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Post by SirSourpuss on Feb 18, 2020 16:35:26 GMT
Perhaps "deserve" isn't really the right word, but in theory, the new installments could have functioned just fine without him, as well as Leia and Han, since their story arcs were totally complete at that point. Disney was simply taking the easy route and letting nostalgia serve as a buttress for the new trilogy. But as a standalone, the Disney trilogy is worse than the Prequel trilogy and at least, if you're going to reuse the Original Trilogy cast, don't fuck them over. If Andromeda was made outside the OT, without the ME3 debacle, there would be a lot less bad blood between the community and Bioware. ME3 effectively broke Mass Effect.
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Post by alanc9 on Feb 18, 2020 17:46:55 GMT
Given the relatively poor quality of ME:A in several highly-visible aspects, and a few design decisions which proved unpopular (for instance, the writing team badly underestimated how important the power-fantasy aspect was to ME fans), I'm not sure why we need to look beyond ME:A to explain ME:A's reception.
I mean, I liked ME:A OK, but it's easily worse than ME2 and ME3. I rank it about on par with ME1, but that isn't good enough since ME1 gets a pass for a lot of its faults as an early, primitive game in the series.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 18, 2020 17:54:16 GMT
Given the relatively poor quality of ME:A in several highly-visible aspects, and a few design decisions which proved unpopular (for instance, the writing team badly underestimated how important the power-fantasy aspect was to ME fans), I'm not sure why we need to look beyond ME:A to explain ME:A's reception. I mean, I liked ME:A OK, but it's easily worse than ME2 and ME3. I rank it about on par with ME1, but that isn't good enough since ME1 gets a pass for a lot of its faults as an early, primitive game in the series. I disagree about it being worse than ME2 (which is the worst in the series) or ME1. It’s around on par of ME3 for me, though considering how much of that is being the culmination of a trilogy I’d say MEA eeks out ahead.
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Feb 18, 2020 18:02:10 GMT
Given the relatively poor quality of ME:A in several highly-visible aspects, and a few design decisions which proved unpopular (for instance, the writing team badly underestimated how important the power-fantasy aspect was to ME fans), I'm not sure why we need to look beyond ME:A to explain ME:A's reception. I mean, I liked ME:A OK, but it's easily worse than ME2 and ME3. I rank it about on par with ME1, but that isn't good enough since ME1 gets a pass for a lot of its faults as an early, primitive game in the series. I disagree about it being worse than ME2 (which is the worst in the series) or ME1. It’s around on par of ME3 for me, though considering how much of that is being the culmination of a trilogy I’d say MEA eeks out ahead. Also disagree, especially now that I tried to start ME2 and it felt so alien compared to 1 and A. Then again I was quite disappointed when 2 came out and it didnt have more expansive exploring etc what was in the first one.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Feb 18, 2020 18:09:18 GMT
I disagree about it being worse than ME2 (which is the worst in the series) or ME1 Well, the public obviously disagrees with you there. It’s around on par of ME3 for me The game that broke the franchise? Yeah, sounds about right. though considering how much of that is being the culmination of a trilogy I’d say MEA eeks out ahead. So ME:A takes the cake as the worst? I don't think it managed to miss the mark as hard as ME3 did, but it didn't have much of a chance, since nobody really cared or had any expectations from it. I'd say ME3 beats it, hands down.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 18, 2020 18:15:20 GMT
though considering how much of that is being the culmination of a trilogy I’d say MEA eeks out ahead. So ME:A takes the cake as the worst? I don't think it managed to miss the mark as hard as ME3 did, but it didn't have much of a chance, since nobody really cared or had any expectations from it. I'd say ME3 beats it, hands down. No, MEA takes the cake as the best. I said ME2 was the worst.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Feb 18, 2020 18:16:56 GMT
No, MEA takes the cake as the best. I said ME2 was the worst. That can't possibly be what you said. I think your keyboard is broken.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 18, 2020 18:19:46 GMT
No, MEA takes the cake as the best. I said ME2 was the worst. That can't possibly be what you said. I think your keyboard is broken. Here, let me try again. MEA is the best Mass Effect game. ME2 is the worst Mass Effect game. MEA is the best Mass Effect game. ME2 is the worst Mass Effect game. MEA is the best Mass Effect game. ME2 is the worst Mass Effect game. Seems to be working fine. The problem must be within your skull.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2020 18:20:36 GMT
Given the relatively poor quality of ME:A in several highly-visible aspects, and a few design decisions which proved unpopular (for instance, the writing team badly underestimated how important the power-fantasy aspect was to ME fans), I'm not sure why we need to look beyond ME:A to explain ME:A's reception. I mean, I liked ME:A OK, but it's easily worse than ME2 and ME3. I rank it about on par with ME1, but that isn't good enough since ME1 gets a pass for a lot of its faults as an early, primitive game in the series. Each game presents a different set of flaws and strengths. I've said before - I like them all pretty much equally... for different reasons (i.e. different strengths). ME:A is a good enough game and story that they could continue with it and make a great story and game out of it... and that's my preference... moving forward beyond the dodge already done of ME3's endings instead of moving back to try to correct ME3's ending mistakes yet again.
