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Post by colfoley on Nov 10, 2021 1:46:19 GMT
Despite what Solas says, there has to be some sort of link between the ancient elves and the Old Gods, or why would Mythal be so interested in their survival? I like the theory that they are part of the magical locks on the doors behind which the Enuvaris are locked. That would means there is a few of those door seals that have been weakened now. Mythal is very "protect the dragons at all cost" so her wanting to save them doesn't sound that special to me once I learned of that aspect. There is actually an interesting contrast between Solas and Mythal when it comes to the Wardens, Blight and Archdemons. She wanted the Blight stopped, she knows the Wardens are required and she knew how they went about it so she had a ritual to deal with it. Solas is just pissed about everything... I actually do wonder if Mythal approves of Solas's action. She complained about the world being betrayed in DAO, but the only betrayal related to the World I can see is Solas putting the Veil up. I took her betryal to mean her murder. "I was betrayed as she was betrayed as the world was betrayed". All a part of the same cycle of betrayal. "Alas as long as the music plays, we dance."
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by azarhal on Nov 10, 2021 3:41:47 GMT
I like the theory that they are part of the magical locks on the doors behind which the Enuvaris are locked. That would means there is a few of those door seals that have been weakened now. Mythal is very "protect the dragons at all cost" so her wanting to save them doesn't sound that special to me once I learned of that aspect. There is actually an interesting contrast between Solas and Mythal when it comes to the Wardens, Blight and Archdemons. She wanted the Blight stopped, she knows the Wardens are required and she knew how they went about it so she had a ritual to deal with it. Solas is just pissed about everything... I actually do wonder if Mythal approves of Solas's action. She complained about the world being betrayed in DAO, but the only betrayal related to the World I can see is Solas putting the Veil up. I took her betryal to mean her murder. "I was betrayed as she was betrayed as the world was betrayed". All a part of the same cycle of betrayal. "Alas as long as the music plays, we dance." I always took that quote to mean something negative happened to the world from people supposed to protected it and she paralleled that to her own betrayal from her allies. I was even thinking way back after DAO release that the "world's betrayal" was related to the Veil because there was hints in that game that something was off about it. Then Yavana brought up a world before the Veil in the comic and that sealed it as a theory. Yavana's speech also makes me think that Flemythal wants the Veil gone... And their is a link between the Veil being put up and her murder too. The " Alas as long as the music plays, we dance" I always took that as a refence to some sort of pre-ordained or manipulated destiny. She also brings up fate in DA2 with her " is it fate or chance? I can never decide". The Andrastian also believe in something like that which they call the Maker's Will. And the references in the Chant seems to point to the Lyrium's song (music) being the Maker's will. "In the hills lies a silver pool where they say The Voice of Heaven can be heard most clearly. Let us go together and hear the Maker's Will." Refined Blue Lyrium turns into a silver liquid and here we have a silver pool. Blessed are the righteous, the lights in the shadow. In their blood the Maker's will is written. Lyrium is technically blood, it sing the Maker's Will according to the other passage and it glows in the dark of the Deep Roads. That might just be clueless interpretation of hearing Lyrium sing turned dogmas or the people who wrote those part of the Chant might be into something.
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Post by colfoley on Nov 10, 2021 4:37:43 GMT
I took her betryal to mean her murder. "I was betrayed as she was betrayed as the world was betrayed". All a part of the same cycle of betrayal. "Alas as long as the music plays, we dance." I always took that quote to mean something negative happened to the world from people supposed to protected it and she paralleled that to her own betrayal from her allies. I was even thinking way back after DAO release that the "world's betrayal" was related to the Veil because there was hints in that game that something was off about it. Then Yavana brought up a world before the Veil in the comic and that sealed it as a theory. Yavana's speech also makes me think that Flemythal wants the Veil gone... And their is a link between the Veil being put up and her murder too. The " Alas as long as the music plays, we dance" I always took that as a refence to some sort of pre-ordained or manipulated destiny. She also brings up fate in DA2 with her " is it fate or chance? I can never decide". The Andrastian also believe in something like that which they call the Maker's Will. And the references in the Chant seems to point to the Lyrium's song (music) being the Maker's will. "In the hills lies a silver pool where they say The Voice of Heaven can be heard most clearly. Let us go together and hear the Maker's Will." Refined Blue Lyrium turns into a silver liquid and here we have a silver pool. Blessed are the righteous, the lights in the shadow. In their blood the Maker's will is written. Lyrium is technically blood, it sing the Maker's Will according to the other passage and it glows in the dark of the Deep Roads. That might just be clueless interpretation of hearing Lyrium sing turned dogmas or the people who wrote those part of the Chant might be into something. Of course its hard to know for sure but there are two relevant points. 1. My thoughts on Mythal's 'betrayal' was from the rest of the Evanuris and them mudering her. I believe that she was doing something to oppose them. That they had done something very bad which she was adamently opposed to and instead of dealing with it they decided to kill her instead. Them doing so is what enraged Solas to bring up the veil which then caused all of its negative problems...which Mythal might have even considered a betrayal to. 2. I do agree with you when it comes to be there is some sort of 'voice' out there that is manipulating events and creating music. There is enough samurai folding within the series, enough refernces to music to suggest that there is an entitity/ entities/ maybe variation on the same entity that seems to be interested in controlling events and it seems to have something to do with Lyrium...as you said. Blue Lyrium seems to cause out a hollowing of the will of those who use it combined with hearing voices...and Red Lyrium seems to cause a more aggressive form of the same phemnon to happen as we have seen from the Red Templars and others. Still further questions to muse then, we also know that seemingly *lesser* beings can hijack this signal because Corypheus was able to manipulate Wardens and Red Templars so then what is it? Does Mythal view what Solas did to her at the end of Inquisition as a betrayal or his bringing up the veil as a betrayal of the world? What does this say of the Red Lyrium Idol which might show one of these events?
