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Post by gervaise21 on Jan 20, 2021 18:55:08 GMT
I can't recall where we first heard it I have found the references now: First there is the instance where Elgar'nan uses the term in banishing the Forbidden Ones. You will note that they were already claiming the title of gods as well at this point. "For abandoning the People in their time of greatest need, for casting aside form to flee to where the Earth could not reach, we declare Xebenkeck and others of her ilk exiled from the lands of the Evanuris. Beware! Their familiarity with shape allows them to travel paths unaided. They may be bound, but only the protection of your gods will fully shield you from their malice. They are Forbidden from the Earth that is our right." Then the second example is presumably Solas towards the end of their reign: "What the Evanuris in their greed could unleash would end us all. Let this place be forgotten. Let no one wake its anger. The People must rise before their false gods destroy them all." Notice he still calls them Evanuris but declares them false gods. So the collective term "Leaders" has probably always been used for them and that is why Solas is still willing to use it to describe them, because that is all they were originally, but he makes it clear that whilst they may be leaders they are not gods. Since the term applies to any leaders of the people, I assume it may apply equally to the Creators and the Forgotten Ones, which would fit with the Dalish legend about him because they say he locked away both groups and he says he banished the Evanuris.
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Post by Black Magic Ritual on Jan 23, 2021 14:30:26 GMT
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Post by fluffysmom on Jan 27, 2021 8:08:52 GMT
Wasn’t quite sure where else to ask this:
Morrigan tells her son that the Inquisitor will be the herald of a new age. I’ve always taken that literally (though wouldn’t it be Solas technically? If he succeeds? Unless Inky redeeming or killing him is what brings about a huge change I guess) If it is literal, what could options be for the name? I can’t think of any words that sound decent that involve what’s going on.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jan 27, 2021 13:31:43 GMT
Morrigan tells her son that the Inquisitor will be the herald of a new age. Actually I thought it was Flemeth who says this, for the obvious reason she is working to achieve that new age, but since she also seems to enter the dreams of the OGB Kieran, if he said the same that could be the source of his words. I don't recall the normal Kieran saying anything significant about the Inquisitor, just commenting on their physical features as a matter of curiosity, e.g. the elf having large ears. OGB Kieran does say that his mother is the "inheritor", which again could be something he has learned through his dreams from Flemeth, since Morrigan has been at pains to cut the ties with her mother.
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Post by fluffysmom on Jan 27, 2021 18:36:33 GMT
Morrigan tells her son that the Inquisitor will be the herald of a new age. Actually I thought it was Flemeth who says this, for the obvious reason she is working to achieve that new age, but since she also seems to enter the dreams of the OGB Kieran, if he said the same that could be the source of his words. I don't recall the normal Kieran saying anything significant about the Inquisitor, just commenting on their physical features as a matter of curiosity, e.g. the elf having large ears. OGB Kieran does say that his mother is the "inheritor", which again could be something he has learned through his dreams from Flemeth, since Morrigan has been at pains to cut the ties with her mother. From the wiki since I can’t find the video: If the Inquisitor is a human rogue or warrior, Kieran will either muse on how the Inquisitor is expected to be scary because people "fear the next age if it comes too soon", or find the Inquisitor nice for someone who kills a lot. If the Inquisitor is a human mage, Kieran will either confess that lyrium gives him "terrible nightmares" and state that lacking the gift of magic is like being blind, or say that his mother wouldn't want him to become a templar and that magic isn't so scary. If the Inquisitor is an elf, Kieran will either say that he doesn't know why the Inquisitor's people "want to look like that" and that their blood is "very old", or confess that he finds elves pretty and laugh at the Inquisitor's large ears. If the Inquisitor is a dwarf, Kieran will either say that the Inquisitor "can't be taller, not without the titans" or share his own desire to be taller. If the Inquisitor is a Qunari, Kieran will either declare that their blood "doesn't belong" to the Inquisitor's people and express his sorrow at what happened to the people or discuss the Inquisitor's height and scary horns. If asked about his mother, Kieran will either call her "the inheritor, she who awaits the next age"
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Post by gervaise21 on Jan 27, 2021 21:28:13 GMT
From the wiki since I can’t find the video: As I said, Kieran only makes normal sort of comments if he isn't the OGB. If he is the OGB it would seem he is getting some insights from the indwelling spirit but it is also possible that Flemeth/Mythal has been speaking to him through his dreams. It is Flemeth who names the Inquisitor the Herald of Change. When the faithful call them the Herald of Andraste they are referring to Drakon's prophesy and they are named as such because they are heralding the return of Andraste as recounted in that vision. It is also meant to be an account of the end of the current world, but heralds the Makers' return as well to bring in a new age of peace and happiness. So people wouldn't be so fearful if that was the case. So I definitely feel that Kieran is talking about something different and like Flemeth he is altering the meaning of their title of Herald because they know it is announcing a great change to the world but not in the way that people believe. This is confirmed by what he says about his mother as there is no mention of an "inheritor" in Drakon's vision.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 27, 2021 22:25:09 GMT
It is Flemeth who names the Inquisitor the Herald of Change. Well we know that to be bullshit now, considering DA4.
