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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 12, 2022 9:10:46 GMT
And I also wonder if the reason Solas was able to trap both the Evanuris and the Forgotten Ones supposedly separately, while escaping himself, is because he made copies of himself to lure each group to their prison while the original finished the veil. Perhaps those copies are the "leg" he gnawed off? Perhaps he became weaker for splitting his power up like that? Perhaps the wolf he faces off with in the dread wolf Rises mural is his copy/spilt off portion. That would be very much in the Voldemort way of doing things, except with the pieces of the soul being split into actual beings instead of attached to objects. Still, considering we have had time travel in Thedas essentially explained with "it's time magic, go for it", anything is possible since the limitations we previously thought applied to magic were really only a lack of understanding by Circle mages.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 12, 2022 9:21:03 GMT
I more or less thought the same thing when I first made the connection. Makes you wonder if the Seeker tradition was adopted from the traditions of Andraste's barbarian clan. After all, it would make sense for the first formal Seekers to adopt something that came from their prophet's culture, no? Heck, maybe Andraste was a Seeker/Spirit Warrior herself, and thus would explain the blur between warrior and mage that we see in some of her depictions. Spirit warrior or Augur, there was definitely some strong association with spirit magic that the southern Chantry either weren't aware of or deliberately suppressed. On the other hand, the Imperial Chantry have always maintained she was a mage. I don't think this was made up after the schism but something recorded in their archives. The faith started in Tevinter with Hessarian and if anyone should be able to spot another mage it would be him. I've long maintained that the reason they burnt Andraste was that they didn't want a spirit reviving her, which they knew was entirely possible but particularly if they already suspected a formal link with a spirit. As for being a proto-Seeker, well that is possible too considering there is a cross over between what a Seeker can do with the blood of mages and Templars via the lyrium and the blood mage spell haemorrage. I don't know if it is relevant at this stage because they are changing lore all the time but the sword she gave to Shartan, Glandivalis, had the random ability to affect the mind of your opponent, again like a blood mage. The sword came from her mother and who knows where she got it from but Andraste certainly couldn't have been ignorant of what it could do. She gave it to Shartan as her champion so he could use it in the defense of freedom. Somewhat ironic for a sword that controls the mind.
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Post by azarhal on Jun 12, 2022 12:27:35 GMT
Ah yes, Glandivalis, the sword the Chantry should have hid instead of letting it get stuck in the "hide" of a Pride demon called Hybris (arrogance) while he was getting bound under Kirkwall. Also, the description was that the sword enslaved people, max irony. It would sound like Tevinter propaganda against Andraste/Shartan if it wasn't that the sword actually does it. Andraste's maternal side were Ciriane, so I suspect they looted the sword from either ancient elves or Tevinter.
By the way, I wonder if "bounding entities" to trap them is a practice that ended up forgotten (in Southern Thedas at least), as nobody ever propose it to deal with them. Instead we go around unbounding them to kill them in all three DA games...and they aren't all demons, one is a dragon. Oh and I think unbounding them is bad, most are Pride Demons. Maybe they are pieces of a bigger Pride Demon.
About Spirit Warriors, that spec always annoyed me. Not in term of gameplay or lore, but in term of us never meeting a real one (excluding Seekers if we consider them that). Justice was a spirit who took over what is basically a corpse, so not a real Spirit Warrior. Fenris is like a fake version using Lyrium instead of a spirit. We don't even meet any in Jaws of Hakkon where it would have made sense considering the Avaar's relationship with spirits. I feel cheated (it's one of my favorite spec).