If I were to rate "fun factor" - ME:A right now is hands down the winner. I have a lot of fun playing that game. I never had that much shear fun playing ME1 even when the game was brand new to me.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Feb 18, 2020 18:24:45 GMT
Here, let me try again. MEA is the best Mass Effect game. ME2 is the worst Mass Effect game. MEA is the best Mass Effect game. ME2 is the worst Mass Effect game. MEA is the best Mass Effect game. ME2 is the worst Mass Effect game. Seems to be working fine. The problem must be within your skull. You got a P.O Box? I can send you a new keyboard.
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Feb 18, 2020 19:09:46 GMT
Given the relatively poor quality of ME:A in several highly-visible aspects, and a few design decisions which proved unpopular (for instance, the writing team badly underestimated how important the power-fantasy aspect was to ME fans), I'm not sure why we need to look beyond ME:A to explain ME:A's reception. I mean, I liked ME:A OK, but it's easily worse than ME2 and ME3. I rank it about on par with ME1, but that isn't good enough since ME1 gets a pass for a lot of its faults as an early, primitive game in the series. If I were to rate "fun factor" - ME:A right now is hands down the winner. I have a lot of fun playing that game. I never had that much shear fun playing ME1 even when the game was brand new to me.
This. ME1 first time was super awful experience, my GT9500 wasnt just cutting it, controls were super laggy and it crashed crappy XP machine at the end of first mission. Doh. I left it to lay for a while because of those problems, but something in it was pulling me in hard. Another GPU and updated version, I think I played from morning to night straight and same thing with Andromeda. I also rate 2 and 3 good, but not as good as the 1 and A. But fun? Yeah, its definately Andromeda that is most fun, and I guess for me it also comes because it has the hands down best control & handling of the character in gameplay, in how fast it reacts to user commands and how fast the combat gameplay is.
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Post by Polka Dot on Feb 18, 2020 19:20:35 GMT
Given the relatively poor quality of ME:A in several highly-visible aspects, and a few design decisions which proved unpopular (for instance, the writing team badly underestimated how important the power-fantasy aspect was to ME fans), I'm not sure why we need to look beyond ME:A to explain ME:A's reception. I mean, I liked ME:A OK, but it's easily worse than ME2 and ME3. I rank it about on par with ME1, but that isn't good enough since ME1 gets a pass for a lot of its faults as an early, primitive game in the series. Each game presents a different set of flaws and strengths. I've said before - I like them all pretty much equally... for different reasons (i.e. different strengths). ME:A is a good enough game and story that they could continue with it and make a great story and game out of it... and that's my preference... moving forward beyond the dodge already done of ME3's endings instead of moving back to try to correct ME3's ending mistakes yet again. If I were to rate "fun factor" - ME:A right now is hands down the winner. I have a lot of fun playing that game. I never had that much shear fun playing ME1 even when the game was brand new to me.
That's kind of a tough one for me. The crazy crafting you can do in MEA makes for hella fun, but then so does Armax Arsenal Arena (which is probably my favorite part of ME3.)