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Post by xerrai on Jan 28, 2021 1:16:28 GMT
It is Flemeth who names the Inquisitor the Herald of Change. Well we know that to be bullshit now, considering DA4. Give the Inquisitor some credit, at the bare minimum they majorly impacted Orlais's future. They actively chose who remained emperor/empress, ended their civil war and the budding rebellion within said war, and determining if the Wardens are allowed to stay within the country. And that's not even counting the fact that the new Divine was from Inquisition ranks, with the Inquisitor themselves being able to help determine who was preferred. The Divine choice in particular can set the path for a massive amount of change within the massive institution that is the Chantry. But I think the "herald of change" title was mostly referring to what the Inquisitor uncovered/unintentionally harbored in the time of the Inquisition. Namely, them discovering they were fighting an real magister sidreal, that red lyrium is blighted, that the ancient elves were genuinely onto something in regards to Mythal, and operating alongside Solas who was secretly Fen'Harel. This only get pronounced with the DLCs where they expand on the existence of the Titans and Fen'Harel respectively. All of which has the potential to change Thedas as whole if they are brought onto the main stage at some point. After all, being a "herald" doesn't require us to spearhead the supposed change right? It could just mean that we were a precursor or a means of hinting at whatever 'something' was about to happen. As insufferable as it sounds, the Inquisitor could have been a "herald" for whatever is going to happen DA4 (which likely will deal with major change). Which honestly sounds about right if the stories are right and DA4 was meant to be the latter half of DAI.
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Post by fluffysmom on Jan 28, 2021 1:23:02 GMT
It is Flemeth who names the Inquisitor the Herald of Change. Well we know that to be bullshit now, considering DA4. I always love reading your posts. And I say that without sarcasm. We agree in a lot of things, especially the bitterness of Inky not being a protag. I don’t doubt they’ll be back but not in a capacity that will make me happy. I do have faith in Weekes though so I’m torn about it. Flemeth can still be correct in that Inky was the beginning of it all. But between her and Keiren it does sound more ominous, like they’re meant to do more. A bit like her talking about Hawke’s choice and having to leap or something but that kinda fell flat for me.
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Post by colfoley on Jan 28, 2021 1:55:36 GMT
Well we know that to be bullshit now, considering DA4. Give the Inquisitor some credit, at the bare minimum they majorly impacted Orlais's future. They actively chose who remained emperor/empress, ended their civil war and the budding rebellion within said war, and determining if the Wardens are allowed to stay within the country. And that's not even counting the fact that the new Divine was from Inquisition ranks, with the Inquisitor themselves being able to help determine who was preferred. The Divine choice in particular can set the path for a massive amount of change within the massive institution that is the Chantry. But I think the "herald of change" title was mostly referring to what the Inquisitor uncovered/unintentionally harbored in the time of the Inquisition. Namely, them discovering they were fighting an real magister sidreal, that red lyrium is blighted, that the ancient elves were genuinely onto something in regards to Mythal, and operating alongside Solas who was secretly Fen'Harel. This only get pronounced with the DLCs where they expand on the existence of the Titans and Fen'Harel respectively. All of which has the potential to change Thedas as whole if they are brought onto the main stage at some point. After all, being a "herald" doesn't require us to spearhead the supposed change right? It could just mean that we were a precursor or a means of hinting at whatever 'something' was about to happen. As insufferable as it sounds, the Inquisitor could have been a "herald" for whatever is going to happen DA4 (which likely will deal with major change). Which honestly sounds about right if the stories are right and DA4 was meant to be the latter half of DAI. You pretty much summed up my thoughts. I at least think I have always believed that line reffered more to the Inquisitor's status as being one who is going to 'announce' the new age. Given the previous DA games (each having a new protag) and given I think all of us assumed there would be new Dragon Age games in the futurue, and given how 'herald' is defined on google as: "a person or thing viewed as a sign that something is about to happen." I don't think the intention was to ever have the Inquisitor being responsible for creating the change, afterall Flemeth said 'herald of change' not 'maker of change' that will be the future protagonists in the future games. Assuming of course that they do want to go with a 5 act structure for their games DAI is essentially the pivot point. And that is what the Inquisitor is. The pivot point, the gate keeper, the Herald which will be responsible for witnessing and announcing the turn for Thedas society from what it is to whatever it will become. And this might even be more literal then that. Given they are the only ones aware of Solas's plans thanks to Tresspasser and the only one responsible for spreading that news to the rest of Thedas, and considering Solas's plans...successful or not...promises to be societal shaking then that is what they could be ultimatley warning about. Yeah DAI felt like the transition from relatively small stakes into a much larger more complicated world.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 28, 2021 2:01:19 GMT