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Post by gervaise21 on Nov 10, 2021 8:10:05 GMT
Mythal is very "protect the dragons at all cost" so her wanting to save them doesn't sound that special to me once I learned of that aspect. The Old God isn't just a dragon though and it is the Old God soul that she and Morrigan were trying to save. It is quite clear that it is some sort of ancient being from the conversations we can have we Kieran. Now it is possible that the ancient great dragons had a degree of intelligence, as evidenced in the Silent Grove, and Yavana is able to communicate with them but the knowledge displayed by Kieran seems to go beyond that. Flemeth actually says the being in him is similar to Mythal. Now the Avvar believe that favoured souls can return in a new body but remembering little of their former lives except through dreams (the Fade). It is possible that OGB Kieran recovered his memories through dreams as apparently he has been troubled by dreams and once the Old God soul leaves him, Flemeth promises there will be no more dreams. I've always been undecided about Mythal wishing to preserve the Old God soul. Clearly it aids her own plans but in what way? Was it simply a way to acquire more power or was it to prevent her enemies from doing so? Are the Old Gods the split souls of the other Evanuris? Will capturing the soul weaken them in some way, whereas if it is allowed to go free and return to them, it will make them more powerful? I don't believe the Grey Wardens were correct that the soul is destroyed when they kill the arch-demon. Maybe the Grey Warden soul is but I think the Old God soul is then freed of its mortal shell (just like with Hakkon). However, if its other half is not in the Fade but the Void, then the union will just result in a stronger arch-demon type creature. This could be what Mythal wishes to prevent. Could it also be that if the corrupted soul in the Void (or out of it) is destroyed, then the other half, which she has preserved, could be used to restore the original uncorrupted being? Solas' anxiety about killing the last two Old Gods suggested more to me than him just being pissed with everybody. He is contemptuous of the Grey Wardens for thinking they can control something they do not truly understand and mad for using the Joining and thinking they can control the results. The moment he started freaking out about the expedition to kill the Old Gods, I immediately thought "he knows more about this than he is letting on." Of course, this is one of those occasions when the writers hand our PC the idiot ball because we are not allowed to press him more on it. "What do you know about the Blight?" is also one of those questions I would have liked to have asked at the end of Trespasser but apparently never crossed the mind of the Inquisitor. "Tell me about the war with the Titans" is another, which to my mind is related to the former. We went through the Descent and then Trespasser, along with the references in the Temple of Mythal, and yet this never comes up again with him? Then when we specifically ask why this world has to die, he refuses to give the relevant information. Why not? If, deep down, he wants us to stop him, then we need that information. If he believes it is impossible to stop him, why not at least tell us why he is doing it? If he thinks it may help us to stop him, why say anything at all? What the writers were really saying was "spoilers" and that meeting with Solas was always just a prolonged trailer for the next game. Pity it has taken them so long to follow through with it.
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Post by magenpie on Nov 10, 2021 14:36:31 GMT
So is Sandal someone a bit like Varta, a pure soul connected to the Titans? And presumably there's a giant red angry pulsating Red Lyrium Titan heart somewhere around the place, from the Titan who is apparently 'very sick' and spreading the Red Lyrium disease everywhere?
I've been clicking on Cole outside the Winter Palace tavern and he's saying some tantalizingly interesting things. I wish I'd recorded them.
And if Flemeth is basically a human with a 'rider' in the form of Mythal, then I suppose Solas is an elf with a 'rider' in the form of Fen'Harel? And if Flemeth/Mythal is able to split bits of her soul from herself, for safe keeping, as she says to Hawke in DA2, then presumably Fen'Harel can do it too? So is the Old God soul in Kieran actually the rest of Fen'Harel that he's claiming back? He says he is too weak after his long sleep, so perhaps taking back the rest of is soul would power him up to full strength again?
But if Solas in DA:I is mostly an elf with a bit of Fen'Harel, then I wonder if Red Lyrium would have the power to distort the bitterness and anger Fen'Harel feels to destructive proportions. The Secret Room clearly shows he's been 'brooding' about it for a long time and the mural showing the Red Titan might indicate Solas has been hanging out with it? So maybe he's caught the disease?
And the spanner in my theory is the codex going on about how he appears as humble with wise counsel but soon turns to poison. But perhaps that's a prophesy?
And apologies if all this stuff has been suggested or debunked earlier in this thread - but it's such a huge and daunting prospect to read, I haven't had the stamina to read it all!
So many questions!! *crosses all limbs/fingers/toes for a DA4 announcement on December 4th!*
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by azarhal on Nov 10, 2021 15:23:34 GMT
So is Sandal someone a bit like Varta, a pure soul connected to the Titans? And presumably there's a giant red angry pulsating Red Lyrium Titan heart somewhere around the place, from the Titan who is apparently 'very sick' and spreading the Red Lyrium disease everywhere? I've been clicking on Cole outside the Winter Palace tavern and he's saying some tantalizingly interesting things. I wish I'd recorded them. And if Flemeth is basically a human with a 'rider' in the form of Mythal, then I suppose Solas is an elf with a 'rider' in the form of Fen'Harel? And if Flemeth/Mythal is able to split bits of her soul from herself, for safe keeping, as she says to Hawke in DA2, then presumably Fen'Harel can do it too? So is the Old God soul in Kieran actually the rest of Fen'Harel that he's claiming back? He says he is too weak after his long sleep, so perhaps taking back the rest of is soul would power him up to full strength again? But if Solas in DA:I is mostly an elf with a bit of Fen'Harel, then I wonder if Red Lyrium would have the power to distort the bitterness and anger Fen'Harel feels to destructive proportions. The Secret Room clearly shows he's been 'brooding' about it for a long time and the mural showing the Red Titan might indicate Solas has been hanging out with it? So maybe he's caught the disease? And the spanner in my theory is the codex going on about how he appears as humble with wise counsel but soon turns to poison. But perhaps that's a prophesy? And apologies if all this stuff has been suggested or debunked earlier in this thread - but it's such a huge and daunting prospect to read, I haven't had the stamina to read it all! So many questions!! *crosses all limbs/fingers/toes for a DA4 announcement on December 4th!* So many questions. I believe there was some hints that Sandal was an abandoned Dwarf/Elf baby. That doesn't exclude him being a Pure, but they usually don't leave their Titan. There is no proof there is a "red" Titan. All we know is that Red lyrium is tainted/blighted Blue lyrium. In DA2, we see Blue lyrium before things switch to red near the Primeval thaig. In DAI, Solas suggest the Red lyrium at the Temple was Blue lyrium corrupted by magic. It's possible the Red Lyrium at the Primeval Thaig was also Blue Lyrium corrupted by magic instead of having a Titan source. And in DAI, Red Lyrium is grown on/in living things, like people... A lots of the stuff Cole says are movie references. It can be misleading to read game related things in them. Flemeth qualify as an abomination if we use a Chantry terminology. Similar to Anders and Justice, but with the two halves having a fully merged personality and indistinguishable from one another. Solas is just the original Solas, he's not an abomination. There are hints in DAI that he used to be a spirit before taking shape, and that appear to be the case for most of the Ancient elves. Flemeth can create Horcruxes. Which means she's probably not dead. There is zero information indicating if Solas know how to do the same. Solas was always planning to destroy the world before DAI started. The entire DAI plot was jump started by him manipulating Corypheus to use the focus, because he was too weak to use it himself. After that plan failed, he just moved on to find another way to do it...
