have to use or do things that are ironic in some way, grey, questionable or - at times - not what they're painted as. Like?
|
|
inherit
1033
0
31,254
colfoley
16,574
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
|
Post by colfoley on Sept 15, 2020 0:16:50 GMT
I have maintained the the...irony? (always so gunshy about using that word these days) rather is delicious too given he may have to resort to the Blight given how much he loathes it. Resorting to things people hate or fight is kinda a tradition in this universe. After all, Wardens do it too, and in many places our PCs have to use or do things that are ironic in some way, grey, questionable or - at times - not what they're painted as. what was it Evangeline said? 'A little hypocrisy for the greater good'?
|
|
inherit
11247
0
1,639
Buckeldemon
Now stealin' more kidz.
1,200
July 2019
buckeldemon
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Buckeldemon on Sept 15, 2020 0:31:22 GMT
Resorting to things people hate or fight is kinda a tradition in this universe. After all, Wardens do it too, and in many places our PCs have to use or do things that are ironic in some way, grey, questionable or - at times - not what they're painted as.Like? Well, the Taint (as the Wardens use it), Blood Magic, magic in general, elves, people who don't believe in the Maker...
|
|
inherit
Scribbles
185
0
30,251
Hanako Ikezawa
22,357
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
|
Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 15, 2020 1:51:49 GMT
Well, the Taint (as the Wardens use it), Blood Magic, magic in general, elves, people who don't believe in the Maker... Using the Blight to fight the Blight is ironic, I’ll grant you. I don’t see those others as fitting though.
|
|
telanadas
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 317 Likes: 619
inherit
11510
0
619
telanadas
317
May 2020
mistberry
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by telanadas on Sept 15, 2020 6:21:38 GMT
I've mentioned it in other thread and I'm unsure whether it was discussed here: What if the Red Lyrium Idol has some form of sentience and is subtly influencing events and minds to its advantage? Basically, it's The One Ring, but in a form of an accursed statue? We DID see it affecting and clouding minds, and doing so virtually immediately after it has been found in DA2. We know Red Lyrium itself has an effect on people, and the statue is either its source or a very potent piece of it. It would also explain the wild goose chase to secure it - because it influences people in a way that they don't necessarily notice, but can muddle and subtly direct their thoughts and actions in a way that would effectively make them do what it wants to do, or take it where it wants to be taken? I like the idea of the idol acting as a supernatural entity because it would make the threat that much more creepy and insidious; something you can't really put a face to. If it did have a mind of its own though, what is its end goal and where does it want to go? Considering Solas says 'YOU THREATEN ALL CREATION' when the idol is used in the Mortalitasi's story, I'm still of the idea that using it in some way has the chance to awaken or release an entity sealed by its magic. Then again, if Solas really is now affected by his absorption of Mythal's power and her thirst for vengeance, maybe that is also why he now places such a high importance to it, and why he refers to it as 'my idol'. Maybe the idol isn't Solas' but Mythal's, which is why the dwarves seemed to worship it in the primeval thaig. Perhaps a version of Mythal still exists in the fade (the charred figure/heart in the teaser?) and SoMythal want the idol for themselves so they can use it to restore Mythal to her full power... I'm looking forward to seeing how the writers explain the third figure too. The parallels to Solas/Mythal in the epilogue are uncanny. Is history repeating itself somehow?
|
|
inherit
1033
0
31,254
colfoley
16,574
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
|
Post by colfoley on Sept 15, 2020 6:27:06 GMT
I've mentioned it in other thread and I'm unsure whether it was discussed here: What if the Red Lyrium Idol has some form of sentience and is subtly influencing events and minds to its advantage? Basically, it's The One Ring, but in a form of an accursed statue? We DID see it affecting and clouding minds, and doing so virtually immediately after it has been found in DA2. We know Red Lyrium itself has an effect on people, and the statue is either its source or a very potent piece of it. It would also explain the wild goose chase to secure it - because it influences people in a way that they don't necessarily notice, but can muddle and subtly direct their thoughts and actions in a way that would effectively make them do what it wants to do, or take it where it wants to be taken? I like the idea of the idol acting as a supernatural entity because it would make the threat that much more creepy and insidious; something you can't really put a face to. If it did have a mind of its own though, what is its end goal and where does it want to go? Considering Solas says 'YOU THREATEN ALL CREATION' when the idol is used in the Mortalitasi's story, I'm still of the idea that using it in some way has the chance to awaken or release an entity sealed by its magic. Then again, if Solas really is now affected by his absorption of Mythal's power and her thirst for vengeance, maybe that is also why he now places such a high importance to it, and why he refers to it as 'my idol'. Maybe the idol isn't Solas' but Mythal's, which is why the dwarves seemed to worship it in the primeval thaig. Perhaps a version of Mythal still exists in the fade (the charred figure/heart in the teaser?) and SoMythal want the idol for themselves so they can use it to restore Mythal to her full power... I'm looking forward to seeing how the writers explain the third figure too. The parallels to Solas/Mythal in the epilogue are uncanny. Is history repeating itself somehow? You know for the BTS thread people have been comparing the Blight to Cancer. So if its sentient we have...Sentient Cancer. I do wonder about that myself of what exactly the idol shows. Is it the Inquisitor? Is it the new protagonist for 4? Is it prophecy or has 'all this happened before'? The mind boggles. I do also like the idea that it is Mythal's idol. Maybe that is why Solas needed to absorb her in the first place? Also...damn my mind keeps wondering. So we know Solas hates the blight and yet might be willing to use it (the idol) the achieve his objective. We also know that he loved Mythal and when she was killed that is what caused him to seal the Evanuris away...but now he 'killed' her again. Hmm.
|
|