Well we know that to be bullshit now, considering DA4. I always love reading your posts. And I say that without sarcasm. We agree in a lot of things, especially the bitterness of Inky not being a protag. I don’t doubt they’ll be back but not in a capacity that will make me happy. I do have faith in Weekes though so I’m torn about it. Flemeth can still be correct in that Inky was the beginning of it all. But between her and Keiren it does sound more ominous, like they’re meant to do more. A bit like her talking about Hawke’s choice and having to leap or something but that kinda fell flat for me. Glad to hear it. I know they won't, because they have never brought a protagonist back in a way that hasn't ruined them. And those ones were far easier to get right than Inquisitor. As for Weekes, Trespasser destroyed that faith. Worst DLC in the franchise, by far, and not just because of Inquisitor. Yeah, them going with a new PC each game sure makes Flemeth seem like she has no idea what she's talking about since she keeps getting her prophecies wrong.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 28, 2021 4:42:21 GMT
Well we know that to be bullshit now, considering DA4. Give the Inquisitor some credit, at the bare minimum they majorly impacted Orlais's future. They actively chose who remained emperor/empress, ended their civil war and the budding rebellion within said war, and determining if the Wardens are allowed to stay within the country. And that's not even counting the fact that the new Divine was from Inquisition ranks, with the Inquisitor themselves being able to help determine who was preferred. The Divine choice in particular can set the path for a massive amount of change within the massive institution that is the Chantry. But I think the "herald of change" title was mostly referring to what the Inquisitor uncovered/unintentionally harbored in the time of the Inquisition. Namely, them discovering they were fighting an real magister sidreal, that red lyrium is blighted, that the ancient elves were genuinely onto something in regards to Mythal, and operating alongside Solas who was secretly Fen'Harel. This only get pronounced with the DLCs where they expand on the existence of the Titans and Fen'Harel respectively. All of which has the potential to change Thedas as whole if they are brought onto the main stage at some point. After all, being a "herald" doesn't require us to spearhead the supposed change right? It could just mean that we were a precursor or a means of hinting at whatever 'something' was about to happen. As insufferable as it sounds, the Inquisitor could have been a "herald" for whatever is going to happen DA4 (which likely will deal with major change). Which honestly sounds about right if the stories are right and DA4 was meant to be the latter half of DAI. I did. Bioware took that credit away when they made all of their work fall flat and be pointless. As for the rest: ^ applies to colfoley post too
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Post by xerrai on Jan 28, 2021 5:10:47 GMT
I always love reading your posts. And I say that without sarcasm. We agree in a lot of things, especially the bitterness of Inky not being a protag. I don’t doubt they’ll be back but not in a capacity that will make me happy. I do have faith in Weekes though so I’m torn about it. Flemeth can still be correct in that Inky was the beginning of it all. But between her and Keiren it does sound more ominous, like they’re meant to do more. A bit like her talking about Hawke’s choice and having to leap or something but that kinda fell flat for me. Glad to hear it. I know they won't, because they have never brought a protagonist back in a way that hasn't ruined them. And those ones were far easier to get right than Inquisitor. As for Weekes, Trespasser destroyed that faith. Worst DLC in the franchise, by far, and not just because of Inquisitor. Yeah, them going with a new PC each game sure makes Flemeth seem like she has no idea what she's talking about since she keeps getting her prophecies wrong. Ah, not to rub the salt on a raw wound but...which prophesies? The one talking about the one in DAI that states she wants a vengeance that will 'shake the heavens' or the one about Hawke 'standing on the precipice of change'? Or something vague about Morrigan being the 'inheritor'? Or did she make a prophesy to the Warden in DAO that i'm forgetting about? Because I was under the impression that they hadn't come to pass yet. Mostly because they all seem to be happening in this elusive period of "change" that we are all waiting for... Flemeth can be such a tease.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 28, 2021 5:18:59 GMT
