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Post by Blast Processor on Dec 20, 2021 20:59:53 GMT
Well, everything except Vesemir thinking about creating new Witcher. WTF?!?! That's character assassination territory for me. And it doesn't make sense. The books have this melancholy feeling that witchers are becoming redundant. They are a dying breed. The world soon won't need then anymore. Why the hell would Vesemir ever think about creating more of them?! Gosh, these writers... really pissed me off. I had watched the Nightmare of the Wolf previously, so the precedent was there for crazy Witcher plots. Like Vesemir making serious bank, he was living the high life. Or Vesemir's mentor creating new monsters, so the sacking of Kaer Morhen was apparently somewhat justified. Human prejudice was only a minor foot note apparently. Just sat there shaking my head. I’m pretty sure Phillipa wasn’t introduced until during or after Thaned. She stops Geralt from capturing Rience in Blood of Elves. Leads to some memorable dialogue.
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Post by azarhal on Dec 20, 2021 22:59:09 GMT
Will the three of them...plus Jaskier, I suppose...be traveling the Continent next season, then? Is that what was hinted at? Next season should be mostly about Yen training Ciri as Geralt suggested.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Dec 20, 2021 23:19:53 GMT
Will the three of them...plus Jaskier, I suppose...be traveling the Continent next season, then? Is that what was hinted at? Next season should be mostly about Yen training Ciri as Geralt suggested.
Right, but didn't Geralt also say they 'have to keep moving'?
Can the Wild Hunt track Ciri in the books (and thus, likely the show) the same way they could in the game?
If so, she'll need to use her power in order to be trained so she can protect herself, but that training will draw the Hunt to her...the ones she most needs protection from.
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Post by Heimdall on Dec 20, 2021 23:59:34 GMT
Next season should be mostly about Yen training Ciri as Geralt suggested.
Right, but didn't Geralt also say they 'have to keep moving'?
Can the Wild Hunt track Ciri in the books (and thus, likely the show) the same way they could in the game?
If so, she'll need to use her power in order to be trained so she can protect herself, but that training will draw the Hunt to her...the ones she most needs protection from. I think she encounters them once in Blood of Elves and then not again for a very long time. They can’t track her. The Wild Hunt isn’t hugely influential on the plot of the books until much later
I suspect season 3 will have Yen training Ciri while traveling with Geralt, and they may repurpose more short stories to have Geralt take on some Witcher jobs maybe. That will be the early plot while the political plot evolves. Yennifer will be recruited for the conspiracy at Thanedd and the situation will evolve enough that they can be invited there seeking some answers on Ciri’s destiny for the climax where Vilgefortz will stage his grand betrayal.
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Post by azarhal on Dec 21, 2021 1:06:51 GMT
Next season should be mostly about Yen training Ciri as Geralt suggested.
Right, but didn't Geralt also say they 'have to keep moving'?
Can the Wild Hunt track Ciri in the books (and thus, likely the show) the same way they could in the game?
If so, she'll need to use her power in order to be trained so she can protect herself, but that training will draw the Hunt to her...the ones she most needs protection from. They will "keep moving" toward the place where every plots will converge. The first episode should have some monster hunting as the book start with that. They could probably expand that to the second episode depending how much padding they want to add to the other storylines they developed already. They might give Geralt more stuff to do in the middle of the season too.
The Wild Hunt can't track Ciri in the books. They won't show up until like season 6/7 if they stick to one book per season and make them all.
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Post by Kappa Neko on Dec 21, 2021 20:30:59 GMT
Episode 5... ruined both Vesemir and Yennefer. Wow, kudos for pulling that off so fast, lmao! I'm now officially agreeing with my friend in saying fuck those writers! That said, if I didn't know the books I would probably love S2 because it looks so good and Ciri is really great now. And it's a visually stunning very emotionally effective narrative. It's just something completely divorced from the books now. Some of the characters are becoming unrecognizable, doing things they would never have done in the books. Lauren Hissrich promised a faithful adaptation for the fans of the books, if I remember correctly. That was apparently a complete lie. They obviously think they can write something better. Vesemir being serious about making more witchers and agreeing to do it to Ciri was the biggest WTF moment of the entire series for me so far. Vesemir would never betray Geralt like that. And he was never happy about having killed all these boys. Witcher are a relic of a different time. They are supposed to be less and less needed because there are fewer and fewer monsters left, just like few people will be killed by wolves and bears anymore in real life. We've exterminated them. But of course they've fabricated a reason why Witchers are suddenly of renewed importance because of that monolith rift nonsense. It makes sense in the story they're telling. But this is painful to me.
