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Post by pessimistpanda on Nov 29, 2020 12:20:18 GMT
Ever since hearing about the story where Andruil makes herself a suit of armour out of 'void', I've always kind of thought that the reason the Golden City is corrupted/black now is because the Evanuris were using Taint/Void as a weapon/source of magic/enhancer of their existing abilities (and thus had become corrupted), and that after Solas sealed them in there, the infection eventually spread from them to their surroundings, the same way that darkspawn infect people that come in contact with them, and even the land they move through. The City would have appeared golden from the outside, as whatever magic was keeping the Evanuris sealed inside was also containing the Blight. Once it was breached by the Magisters Sidereal(sp?), the Taint would have spread to cover the outside of the Golden City as well.
As for why the Evanuris haven't escaped already (and as for why the Taint hasn't spread to the rest of the Fade), well, there's no known way currently to get into the Black City from any other part of the Fade, so that means there's also no known way out, for either the Evanuris or the Taint. Whatever means the Magisters used to breach Arlathan clearly isn't available now, for whatever reason, or Corypheus would've just done that. And considering the many and varied effects of being exposed to Taint in different ways and forms that we've already seen in the games so far, there's no way of knowing what the Evanuris look like now, or what powers they do or don't possess after stewing in Taint for untold millenia. Perhaps they are so completely corrupted now that they have lost their connection to the Fade and can't influence it. Or perhaps they no longer even remember or resemble what they used to be (just like how the Architect didn't appear to remember ever having been a human in DA: Awakening).
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Post by gervaise21 on Nov 29, 2020 12:53:39 GMT
Or perhaps they no longer even remember or resemble what they used to be (just like how the Architect didn't appear to remember ever having been a human in DA: Awakening). Amnesia could account for some of it. After all there should be other Magisters Sidereal out there that we haven't encountered yet, although that does mean accepting Hessarian's account that all 7 high priests of the Old Gods were involved, which I still doubt. However, I doubt the Evanuris are just wandering around in the Fade oblivious of who they are. Plus when the Veil was breached in DAI, you would think they'd have taken advantage of that to escape, so there has to be something more to their prison that keeps them confined. May be the prison that the wardens built for Corypheus offers a clue. That was constructed so anyone could get in to the outer area but they couldn't get out again and his actual prison was sealed with the blood of an untainted mage. The untainted bit would seem to be important and only the blood of the same person or someone of their bloodline could break it. So a complicated theory is that in addition to the Veil the seal on the Evanuris was the blood of an untainted god (Fen'Harel). Originally the Veil simply shut them in the Eternal City but when they attempted to leave (by eluvian) it led to the Void and trapped them there, sealed with his blood. So the Veil is like the outer part of Corypheus' prison, the Eternal City the inner part and an eluvian the final part. This is why even powerful demons avoid the Black City because they do not wish to become trapped there. It still doesn't explain why the Magisters escaped after going there though. Another possibility is that the Evanuris shed their mortal forms in order to escape. Perhaps all they need to return to the Waking World is for someone to perform the correct ritual, just as Flemeth needed the ritual performed on Sundermount for her to materialise there.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Nov 29, 2020 14:20:25 GMT
Or perhaps they no longer even remember or resemble what they used to be (just like how the Architect didn't appear to remember ever having been a human in DA: Awakening). Amnesia could account for some of it. After all there should be other Magisters Sidereal out there that we haven't encountered yet, although that does mean accepting Hessarian's account that all 7 high priests of the Old Gods were involved, which I still doubt. However, I doubt the Evanuris are just wandering around in the Fade oblivious of who they are. Plus when the Veil was breached in DAI, you would think they'd have taken advantage of that to escape, so there has to be something more to their prison that keeps them confined. May be the prison that the wardens built for Corypheus offers a clue. That was constructed so anyone could get in to the outer area but they couldn't get out again and his actual prison was sealed with the blood of an untainted mage. The untainted bit would seem to be important and only the blood of the same person or someone of their bloodline could break it. So a complicated theory is that in addition to the Veil the seal on