Glad to hear it. I know they won't, because they have never brought a protagonist back in a way that hasn't ruined them. And those ones were far easier to get right than Inquisitor. As for Weekes, Trespasser destroyed that faith. Worst DLC in the franchise, by far, and not just because of Inquisitor. Yeah, them going with a new PC each game sure makes Flemeth seem like she has no idea what she's talking about since she keeps getting her prophecies wrong. Ah, not to rub the salt on a raw wound but...which prophesies? The one talking about the one in DAI that states she wants a vengeance that will 'shake the heavens' or the one about Hawke 'standing on the precipice of change'? Or something vague about Morrigan being the 'inheritor'? Or did she make a prophesy to the Warden in DAO that i'm forgetting about? Because I was under the impression that they hadn't come to pass yet. Mostly because they all seem to be happening in this elusive period of "change" that we are all waiting for... Flemeth can be such a tease. All of them. They all turned out to be nothing more than the blithering of an old woman who thinks too highly of herself. DAI: Considering Solas will fail, her revenge will never come. And Inquisitor turned out to be nothing but an useless blob. DA2: No precipice of change, no leaping, and now they're sitting in a city they were forced to like helping someone they were forced into liking. Morrigan: Rejects her. She's as good at prophecies as Sokka is:
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Post by The Elder King on Jan 28, 2021 9:26:37 GMT
I’d say the problem with DA2 and Flemeth is the negative reception it got. I give a pass to BioWare on that because despite some directions I don’t agree with, the bulk of the problems of the game was caused by the short dev time allowed by EA. Have the game had a proper development time, I don’t think the reception would’ve be negative, or as negative, and they’d have likely followed with Hawke as the protagonist, and go further into his story and Kirkwall’s.
For DAI, its difficult to understand their reasoning mixed with how they wrote Flemeth and her prophecy. They almost certainly already planned the plot of Tresspasser, and have a new protagonist in mind, because they said in conventions that the dlc was planned as a farewell for the Inquisitor.
I don’t have a problem with a new protagonist, or the dlc in general, but I honestly don’t see how the end is a sendoff for the Inquisitor. While they did mention using different people to stop Solas, people he doesn’t know about, it doesn’t change the fact that the game, either way it ends, makes it clear that the Inquisitor wants to stop Solas, regardless of the reason. The fact that he might do that from the shadow isn’t the same as retiring.
I do wonder if there was some internal discussion and struggle about the new PC, though. Even more so given that they went further then they originally planned and added a romance with Solas.
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Post by fluffysmom on Jan 28, 2021 18:05:33 GMT
I’d say the problem with DA2 and Flemeth is the negative reception it got. I give a pass to BioWare on that because despite some directions I don’t agree with, the bulk of the problems of the game was caused by the short dev time allowed by EA. Have the game had a proper development time, I don’t think the reception would’ve be negative, or as negative, and they’d have likely followed with Hawke as the protagonist, and go further into his story and Kirkwall’s. For DAI, its difficult to understand their reasoning mixed with how they wrote Flemeth and her prophecy. They almost certainly already planned the plot of Tresspasser, and have a new protagonist in mind, because they said in conventions that the dlc was planned as a farewell for the Inquisitor. I don’t have a problem with a new protagonist, or the dlc in general, but I honestly don’t see how the end is a sendoff for the Inquisitor. While they did mention using different people to stop Solas, people he doesn’t know about, it doesn’t change the fact that the game, either way it ends, makes it clear that the Inquisitor wants to stop Solas, regardless of the reason. The fact that he might do that from the shadow isn’t the same as retiring. I do wonder if there was some internal discussion and struggle about the new PC, though. Even more so given that they went further then they originally planned and added a romance with Solas. My main complaint with Flemeth trying to hype our characters up and make them sound important is it tends to feel rather lackluster beside party members like Anders and Solas. Oh, our PC is going to make decisions that could bring about a new age or lead to long lasting change? Doesn’t Anders make a much bigger impact compared to Hawke? Nothing my Hawke did seems to have any lasting impact in DAI. At least with the Warden I can stand there and see statues in her honor and know that the land and people would be dead if not for her. As for the Inquisitor, it never really felt like there was danger? Sure rifts were everywhere, usually in the middle of nowhere with no people around. Crestwood was the only place where the rift was actively causing problems. To me it became more about Cory and his dragon and my mark was just a sidequest with no real hurry to actually close them. The future potential of what could happen if we don’t, or if we lose, is optional. To me, Solas is shown to be a hell of a lot more troublesome, cunning and powerful in Trespasser than Cory ever was and Inky doesn’t even get to deal with it. Like Anders, he will likely have a much bigger impact going forward that can actually be felt. I’m not really complaining cuz I adore Flemeth and all of her dialogue. Talking to her each game is always a highlight of my playthroughs. I suppose it’s more on the shoulders of the game itself, or maybe even me, where I don’t feel I accomplished much. Not helped by the fact that a lot of your decisions aren’t mentioned much again aside from war table missions. Again I get it. Resources, lack of time, too many branching paths. But if your choice is relegated to codex or a two minute cutscene, then why bother. There is pretty much no difference in your choice of King or Queen or both. (Just as an example) But I’m getting into a different debate that doesn’t belong here. Flemeth needs to stop trying to boost my ego if my companions keep stealing the spotlight. lol