And then the evil crone storyline has Yennefer agree to deliver Ciri to her. OK, I'm done trying to see changes in a positive light! This is insulting! This was the moment my friend had a meltdown and wasn't sure he wanted to watch the rest of the season. He of course did. And apparently it won't get better...
The writers seem to think the more artificial drama they can infuse into the story the better. So Geralt is getting betrayed by Vesemir. He'll probably be shocked Yen wants to sell Ciri to get her powers back. How pathetic! Of course she won't do that. But before she becomes Ciri's teacher they gotta ramp up the drama and tensssssssion.
Neutral/positive: Rience. Not how I pictured him but so far the actor looks promising. I was told Lydia is spot on too. Actually looking forward to seeing her without that magic spell. Should be creepy good. Too little screen time to have an opinion on her this episode.
Visually, I'm still impressed with the show, it did not look very good last season. But now the creature design is great. The wild hunt at the end looked AMAZING. This is all very good looking TV. And it has plenty of dramatic hooks, it's just that it's insulting as an adaptation imo. And some of the writing of the dialogue seems to be directed at teenagers. Yen behaves like a spoiled brat. I hate that. To sum it all up perfectly in Jaskier's words: "Fucking... fucky... fuck." Very poetic!
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Post by azarhal on Dec 21, 2021 21:37:44 GMT
Yen behaves like a spoiled brat. Yen become less selfish once she get to bond with Ciri in the books, she is a spoiled brat before that (and even after still a bit). That haven't happened yet in the show by episode 5.
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Post by Kappa Neko on Dec 21, 2021 22:27:45 GMT
Yen behaves like a spoiled brat. Yen become less selfish once she get to bond with Ciri in the books, she is a spoiled brat before that (and even after still a bit). That haven't happened yet in the show by episode 5. Yes, true. I just find her writing on the show a lot more juvenile and at the same time too soft and weepy. Ice queen bitch was more her vibe in the books, I'd say.
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Post by azarhal on Dec 21, 2021 22:51:27 GMT
Yen become less selfish once she get to bond with Ciri in the books, she is a spoiled brat before that (and even after still a bit). That haven't happened yet in the show by episode 5. Yes, true. I just find her writing on the show a lot more juvenile and at the same time too soft and weepy. Ice queen bitch was more her vibe in the books, I'd say. All the sorceress are more soft/weepy in the show I find. Probably a deliberate choice to make them all "more relatable".
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Post by dazk on Dec 22, 2021 2:18:58 GMT
So finished watching the series last night and main take away was it was slightly better than the first season in that it was more coherent (I have only read the first book ages ago) but my appreciation for Yen as a character and the actress fell dramatically the longer the series went on.
Thought the Ciri and Geralt stuff was good but even as mainly a player of the games the actions attributed to Vesemir re Ciri were incomprehensible and a terrible take on his character and relationship with Geralt and Ciri. I am not a fan of Triss's actor or the way she has been written, I always thought Triss was a very confident and strong character but I am not sure what they are going for in the TV show.
That said it is enjoyable TV but i wont be waiting with baited breath for the next series.
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Post by Blast Processor on Dec 22, 2021 3:20:55 GMT
I haven't watched the last two episodes yet, I've been dragging my heels. Both season kinda run the gamut of emotions for me, so its hard to say which I think is superior. At least with the Eyck of Denesle character assassination I've come to find it ironically hilarious, thanks to an xLetalis video that juxtaposed Eyck in Thronebreaker vs Eyck in Netflix's The Witcher. It helps that in the end I really don't care about Eyck, unlike say Vesemir for instance. LOL. I was actually pretty close to making Yarpen standing there shaking his head my avatar, but I didn't think it would turn out as good as I imagined.
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Post by Kappa Neko on Dec 22, 2021 7:25:25 GMT
I am not a fan of Triss's actor or the way she has been written, I always thought Triss was a very confident and strong character but I am not sure what they are going for in the TV show. No, Triss was not that confident in the books at all. Or rather she tries to be but was really super insecure and also traumatized from Sodden. And her infatuation with Geralt was very teenage-like. She was stupid too and let herself be manipulated and used. She was always the youngest most naive of the sorceresses imo. Very preachy and annoying to me. Was less likeable than her game counterpart imo. She did come around in the end though. That's when she finally grows up. That's my take on the character anyway.