the Evanuris was the blood of an untainted god (Fen'Harel). Originally the Veil simply shut them in the Eternal City but when they attempted to leave (by eluvian) it led to the Void and trapped them there, sealed with his blood. So the Veil is like the outer part of Corypheus' prison, the Eternal City the inner part and an eluvian the final part. This is why even powerful demons avoid the Black City because they do not wish to become trapped there. It still doesn't explain why the Magisters escaped after going there though. Another possibility is that the Evanuris shed their mortal forms in order to escape. Perhaps all they need to return to the Waking World is for someone to perform the correct ritual, just as Flemeth needed the ritual performed on Sundermount for her to materialise there. Well, the Evanuris aren't "wandering around in the Fade" in my theory, or else they'd be spreading Taint all over it, which we haven't seen. There is no (known) way to reach the Black City from within the Fade (it is visible from any geographical point in the Fade, but always at a distance, actually travelling to it is impossible), so there's no way for the Evanuris or the Taint to move to other parts of the Fade, even if the city is technically "breached". After all, Corypheus and friends didn't enter the Fade and then walk to the Golden/Black City either, they accessed it directly from the physical plane, through some sort of extremely powerful blood magic. And the Veil breach in DAI didn't give any access into the Black City, so why would there have been be any access out? And if the Evanuris originally entered and exited the Golden/Black City via Eluvians, then it's a fairly simple matter of luring the Evanuris there with lies about a "powerful new weapon", and then have followers placed in the Crossroads to smash (or otherwise render useless) the Eluvians that the Evanuris used to enter Arlathan, leaving them with no way out. It may simply be that the Evanuris lack the knowledge or the capability to undo their imprisonment. After all, sealing them up in the first place required an act of magic that dramatically altered the entire state of the world forever, and we don't know what tools or rituals Solas required to bring that about, but I doubt the other Evanuris would just have those things on hand. And that's assuming they even still remotely resemble the god-wizards they used to be, and haven't congealed together into a mass of throbbing, black, sentient cancer-fungus. I don't see a need to further complicate the process with any additional details, honestly.
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Post by gervaise21 on Nov 29, 2020 17:20:34 GMT
I don't see a need to further complicate the process with any additional details, honestly. The only problem I have with the theory is that why was the Veil even necessary if all they needed to do was be trapped inside the Black City? If it is isolated from the Fade then surely the Veil should have been round the City to contain it and prevent the Evanuris accessing magical power from the Fade, rather than between the Fade and the Waking World. So something doesn't quite add up there. Unless the Veil was to prevent the other faction from escaping from the Abyss/Void that is in the Waking World, beneath the Deep Roads. Anyway it looks as though we shall soon get some answers if the concept art in the book is anything to go by. If the ancient gods really are returning to the world, I suppose it doesn't really matter how they got there apart from perhaps helping to contain them again.
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Post by xerrai on Nov 29, 2020 18:05:04 GMT
[...] Another possibility is that the Evanuris shed their mortal forms in order to escape. Perhaps all they need to return to the Waking World is for someone to perform the correct ritual, just as Flemeth needed the ritual performed on Sundermount for her to materialize there. Well, the Evanuris aren't "wandering around in the Fade" in my theory, or else they'd be spreading Taint all over it, which we haven't seen. There is no (known) way to reach the Black City from within the Fade (it is visible from any geographical point in the Fade, but always at a distance, actually travelling to it is impossible), so there's no way for the Evanuris or the Taint to move to other parts of the Fade, even if the city is technically "breached". [...] I don't see a need to further complicate the process with any additional details, honestly. Soo....slightly off topic-but-not-quite. But now seems like a good time to bring it up. But should any of us be worried if we left a Warden in the Fade in DAI's Here Lies the Abyss? The taint may not have progressed that much in them but they still technically qualify as a blighted creature. Even if they are killed by the Nightmare, are we certain that the taint will not spread? I mean, there's a part of me that thinks the writers never thought that far ahead and our decision didn't matter that much. But there's also a part of me that hopes that they did, and we just have to wait to see the consequences in DA4. It's also a detail that always bothered me.