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Post by magenpie on Nov 10, 2021 16:32:36 GMT
azarhal - I dunno, the Titan in the Mural in the Secret Room looks pretty red to me?
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Post by gervaise21 on Nov 10, 2021 22:09:38 GMT
There is no proof there is a "red" Titan. No, but that short video "game in progress" shot from 18 months or so ago made me think of the inside of a corrupted titan. Titan in the Mural in the Secret Room looks pretty red to me? Yep, that's when the theories first began about the blighted titan being the result of what Elgar'nan and Mythal did to it. I suppose Solas is an elf with a 'rider' in the form of Fen'Harel? Solas specifically denies this. He claims Fen'Harel is simply his alter ego that he adopted during his conflict with the Evanuris. However, he does seem to exhibit a certain degree of split personality, particularly when it comes to his presence in the Fade. It almost seems like he is Solas in the Waking World but Fen'Harel in the Fade, which is also where he seems most powerful. Like as not we will probably have to confront the Dread Wolf in the Fade in order to defeat him. So is the Old God soul in Kieran actually the rest of Fen'Harel that he's claiming back? Since the OGB does not exist in all playthroughs, this cannot be a major plot point. Whatever Solas was absorbing, it was some essence of Mythal, not the Old God soul. However, Flemeth sent something into the eluvian just before he arrived, so whatever he absorbed, it likely wasn't the whole being. There may be fragments of Mythal that have been left by her/Flemeth as part of their plans. There certainly seemed some part of Mythal in the Well of Sorrows as this is what rose up to confront Corypheus and Flemeth was aware that the Well had been drunk from, suggesting a link between the consciousness in the Well and that of Mythal elsewhere. Bear in mind also that whatever Solas absorbed may ultimately control him.
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Post by magenpie on Nov 10, 2021 22:24:33 GMT
Since the OGB does not exist in all playthroughs, this cannot be a major plot point.
I always always forget this. But they *could* wing it somehow? I mean Leliana can be killed in DA:O, and yet there she is in Inquisition. OGB just seems such an important plot point, and almost too good to chuck away on a player whim. Why have it there, with all it's implications, if you're not going to use it again eventually, if you see what I mean? But yes, I take your point.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by azarhal on Nov 10, 2021 23:35:33 GMT
Since the OGB does not exist in all playthroughs, this cannot be a major plot point.
I always always forget this. But they *could* wing it somehow? I mean Leliana can be killed in DA:O, and yet there she is in Inquisition. OGB just seems such an important plot point, and almost too good to chuck away on a player whim. Why have it there, with all it's implications, if you're not going to use it again eventually, if you see what I mean? But yes, I take your point. Patrick Weekes said there wouldn't be another Leliana. And he loves hard mutually exclusive choices with harsh consequences. Having the Dark ritual leading to some important choices in DAI will probably not even beat the Quarian/Geth branching he wrote in ME3...
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Post by gervaise21 on Nov 11, 2021 8:00:44 GMT
Why have it there, with all it's implications, if you're not going to use it again eventually, if you see what I mean? Patrick Weekes said there wouldn't be another Leliana. This is a problem with choices that carry over from game to game, particularly if they are having a world wide rather than local effect. Whilst you can assume a majority took one particular option, there will always be a fair proportion that didn't and will feel cheated if the world state is based around the other decision. So a choice like who will be monarch of Ferelden can be accommodated fairly easily. (Although in the novels and comics it is assumed to be Alistair). However, the Dark Ritual had implications that you could have been specifically trying to avoid in rejecting it, so Kieran could never be as important as he could have been if you had been given no choice about whether to take it or not. There is a similar problem with the Well of Sorrows going forward. It was made to sound like it could be important whether you chose to drink or not. Certainly, it was clear that Mythal could control the drinker but surely that would be far more significant if the Inquisitor drank. In DAI there is an advantage to drinking because you get to read codices that you cannot without it and in Trespasser you can appease the spirits guarding Fen'Harel's sanctuary through the knowledge you gained through the Well. Yet there must be some sort of downside going forward, even if the Inquisitor has been side-lined. Solas even questioned us about what we were going to do with the power of the Well, even if Morrigan drank from it so to my mind we had no control over its use beyond what she would allow us. Thus, you would think the Well of Sorrows choice is going to be important in the Solas plot going forward but I am not confident this will be the case. It is clear from the epilogue to Trespasser that they were trying to smooth away the differences between world states going forward no matter what your choices were in the main game. Regardless of who you chose as Divine and what you did with the mages and Templars, a general return to the status quo before the rebellion seemed on the cards, with the slight difference that there was an independent College of Enchanters in some world states but in all cases overshadowed by Vivienne, whose loyalist Circle was by far the more powerful faction and so it may be assumed would ultimately triumph. The Inquisition also still exists regardless of our decision over whether to disband it or not. Mostly, though, it isn't going to matter, at least in the short term, as they are moving us to a completely different part of Thedas, so really it is only going to affect the codices we read. Then there is that choice over Solas at the end of Trespasser. Will it really make any difference to the outcome? On the one hand you can argue it should and yet what about our new PC? Should they be bound and constrained by a decision of our previous PC? In some ways, at this length of time from the previous game, perhaps it would be better for them to put a line under previous decisions and start afresh. This could be why they opted for a completely new hero with no magic hand and not bound by any ancient prophesy.
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Post by dadithinkimgay on Nov 11, 2021 13:58:49 GMT
There is a similar problem with the Well of Sorrows going forward. It was made to sound like it could be important whether you chose to drink or not. Certainly, it was clear that Mythal could control the drinker but surely that would be far more significant if the Inquisitor drank. In DAI there is an advantage to drinking because you get to read codices that you cannot without it and in Trespasser you can appease the spirits guarding Fen'Harel's sanctuary through the knowledge you gained through the Well. Yet there must be some sort of downside going forward, even if the Inquisitor has been side-lined. Solas even questioned us about what we were going to do with the power of the Well, even if Morrigan drank from it so to my mind we had no control over its use beyond what she would allow us. Thus, you would think the Well of Sorrows choice is going to be important in the Solas plot going forward but I am not confident this will be the case. I hope this is not the case because it seems extremely important to the story, particularly Mythal's. I believe it was going to be featured in the canceled DA2 expansion too. Solas didn't seem to know The Well still existed, so I don't think it was ever considered in his grand scheme of things. Maybe The Well will play a key role in stopping Solas. In a way... wouldn't the whispers be able to inform the drinker about Solas, what his plans might be, where ancient artifacts exist, etc? It just seems too important. And Mythal was very keen on the power being released before she was absorbed by Solas. The thing is, what would even be the point of emphasizing the risk of drinking from The Well if nothing ends up happening? That's just lame. So I'm hoping we see something. To be honest, I'm excited to see what will happen to a Lavellan who drank from the well and romanced Solas. I think that world state will turn out quite interesting to say the least.