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Post by Kappa Neko on Dec 22, 2021 21:54:56 GMT
Episode 6... getting silly now! OK, every Rience scene was completely ludicrous this episode. How did he find Kaer Morhen?? How did he know about the mutagen? How does ANY of that make any sense?!
..then he shows up at the temple too?! Best part was when Yen and Ciri block the door with a statue that can't have been heavy if two women without any magical help can move it. LMAO.
What is going on with the writers? They're just throwing any character they can into every scene they can for maximum action and melodrama. Forget logic. Forget the plot, forget subtlety. Just make it all look "cool".
Omg...
And the dialogue keeps getting worse and worse too. "Fire fucker"?!?! Am I watching a Marvel movie?! What is this crap?
After the episode I reread the other half of Blood Of Elves and it's really painful what they're doing to Yen's character. They have nothing in common anymore. But thanks for the episode title easter egg about that epic letter that isn't even mentioned in the episode because Getalt never writes Yennefer but funny enough they meet which they didn't in the book. They were NOT on good terms. Is this mockery at this point?!
The stuff at the temple was so beautiful in the books. No assault. Poor Jarre wasn't injured. Just Yen and Ciri bonding. Which was one of my favorite things in the books.
I can't wait to see how they're fucking that up... My friend has finished watching the season and believes this season was just a setup for their Witcher Blood Origin spin-off. They don't care about an adaptation. They wanna do their own thing. Possibly without having to pay a lot of money for the franchise when they're writing their own drivel only loosely based on the source material. No idea show copyrights work exactly in that case. Yeah, I won't be watching that.
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Post by mugwump on Dec 22, 2021 23:57:14 GMT
You know, it's not that I don't understand the case that's often made for the validity of interpretive works based on established IP, I just get frustrated when excellent source material is all but ignored. Such a pity.
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Post by Blast Processor on Dec 23, 2021 1:48:17 GMT
Finished episode 7. Well at this point I'm content making my own fun. Yarpen: "Who's the girl? Yours?" Me: "Oh my god, Geralt is about to say the line!" Geralt: "Mine. Mine, Zigrin." Me: "He said it. He said the line!" LOL.
Also, I wanted to point out how sneaky CDPR could be with book references. There is training sequence not featured in the show, it was actually a pretty important scene, but I guess not anymore. Anyway, Geralt is training Ciri on the pendulum, trying to teach her that its not a matter of brawn but technique, that no man no matter how strong could parry a blow from a dracolizard's tail or a griffin's claw. Ciri will recall this moment before her greatest triumph. Meanwhile...
Letho never learned this apparently. But then he wasn't Kaer Morhen trained. LOL.
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Post by Blast Processor on Dec 23, 2021 3:56:00 GMT
Well, that's that. For the purposes of the poll, I'm voting that Season 1 was somewhat better. I was torn but in the end I remembered how much I enjoyed Season 1's soundtrack, and that pushed me more towards it. I might listen to Season 2's soundtrack some to compare, but nothing really jumped out to me.
When I read the part in Sword of Destiny where Geralt's mother heals him, I had The Song Of The White Wolf playing, and it damn near brought me to tears. Isn't music great?
As for Season 3, I'll probably give it a watch out of curiosity but that's about it.
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Post by Kappa Neko on Dec 23, 2021 9:25:46 GMT
Episode 7 was utter horseshit! This season just keeps getting worse and worse. It's an insult to Sapkowski at this point.
First in S1 they don't do the most emotional scene of the entire saga between Geralt and Ciri in Brokilon. Which leads to a hollow unearned reunion. Now in S2 they butchered Ciri and Yen bonding. So it's again hollow and unearned.
And the amazing caravan scene also gets butchered into oblivion.
How can the writers be so full of themselves to believe their silly melodrama is better?!
It's really just about convoluted drama. Drama over Ciri. Setting up melodrama between Tissaia and Vilgefortz further down the line. The whole elven baby crap that took up way too much screen time. Fringilla has completely lost it. But heeeey, the witch made them do it. How convenient.
What a travesty...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2021 19:16:27 GMT
Figured this thread could use this little reminder that Sapkowski himself said this,
“Creators of adaptations of literary works for other media have the right to be sovereign creators, with an unrestricted right to creative freedom. In the particular case of this adaptation, their ideas can be different than mine. And even when some of their ideas are different than mine, so what? My books are not the Bible.“
Also, since y'all can't use spoiler tags, peace out.