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Post by colfoley on Nov 29, 2020 19:31:16 GMT
Well, the Evanuris aren't "wandering around in the Fade" in my theory, or else they'd be spreading Taint all over it, which we haven't seen. There is no (known) way to reach the Black City from within the Fade (it is visible from any geographical point in the Fade, but always at a distance, actually travelling to it is impossible), so there's no way for the Evanuris or the Taint to move to other parts of the Fade, even if the city is technically "breached". [...] I don't see a need to further complicate the process with any additional details, honestly. Soo....slightly off topic-but-not-quite. But now seems like a good time to bring it up. But should any of us be worried if we left a Warden in the Fade in DAI's Here Lies the Abyss? The taint may not have progressed that much in them but they still technically qualify as a blighted creature. Even if they are killed by the Nightmare, are we certain that the taint will not spread? I mean, there's a part of me that thinks the writers never thought that far ahead and our decision didn't matter that much. But there's also a part of me that hopes that they did, and we just have to wait to see the consequences in DA4. It's also a detail that always bothered me. well a lot of people have theorized that Flemeth's prophecy in DA 2 referred specifically to leaving Hawk in the Fade, and now this gives us a solid reason. Edit: as far as consequences are concerned it could easily come down to Solas having an easier time with his ritual.
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yogsothoth
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Post by yogsothoth on Nov 29, 2020 23:38:15 GMT
Soo....slightly off topic-but-not-quite. But now seems like a good time to bring it up. But should any of us be worried if we left a Warden in the Fade in DAI's Here Lies the Abyss? The taint may not have progressed that much in them but they still technically qualify as a blighted creature. Even if they are killed by the Nightmare, are we certain that the taint will not spread? I mean, there's a part of me that thinks the writers never thought that far ahead and our decision didn't matter that much. But there's also a part of me that hopes that they did, and we just have to wait to see the consequences in DA4. It's also a detail that always bothered me. I'd be more concerned about Corypheus being given access to another Grey Warden to reform from.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Nov 30, 2020 0:19:42 GMT
I don't see a need to further complicate the process with any additional details, honestly. The only problem I have with the theory is that why was the Veil even necessary if all they needed to do was be trapped inside the Black City? If it is isolated from the Fade then surely the Veil should have been round the City to contain it and prevent the Evanuris accessing magical power from the Fade, rather than between the Fade and the Waking World. So something doesn't quite add up there. Unless the Veil was to prevent the other faction from escaping from the Abyss/Void that is in the Waking World, beneath the Deep Roads. Anyway it looks as though we shall soon get some answers if the concept art in the book is anything to go by. If the ancient gods really are returning to the world, I suppose it doesn't really matter how they got there apart from perhaps helping to contain them again. Well without knowing how the world worked prior to the construction of the Veil, I can't say. But if the ancient elves had flying vehicles and/or the ability to take the forms of winged creatures, which it looks like they did, then leaving the Black City in the physical plane, even if it was high up in the sky, would simply not be an option. Anyone would be able to fly up there and free the Evanuris or spread the Taint at any time. Only in the Fade is it possible for a single geographical point to be equidistant from all others. Possibly the castle was constructed that way deliberately, in order to only be accessible to those with sufficient knowledge/power. And we haven't seen any magic that seals objects or places away in their own... pocket dimensions or what have you. I'm sure Solas would have done that if he could, rather than cut his people off from magic entirely and bring about the end of their entire civilizarion. I have to assume that 1) separating the Fade and the material realm was the only option for dealing with the Evanuris, or 2) that Solas had no comprehension of the consequences of his actions, because there's no good reason to do it otherwise.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Nov 30, 2020 0:26:11 GMT
Well, the Evanuris aren't "wandering around in the Fade" in my theory, or else they'd be spreading Taint all over it, which we haven't seen. There is no (known) way to reach the Black City from within the Fade (it is visible from any geographical point in the Fade, but always at a distance, actually travelling to it is impossible), so there's no way for the Evanuris or the Taint to move to other parts of the Fade, even if the city is technically "breached". [...] I don't see a need to further complicate the process with any additional details, honestly. Soo....slightly off topic-but-not-quite. But now seems like a good time to bring it up. But should any of us be worried if we left a Warden in the Fade in DAI's Here Lies the Abyss? The taint may not have progressed that much in them but they still technically qualify as a blighted creature. Even if they are killed by the Nightmare, are we certain that the taint will not spread? I mean, there's a part of me that thinks the writers never thought that far ahead and our decision didn't matter that much. But there's also a part of me that hopes that they did, and we just have to wait to see the consequences in DA4. It's also a detail that always bothered me. Mmm, if Wardens could spread the Taint so easily as darkspawn do, I think we would have heard about it. People would be catching it from them on the reg. Gotta assume the warden ritual renders it inert in some way.