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 12, 2022 13:37:06 GMT
About Spirit Warriors, that spec always annoyed me. Not in term of gameplay or lore, but in term of us never meeting a real one (excluding Seekers if we consider them that). Justice was a spirit who took over what is basically a corpse, so not a real Spirit Warrior. Fenris is like a fake version using Lyrium instead of a spirit. We don't even meet any in Jaws of Hakkon where it would have made sense considering the Avaar's relationship with spirits. I feel cheated (it's one of my favorite spec). I'm really hoping that we may meet a genuine Spirit Warrior next game. Either as a class in Tevinter (probably with a Tevene sounding name) or a warrior associated with the Mortalitasi, which would make sense, or perhaps someone from Rivain, which would tie in with their acceptance of Seers. You are right that it was odd that we never met one among the Avvar, although the leader of the Jaws would qualify, I think, had his ritual succeeded (he wasn't a mage was he?) The Seekers were doubly annoying because Cassandra's spec was basically a Templar when they are definitely meant to have their own unique powers, even if they share some others with the Templars, and it is obvious that they come from association with a spirit of the fade, just as Spirit Warriors do. It strikes me that properly implemented a Seeker/Spirit Warrior could be very useful against Solas. They cannot be possessed, are immune to mind control, which I assume includes a Dreamer trying to control them through the Fade, and can use the lyrium in the blood of an enemy against them, either to paralyse or to kill (although Cassandra says the latter is rare). Still being able to use something from a distance against an ancient elf, with a lot of magic (lyrium) in their blood, might come in handy, if nothing else to prevent him from using his petrify spell on you.
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Post by azarhal on Jun 12, 2022 14:21:39 GMT
About Spirit Warriors, that spec always annoyed me. Not in term of gameplay or lore, but in term of us never meeting a real one (excluding Seekers if we consider them that). Justice was a spirit who took over what is basically a corpse, so not a real Spirit Warrior. Fenris is like a fake version using Lyrium instead of a spirit. We don't even meet any in Jaws of Hakkon where it would have made sense considering the Avaar's relationship with spirits. I feel cheated (it's one of my favorite spec). I'm really hoping that we may meet a genuine Spirit Warrior next game. Either as a class in Tevinter (probably with a Tevene sounding name) or a warrior associated with the Mortalitasi, which would make sense, or perhaps someone from Rivain, which would tie in with their acceptance of Seers. You are right that it was odd that we never met one among the Avvar, although the leader of the Jaws would qualify, I think, had his ritual succeeded (he wasn't a mage was he?) The Seekers were doubly annoying because Cassandra's spec was basically a Templar when they are definitely meant to have their own unique powers, even if they share some others with the Templars, and it is obvious that they come from association with a spirit of the fade, just as Spirit Warriors do. It strikes me that properly implemented a Seeker/Spirit Warrior could be very useful against Solas. They cannot be possessed, are immune to mind control, which I assume includes a Dreamer trying to control them through the Fade, and can use the lyrium in the blood of an enemy against them, either to paralyse or to kill (although Cassandra says the latter is rare). Still being able to use something from a distance against an ancient elf, with a lot of magic (lyrium) in their blood, might come in handy, if nothing else to prevent him from using his petrify spell on you. The leader of the Jaws was turning into a Revenant when he offered to be Hakkon's vessel via his ritual (because his body couldn't handle it from my understanding), I guess we can see that as a failed version of a Spirit Warrior. And yes, Cassandra having the Templar spec in DAI was super annoying. Although, the strangest part is that what she explains of Seeker's abilities to the Inquisitor and her banter about them to Solas don't match. Solas don't seems to see a difference between Seekers and Templars abilities in the banter. It's like Cassandra is pretending to be a Templar in-story. I wonder if the explanation she gave to the Inquisitor was a late revision of the Seekers abilities, but it was too late to change the rest of the banters/custom spec.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 13, 2022 8:14:10 GMT