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Post by Blast Processor on Dec 23, 2021 21:24:19 GMT
I tried to keep any spoilers I posted to minor book stuff that has no bearing on the show whatsoever, but if you plan to read the books soon than I apologize. As for The Witcher books being the Bible, far from it in my case, the books are loaded with flaws, why would I want those adapted? As others have said, its sad seeing so much good material go ignored, season 3 and onward will have largely nothing to do with the books. Which is fine I suppose, but the end product is average at best in my opinion. I also think certain aspects of the books are not the easiest to adapt, even if it was a more accurate adaption. Sapkowski didn't often spell things out, which at times is fine and often there is a reason, but at other times the reader just feels short changed, or a least I did, so each book reader may have a slightly different interpretation of the specifics of some scenes, etc. Spoilers for Episode 7. I thought it was neat having Ciri return to the family that helped her, to see what Rience had done to them. But it didn't really effect her as much as one would expect. Maybe it will come up again down the line.
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Post by Syv on Dec 24, 2021 1:33:06 GMT
I voted Season 1 was somewhat better. Stopped season 2 after watching episode 5, not sure I will finish the serie tv, I'm disappointed. It's kinda difficult to know where it is going. For season 1 there was only the timeline I had some difficulty to understand in the first episodes, but then it went very well, and the end was very good. The armors were also kinda bad. Season 2, the ambiance of war and the consequences of the battle of Sodden is well made, the two first episodes were good. The monsters are well made. But I have some big issues. Many scenes I didn't understand the point. Fringuila with Yen. I thought there was a purpose like in the books, but someone told me It wasn't in the book, heh. Why then ? Geralt shows way too much emotions in the season 2. Like wtf. I never pictured him that way in the game or in the first book, the only one I read, like he was always that pity and very sad character. Didn't like it, it quite bothered me, in almost all the episodes he had his moments... In the season 1, I thought they had a better balance. The way he was almost crying when Tissaia learned him that Yennefer was dead quite surprised me in the wrong way. I don't like any of the main female characters. Yennefer, it's a pity I knew her in the game or in the first book, I would have probably liked her. But with everything I already know from her I can only think of character assassination. In the first season it was okay, but in season 2, she has nothing to do with Yen from the material source. One scene in episode 3 or 4 has shocked me very much. It's when she tries to save the elven refugee that his elven friend has abandoned. She does everything to save him, like a good selfless girl, risking her own life, and worse than that, it affected her very much after, to the point she came to complain to the other elf she run after about his cowardice and their companion lost. Don't like Ciri. Don't like her actress, she doesn't match at all. It's the opposite of Geralt / Henri Cavill, she doesn't show much emotions even when she tries, she isn't likeable. I love cold characters when they are meant to be cold, there the actress simply lacks a range of emotions to me, it's often the same... She is cold, even whe she tries to be joyful. I don't really care about her, she would die, that wouldn't affect me one bit. She doesn't make me feel anything. Maybe it's also because of the game again that I'm disappointed. Anyway I didn't like her since season 1. Badly chosen. The serie tv is boring everytime she appears on screen. The less I see her, the better I am. Don't like triss. The actress is badly chosen, and the character is bland , boring. I sometimes wonder what is her purpose. It's been since season 1 I'm wondering that question. However, I liked how she was sad about her scars, and the battle of Sodden. That's where I found her human and I could feel a sad story behind. It's the first time in a popular series, that I don't really like or find annoying the main characters, to be honest. The only characters I like, are Vesemir, Tissaia, Stregobor, and Istredd. They are the most interesting characters to me, whether with the acting and within the story. I read on internet the whole season was maybe a setup, I might change my opinion with season 3. For the moment, I'll wait. Maybe I will watch the two last episodes in the next months if I have nothing to do.