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Post by Sifr on Nov 30, 2020 12:16:40 GMT
Soo....slightly off topic-but-not-quite. But now seems like a good time to bring it up. But should any of us be worried if we left a Warden in the Fade in DAI's Here Lies the Abyss? The taint may not have progressed that much in them but they still technically qualify as a blighted creature. Even if they are killed by the Nightmare, are we certain that the taint will not spread? I mean, there's a part of me that thinks the writers never thought that far ahead and our decision didn't matter that much. But there's also a part of me that hopes that they did, and we just have to wait to see the consequences in DA4. It's also a detail that always bothered me. I'd be more concerned about Corypheus being given access to another Grey Warden to reform from. I dunno, wasn't the Anchor supposed to be the only thing that prevented the group at Adamant from dying when the Inquisitor pulled everyone into the Fade with them? As the Inquisitor didn't travel into the Fade with Corypheus, being thrown into the Fade in pieces may well have been something that even he couldn't recover from.
But even that aside, the resurrection does seem to rely on proximity to work.
Despite distance sometimes being treated as a relative concept in the Fade, it's stated in Inquisition that Nightmare's domain was very close to the Black City and it did appear much closer in the sky than how we've seen it previously. There was also a codex entry in Origins that talks about mages in the Circle attempting to reach the city in dreams and how dangerous it got the closer they approached, which was how they first encountered Shah Wyrd.
So distance does seem to kinda exist in the Fade and could have left Corypheus "too far away" to resurrect, even if being sent into the Fade didn't immediately kill him?
Mmm, if Wardens could spread the Taint so easily as darkspawn do, I think we would have heard about it. People would be catching it from them on the reg. Gotta assume the warden ritual renders it inert in some way. It seems that Wardens are asymptomatic carriers of the Taint until they reach the Calling, at which point they reach the Ghoul stage and become infectious.
I guess that the early Wardens purposefully designed the Joining ritual with the goal of allowing people to survive infection (which normally results in death or ghoulification), while simultaneously slowing the progression of the taint to a crawl and preventing them from spreading the taint to others.
In that way, it's kinda like a primitive form of attenuated vaccine, albeit one that's only 50% effective and only suppresses the symptoms, rather than providing life-long immunity. That's why people still die during the Joining and why depending on the person's physiology, it can take anywhere for 5-30 years to succumb to the disease.
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Post by gervaise21 on Nov 30, 2020 19:32:06 GMT
Well without knowing how the world worked prior to the construction of the Veil, I can't say. But if the ancient elves had flying vehicles and/or the ability to take the forms of winged creatures, which it looks like they did, then leaving the Black City in the physical plane, even if it was high up in the sky, would simply not be an option. Anyone would be able to fly up there and free the Evanuris or spread the Taint at any time. Only in the Fade is it possible for a single geographical point to be equidistant from all others. Possibly the castle was constructed that way deliberately, in order to only be accessible to those with sufficient knowledge/power. Actually that is a good point. To be honest I'd forgotten about shape-shifting to winged form, which we know people other than the Evanuris could do because of the "sinner" getting into trouble over it and of course the concept art now shows us flying aravels. I'm also not altogether convinced that Corypheus did make it into the Black City in the Fade but rather its counterpart in the physical world, somewhere beneath the Deep Roads, but he merely thought he made it there. Either that or my lobby theory is correct and when he tried stepping through an eluvian to reach the inner sanctum it whisked him back to the material plane.
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Post by gervaise21 on Nov 30, 2020 19:43:22 GMT
I guess that the early Wardens purposefully designed the Joining ritual with the goal of allowing people to survive infection (which normally results in death or ghoulification), while simultaneously slowing the progression of the taint to a crawl and preventing them from spreading the taint to others. I think it was originally designed as a way of defeating the Arch-demon when they realised about its soul jumping ability that prevented anyone from killing it. The fact it could stop people dying from the taint was something of a bonus. Now the Dalish have always had the knowledge of how to slow the taint, if given early enough, which they passed onto the Wardens, except as the Dalish weren't around during the First Blight we must assume it was simply elves that told them about it and this knowledge was passed down to the Dalish as well. I seem to recall that it was suggested that the entire idea about the Joining Ritual may have come from elves, which makes sense considering Flemeth knew about its workings. Since it is suspected that Andruil was the one who first brought back the taint, may be it was the ancient elves who first came up with a way of slowing the disease and that is how the elves who advised the Wardens knew about it. Clearly though they never discovered an actual cure for it, only slowing the onset of full symptoms.