Although, the strangest part is that what she explains of Seeker's abilities to the Inquisitor and her banter about them to Solas don't match. Solas don't seems to see a difference between Seekers and Templars abilities in the banter. It's like Cassandra is pretending to be a Templar in-story. I wonder if the explanation she gave to the Inquisitor was a late revision of the Seekers abilities, but it was too late to change the rest of the banters/custom spec. I suppose you could argue that she didn't want to reveal to Solas that her abilities differed from those of a Templar. Clearly he was fascinated as to how she acquired them and would likely have enlightened her as to what actually happened if he had known about the spirit being involved. However, prior to acquiring the Seeker manual she didn't know that herself. All she knew that she had gone into a period of intense religious meditation followed by the moment of supreme elation at the end. I doubt she would have wanted to tell too many people other than the Inquisitor when she discovered the truth. I wonder if Solas suspected something different when he says to her "Who, if not the Maker of this world, could grant such a gift?" When Cassandra responds saying "Do you believe in the Maker?" His answer: "I'm always open to new ideas." That is classic equivocation on Solas' part, leaving both Cassandra and the player believing he has no definite opinion on the matter, when the fact is that anyone who has been around as long as him and takes such an interest in the spirit world, ought to know whether or not the Maker is real. I suppose it is also possible that Seekers can replicate Templar powers in addition to those that are exclusively those of the Seeker. It is just that they don't need lyrium to do this. Now it is Cassandra who specifically asks Solas how Templars nullify magic. His explanation fits both Templars and Seekers, as Cassandra seems to assume since she applies it to herself. It is entirely likely that the method is the same, it is just the power utilised that is different. Both still rely on the strength of will of the person using it and long years of training to do so effectively. So it wasn't that Cassandra should not have demonstrated the Templar-like powers that she did but that she couldn't do the other one she spoke about, setting the lyrium aflame in the blood of mages and Templars to paralyse them. Naturally immunity to possession and mind control is a passive ability and since it is present from the moment you become a Seeker, should not be shown as an ability acquired after the event.
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Post by fairdragon on Jun 13, 2022 11:36:35 GMT
And I also wonder if the reason Solas was able to trap both the Evanuris and the Forgotten Ones supposedly separately, while escaping himself, is because he made copies of himself to lure each group to their prison while the original finished the veil. Perhaps those copies are the "leg" he gnawed off? Perhaps he became weaker for splitting his power up like that? Perhaps the wolf he faces off with in the dread wolf Rises mural is his copy/spilt off portion. That would be very much in the Voldemort way of doing things, except with the pieces of the soul being split into actual beings instead of attached to objects. Still, considering we have had time travel in Thedas essentially explained with "it's time magic, go for it", anything is possible since the limitations we previously thought applied to magic were really only a lack of understanding by Circle mages. I found the explanation that she takes on other bodies definitely better. i find it very boring that she split her souls and can be anywhere.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 13, 2022 17:36:39 GMT
I found the explanation that she takes on other bodies definitely better. i find it very boring that she split her souls and can be anywhere. It did seem to be a rather convenient way to explain how she was able to survive our encounter in DAO if we decide to kill her. The stupid part was, why didn't they just have Mythal raise her back up again, since that would clearly have been possible? That would then have been consistent with the narrative if we didn't choose to fight her. Clearly Flemeth's body was probably reaching the limits of what could be sustained by the spirit within her, so it also made sense that she would wish for a next host at some point. The amulet raised a whole load of problems and conjectures such as we are now having. Not the least of which was the fact that if we didn't kill Flemeth, what became of the other Flemeth back in Ferelden? Did the amulet also act as a teleporter? That seems the only explanation considering she said she wished to be smuggled into the Freemarches, as though she wanted to escape tracking by someone. Then she spoke of keeping an appointment with someone. Who exactly? Still, the numerous loose ends in DA2 can be accounted for by the fact it was a rushed game. The unanswered questions from DAI are a different story. For a starter; how did summoning her to her altar work? Apparently she would seem able to come and go from the Fade at will. So was she a mortal woman with an indwelling spirit or was she now just wholly spirit able to take on mortal form and able to pass through the Veil at will? How come she was able to stay physically in the Fade without the Anchor? It was as though Flemeth could now do all sorts of things that in theory should not have been possible and yet we are never told why that should be. If Mythal granted her such power, why did she bother living in a small hut in the Korcari Wilds? I wonder if we will ever get satisfactory answers to this.
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Post by ellehaym on Jun 16, 2022 13:31:50 GMT
This is about DA: Absolution
We see the moon there is unusually big compared to all the other times we've seen it. So it made me thin: what if it's actually getting closer to Thedas?