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Post by xerrai on Jan 28, 2021 20:03:05 GMT
My main complaint with Flemeth trying to hype our characters up and make them sound important is it tends to feel rather lackluster beside party members like Anders and Solas. Oh, our PC is going to make decisions that could bring about a new age or lead to long lasting change? Doesn’t Anders make a much bigger impact compared to Hawke? Nothing my Hawke did seems to have any lasting impact in DAI. At least with the Warden I can stand there and see statues in her honor and know that the land and people would be dead if not for her. [...] I’m not really complaining cuz I adore Flemeth and all of her dialogue. Talking to her each game is always a highlight of my playthroughs. I suppose it’s more on the shoulders of the game itself, or maybe even me, where I don’t feel I accomplished much. Not helped by the fact that a lot of your decisions aren’t mentioned much again aside from war table missions. Again I get it. Resources, lack of time, too many branching paths. But if your choice is relegated to codex or a two minute cutscene, then why bother. There is pretty much no difference in your choice of King or Queen or both. (Just as an example) But I’m getting into a different debate that doesn’t belong here. Flemeth needs to stop trying to boost my ego if my companions keep stealing the spotlight. lol True, the game itself does alot to hype up the protagonist of each game as something important. Which from a certain point of view both does and does not makes sense. Our characters are often involved in stopping literal apocalyptic threats (sans Hawke), that is true. And the game world itself usually acknowledges this. But the grand majority of the time our protags have to deal with relatively more mundane matters. Like who gets to rule a kingdom, ending wars, searching ancient ruins and uncovering ancient secrets, etc. These things are major to modern to Thedosians, and more than worthy to qualify someone majorly important. A figure of legend. It's not quite as grandiose as stopping an ancient magister or an Old God, but then, the world never really had to deal with those threats did they? The protagonist did. We literally stop the major Avengers-level threat before it gets too big. Which is probably why the world mostly forgets about it by the time the next game rolls around (Fifth Blight? Oh that wasn't a real blight. Magister causing the Breach? Oh that's old news Inquisitor now we need to talk about downsizing the Inquisition). We literally crush the threat in its formative stages. But Flemeth's cryptic wording often implies something...more dire. Something above the petty squabbling of mortal men and thier politics that we are usually forced to deal with. Something foreboding and vague about a 'new age' or some sort of great 'change'. In many ways she is not so much hyping our characters as she is hyping the series' future. Her saying Hawke should 'not hesitate to leap'? Just before that she implied/qualified they should do that when the world 'plummets into the abyss'--none of which happens in DA2 proper or even DAI. And her alleged prophesy to the Herald in DAI was barely a prophesy at all, but a mere acknowledgement that the herald is a herald of sorts ("A herald indeed") which we all know was haphazardly placed upon them by a panicking Theodosian populace. Her DAI appearance was more to relay an outline of her origins and main goal than anything else. I don't think she was meant to hype our character at all, she's meant to hype whatever Big Thing TM is going to happen later on. But admittedly, that viewpoint is mostly because she is one of Dragon Age's more enigmatic characters. I still don't know if she is meant to be a future ally or a great enemy in the future. But I don't think she views any of our protagonists as anything special. Or at least, no more special than the last powerful figure in history who encountered her.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jan 28, 2021 21:41:40 GMT
But I don't think she views any of our protagonists as anything special. Or at least, no more special than the last powerful figure in history who encountered her You probably right about that. After all, even as Flemeth, she has been around way longer than everyone else and must have observed many of the events in the last few hundred years even if only on the side-lines but at the same time nudging events in the direction she wishes them to take. This is why I am skeptical about her prophesying the future when she has been trying to send it in a particular direction. Of course, sometimes things don't work out entirely as she hoped they would, so if her previous saying don't quite match later events it is because people didn't act in the way she thought they would. Solas giving his orb to Corypheus and then the ancient magister not dying when he unlocked would count as one such event. However, Solas coming to meet her was something she clearly predicted would happen as a result of the destruction of his orb.