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Post by yogsothoth on Dec 1, 2020 0:10:48 GMT
I dunno, wasn't the Anchor supposed to be the only thing that prevented the group at Adamant from dying when the Inquisitor pulled everyone into the Fade with them? As the Inquisitor didn't travel into the Fade with Corypheus, being thrown into the Fade in pieces may well have been something that even he couldn't recover from. The problem isn't the body, it's the soul. Corypheus came back from being turned into ash, there's nothing to suggest that he couldn't come back from what the Inquisitor did. We're only told that Corypheus and Archdemons will go to the nearest blighted creature, be it Darkspawn (or Grey Warden in the case of Corypheus). There's been no suggested limit to how far it can go, the only limiter is that there must still be at least one Darkspawn or Grey Warden left to go to. This does raise the question of why Corypheus's soul can override a Grey Warden's, but an Archdemon's can't.
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 1, 2020 19:14:38 GMT
The problem isn't the body, it's the soul. Corypheus came back from being turned into ash, there's nothing to suggest that he couldn't come back from what the Inquisitor did. According to WoT2 the reason he wouldn't survive is because he entered the Fade full of doubt and apparently it has been written "that nothing that knows doubt can survive in the Fade". I don't know who is said to have written this and the author of the saying is not given. Still WoT2 also claims that the Fade has been searched by armies of mages in their dreams and none have been able to detect him. Of course, it seems strange, particularly if you took the CoJ path that there are still "armies" of mages that can do this or that they could be trusted to divulge the truth if they did encounter him. So allowing for a degree of hyperbole by the author of the entry in WoT2, which seems likely a Chantry scholar, his physical being was consumed by the Fade. Apparently the new Divine declared: "May his blighted soul find only oblivion, far from the sight of the divine." So apparently it was not automatically assumed his soul perished so it could still be wandering the Fade, or the Void if that is where blighted souls go. Mind you, I never understood why we suddenly thought sending him into the Fade was such a good idea. Surely if Mythal could return from there, so could he. I thought the whole point of finding the Well of Sorrows and using the information there was to give us a means of permanently killing him. According to Morrigan that should have been made possible by killing his dragon but then the Inquisitor came up with an alternative. I must admit I thought we opened a Fade rift inside his body and blew him apart but that was then said not to be the case. Remember it was never clear exactly what happens to an Arch-demon soul when killed by a Warden. In some versions we are given to understand both souls are utterly destroyed but in others that it is merely the bodies that perish and the souls are freed to pass beyond the Veil. Flemeth said the soul of the Old God was snatched from the jaws of darkness. So if she wasn't merely talking poetically about death, it is possible that the soul would have gone to the Void. I suspected the reason Solas was so anxious about killing the final two Old Gods is that it does free their souls to travel elsewhere, likely to join with their counterpart in the Void. This does raise the question of why Corypheus's soul can override a Grey Warden's, but an Archdemon's can't. My theory on this was that he was controlling their mind, so could make them willingly accept the intrusion. Whereas the Arch-demon does not so the Warden resists it and "a soul cannot be forced on the unwilling", according to Flemeth.
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Post by theascendent on Dec 2, 2020 14:27:29 GMT
I wonder what effects the revelation of the existence of someone like Corypheus and Solas will have on Thedas, especially Tevinter. It's one thing to believe about a mythical boogeyman, quite another to see them wandering about and bringing up uncomfortable questions regarding the nature of existence. I think Inquisition, for all its talk about faith and the hope it brings, kind of brushed aside the large implications of the existence of Corypheus and Solas. Obviously not every peasant will give too many thoughts on who/what the Elder One was/who is the Dread Wolf but for the educated and people who know better? Not to mention the true nature of the Evanuris and the nature of existence itself with the revelation of the Veil's creation. Again this information will be restricted on a need to know basis to prevent panic but still, I wonder if we could be dealing with more introspection from our protagonists in the next game, some private moments away from the party where we affirm our own beliefs/question our role. Is Solas in the right? Can we even stop him? Is everything the Chant teaches a lie? Is this world really worth saving? Ethical and philosophical debates might make the game more thought provoking.