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Post by gervaise21 on Nov 11, 2021 18:23:45 GMT
The thing is, what would even be the point of emphasizing the risk of drinking from The Well if nothing ends up happening? Not forgetting how upset Solas is if you drink from it. He emphasises how you will now always be under the control of the being to whom the Well belongs. "You are Mythal's creature now." "Everything you do, whether you know it or not, will be for her." "You have given up part of yourself." Then he goes on to ask what you will do with the power of the Well. Which is odd really, bearing in mind his previous statements, because surely whatever you decide to do, it won't be entirely your own decision? Even if you could argue Mythal is now out of the equation, there are still the collective minds of her priesthood. It is their spirits which speak to you. Cole confirms this when he advises against you drinking. Since they knew Fen'Harel's password, it follows that he was seen as an ally and vice versa or they would never have been entrusted with it. Did they give you that knowledge because they knew you were an ally of his too or because he had somehow communicated with them through the Fade that they should? The implications going forward could be considerable whether you romanced him or not. As it is always a requirement that someone drinks, let's hope that it does have some bearing on the plot. It could be that either Morrigan or the Inquisitor will actively work against the next PC, assuming Mythal's priesthood disapprove of them, or they have some vital information to divulge to aid the PC, because Mythal's priesthood want them to succeed. (The latter though could simply be done through a letter or the communication crystal, so they don't actually have to make an appearance.)
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Post by azarhal on Nov 11, 2021 19:56:31 GMT
The thing is, what would even be the point of emphasizing the risk of drinking from The Well if nothing ends up happening? Not forgetting how upset Solas is if you drink from it. He emphasises how you will now always be under the control of the being to whom the Well belongs. "You are Mythal's creature now." "Everything you do, whether you know it or not, will be for her." "You have given up part of yourself." Then he goes on to ask what you will do with the power of the Well. Which is odd really, bearing in mind his previous statements, because surely whatever you decide to do, it won't be entirely your own decision? It's also possible he lies a lot more than some fans wants to admit and the "You are Mythal's creature now" is a lie just so you don't drink from the Well, because he really doesn't want you to learn things from it...
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Post by colfoley on Nov 11, 2021 20:26:58 GMT
The thing is, what would even be the point of emphasizing the risk of drinking from The Well if nothing ends up happening? Not forgetting how upset Solas is if you drink from it. He emphasises how you will now always be under the control of the being to whom the Well belongs. "You are Mythal's creature now." "Everything you do, whether you know it or not, will be for her." "You have given up part of yourself." Then he goes on to ask what you will do with the power of the Well. Which is odd really, bearing in mind his previous statements, because surely whatever you decide to do, it won't be entirely your own decision? Even if you could argue Mythal is now out of the equation, there are still the collective minds of her priesthood. It is their spirits which speak to you. Cole confirms this when he advises against you drinking. Since they knew Fen'Harel's password, it follows that he was seen as an ally and vice versa or they would never have been entrusted with it. Did they give you that knowledge because they knew you were an ally of his too or because he had somehow communicated with them through the Fade that they should? The implications going forward could be considerable whether you romanced him or not. As it is always a requirement that someone drinks, let's hope that it does have some bearing on the plot. It could be that either Morrigan or the Inquisitor will actively work against the next PC, assuming Mythal's priesthood disapprove of them, or they have some vital information to divulge to aid the PC, because Mythal's priesthood want them to succeed. (The latter though could simply be done through a letter or the communication crystal, so they don't actually have to make an appearance.) Not forgetting how upset Solas is if you drink from it. He emphasises how you will now always be under the control of the being to whom the Well belongs. "You are Mythal's creature now." "Everything you do, whether you know it or not, will be for her." "You have given up part of yourself." Then he goes on to ask what you will do with the power of the Well. Which is odd really, bearing in mind his previous statements, because surely whatever you decide to do, it won't be entirely your own decision? It's also possible he lies a lot more than some fans wants to admit and the "You are Mythal's creature now" is a lie just so you don't drink from the Well, because he really doesn't want you to learn things from it... On that note too, and I admit this is probably a bit far out there, but given that Solas probably imagines that we will be in opposition to his plan he really has no reason to tell us the truth here. And we do not know if he was planning on killing Mythal or not at that time, but what if he was? And then what if he fears the inverse of what seems to be the more accepted theory of the outcome? I propose that he does not fear that Mythal/ him will have control over the Inquisitor in the future but it is at least possible that if there is a connection between the geas that the Inquisitor is put under and the overall collective priesthood of Mythal that he fears that they won't even be able to control her but that the Inquisitor will be able to control them. That in the abscence of Mythal the power of the compulsion would transfer over to the next most powerful being which could easily end up being the Inquisitor and that thus the Inquisitor would gain access to a very powerful force to oppose him in DA 4. Afterall in Tresspasser we saw that knowledge from the well gave her the ability to talk to Mythal's guardian spirits and enlist their aid something else could easily happen. Though I again literally just thought of this could still fit into the whole thing to and he could still technically be telling the truth even then and that by fearing that she has become 'Mythal's creature' may not have anything to do with controlling the Inquisitor in this regard but again that if this theory bears out that the Inquisitor would still be serving Mythal's agenda to oppose him. Though admittedly these are darker motives then I usually assign to Solas. Also the other good thing about this its a very video game theory because it does not create much difference between Morrigan and the Inquisitor drinking the well because whoever drinks the well could just show up at the end of an army of Mythal....creatures?
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Post by magenpie on Nov 11, 2021 22:18:33 GMT
I think the 'Solas might be lying' is really interesting, particularly combined with calling him a 'Trickster God'?