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2020 19:33:01 GMT
Each game presents a different set of flaws and strengths. I've said before - I like them all pretty much equally... for different reasons (i.e. different strengths). ME:A is a good enough game and story that they could continue with it and make a great story and game out of it... and that's my preference... moving forward beyond the dodge already done of ME3's endings instead of moving back to try to correct ME3's ending mistakes yet again. If I were to rate "fun factor" - ME:A right now is hands down the winner. I have a lot of fun playing that game. I never had that much shear fun playing ME1 even when the game was brand new to me.
That's kind of a tough one for me. The crazy crafting you can do in MEA makes for hella fun, but then so does Armax Arsenal Arena (which is probably my favorite part of ME3.) Of the Citadel DLC, I like the Armax Arena alright, but I like the mission to rescue the Normandy more. I like most of the missions in ME3, TBH. One issue I have with the combat in the MET is that enemy spawns are still very, very predictable. After playing each game so many times, I can easily anticipate where and when each enemy will appear.
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Post by Ascend on Feb 18, 2020 20:32:43 GMT
I mean, I liked ME:A OK, but it's easily worse than ME2 and ME3. I rank it about on par with ME1, but that isn't good enough since ME1 gets a pass for a lot of its faults as an early, primitive game in the series. Ew. Andromeda doesn't even come close to ME1. And that has nothing to do with ME1 getting a pass for its faults. That's ME2. ME1 had faults, but it didn't kill its story-telling capability. The main issue that ME1 faced was pacing. Although that is also what Andromeda faced, at least ME1 had high points, quality moments and plot twists. This. ME1 first time was super awful experience, my GT9500 wasnt just cutting it, controls were super laggy and it crashed crappy XP machine at the end of first mission. Doh. I left it to lay for a while because of those problems, but something in it was pulling me in hard. Now imagine ME2 and ME3 with those same faults as ME1, and wonder if you'd be pulled in in the same way. I know I wouldn't. That something you're talking about, is what I missed from the later two games, and moreso in ME2 than in ME3.
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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 18, 2020 21:12:51 GMT
Perhaps "deserve" isn't really the right word, but in theory, the new installments could have functioned just fine without him, as well as Leia and Han, since their story arcs were totally complete at that point. Disney was simply taking the easy route and letting nostalgia serve as a buttress for the new trilogy. But as a standalone, the Disney trilogy is worse than the Prequel trilogy and at least, if you're going to reuse the Original Trilogy cast, don't fuck them over. If Andromeda was made outside the OT, without the ME3 debacle, there would be a lot less bad blood between the community and Bioware. ME3 effectively broke Mass Effect. Well this is something I don't feel BioWare can ever really escape from, unless they do like I suggested before and actually patch the original trilogy's ending to a greater degree than the extended cut. But by now, I think it's just too late for that too. Even if they were to just slap a hefty retcon on everything and declare everything A-OK now, it'll still be a dark cloud lingering over it because it still affects the old games.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Feb 18, 2020 22:16:27 GMT
That's kind of a tough one for me. The crazy crafting you can do in MEA makes for hella fun, but then so does Armax Arsenal Arena (which is probably my favorite part of ME3.) Of the Citadel DLC, I like the Armax Arena alright, but I like the mission to rescue the Normandy more. I like most of the missions in ME3, TBH. One issue I have with the combat in the MET is that enemy spawns are still very, very predictable. After playing each game so many times, I can easily anticipate where and when each enemy will appear. That doesn't really change with Andromeda. Revisiting those random events sites a dozen time to get the item to spawn has the enemies spawning again and again in the same place.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2020 23:14:10 GMT
Of the Citadel DLC, I like the Armax Arena alright, but I like the mission to rescue the Normandy more. I like most of the missions in ME3, TBH. One issue I have with the combat in the MET is that enemy spawns are still very, very predictable. After playing each game so many times, I can easily anticipate where and when each enemy will appear. That doesn't really change with Andromeda. Revisiting those random events sites a dozen time to get the item to spawn has the enemies spawning again and again in the same place. Not abasolutelly the same individual mook in the exact same place at the exact same time every time. I've had even architect encounters that have varied significantly from playthrough to playthrough... and they are, for the most part, scripted. However, the numbers of mooks that spawn and how many times the architect will go into "making babies" mode depends a lot on how quickly you whittle away at its health. Also, there are simply a lot more locations and missions in the game, so I haven't got it all memorized yet. Quest starters, like bodies to scan or datapads are also clearly random and don't appear in the same order and at the exact same site every single playthrough. So, while spawns are not completely random, it seems a lot more random and more difficult to predict with absolute certainty than any of the Trilogy games ever did.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Feb 19, 2020 0:00:15 GMT