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 2, 2020 18:16:42 GMT
I wonder what effects the revelation of the existence of someone like Corypheus and Solas will have on Thedas, especially Tevinter. It's one thing to believe about a mythical boogeyman, quite another to see them wandering about and bringing up uncomfortable questions regarding the nature of existence. I think Inquisition, for all its talk about faith and the hope it brings, kind of brushed aside the large implications of the existence of Corypheus and Solas. I kept saying this but so far as the game is concerned the people in the know seem largely unconcerned about the implications whilst performing a cover up for the masses so not to harm morale. You can raise some of the questions with Mother Giselle and she seems always to find a way to spin it so faith is unshaken, plus the writers never allow you the last word but you have to accept the interpretation. I seem to recall after coming back from the Fade even Hawke seems to think it better not to reveal the truth about the Herald (so far as I can recall), which is an opinion sort of forced on them. As for Tevinter, we don't know how devout people there really are. May be most are like Dorian so like to believe that there is some sort of divine being out there but that is as far as it goes. After all the ruling elite both south and north seem not to feel particularly obliged to follow the moral imperatives of the Chant and in both Tevinter and Orlais they feel their power derives from divine providence, so they are entitled to rule and thus rebellion is not just a challenge to their authority but a sin. I seem to recall the Archon was only disturbed by Corypheus because how it might impact on his status rather than a challenge to his faith. Dorian also maintained that the Altus have always denied they had anything to do with causing the Blight. Whilst he seemed disturbed to discover the southern Chantry version of events might be true, it is entirely possible that the majority of those in Tevinter would ascribe it to a renewed southern Chantry attack on them; in other words discount it as true in much the same way as Mother Giselle did. As for Solas, it is not clear how many people in the wider world do know about him but the hint from the dev update was that those in power are largely ignoring the threat, either because they are too wrapped up in their own problems or because they have discounted him as some sort of deranged southern apostate with delusions of grandeur. Ethical and philosophical debates might make the game more thought provoking. I agree but I'm not sure the writers would actually do them justice or that the majority of players actually care enough to want to slow up the action enough for a genuine debate on the issues. Can we even stop him? That is entirely dependent on whether the writers want to allow this. Is Soloas in the right? Again, this is dependent on whether the writers actually want him to succeed.Is the world really worth saving? Not really the issue so much as "is the world doomed regardless" (I'm thinking of the Blight and red lyrium)Is everything the Chantry teaches a lie? Much has already been disproved but the essential part of the existence of the Maker is apparently never going to be revealed one way or another.
I would add a different question: "Are we ever going to be allowed to follow a different belief system to the Chantry?" Whether that means an alternative form of Andrastrianism or something else entirely. Up to now it has been you either believe in the Chantry's version of the faith, you are agnostic or, in the case of a Dalish elf you are patted on the head by Chantry stalwarts and made to feel you are unreasonable for not incorporating the Maker into your pantheon and then the writers ensure that you belief system is totally undermined and ridiculed by other characters.
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 5, 2020 9:12:13 GMT
So this looks like a two headed dragon. Could the last two Old Gods actually be one? That would feed into my idea of them being the dragon souls of the Evanuris and the last two represent Dirthamen/Falon'Din who instead of twin brothers seem rather to be twinned souls, so one is the reflection of the other. Thus their faithful would see themselves as serving one or the other but in fact in reality they are serving the same entity. Of course in traditional Tevinter iconography the dragon has 3 heads, so may be the ultimate Old God does have 3.