Solas behaves, seemingly anyway, as person of reason, measure and thoughtfulness. He approves all over the place when the Inquisitor is questioning and thoughtful about the world. If his only 'trick' is to imprison the Evanuris, then surely he's a betrayer, a deceiver - close synonym I grant you - but 'trickster'? I mean ok, it's one BIG trick, but only one! To me, trickster implies many small deceptions (just me?) So perhaps he is more than that. A habitual liar, for good or ill, manipulating to achieve ends. I guess lying doesn't automatically mean evil or chaotic? And he likes it when you ASK. He likes chess. He likes a challenge. He loves the Winter Palace because of the intrigue and the sex. He ENJOYS The Game, which is sort of weird for all his sniffy righteousness about some things. Bah I'm waffling. And I've been thinking about OGBs and Fenris (I mean...always but this is different) and Wells etc. What's so infuriating about computer games, is that unlike films, where if someone holds up a pink fluffy teddy bear at some point, YOU KNOW that teddy bear is going to turn up as a plot point later. The temptation to see this in games is really compelling, and I fall/yearn for those beats. But the reality is, long running game narratives are, I think (?) a fairly new thing, development times so long, writer changes a possibility, gaming social climates so changeable that you can't bank on any particular bit of a story making the cut. If only we knew!! *shakes fists at the sky*
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Post by colfoley on Nov 12, 2021 0:20:43 GMT
I think the 'Solas might be lying' is really interesting, particularly combined with calling him a 'Trickster God'?
Solas behaves, seemingly anyway, as person of reason, measure and thoughtfulness. He approves all over the place when the Inquisitor is questioning and thoughtful about the world. If his only 'trick' is to imprison the Evanuris, then surely he's a betrayer, a deceiver - close synonym I grant you - but 'trickster'? I mean ok, it's one BIG trick, but only one! To me, trickster implies many small deceptions (just me?) So perhaps he is more than that. A habitual liar, for good or ill, manipulating to achieve ends. I guess lying doesn't automatically mean evil or chaotic? And he likes it when you ASK. He likes chess. He likes a challenge. He loves the Winter Palace because of the intrigue and the sex. He ENJOYS The Game, which is sort of weird for all his sniffy righteousness about some things. Bah I'm waffling. And I've been thinking about OGBs and Fenris (I mean...always but this is different) and Wells etc. What's so infuriating about computer games, is that unlike films, where if someone holds up a pink fluffy teddy bear at some point, YOU KNOW that teddy bear is going to turn up as a plot point later. The temptation to see this in games is really compelling, and I fall/yearn for those beats. But the reality is, long running game narratives are, I think (?) a fairly new thing, development times so long, writer changes a possibility, gaming social climates so changeable that you can't bank on any particular bit of a story making the cut. If only we knew!! *shakes fists at the sky* 1. I think its worth it to point out that Solas is the Dalish trickster god. And while there is a lot of reason for that and he certainly comes off as not truthful all the time a lot of that basis is the one story of their imprisonment. Solas himself, for isntance, does not view himself as a god so its a pure invention of the Dalish no matter how accurate the appalation might be. 2. Solas does do this thing where he sort of lies by telling the truth or lies by implication, by and large. A lot of what he says is truthful, on some level, but its never the full truth and he does it in such a way where it implies a lie. For instance based on my theory up there he could easily be telling the truth about the Inquisitor being 'Mythal's creature' but it might be in a different way then we are expecting because it is worth keeping in mind the Inquisitor and Solas are currently in opposition to one another. 3. About narrative for games you are pretty much right about that. I mean we've had sort of Halo back in the day and a few other things but pretty much game stories have been episodic, DA is trying to cover new narrative ground in that regard.
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Post by gervaise21 on Nov 12, 2021 7:58:05 GMT
It's also possible he lies a lot more than some fans wants to admit and the "You are Mythal's creature now" is a lie just so you don't drink from the Well, because he really doesn't want you to learn things from it... Except he says this after you have drunk, when it is too late to stop you or any negative impact on you. There is also Cole. If he is around at the time you make the decision he definitely advises against it and I don't think this is to aid Solas' agenda. "You don't want those voices in your head." It is pretty clear that you will be under the collective Will of the priesthood, who will give you such information as suits them and aids their goddess. I propose that he does not fear that Mythal/ him will have control over the Inquisitor in the future but it is at least possible that if there is a connection between the geas that the Inquisitor is put under and the overall collective priesthood of Mythal that he fears that they won't even be able to control her but that the Inquisitor will be able to control them. That in the abscence of Mythal the power of the compulsion would transfer over to the next most powerful being which could easily end up being the Inquisitor The Inquisitor isn't that powerful in their own nature, only through the organisation they lead and the mark. The mark clearly doesn't have any control over the priesthood or influence them any differently than if Morrigan drinks. They also don't help the Inquisitor control the mark to stop it from killing them, even though one assumes they must have had the knowledge to do so. "Only I could have borne the mark and lived", is the claim Solas makes. Of course it may not be true but neither Solas nor the priesthood give them an alternative way of preventing it killing them. Information is only imparted to suit their respective agendas. So it is far more likely that Solas fears the priesthood would end up working against him rather than the Inquisitor would and by being under their control the Inquisitor could inadvertently aid them with this. "Everything you do, whether you know it or not, will be for her." That does sound truly sinister as the Inquisitor could be giving people orders that actually advance Mythal's agenda even though they don't know this is the case. We still don't know what went on precisely in that last meeting between Solas and Flemeth but we do know she shared the goddess' desire for vengeance that would "shake the very heavens". On the face of it, it would seem that Solas shared these goals but possibly not. Her goals may have necessitated releasing the Evanuris, whereas his aim is to prevent it whilst still lowering the Veil. Alternatively, he could have absorbed her because she can then share in his ultimate revenge against the Evanuris. The trouble is we just don't know and neither the Inquisitor, nor the new PC are aware of what happened at that meeting, unless Solas chooses to tell them.
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Post by gervaise21 on Nov 12, 2021 8:16:05 GMT
But the reality is, long running game narratives are, I think (?) a fairly new thing, development times so long, writer changes a possibility, gaming social climates so changeable that you can't bank on any particular bit of a story making the cut. Strangely enough, not with Bioware. Their Baldurs' Gate Series had a long running narrative over several games, although they were careful that the choices you made didn't impact on the overarching plot until the very end, when your choice impacted on you directly going forward but that was the culmination of your story and the differences were only apparent in the epilogue. They also pulled it off with the Mass Effect Trilogy and there some of the choices you made in the first game did have long term implications for the outcome in the third. It is strange to think that was almost 10 years ago now. You are correct in saying that writers change but if, as we were led to believe, there was a particular narrative in mind from the beginning of the saga, then that should be maintained no matter who is actually in charge of the writing. When David Gaider left the company, he claimed the story was only half told, implying that the remainder was already planned out and just needed bringing to the screen. However, once he was no longer lead writer, naturally he had no control over this, so ideas he began may have been quietly dropped. There do seem to have been so many changes in direction during the production cycle of DA4 that who knows how the original story line may have altered as a result. The bare bones of Solas being at the heart of it is still there but other interesting narrative threads that were originally a part of the whole, may have been sacrificed along the way, particularly if divergent choices made them difficult to implement satisfactorily. This is why, whilst I hope this is not the case, I won't be surprised if it turns out to be true. Essentially, because of the long production time between games, I feel it best to approach DA4 as a completely new game and judge it based on its own merits rather than what has or hasn't been carried over from the original series. After all, we have been told there is going to be a completely new PC and they will have no knowledge of anything that has gone before, unless someone tells them, so have no reason to be concerned about things the Inquisitor may or may not have done in the past.