That doesn't really change with Andromeda. Revisiting those random events sites a dozen time to get the item to spawn has the enemies spawning again and again in the same place. Not abasolutelly the same individual mook in the exact same place at the exact same time every time. I've had even architect encounters that have varied significantly from playthrough to playthrough... and they are, for the most part, scripted. However, the numbers of mooks that spawn and how many times the architect will go into "making babies" mode depends a lot on how quickly you whittle away at its health. Also, there are simply a lot more locations and missions in the game, so I haven't got it all memorized yet. Quest starters, like bodies to scan or datapads are also clearly random and don't appear in the same order and at the exact same site every single playthrough. So, while spawns are not completely random, it seems a lot more random and more difficult to predict with absolute certainty than any of the Trilogy games ever did. I kill things quicker so it can spawn less minions isn't a strong improvement. Every spawn is scripted when you get into X range they show up. They might not show up right away depending on if you killed the people that spawned there but they show up. The boring repetitive nature of the RNG quests only hammers this home for me.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2020 0:39:04 GMT
Not abasolutelly the same individual mook in the exact same place at the exact same time every time. I've had even architect encounters that have varied significantly from playthrough to playthrough... and they are, for the most part, scripted. However, the numbers of mooks that spawn and how many times the architect will go into "making babies" mode depends a lot on how quickly you whittle away at its health. Also, there are simply a lot more locations and missions in the game, so I haven't got it all memorized yet. Quest starters, like bodies to scan or datapads are also clearly random and don't appear in the same order and at the exact same site every single playthrough. So, while spawns are not completely random, it seems a lot more random and more difficult to predict with absolute certainty than any of the Trilogy games ever did. I kill things quicker so it can spawn less minions isn't a strong improvement. Every spawn is scripted when you get into X range they show up. They might not show up right away depending on if you killed the people that spawned there but they show up. The boring repetitive nature of the RNG quests only hammers this home for me. To each their own. It may not be much of an improvement, but it is an improvement, IMO, from being able to say with certainty that when I round this corner on Virmire I will encounter exactly 3 rocket drones in this spot and that exact spot and over there in that exact spot. I could fire off the mako cannon and destroy the enemies on any difficulty with my eyes closed. When we got to the gate, there would this geth over here in the water and another over there, and a destroyer coming down the stairs as I walk up, blah, blah, blah. Again, I could take them out with my eyes closed. Even the colossus was never a surprise after my first run through the area. He was always in the same spot, looking the same way and, on any difficulty, I could take him out without even exposing the nose the mako so he'd only ever hit the cover I was behind. It didn't matter what difficulty I played on... the only change was how many bullets it would take to kill each of them and with unlimited ammo even that didn't matter a lick. With so few missions overall, it was an absolute cake walk to just memorize them enemy by enemy. Watching people on Youtube play who have played ME1 a few time before, it's not hard to tell that they know exactly where and when each enemy will spawn.
Andromeda is has never been that predictable for me. No battle I've fought in ME:A yet has ever played out exactly the same way twice.
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Post by alanc9 on Feb 19, 2020 2:42:06 GMT
I agree that these are both bad design. However, my impression of CRPG players is that a significant percentage like the predictability. Developing an optimum strategy for an encounter you have OOC foreknowledge of is a thing.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2020 6:45:35 GMT
Perhaps "deserve" isn't really the right word, but in theory, the new installments could have functioned just fine without him, as well as Leia and Han, since their story arcs were totally complete at that point. Disney was simply taking the easy route and letting nostalgia serve as a buttress for the new trilogy. But as a standalone, the Disney trilogy is worse than the Prequel trilogy and at least, if you're going to reuse the Original Trilogy cast, don't fuck them over. If Andromeda was made outside the OT, without the ME3 debacle, there would be a lot less bad blood between the community and Bioware. ME3 effectively broke Mass Effect. How did ME3 break Mass Effect?