Mythal was implied to have created at least one of Thedas moons so maybe there might be something there that Solas or somebody wants?
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Post by kalreegar on Jun 16, 2022 14:16:15 GMT
We will face Solas around the mid-game. We will succeed in stopping his plan and prevent the destruction of the Fade (we may even be able to strengthen it via qunari magic) BUT in the process the evanuris will manage to break free from their prison. The second part of the game will be focus on dealing with (at least, some of) the evanuris, possibly by allying with solas and the Tevinter Magisterium.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 16, 2022 14:31:38 GMT
We see the moon there is unusually big compared to all the other times we've seen it. So it made me thin: what if it's actually getting closer to Thedas? Mythal was implied to have created at least one of Thedas moons so maybe there might be something there that Solas or somebody wants?This was also being speculated on the Absolution thread. This was my suggestion there: Have we ever seen the moon from Tevinter? May be it does look bigger from there. Someone also mentioned that Thedas has two moons (it must have been in a codex somewhere), so may be they had formed a conjunction in the sky, making it look like one big moon. This was a theory advanced in our world for the star of Bethlehem; it was really a conjunction of Saturn and Jupiter. So a similar thing could have happened with the moons in Thedas, making one really big bright moon. Alternatively, Mythal is associated with the moon in Dalish lore, so may be there is a significance in that. Thinking about this further, I'm not entirely convinced she actually created the moon unless you believe that in the Thedas universe the moon post dated the creation of the world and Elgar'nan literally fought the sun. I'm fairly certain both these elements in the Dalish legend are symbolic of something else. In the rhyme about Mythal in relation to the dwarves in Trespasser it says: "Never yours the sun, forever." If we assume that the sun that Elgar'nan fought was a titan, then in the legend, Mythal caused it to sleep in the earth, after which it would seem she performed some sort of magic on the dwarves that severed their connection with the titan, leaving them only with a vague memory of the Stone. Solas calls Varric "child of Stone", which I take to mean that he knows the Stone was something tangible, since Varric never associates himself with the Stone as a surface dwarf. In the battle with the Sun, its blood was said to have been shed across the sky, forming the stars. I think this refers to outcrops of lyrium which were formed from the blood of the titan shed in the battle. Of course, none of the above explains the large moon in the trailer. I suppose another answer could be that the presence of the Veil reduces the size of the moon in the sky and so if it is getting bigger, that is an indication that the Veil is starting to weaken.
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Post by Absafraginlootly on Jun 17, 2022 8:48:04 GMT
Have we ever seen the moon from Tevinter? May be it does look bigger from there. Someone also mentioned that Thedas has two moons (it must have been in a codex somewhere) The only reference to Thedas having two moons I know of is the description of Thedas holidays in WoT which is also in this bioware blog blog.bioware.com/2012/12/25/thedosian-holidays/I don't know of any in game codexes about it, combined with its lack of visibility in the sky in game makes me wonder if it's canon or an idea they've scraped. If it is canon then i guess one of the moons could have a wider orbit making it not visible most of the time. If that's the case then maybe it's appearance coincides with the week of Satinalia.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 17, 2022 17:59:36 GMT
I don't know of any in game codexes about it, combined with its lack of visibility in the sky in game makes me wonder if it's canon or an idea they've scraped. I wouldn't take anything from WoT or WoT2 as canon to be honest. I've bought both books and this is why I get so annoyed when the writers ignore what was said there, so clearly they don't regard it as canon. Take altering the name of Qarinus to Ventus. The former was the name of one of the three ancient tribal kingdoms that combined to form the Tevinter Imperium; it appears on the map by that name and in Dorian's biography as the location of his family's estate; plus the War Table mission connected with Maevaris is called "Our friend in Qarinus". Dorian also maintains that his people value buildings from antiquity, so I would imagine that would also apply to a highly significant ancient name. Yet the current writers chose to ignore all this and claim that it was renamed, presumably in recent years, to commemorate a major victory over the Qun, although they later admitted the real reason was that some new members of the team found it confusing. If it was the 'Q', why not simply change it to a 'K' or a 'C'? That way the name would sound the same and the variation in spelling could be accounted for by regional differences or some such. Much better than changing the entire name to something so bland and with no connection to antiquity. There are multiple inconsistencies even within the same book in the case of WoT2, whilst contradictions have arisen with regard to certain entries in WoT in later games. So I wouldn't be surprised if the design team for the landscape in the game aren't even aware there are meant to be two moons, as this was something the writer of WoT came up with on their own and the teams working on the game weren't informed. Your explanation for why it may only appear at one time in the year is as good a reason as any for its absence at other times. Still, I doubt the people working on the Netflix series are aware of the two moons, so my idea of a conjunction is probably a non starter. In fact, I checked back and the moon appears very large in the Hissing Wastes, so apart from the oddity that it always seems perpetual night there, it would seem that as you move further north the moon does appear larger in the sky.