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Post by fluffysmom on Feb 1, 2021 7:36:09 GMT
I was bored today and decided to listen to the VGS podcast interview with Weekes from 2017. (I think) In the part that discusses Solas he stated that Gaider’s vision for the franchises future is heartbreaking, and it got me thinking if I have a breaking point as far as events go. I know that’s kind of drastic but I wanted to ask folks here if they have a certain event in mind that would end their enjoyment of the game. Say for example Solas, or someone else, succeeds in tearing down the veil and a lot of the population, including past main characters and romances, die. Or the world we’ve grown to love all these years becomes unrecognizable. Or what would you consider heartbreaking that they could possibly do?
He stated he won’t try to write it as Gaider would have, that he intends to put his own spin on it, but I still wanted to ask.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2021 11:01:39 GMT
I was bored today and decided to listen to the VGS podcast interview with Weekes from 2017. (I think) In the part that discusses Solas he stated that Gaider’s vision for the franchises future is heartbreaking, and it got me thinking if I have a breaking point as far as events go. I know that’s kind of drastic but I wanted to ask folks here if they have a certain event in mind that would end their enjoyment of the game. Say for example Solas, or someone else, succeeds in tearing down the veil and a lot of the population, including past main characters and romances, die. Or the world we’ve grown to love all these years becomes unrecognizable. Or what would you consider heartbreaking that they could possibly do? He stated he won’t try to write it as Gaider would have, that he intends to put his own spin on it, but I still wanted to ask. I can't predict today which kind of events can break my heart in the future or - to take that even further - would end my enjoyment of the game. You don't know until it happens, do you? Generally speaking, I am always hurt by seeing beloved characters suffering from hopelessness, poverty or disease. I remember seeing an artwork a few months ago painted by Matt Rhodes between DA2 and DA:I. The picture shows a man in a frail physical condition. He looks wrecked and it is obvious that the fate treated him unkindly. The caption below this artwork: "DA:I - Some guy in a cave". The moment I saw this artwork and I realised who this longhaired, bearded and frightened little piece of misery was, my heart broke. The decision BioWare had made for one of my favourite characters, for Hawkes best friend, loyal companion and true love in DA2, shook me to the core. But, to be honest, this story arc was perfect. Exactly as I would have done as an author. (Irrespective of the fact that this did not make it into the game.) So, for my part, I don't fear a happy end which fails to materialise nor heartbreaking visions for the franchises future. In fact quite the reverse is true. I don't want DA to become a Disney-show for children. In my opinion DA:I was kind too much of a scout camp filled with comic-like figures and a silly story. I suppose my enjoyment of the game would end if this trend continues into the future. The same applies for BioWare's bad habit of writing character stories whose endings always remain untold. That really sucks. (Btw: Sorry for using weird expressions sometimes. English is not my first language. )
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Post by telanadas on Feb 1, 2021 12:33:55 GMT
I was bored today and decided to listen to the VGS podcast interview with Weekes from 2017. (I think) In the part that discusses Solas he stated that Gaider’s vision for the franchises future is heartbreaking, and it got me thinking if I have a breaking point as far as events go. I think the tone between DAO and DAI has changed quite significantly, so despite what DG envisioned I feel like DA4 will probably follow in the same vein of DAI, being colourful and 'fun' despite the pretty serious themes of slavery, death and impending world destruction. It's a weird contrast when you think about it, on one hand they are crafting all this intricate lore and writing about very serious issues, and on the other the MC in DAI is using bright and colourful magic to kill people and creatures without any real consequence (Dorian even cheerfully remarks about the body count in DAI). The lack of consequence in DAI did make it feel like a bit comic-like, I agree. They had medics at Skyhold talk about broken bones and healing with science...but that wasn't really fleshed out at all. They didn't even bother explaining the hygiene issues at Skyhold lol. Balancing the line between serious and fun must be a really hard thing to do, but there are some stories from TN that makes me hope DA4 will be even better than DAI. Maybe they could allow people to settle fights amicably(like in Skyrim if you lower your weapon your opponent may do the same) or have an option for a pacifist/stealth route like Vaea. The main thing I am hoping for is more meaningful, thought-provoking quests and a nuanced story arc for Solas and the people who have impacted his journey along the way (yes, including the inquisitor). If that part of the story has an unsatisfying outcome I sure hope they have a new anti-villain to love and hate in store xD I honestly think the main reason people are still invested in Dragon Age to this day is because we're on the cusp of learning some serious Thedas history that changes everything we thought we knew. I'm keeping an open mind for DA4, as long as the characters stay true to their previous actions, the story is believable and not lore-breaking and has an emotional impact ... that is the main thing am hoping for anyway.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2021 13:18:48 GMT