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Post by Fredward on Dec 5, 2020 9:26:33 GMT
So this looks like a two headed dragon. Could the last two Old Gods actually be one? That would feed into my idea of them being the dragon souls of the Evanuris and the last two represent Dirthamen/Falon'Din who instead of twin brothers seem rather to be twinned souls, so one is the reflection of the other. Thus their faithful would see themselves as serving one or the other but in fact in reality they are serving the same entity. Of course in traditional Tevinter iconography the dragon has 3 heads, so may be the ultimate Old God does have 3. Yeah it's definitely a two headed dragon, the way they're posed they'd have to be basically standing on top of each other otherwise. DOUBLE BLIGHT! Here's my post from page 2. So the last two archdemons are Razikale, the dragon of Mystery and Lusacan the dragon of Night. Chances that that coincides with Dirthamen, the Keeper of Secrets and Falon'Din the Friend of the Dead? I always thought the last Blight would be a double whammy (dunno why) and if it's the twins it seems Thematically Appropriate. coughsubtleflexcough
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Post by Sifr on Dec 5, 2020 11:28:04 GMT
We're only told that Corypheus and Archdemons will go to the nearest blighted creature, be it Darkspawn (or Grey Warden in the case of Corypheus). There's been no suggested limit to how far it can go, the only limiter is that there must still be at least one Darkspawn or Grey Warden left to go to. This does raise the question of why Corypheus's soul can override a Grey Warden's, but an Archdemon's can't. Doesn't the imply that there is some degree of distance limitation to resurrection though, as otherwise he wouldn't have been shown to keep Grey Wardens and the Red Lyrium Dragon always closeby to allow him convenient vessels to hop into if he was killed?
I thought that's why taking the Grey Wardens from him at Adamant was such a devastating loss for him, because it limited the amount of potential vessels at his disposal. We know that after Adamant he brought what remained of the enslaved Wardens with him to the Arbor Wilds, so perhaps he was concerned about keeping his Wardens safe and believed they'd be better protected if surrounded by the rest of his forces.
The game also made it seem like taking down the Red Lyrium Dragon was imperative to defeating Corypheus, as not only would it leave him without his biggest source of firepower besides the Orb, but would eliminate the only other nearby tainted creature for him to respawn into.
My suspicion on why Corypheus can take over Wardens but Archdemons can't, is that it has something to do with the drop of Archdemon blood that's often used to prime the Joining Ritual. When an Archdemon attempts to possess a Grey Warden, it would leap in only to find another Archdemon (or perhaps the same one) is already seemingly present. This causes the resurrection magic to go haywire (perhaps trying to resurrect two Archdemons in one body) that ultimately overloads and destroys the vessel.
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Post by theascendent on Dec 5, 2020 12:00:25 GMT
I hope that it's an Old God vs Archdemon. One awakens corrupt, the other wakes up normally and makes a bargain with us to save his/her corrupted kin because killing the old gods won't make the Blight and Darkspawn disappear.
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Post by azarhal on Dec 5, 2020 13:02:02 GMT
So this looks like a two headed dragon. Could the last two Old Gods actually be one? That would feed into my idea of them being the dragon souls of the Evanuris and the last two represent Dirthamen/Falon'Din who instead of twin brothers seem rather to be twinned souls, so one is the reflection of the other. Thus their faithful would see themselves as serving one or the other but in fact in reality they are serving the same entity. Of course in traditional Tevinter iconography the dragon has 3 heads, so may be the ultimate Old God does have 3. Or they were just mixed in one of those wells. So instead of a normal Blight or double Blight, we get Ghilan'nain's Horror Blight special. Thrice the Horror. Whole knew Darkspawn-not-all-darkspawns. And eyes everywhere.
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Post by ellehaym on Dec 5, 2020 19:53:47 GMT
I remember it was said that the Architect was supposed to be in Here lies the Abyss, but was scrapped.
What if they decide to go through with bringing back the Architect? Maybe he knew of Corypheus exploits and seeks to recreate and advance them. He might have discovered one of Ghilan'nain's labs and is experimenting?
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Post by dayze on Dec 7, 2020 3:35:12 GMT
So this looks like a two headed dragon. Could the last two Old Gods actually be one? That would feed into my idea of them being the dragon souls of the Evanuris and the last two represent Dirthamen/Falon'Din who instead of twin brothers seem rather to be twinned souls, so one is the reflection of the other. Thus their faithful would see themselves as serving one or the other but in fact in reality they are serving the same entity. Of course in traditional Tevinter iconography the dragon has 3 heads, so may be the ultimate Old God does have 3. Well; it one head does have three tongues......so the symbolism of "three" is still being factored in there. The twins could be what happens when a dark ritual is done and instead of one child you get two ala the presumably brother and sister in this image.