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Post by dayze on Sept 22, 2022 21:44:56 GMT
Crazy Theory 1:
The image of the crow assassin with a mask and bow makes me think of the "Cult of the Masked Andraste", centered around hunting rituals.
Is it possible the crows are an "Andrastian" cult or The Cult of the Masked Andraste itself? Hunting could be a euphemism for carrying out assassinations....
Crazy Theory 2:
Ash Warriors have a connection to Ash Wraiths?
Both have Ash in their name, Ash Wraiths go through a ritual to become what they are, no indication they retain their identity and spend the rest of their existence serving Andraste/The Cult.
Ash Warriors lose all connections and history, legal, illegal or otherwise and spend the rest of their life running around doing heroic acts for free, serving others/the greater good.
Crazy Theory 3:
Here there be Snakes; Lake Calenhad according to legend came about via a battle between a giant snake and a titan or something like that. Before that it was known as a place you could drink from and attain wisdom, like Mythal's pool in DAI.
Mythal was also known to transform into a giant snake on occasion wasn't she?
In general I'm guessing that Giant Snakes are going to be to the Earth/Underground like Dragons are to the sky and the scaled ones will be their equivalent of the Kossith.
Crazy Theory 4:
The Elven gods created the blight, or specifically that Goddess that went around creating all the weird animals and monsters.
Looking at the blight you can kind of see a cross of species affect going on, dwarves and Qunari end up with some gorilla dna happening, then in Awakenings all the children with their insect/DNA mixed in, then there were the tentacles of the mother....how after damage they coiled up almost plant like.
Maybe she found out through some method or other that the void made mixing creatures easier for some reason.
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Post by dayze on Sept 22, 2022 21:57:52 GMT
Here's a thought that whatever happened to him really did make him immortal but how we killed him was like how one 'kills' a spirit. Something new will form just not quite like what had existed before. On maybe a more meta note I think its safe to say though from whatever happened to Corypheus did essentially defang him and leave him...neutralized...whatever else he may be up to. But in the end maybe they didn't want to fully close the door on him and give us the possibility that they could bring him back, leave themselves a small out within the lore which could become relevant if ever needed. I suppose there are a few possibilities for his return, the first is some random darkspawn like the Disciple is hanging around in the fade and Cory could take over his body. The second he ended up ported to the dark city and jailed in some form or another, or is hanging out on the throne bored. The third might be that sending him to the fade could create a scenario like the DLC for DAII were he impacts people's thoughts and dreams of all who bear the taint in some way.
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Post by fairdragon on Oct 5, 2022 9:20:59 GMT
I have wondered though, if the Creator gods and Old Gods are the same, then Dirthamen, the Keeper of Secrets, would be more in keeping with Dumat, the God of Silence. Dirthamen is even depicted with his hands over his mouth, so it is easy to see how later humans coming across this in ruins would think him the God of Silence. like Greece and Rome mythology
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Post by xerrai on Oct 6, 2022 2:24:04 GMT
Crazy Theory 1: The image of the crow assassin with a mask and bow makes me think of the "Cult of the Masked Andraste", centered around hunting rituals. Is it possible the crows are an "Andrastian" cult or The Cult of the Masked Andraste itself? Hunting could be a euphemism for carrying out assassinations.... I don't know if this was changed later on in the series, but it was to my understanding that the Crows actually were once affiliated with the Chantry. Although back then the only description we got was how some monks assassinated an evil duke by poisoning him with herbs that were cultivated in their church. It doesn't quite match up with the more active 'hunter' aspect from Masked Andraste, but then again, we never got a date or time on when that duke assassination took place. Depending on how early in history it was, the abbey described in the story could very well have been influenced by a different sect of Andrastianism.