I was bored today and decided to listen to the VGS podcast interview with Weekes from 2017. (I think) In the part that discusses Solas he stated that Gaider’s vision for the franchises future is heartbreaking, and it got me thinking if I have a breaking point as far as events go. I think the tone between DAO and DAI has changed quite significantly, so despite what DG envisioned I feel like DA4 will probably follow in the same vein of DAI, being colourful and 'fun' despite the pretty serious themes of slavery, death and impending world destruction. It's a weird contrast when you think about it, on one hand they are crafting all this intricate lore and writing about very serious issues, and on the other the MC in DAI is using bright and colourful magic to kill people and creatures without any real consequence (Dorian even cheerfully remarks about the body count in DAI). The lack of consequence in DAI did make it feel like a bit comic-like, I agree. That's how I see it, too. DA:I was way too colourful and cheerful, especially compared to DAO. It somehow reminds me of "Kingdoms of Amalur". Personally I would prefer to see a darker version of DA4 which would be more appropriate to the topics you mentioned earlier.
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Post by fluffysmom on Feb 1, 2021 16:48:09 GMT
I think the tone between DAO and DAI has changed quite significantly, so despite what DG envisioned I feel like DA4 will probably follow in the same vein of DAI, being colourful and 'fun' despite the pretty serious themes of slavery, death and impending world destruction. It's a weird contrast when you think about it, on one hand they are crafting all this intricate lore and writing about very serious issues, and on the other the MC in DAI is using bright and colourful magic to kill people and creatures without any real consequence (Dorian even cheerfully remarks about the body count in DAI). The lack of consequence in DAI did make it feel like a bit comic-like, I agree. That's how I see it, too. DA:I was way too colourful and cheerful, especially compared to DAO. It somehow reminds me of "Kingdoms of Amalur". Personally I would prefer to see a darker version of DA4 which would be more appropriate to the topics you mentioned earlier. This is the main reason I asked. I’m in the camp that misses the darker tone of Origins and how it still had hope, laughter and love sprinkled throughout. I don’t do well with lore like a lot of people I read here, or even some of my friends, and as someone who loves to write, the characters and romances are always a main focus for me. They get me invested in the world and history. Solas for example. I never liked elves. Was never even the slightest bit interested in their history. I found them boring. I now have a notebook filled with theories and trying to connect things. I still hate the Dalish but I do feel sorry for them now at least. So I think for me it would be character death. I want darker themes but I don’t want some characters to die if I don’t make that choice. It’s hard living with my brain sometimes. lol Solas dying specifically. I think he deserves to, it would make sense in a lot of ways, but it actually happening would make me seriously consider not playing anymore. I hope it’s a choice for those that hate him. I adore his character too much. I think he’s fascinating and it would be a shame to lose so much interesting and flawed potential. Plus, I just think romances dying is cheap and not a good idea. I have plenty of sadness in my day-to-day thanks. Warden Alistair isn’t my canon but Hawke gets yeeted in those playthroughs without hesitation. If it had been Fenris and Alistair, that would have bugged me. Romances are not the end all. I play Far Cry and F.E.A.R and get just as invested in those characters. I’d still be here for DA5 but there would be hesitation. A great deal of disappointment. The lighter tone they’ve adopted would then bug me a lot more than it already does.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2021 18:26:01 GMT