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Post by Absafraginlootly on Dec 28, 2020 0:27:56 GMT
A cool little video about where each of the archdemons armies rose and where they died. And a crazy theory for why.
I wonder where the next blight will rise.
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 28, 2020 9:24:35 GMT
I've long wondered if there was a significance to where the Arch-demon emerged in each Blight. However, I question the assertion that the 1st Blight began in the north and east of Tevinter. I've hunted around for a reference that says this but to date have been unsuccessful. All the references I can find point to the fact the the 1st Blight began underground and it was only after the dwarves had been decimated that the darkspawn started to appear on the surface anywhere that there was an exit point from the Deep Roads. Given the close connection between the dwarves and the Imperium it is hardly surprising that they rose up at multiple points across the Imperium.
Likewise, I can find no reference to where exactly Dumat first surfaced, which would presumably be not that far from his prison, although again that is not guaranteed. It would seem that Urthemiel's prison was under Heidrun Thaig which is roughly in the north to centre of Ferelden, whereas the darkspawn first started to emerge in the far south of the country. Initially the Arch-demon wasn't seen on the surface at all, so would appear to have remained travelling underground, which is where we see it not far from Orzammar, also in the north, so I don't know what to make of that but it is quite possible that the darkspawn start surfacing independently of the Arch-demon, which is why they are reported at multiple points in other Blights.
The 4th Blight seemed particularly strange as Andoral seemed focussed on the east side off Thedas, whereas there was a major insurgence in the Anderfels on the west. Could that be linked to the fact that the main Grey Warden base is there? The 2nd Blight was said to have started in the Anderfels and yet there was a major presence of darkspawn in the south at various points across Orlais.
What is peculiar about the 5th Blight is that not only was it the shortest by far but also the only place where darkspawn emerged, so far as we have been told, was in Ferelden. This is quite unlike the other blights where the darkspawn started appearing in several widespread locations.
What I wondered is if it had anything to do with the Magisters Sidereal. If we ignore the Chantry dogma, we know that Urthemiel was awoken by the Architect. According to the Canticle of Silence, the Architect of Beauty was the name given to the High Priest of Urthemiel. So was it merely coincidence that he was the one to awaken him, or is it possible that the Architect was drawn to the Old God by a sub-conscious connection because he was his high priest but due to his amnesia he wasn't aware of this consciously? Then the Architect remained in the general area of Ferelden, although he stayed out of sight during the actual blight. Could it be that he initially went into the deep south?
So what if the necessary component to waking/freeing the Arch-demons was not simply darkspawn tunneling through to their prison but their respective high priest making contact with them? Then since the High-priest seemed to be able to attract darkspawn to them, if they then went in a different direction to the Arch-demon, or simply lost track of them in the Deep Roads, this could account for why the darkspawn appear in other locations. When you also consider that initially there would have been 7 Magisters Sidereal wandering around, possibly all of them afflicted by some sort of amnesia so they had no idea why they were compelled to take a particular direction (towards their own Arch-demon), that could account for why the darkspawn seemed so widespread. It would also explain why there was less time between the first four blights than there was until the fifth. Essentially it took the Architect much longer to make contact with Urthemiel, whilst the other Magisters Sidereal, with the exception of Corypheus, may have gone to ground somewhere, possibly close to where their Old God was slain (although there is a suggestion in a codex that three of them were wandering around together at one time and then one ate another). Note, the Grey Wardens used the corpse of Dumat to attract Corypheus into their trap.
So may be the secret to preventing the ascension of the last two Old Gods is to locate their respective High Priests, who are presumably still wandering around the Deep Roads looking for them.
I would also mention here that I am to some extent ignoring what happened with Corypheus in DAI. In Legacy he was most definitely meant to be attracting darkspawn to his location, presumably because he was giving off a calling similar to that of the Arch-demons. It was this ability that he used against the Grey Wardens, yet despite the fact that it was amplified by the Nightmare demon to reach over a much wider area then normal, it didn't seem to be drawing darkspawn to the surface in any appreciable numbers, as should have been the case. However, we never did discover exactly where his hideout was, so I suppose it is possible that actually this was underground and so the majority of the darkspawn would have been attracted to that location using the Deep Roads, hence us not encountering them in large numbers on the surface.
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