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Post by gervaise21 on Oct 6, 2022 8:36:30 GMT
I don't know if this was changed later on in the series, but it was to my understanding that the Crows actually were once affiliated with the Chantry. That was my understanding too, although I'm not sure when the writers decided to add this aspect to their history, since this story was never given in DAO and does not appear in WoT either. However, I suppose it could be argued there were hints at it in the fact that Antiva is said to be a very devout nation as a whole and even Zevran maintains that he is a believer. This would actually tie in with the Mafia vibes since the Godfather film emphasised this apparent contradiction between the professed faith of their leaders and their morality. Since none of the rulers in Thedas, or the laws of the nations, give any tangible respect to the moral code of Andraste contained in the Chant, this is actually less jarring than in the real world. The Crows also seem another example, along with the Seekers of Truth, Templars, etc, of how an organisation that started out with the best of intentions would become corrupted over time, particularly if they used morally questionable methods to begin with. Depending on how early in history it was, the abbey described in the story could very well have been influenced by a different sect of Andrastianism. I would agree that just because a group shows some similarities to another group on the other side of Thedas, does not necessarily mean they are connected. I have never been clear about the Church of "Masked Andraste" but aren't they another cult that was totally separate from the Orlesian Chantry? Likely they only survived because of their remoteness from Val Royeaux, just like the cult of Andraste in Haven. By contrast, the monks that were the precursors to the Crows were part of the official religion associated with the Chantry in Orlais and therefore could be regarded as an offshoot from it. This would explain why the Chantry never condemned their actions in the beginning, because they were happy so long as they remained faithful to the Chantry, and eventually the Crows had so much power in Antivan society the local clergy felt it expedient to say nothing, even when they should have done so.
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Post by fairdragon on Oct 6, 2022 8:43:40 GMT
In other words, I don't think this is a coincidence at all that they meet under the eluvian or that one of the last scenes in the main game is this: I agree to this sentence. What I find most interesting is that she apologizes to him. What is she really up to. She have a plan and we definitely see her in DADW. I think she say sorry old friend, because she betrayal him. 1. She know what will happen and that this isn't good for Solas. or 2. He doesn't get what he think he has got.
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Post by azarhal on Oct 6, 2022 12:44:41 GMT
I'm pretty sure it's mentioned somewhere that the Crows started as a "branch" of the Chantry or Andrastian cult, because I kind of remember that too. I have never been clear about the Church of "Masked Andraste" but aren't they another cult that was totally separate from the Orlesian Chantry? Likely they only survived because of their remoteness from Val Royeaux, just like the cult of Andraste in Haven. The "Masked Andrate" cult sound like local belief/rites that mixed itself with Chantry dogma so it could survive or so the local populace would convert. It's how the Roman Empire were converting population they invaded back in the days. They merged local myths and gods and kept the most popular holidays (just changed the wrapping for it over time).