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Post by Blast Processor on Dec 24, 2021 4:04:13 GMT
I don't like any of the main female characters. Yennefer, it's a pity I knew her in the game or in the first book, I would have probably liked her. But with everything I already know from her I can only think of character assassination. In the first season it was okay, but in season 2, she has nothing to do with Yen from the material source. One scene in episode 3 or 4 has shocked me very much. It's when she tries to save the elven refugee that his elven friend has abandoned. She does everything to save him, like a good selfless girl, risking her own life, and worse than that, it affected her very much after, to the point she came to complain to the other elf she run after about his cowardice and their companion lost. I thought they put it on a bit thick with her calling out the other elf as you mentioned, other than that I liked that scene. In the waifu thread I described book Yen as an unknowable bitch, she's probably the biggest instance I'm willing to give the showrunners leeway (well until the later stuff). It ties back to what I said earlier about Sapkowski being vague and in this case not creating a more clearly defined character, and given her personality, its easy to think of her as just a massive bitch.
Actually I'm going to repost something from a while back in this thread.Speaking of Yennefer, in the books she is an extremely unlikable person in my opinion, though we the readers only get to view her through a very narrow lens, and are left to analyze the bread crumbs. The books hint at her virtues and to my mind Geralt and Yen are at there core cut from the same cloth, just that Yen is ruthless as hell. I think in Time of Contempt it mentions Yen saving some dwarves during a pogrom in Vengerberg, with the show putting so much focus on her I would've liked to have seen her character fleshed out more. So yeah, book Yen saved some dwarves during a pogrom in Vengerberg. So I wouldn't say Yennefer isn't capable of being selfless. The story is not told in any detail, and who knows how long ago it took place. Here is a quote from Time of Contempt.
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Post by Kappa Neko on Dec 24, 2021 21:57:49 GMT
Episode 8... the most TV thing I've seen in a while. Definitely more of a setup for their stupid Blood Origin spin-off than an adaptation.
While they did kinda come round to the book plot in the end with a ton of revelations way earlier than they are addressed there, funny enough, they went about in the most TV action frenzy possible.
I felt like I was watching Jurassic Park there with the monsters coming through the monolith. And how useless are all the witchers except Geralt? Apparently most witchers suck at their job if they can't defeat two monsters together, lol. Murdered in their sleep without their medallions going off. Then looking everywhere for Ciri but the big main hall. Ridiculous scene!
Oh and character assassination of Vesemir for real now. Betrays Gerald with the mutagen and then stabs Ciri, lol. He comes off as a complete fool this season. Awful.
This is such eye rolling melodrama, I can't even. Ciri possessed by the witch. All right. Whatever. Just let this season be over already, I've seen enough drama for the sake of drama.
But I guess the writers thought they were clever introducing Ciri's dimension hopping powers. Except now she's already as powerful as at the end of the saga after like an hour with Yen, OK then. Which means the entire plotting is ruined. But I guess that's fine, they'll just keep writing their own crap.
Revealing Emhyr so early surprised me. But I guess it's not so easy to keep that a twist when it's already known what he looks like. But why couldn't they be bothered to age Emhyr a bit?? He's terrible. Looks so soft.
Philippa looks OK. At least she's pretty. Always thought her looks in W3 were too old and her voice was kinda old too. I hope the actress is good. Then again I'm not sure I want to watch S3.
I don't understand why sacrificing herself restored Yen's powers but OK. It was all so cheesy, whatever. Yen's character got ruined this season too for me. Nothing like in the books. I was on the fence in S1 but enjoyed the backstory. The actress is good. She's just nothing like the ice queen she should be.
The only awesome thing was the Wild Hunt. Looked perfect.
I'm not going to watch the spin-off and I'm not sure I'll be back for S3 when it come out in like two years. Visually now a 10/10 show. As its own thing I'll give it an 7.5/10. As an adaptation it's 2/10 for me. The first episode was the best by far. Then it got progressively worse as things got more and more convoluted. Very disappointing but about what I expected all along before S1 even aired.
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"Why are you telling me this? I can read and draw my own conclusions." - Roach
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Post by Blast Processor on Dec 25, 2021 7:18:36 GMT
So the voice of that random Nilfgaardian General was really bugging me, I thought for sure he had to be from one of the games. My first thought was King Henselt but that wasn't right, it turned out it was actually King Foltest. Once I got through season 2 and realized that General is in multiple episodes, it made it easier to figure it out. Playing guess the voice actor is a bit of a hobby of mine. Haha. That's three actors by my count pulling double duty so far between the games and the show. The other two being Tissaia's actress and that random dock guard.
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"Why are you telling me this? I can read and draw my own conclusions." - Roach
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Post by Blast Processor on Dec 25, 2021 16:40:34 GMT
Okay. I've changed my mind, I now love what they did with Eskel in episode 2. LOL.
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