That's how I see it, too. DA:I was way too colourful and cheerful, especially compared to DAO. It somehow reminds me of "Kingdoms of Amalur". Personally I would prefer to see a darker version of DA4 which would be more appropriate to the topics you mentioned earlier. I don’t do well with lore like a lot of people I read here, or even some of my friends, and as someone who loves to write, the characters and romances are always a main focus for me. They get me invested in the world and history. Solas for example. I never liked elves. Was never even the slightest bit interested in their history. I found them boring. I now have a notebook filled with theories and trying to connect things. I still hate the Dalish but I do feel sorry for them now at least. Well, that makes two of us. Character development is key. In my opinion the storyline should be woven according to the process of the development of the personalities of the characters and its plot designed so that the events and conflicts arise and develop through the relationships between the personalities. I for instance was never interested in mages and now one of my favourite characters is a mage and I'm crying because his story has fallen into oblivion. Maybe I should also have a notebook I can fill with theories about Anders and his whereabouts. So I think for me it would be character death. I want darker themes but I don’t want some characters to die if I don’t make that choice. It’s hard living with my brain sometimes. lol Solas dying specifically. I think he deserves to, it would make sense in a lot of ways, but it actually happening would make me seriously consider not playing anymore. In my opinion writing is art and art must be disturbing. Or in the words of Banksy: "Art should comfort the disturbed and disturb the comfortable." You can't disturb people by writing children's books. If I were a writer, I would kill Solas and accept that this decision would make you angry. (It is nothing personal.) Nowadays writer try too hard to pamper people and to fulfil the expectations of the fans. Instead of writing hard and clear about what hurts. That's not art. It's mainstream.
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Post by fluffysmom on Feb 1, 2021 19:45:47 GMT
I don’t do well with lore like a lot of people I read here, or even some of my friends, and as someone who loves to write, the characters and romances are always a main focus for me. They get me invested in the world and history. Solas for example. I never liked elves. Was never even the slightest bit interested in their history. I found them boring. I now have a notebook filled with theories and trying to connect things. I still hate the Dalish but I do feel sorry for them now at least. Well, that makes two of us. Character development is key. In my opinion the storyline should be woven according to the process of the development of the personalities of the characters and its plot designed so that the events and conflicts arise and develop through the relationships between the personalities. I for instance was never interested in mages and now one of my favourite characters is a mage and I'm crying because his story has fallen into oblivion. Maybe I should also have a notebook I can fill with theories about Anders and his whereabouts. So I think for me it would be character death. I want darker themes but I don’t want some characters to die if I don’t make that choice. It’s hard living with my brain sometimes. lol Solas dying specifically. I think he deserves to, it would make sense in a lot of ways, but it actually happening would make me seriously consider not playing anymore. In my opinion witing is art and art must be disturbing. Or in the words of Banksy: "Art should comfort the disturbed and disturb the comfortable." You can't disturb people by writing children's books. If I were a writer, I would kill Solas and accept that this decision would make you angry. (It is nothing personal.) Nowadays writer try too hard to pamper people and to fulfil the expectations of the fans. Instead of writing hard and clear about what hurts. That's not art. It's mainstream. Oh, I understand that. I torture my own characters and I don’t care what my readers want in the end. I have a goal, what motivated me to write it in the first place, and I’m going to reach that goal no matter what. But a character doesn’t have to die to be tragic. Like I said it would make sense, he doesn’t deserve a rainbow ending for the deaths he’s caused and if he wasn’t a romance I’d probably kill him myself but he is and that changes things for me. It’s a lot of factors: escapism, emotional investment ect but dying is easier than living. To me Solas’ tragedy is that he’s had to live with the decision he made, and if the redeem option is viable, then him having to elf-up and help the elves of this time as ‘punishment’ or whatever is a lot more interesting a concept than him lying dead and kicked into a hole. But discussions on this depend on too much. How we grew up, life experiences and what makes up happy. I won’t hate them. I won’t even hate Weekes. I expect it to happen but it will ruin my enjoyment if it does and it’s their fault for making such an amazing character. lol I always kill Anders but I was never invested in his character in 2. If it had happened in Awakening when I adored the crap out of him then it would have been much different. At least there’s an option in 2 for those that romanced him. If your character had been forced to kill him would that have served him better story-wise? Or your character?
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