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Post by dayze on Oct 6, 2022 16:52:17 GMT
And I also wonder if the reason Solas was able to trap both the Evanuris and the Forgotten Ones supposedly separately, while escaping himself, is because he made copies of himself to lure each group to their prison while the original finished the veil. Perhaps those copies are the "leg" he gnawed off? Perhaps he became weaker for splitting his power up like that? Perhaps the wolf he faces off with in the dread wolf Rises mural is his copy/spilt off portion. That would be very much in the Voldemort way of doing things, except with the pieces of the soul being split into actual beings instead of attached to objects. Still, considering we have had time travel in Thedas essentially explained with "it's time magic, go for it", anything is possible since the limitations we previously thought applied to magic were really only a lack of understanding by Circle mages. It could also be a Lady of The Forest/Witherfang/Zatharian scenario as well. With Solas even functioning as the Zatharian part of that triad, Witherfang as The Dread Wolf, honestly on some level LoTF reminds me of how the archdemon works so I have questioned if were-wolves were some pre-cursor towards attempting to make a quick growing race of soldiers by the elves before they moved on to trying that with the darkspawn and the arch-demons. Also makes me think about what we've seen about DA4, in one of the trailers the Darkspawn wields an axe that looks almost "grown", kind of in the style of elven axes, there's art of a grey warden confronting what seems to be an ogre with roots growing out of its arms. Than looking at the image with the two main big bads hovering over Cory and Meredith, the non-sea based one seems to almost have tree roots instead of tentacles like it's opposition. So Darkspawn/Red Lyrium and a Silvan as the big bad/secondary focus?
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Post by dayze on Oct 6, 2022 17:39:08 GMT
Thinking about local rituals/religions being incorporated into the chantry; kind of makes me wonder if that's where the Seeker's come from and why the Fereldan Templars differ from the Tevinter ones.
Fereldan is more backwater than a lot of the other countries going by Vivianne they seem to have the typical disrespect of local people's and custom's that bigger city cultures can have.
Maybe the Fereldan Chantry picked up some techniques from the Chasind, Claynne and Dalish that the Tevinters were too proud to consider anything more than "superstition" because no way some hedge mage knows something they don't.
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Post by gervaise21 on Oct 7, 2022 8:24:56 GMT
Thinking about local rituals/religions being incorporated into the chantry; kind of makes me wonder if that's where the Seeker's come from and why the Fereldan Templars differ from the Tevinter ones. The Jaws of Hakkon explains their origins, which had already been given to a large extent in codices on the first Inquisition. During the period between the death of Andraste, the withdrawal of Tevinter's influence from the south and the rise of Drakon and his "unification" of the tribes into his empire (which to some extent brought it back again minus the magic, since his family's origins lay in Tevinter), there was a period of considerable unrest. Whilst nominally the south was under the control of Maferath and later his sons, to a large extent their authority was undermined when the story of Maferath's betrayal was revealed and then the constant betrayal between the siblings. In the absence of a single figure of respect to maintain order and protect the people, chaos ensued, leaving the ordinary folk in constant danger from corrupt nobles, dangerous cults and maleficarum. So, a group of devout individuals came together in order to preserve Andraste's legacy and ensure the safety of the common people from these threats. There was also a similar group among the elves of the Dales, an offshoot of the Emerald Knights, called the Fade Hunters, who specialised in protecting the people from maleficarum and demons. It is said that the Seekers of Truth were very even handed in dispensing justice fairly no matter what your status in society, according to the moral code of Andraste, which likely didn't endear them to the nobility of what became Orlais, who always seemed to think they were above these strictures. It was probably a source of tension with Drakon because of the methods he used in uniting the tribes and "simplifying" the faith but, I assume, they must have accepted his claim of being inspired by a vision from Andraste, which is why he was eventually able to bring them under the Chantry's control. He used his friend Ameridan to do this, first getting him accepted as leader of the Inquisition and then submitting to his rule, which the others apparently agreed to because they trusted Ameridan. It seems likely that prior to joining the Inquisition, he may well have been a Fade Hunter. Meanwhile, over in Ferelden, Drakon had no influence and for many years they followed their own version of Andrastrianism, so did not have Seekers or Templars. Instead, they had the Ash Warriors, a group we briefly meet before the Battle of Ostagar in DAO, during which I assume they were largely wiped out as we never hear of them again, apart from additional detail about them given in an item pack associated with DA2. Their