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Post by colfoley on Nov 12, 2021 11:04:27 GMT
It's also possible he lies a lot more than some fans wants to admit and the "You are Mythal's creature now" is a lie just so you don't drink from the Well, because he really doesn't want you to learn things from it... Except he says this after you have drunk, when it is too late to stop you or any negative impact on you. There is also Cole. If he is around at the time you make the decision he definitely advises against it and I don't think this is to aid Solas' agenda. "You don't want those voices in your head." It is pretty clear that you will be under the collective Will of the priesthood, who will give you such information as suits them and aids their goddess. I propose that he does not fear that Mythal/ him will have control over the Inquisitor in the future but it is at least possible that if there is a connection between the geas that the Inquisitor is put under and the overall collective priesthood of Mythal that he fears that they won't even be able to control her but that the Inquisitor will be able to control them. That in the abscence of Mythal the power of the compulsion would transfer over to the next most powerful being which could easily end up being the Inquisitor The Inquisitor isn't that powerful in their own nature, only through the organisation they lead and the mark. The mark clearly doesn't have any control over the priesthood or influence them any differently than if Morrigan drinks. They also don't help the Inquisitor control the mark to stop it from killing them, even though one assumes they must have had the knowledge to do so. "Only I could have borne the mark and lived", is the claim Solas makes. Of course it may not be true but neither Solas nor the priesthood give them an alternative way of preventing it killing them. Information is only imparted to suit their respective agendas. So it is far more likely that Solas fears the priesthood would end up working against him rather than the Inquisitor would and by being under their control the Inquisitor could inadvertently aid them with this. "Everything you do, whether you know it or not, will be for her." That does sound truly sinister as the Inquisitor could be giving people orders that actually advance Mythal's agenda even though they don't know this is the case. We still don't know what went on precisely in that last meeting between Solas and Flemeth but we do know she shared the goddess' desire for vengeance that would "shake the very heavens". On the face of it, it would seem that Solas shared these goals but possibly not. Her goals may have necessitated releasing the Evanuris, whereas his aim is to prevent it whilst still lowering the Veil. Alternatively, he could have absorbed her because she can then share in his ultimate revenge against the Evanuris. The trouble is we just don't know and neither the Inquisitor, nor the new PC are aware of what happened at that meeting, unless Solas chooses to tell them. 1. That is kind of the beauty of it. My theory works just as well even with the Inquisitor being fairly depowered because all it could come down to is the ability to talk to any of Mythal's followers to give them orders and take on the mantle and they could follow it. Sure my recollection on Tresspasser may be a little foggy at this point but this very thing did happen. The Inquisitor was able to use the knowlege of the well to talk to the guardians of the temple and thus they did not attack, they would otherwise if you did not drink from the well. 2. You are making the same mistake that Corypheus did and even the Inquisitor does should you choose that dialogue option. The mark did give them a certain amount of power, sure, controlling rifts, closing rifts, etc...but that was not the source of their power. Their ability to command, to lead, to organize, to inspire, and to act. This is why they were made Inquisitor in the first place and...keeping the above in mind...all they could need to maybe call allies to their cause against Solas when the dust settles. 3. Despite this to you may be right though in this case there are two niggling holes in the theory. What of Mythal if she has been absorbed by Solas? Wouldn't that give him control of the Inquisitor and not the other way around? Indeed this is kind of my fear at this moment but if that were the case and if he were planning on comitting the murder...then why warn the Inquistor about it? Reverse psychology? This also does not seem to account for Morrigan being able to drink from the well. Solas had no real concern about her drinking the well. Sure things could be face value, but then again maybe they aren't.
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Post by gervaise21 on Nov 12, 2021 18:40:56 GMT
1. That is kind of the beauty of it. My theory works just as well even with the Inquisitor being fairly depowered because all it could come down to is the ability to talk to any of Mythal's followers to give them orders and take on the mantle and they could follow it. Sure my recollection on Tresspasser may be a little foggy at this point but this very thing did happen. The Inquisitor was able to use the knowlege of the well to talk to the guardians of the temple and thus they did not attack, they would otherwise if you did not drink from the well. I was never clear exactly why you were able to do this but I assume the priesthood allowed you the knowledge to respond correctly. Possibly that does result from your mind expressing an unconscious desire for the information but I'm not entirely convinced that if the priesthood doesn't feel it is appropriate, they would be obliged to fulfill that desire regardless. Admittedly, Abelas was willing to destroy the Well to prevent it falling into the wrong hands but maybe that was more from the sacrilegious point of view than a fear that the knowledge could be misused against the will of the priesthood. I just feel that if your desire ran contrary to what the priesthood know would be the will of Mythal, then they would refuse you that knowledge. 2. You are making the same mistake that Corypheus did and even the Inquisitor does should you choose that dialogue option. The mark did give them a certain amount of power, sure, controlling rifts, closing rifts, etc...but that was not the source of their power. Their ability to command, to lead, to organize, to inspire, and to act. This is why they were made Inquisitor in the first place and...keeping the above in mind...all they could need to maybe call allies to their cause against Solas when the dust settles. I was never entirely convinced by this. To my mind, you were made leader for quasi-religious reasons because after your "miraculous" survival at Haven and Giselle's singalong, you have been confirmed as the Herald of Andraste, even if you continue to deny it. In any case, simply the ability to lead would hardly be sufficient to impress the priesthood of a goddess into doing whatever you command. As I stress above, they are bound by their service to Mythal just as much as you. So long as you don't require knowledge that runs contrary to the will of their goddess, they will comply but I wouldn't expect them to slavishly follow your orders, particularly as you are bound to her will as well. As Solas points out, for all you know they could feed you information to make you take a certain course of action because they know it is following their goddess' agenda, so you are working for Mythal without even knowing it. So if the priesthood think opposing Solas is fulfilling the will of the goddess, then they will take action accordingly. However, considering they knew and gave you the password to Fen'Harel's sanctuary, it might be assumed that they are more likely to work with the Dread Wolf rather than against him. He was after all Mythal's ally, they know he was not involved in her murder and, if Where the Willows Wail, is anything to go by (the original elven text for which was found at the Temple), they were also aware of the action he took in ancient times. Of course, if Mythal should pop up again in some other body and give a direct order to oppose what Solas currently intends, that is a different matter. It will, however, be the priesthood controlling the Well drinker, not the other way around. 