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Post by alanc9 on Feb 19, 2020 8:08:50 GMT
(Oh, this should be fun.)
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2020 11:45:35 GMT
I agree that these are both bad design. However, my impression of CRPG players is that a significant percentage like the predictability. Developing an optimum strategy for an encounter you have OOC foreknowledge of is a thing. As I said, to each their own. For me, the predictability of MET combat has made the encounters so easy, even on insanity, that I really struggle to motivate myself to play the game again. It's not nearly as fun as Andromeda's combat. That's all I'm saying.
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Post by Ascend on Feb 19, 2020 12:19:19 GMT
Combat and graphics are the only things that truly progressed in all successive games. That being said. I don't play Mass Effect for the combat. Good combat is a bonus, and a welcome one. But I cannot judge a Mass Effect game on primarily its combat. This isn't Call of Duty or Battlefield. Judging Mass Effect on its combat is like judging a fighting game for its story. Or judging a Mario game for its shooting. It is part of the experience, but it is not the focus.
Andromeda started out well enough, but became more tedious the longer I played it. Too many fetch quests, too much backtracking. It felt like a waste of time after the first 10-ish hours.
The best example of useless back-tracking I remember is the side mission where you have to place the radio towers on different planets. What happens after you do place all the towers? You have to go ALL THE WAY back to the Nexus to talk to the NPC in person. We can travel to a different galaxy, but we can't use the placed radio towers for a simple phone call to finish a quest. That's the kind of stuff that yanks me out of a game experience and makes me feel like the game is wasting my time. No one thought of finishing the quest through a final transmission test without needing to go back all the way to the Nexus? It would be different if it was classified data, but it wasn't.
Aside from the main plot in Andromeda being completely uninteresting and predictable, the game becomes repetitive after completing the first vault, the side missions are generally uninteresting or even annoying, the loyalty missions are boring compared to ME2. The main things Andromeda does right are combat, graphics and the vehicle handling. The rest, all inferior to the trilogy.
If combat is really your thing, you're better off playing the ME3 or MEA multiplayer, rather than playing MEA's campaign. Or even better; Anthem.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2020 12:42:31 GMT
Combat and graphics are the only things that truly progressed in all successive games. That being said. I don't play Mass Effect for the combat. Good combat is a bonus, and a welcome one. But I cannot judge a Mass Effect game on primarily its combat. This isn't Call of Duty or Battlefield. Judging Mass Effect on its combat is like judging a fighting game for its story. Or judging a Mario game for its shooting. It is part of the experience, but it is not the focus. Andromeda started out well enough, but became more tedious the longer I played it. Too many fetch quests, too much backtracking. It felt like a waste of time after the first 10-ish hours. The best example of useless back-tracking I remember is the side mission where you have to place the radio towers on different planets. What happens after you do place all the towers? You have to go ALL THE WAY back to the Nexus to talk to the NPC in person. We can travel to a different galaxy, but we can't use the placed radio towers for a simple phone call to finish a quest. That's the kind of stuff that yanks me out of a game experience and makes me feel like the game is wasting my time. No one thought of finishing the quest through a final transmission test without needing to go back all the way to the Nexus? It would be different if it was classified data, but it wasn't. Aside from the main plot in Andromeda being completely uninteresting and predictable, the game becomes repetitive after completing the first vault, the side missions are generally uninteresting or even annoying, the loyalty missions are boring compared to ME2. The main things Andromeda does right are combat, graphics and the vehicle handling. The rest, all inferior to the trilogy. If combat is really your thing, you're better off playing the ME3 or MEA multiplayer, rather than playing MEA's campaign. Or even better; Anthem. How does placing the radio tower involve backtracking? The placement quests are given the moment to place the settlement and the locations to plant the towers are right near the settlement locations. The quest then can be dropped off whenever you return to the Nexus to wrap up any number of other quests (e.g. Ryder Family Secrets). After all, Nexus is set up as your hub. Returning occasionally to it should not be something you would avoid doing story-wise, but rather something you would logically be doing all the time to refuel and restock on supplies.
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