group had formed many years prior to Andraste in honour of Luthias Dwarfson but were then converted to faith in the Maker by their own prophet, Gelgennig, in order to complete the work that had been left undone by her death. They were not connected with the Orlesian Chantry as they pre-dated its formation, and they did not accept their Chant of Light. The Chantry's version of the faith only started to predominate in Ferelden because of Calenhad as they supported his claim to kingship over the whole of the area that is now known as Ferelden. For some reason, the Ash Warriors were happy to allow this and also supported the monarchy thereafter, which is when the Circle system was consolidated in Ferelden and presumably the Templars started to operate there in force. The relationship of Tevinter to the Orlesian Chantry has always been something of a puzzle to me. Hessarian adopted faith in the Maker as the official religion of the Imperium only 10 years after the death of Andraste, so some 150 years before the Chantry was established in the south. It was he who first set up the Circle system as a way of training mages to serve the Imperium according to the moral code of his religion. Whilst he used eradication of Old God worship as a way of eliminating his political rivals, many Altus families did support him and so it seems unlikely that he was ever against the use of magic or removing mages from society. Rather he seemed to encourage the elevation of non-mages to equal positions of power, at least in religion. Thus, I have assumed that many of the ideas that Drakon introduced into his Chantry were probably based on what he knew of Tevinter's version of the faith, including the idea that the aristocracy rule by divine right and there should be only one version of the faith across his empire. What I find harder to understand is why, on hearing of the formation of the Orlesian Chantry, Tevinter were at pains to be recognised by the southern establishment rather than the other way around, even to the extent of separating Church and State by removing the Archon as head of the religion in Tevinter, as had previously been the case. This always seemed odd to me when Tevinter's version of the faith was far older and more firmly established than the south, so why would they feel the need for recognition by the Orlesian Chantry, the religion of a rival empire to their own. I can only think there must have been pressure from within their own clergy, possibly among the Soporati members, and so the others went along with it to avoid a politically damaging schism. What is clear, though, is that is all they adopted, and the Seekers of Truth and Templars never became established in the Imperium or, if they were at one time, they were eradicated/ejected at the time of the later break between the two Chantries. Hence, the current organisation retaining the name of Imperial Templars but really being just the police force of the State with none of the powers of their southern counterparts.
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Post by fairdragon on Oct 11, 2022 8:41:00 GMT
It's implied that Mythal and Elgar'nan both ascended to godhood by defeating the Titans, and since Geldaraun's codex mentions being against their godhood, I'd say that the Forgotten Ones came after the war with the Titans. I don't agree. I have a theory. "In retaliation, Elgar'nan threw the sun down from the sky, and only later relented because of Mythal's intervention." linkFor a long time I asked myself why Mythal should intervene here. And i thought of the following. If the earth are the Titans, than the Sun is a symbol for a different group of beeings. And if Mythal intervene for this group, she musst be connected to them somehow. "Slowly. It started with a war." Maybe this war is the fight between the sun and Elgar'nan. linkSo if Mythal is connected with the sun in a way that she is important enough to her not to die, there are only two option in my option. 1 old good. 2 forgotten one. "Eventually Elgar'nan threw the sun down from the sky and buried him in a deep abyss created by the land's sorrow." I think they may be connected with the Deep Roads. The terms "Void" and "Abyss" seem to be interchangeable and the latter can refer to the Fade or the Deep Roads. If Andruil didn't go hunting them in the part of the Fade known as the Void, then possibly it was in the Deep Roads. May be they used some sort of strange magic on her or it was even the Forgotten Ones who first discovered red lyrium and how to use it as a weapon, which explains why they were also linked with malice and disease. The elves refer to the place where the Blight originated as Banalhan (the place of Nothing or Void) but what if it also meant "the place of the Forgotten Ones". if these words mean the same thing then i draw the following connection. Sun = forgotten one = corrupted high dragon and if the corrupted high dragon are the old goods, then they too. Or the corrupted high dragon are are in truth the forgotten ones. I'm sorry if I've posted this theory here before somewhere.
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Post by fairdragon on Oct 11, 2022 9:11:58 GMT
I do believe that was how elves first came to be. Fade (Mind) + Titan (Body) = Sentient beings. I agree. Sun [forgotten ones (spirits)] + Earth [Titan (lyriumbody)] = Elgar'nan first born. Mythal walked out of the sea (lyrium).
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