3. Despite this to you may be right though in this case there are two niggling holes in the theory. What of Mythal if she has been absorbed by Solas? Wouldn't that give him control of the Inquisitor and not the other way around? Indeed this is kind of my fear at this moment but if that were the case and if he were planning on comitting the murder...then why warn the Inquistor about it? Reverse psychology? This also does not seem to account for Morrigan being able to drink from the well. Solas had no real concern about her drinking the well. Sure things could be face value, but then again maybe they aren't. Why tell the Inquisitor anything? In Tevinter Nights he claims it was a moment of weakness but that is only true of a friendly Inquisitor, for whom perhaps he did feel some obligation to warn of their impending doom. Yet, he also tells a hostile Inquisitor, just not with such a lengthy exposition or claimed justification for his past or future actions. Maybe the weakness there was his desire to let them know how futile their efforts had been. I must admit, though, if a hostile Inquisitor drank from the Well, the priesthood would know how they felt about Solas and yet apparently they did still give them the password. This still comes back to my idea that they are not controlled so much by what the Inquisitor wants as what they think Mythal would want. I wouldn't say that Solas had no real concern about Morrigan drinking from the Well. From what I recall he was vehemently against it. In fact, his disapproval might have been sufficient to encourage the Inquisitor to drink instead. As PW admits, he actually dropped the ball on that one because whilst Solas says subsequently that he warned you not to drink, actually he didn't. So I was left in a quandary the first time I had to make that decision. On the one hand Solas didn't want to drink himself but on the other hand Solas strongly disapproved of Morrigan being the one to drink and she had been behaving rather shiftily ever since we got to the Temple, holding back information until forced to reveal it, so I was inclined to agree with him that I didn't want her to have control over that knowledge. In the end, it was Cole's warning and my own arcane knowledge that made me decide against drinking myself but without those I would have thought Solas was actively encouraging me to drink. However, in our conversation back at Skyhold it was clear that was not the case, but whether out of genuine concern for the Inquisitor or fear that it could interfere with his plans is anyone's guess. Still, at that point in time he was still working to plan A, which was recover his orb and use it to remove the Veil. His meeting with Flemeth and everything that followed was direct result of the orb being shattered, so he now had to come up with a plan B. Thus it is possible that his previous fear for what Mythal might make you do is no longer an issue for him because he now carries her authority, at least over the spirits of her priesthood. Of course, if that was the case, then it should apply equally to Morrigan, except of course, what Flemeth sent into the eluvian was probably intended for her and may well negate any power that Solas would have over her. In which case, if the Inquisitor drank then it could be Morrigan who now controls you or at least can prevent Solas from controlling you.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Nov 12, 2021 19:12:41 GMT
I doubt Mythal’s will will come into play anymore, considering Solas murdered her. Can’t be controlled by a person who no longer exists. I can see why between that and the Inquisitor’s strength of will and other qualities that has constantly surprised and impressed even ‘gods’ they now ally with them over Solas.
Plus why should we trust Silas’s word on the matter, when he has lied about everything else?
The fact that it is a choice between two people even then had me doubt it would ever actually come into play, just like the OGB.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Nov 12, 2021 19:14:21 GMT
This is why, whilst I hope this is not the case, I won't be surprised if it turns out to be true. Essentially, because of the long production time between games, I feel it best to approach DA4 as a completely new game and judge it based on its own merits rather than what has or hasn't been carried over from the original series. After all, we have been told there is going to be a completely new PC and they will have no knowledge of anything that has gone before, unless someone tells them, so have no reason to be concerned about things the Inquisitor may or may not have done in the past. If so, the only crazy theory would be anything related to BioWare thinking anyone will trust them to tell good or complete stories again.
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Post by colfoley on Nov 12, 2021 20:29:03 GMT
1. That is kind of the beauty of it. My theory works just as well even with the Inquisitor being fairly depowered because all it could come down to is the ability to talk to any of Mythal's followers to give them orders and take on the mantle and they could follow it. Sure my recollection on Tresspasser may be a little foggy at this point but this very thing did happen. The Inquisitor was able to use the knowlege of the well to talk to the guardians of the temple and thus they did not attack, they would otherwise if you did not drink from the well. I was never clear exactly why you were able to do this but I assume the priesthood allowed you the knowledge to respond correctly. Possibly that does result from your mind expressing an unconscious desire for the information but I'm not entirely convinced that if the priesthood doesn't feel it is appropriate, they would be obliged to fulfill that desire regardless. Admittedly, Abelas was willing to destroy the Well to prevent it falling into the wrong hands but maybe that was more from the sacrilegious point of view than a fear that the knowledge could be misused against the will of the priesthood. I just feel that if your desire ran contrary to what the priesthood know would be the will of Mythal, then they would refuse you that knowledge. 2. You are making the same mistake that Corypheus did and even the Inquisitor does should you choose that dialogue option. The mark did give them a certain amount of power, sure, controlling rifts, closing rifts, etc...but that was not the source of their power. Their ability to command, to lead, to organize, to inspire, and to act. This is why they were made Inquisitor in the first place and...keeping the above in mind...all they could need to maybe call allies to their cause against Solas when the dust settles. I was never entirely convinced by this. To my mind, you were made leader for quasi-religious reasons because after your "miraculous" survival at Haven and Giselle's singalong, you have been confirmed as the Herald of Andraste, even if you continue to deny it. In any case, simply the ability to lead would hardly be sufficient to impress the priesthood of a goddess into doing whatever you command. As I stress above, they are bound by their service to Mythal just as much as you. So long as you don't require knowledge that runs contrary to the will of their goddess, they will comply but I wouldn't expect them to slavishly follow your orders, particularly as you are bound to her will as well. As Solas points out, for all you know they could feed you information to make you take a certain course of action because they know it is following their goddess' agenda, so you are working for Mythal without even knowing it. So if the priesthood think opposing Solas is fulfilling the will of the goddess, then they will take action accordingly. However, considering they knew and gave you the password to Fen'Harel's sanctuary, it might be assumed that they are more likely to work with the Dread Wolf rather than against him. He was after all Mythal's ally, they know he was not involved in her murder and, if Where the Willows Wail, is anything to go by (the original elven text for which was found at the Temple), they were also aware of the action he took in ancient times. Of course, if Mythal should pop up again in some other body and give a direct order to oppose what Solas currently intends, that is a different matter. It will, however, be the priesthood controlling the Well drinker, not the other way around. 3. Despite this to you may be right though in this case there are two niggling holes in the theory. What of Mythal if she has been absorbed by Solas? Wouldn't that give him control of the Inquisitor and not the other way around? Indeed this is kind of my fear at this moment but if that were the case and if he were planning on comitting the murder...then why warn the Inquistor about it? Reverse psychology? This also does not seem to account for Morrigan being able to drink from the well. Solas had no real concern about her drinking the well. Sure things could be face value, but then again maybe they aren't. Why tell the Inquisitor anything? In Tevinter Nights he claims it was a moment of weakness but that is only true of a friendly Inquisitor, for whom perhaps he did feel some obligation to warn of their impending doom. Yet, he also tells a hostile Inquisitor, just not with such a lengthy exposition or claimed justification for his past or future actions. Maybe the weakness there was his desire to let them know how futile their efforts had been. I must admit, though, if a hostile Inquisitor drank from the Well, the priesthood would know how they felt about Solas and yet apparently they did still give them the password. This still comes back to my idea that they are not controlled so much by what the Inquisitor wants as what they think Mythal would want. I wouldn't say that Solas had no real concern about Morrigan drinking from the Well. From what I recall he was vehemently against it. In fact, his disapproval might have been sufficient to encourage the Inquisitor to drink instead. As PW admits, he actually dropped the ball on that one because whilst Solas says subsequently that he warned you not to drink, actually he didn't. So I was left in a quandary the first time I had to make that decision. On the one hand Solas didn't want to drink himself but on the other hand Solas strongly disapproved of Morrigan being the one to drink and she had been behaving rather shiftily ever since we got to the Temple, holding back information until forced to reveal it, so I was inclined to agree with him that I didn't want her to have control over that knowledge. In the end, it was Cole's warning and my own arcane knowledge that made me decide against drinking myself but without those I would have thought Solas was actively encouraging me to drink. However, in our conversation back at Skyhold it was clear that was not the case, but whether out of genuine concern for the Inquisitor or fear that it could interfere with his plans is anyone's guess. Still, at that point in time he was still working to plan A, which was recover his orb and use it to remove the Veil. His meeting with Flemeth and everything that followed was direct result of the orb being shattered, so he now had to come up with a plan B. Thus it is possible that his previous fear for what Mythal might make you do is no longer an issue for him because he now carries her authority, at least over the spirits of her priesthood. Of course, if that was the case, then it should apply equally to Morrigan, except of course, what Flemeth sent into the eluvian was probably intended for her and may well negate any power that Solas would have over her. In which case, if the Inquisitor drank then it could be Morrigan who now controls you or at least can prevent Solas from controlling you. The priesthood didn't give us anything. The Well of Sorrows amongst other things is the access to knoweledge, the cummlative knowledge of Mythal, her followers, her servants, it is essentially a library. And heck I do belive it is implied it is this that puts one under the compulsion to serve which has interesting implications ...but it gives us knowledge and gives us advice throughout the game including, apparently, the knowledge to turn into a dragon if one were to have the ability... And apparently the gift of language. Because *blows off cobwebs* when we were at Fen'harel's hide out we were able to tell the spirit guardians to back off. Likely since Mythal and Solas were friends she had knowledge of a sign/ counter sign and then hence the Inquisitor had that same knowledge. (as another rather interesting aside actually it could be this is what Solas fears because now the Inquisitor has knowledge of him as well...irony.) And since the guardians were rather simple spirits they had no way of really knowing that we weren't connected to Mythal and let us into their facility without attacking or bothering us. Again such knowledge of inner workings of Elven language and signs and counter signs could be quite useful in co opting any Ancient Elven forces to our own side. Granted you are right that of course if any specific sentient life form comes along and they believe that our orders would be contrary to Mythal's agenda then they wouldn't obey but its not really a 100% given that this is the case. While you are right that the Inquisitor was put in their position because of quasi religious reasons and by a religious organization, though one that was opposed to and opposed by the ruling church, it also misses the mark (forgive the pun) and is a bit of an over simplification of what the Inquisitor did. -The Inquisitor starts off as a prisoner of Chantry forces and is believed to be blamed for the Divine's death... and then the Inquisitor acts to work with those forces, clear their name, and close the initial rift point thus delaying the Breach even if by a littile. -The Inquisitor because of Envy's interest in them and the whole mark thing is invited to a summit with the Templars to try and win their support... the Inquisitor then prevents Envy from taking their shape, assuming control of the Inquisition at that point in time, and then makes an in the moment decision on what to do with the Templars. -Then the Inquisition is attacked at Haven by Corypheus and the rogue mages now under his control, all of his forces come to get the mark back and oppose the Inquisitor... But the Inquisitor realizing how important this information is and how Cory would likely focus on her instead of the rest of the Inquisition decides to become a distraction...essentially sacrificing themselves for the rest of the Inquisition to survive. They then *miraculiously* survive that ordeal and return to the Inquisition and get crowned Inquisitor because of their actions. And this is to say nothing of all the other minor ways the Inquisitor led the efforts of the Inquisition. In the Hinterlands, helping out the refugees, being the public face which helped meet the Templars and Mages. Being the ambassador which met with the Iron Bull and recruited him and Blackwall into the organization. As Mother Giselle points out these events could easily be viewed as divine providence as divine providence on almost any level can be used to explain any mundane event that goes the way of the person doing said event...however from a practical standpoint and from an on the ground standpoint, as Cassandra argues, its not because of the mark that they were being made Inquisitor but because of what they did on behalf of the Inquisition. They may have been put into these positions because of the mark or because the Maker ordained it but they still had to rise to the challenge, they still had to act, they still had to make decisions. Because what if they had failed? Well they would have died for one thing and that would have been that but the end slides of each one of the failed main quests makes it clear what would have happened. Envy would have assumed her shape and taken over the Inquisition, and Corypheus would have ruled the world unabaited.
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azarhal
N6
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 7,966 Likes: 22,000
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azarhal
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Sept 9, 2016 12:15:16 GMT
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azarhal
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by azarhal on Nov 12, 2021 20:37:46 GMT
I doubt Mythal’s will will come into play anymore, considering Solas murdered her. Flemythal had an Horcrux to survive the Warden killing her in DAO and she sent something through the Eluvian before Solas killed her. She's not done, she just might not look like Flemeth anymore.
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