inherit
The homeostatic problem-solving structure
8860
0
Apr 26, 2022 11:22:31 GMT
8,885
Unicephalon 40-D
An unknown possibly hostile flotilla detected at eight hundred astronomical units from the sun!
4,960
Jun 29, 2017 12:57:11 GMT
June 2017
legendcncd
Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
LegendCNCD / AsariLoverFI
|
Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Feb 19, 2020 13:02:27 GMT
If combat is really your thing, you're better off playing the ME3 or MEA multiplayer, rather than playing MEA's campaign. Or even better; Anthem. We'll agree to disagree about the story etc. But yeah, MEAMP has been a super blast, also Anthem
|
|
Ascend
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 370 Likes: 492
inherit
3282
0
492
Ascend
370
February 2017
ascend
Bottom
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Ascend on Feb 19, 2020 13:35:19 GMT
How does placing the radio tower involve backtracking? The placement quests are given the moment to place the settlement and the locations to plant the towers are right near the settlement locations. The quest then can be dropped off whenever you return to the Nexus to wrap up any number of other quests (e.g. Ryder Family Secrets). After all, Nexus is set up as your hub. Returning occasionally to it should not be something you would avoid doing story-wise, but rather something you would logically be doing all the time to refuel and restock on supplies. That does not somehow negate the need to go all the way back to the Nexus to talk to the quest giver while it could have easily been finished automatically. Sure. You'll return to the Nexus. But it's yet another person you need to talk to in a tsunami of useless fetch quests. It is an additional unnecessary step, making it feel like filler. I guess you and I will never agree on anything.
|
|
Polka Dot
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 679 Likes: 1,207
inherit
10957
0
Feb 14, 2019 20:07:41 GMT
1,207
Polka Dot
679
Feb 14, 2019 18:50:29 GMT
February 2019
polkadot
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Polka Dot on Feb 19, 2020 15:22:46 GMT
How does placing the radio tower involve backtracking? The placement quests are given the moment to place the settlement and the locations to plant the towers are right near the settlement locations. The quest then can be dropped off whenever you return to the Nexus to wrap up any number of other quests (e.g. Ryder Family Secrets). After all, Nexus is set up as your hub. Returning occasionally to it should not be something you would avoid doing story-wise, but rather something you would logically be doing all the time to refuel and restock on supplies. That does not somehow negate the need to go all the way back to the Nexus to talk to the quest giver while it could have easily been finished automatically. Sure. You'll return to the Nexus. But it's yet another person you need to talk to in a tsunami of useless fetch quests. It is an additional unnecessary step, making it feel like filler. I guess you and I will never agree on anything. I can agree with your premise that MEA has a fair bit of backtracking, some of which felt like a waste of time. Best example imho is that movie night questline, which sends you all over the cluster to fetch piddly crap. I wouldn't toss the transmission towers into that group, though. Extending comm capabilities as settlements are developed feels worthwhile to me.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
10036
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2020 15:33:34 GMT
How does placing the radio tower involve backtracking? The placement quests are given the moment to place the settlement and the locations to plant the towers are right near the settlement locations. The quest then can be dropped off whenever you return to the Nexus to wrap up any number of other quests (e.g. Ryder Family Secrets). After all, Nexus is set up as your hub. Returning occasionally to it should not be something you would avoid doing story-wise, but rather something you would logically be doing all the time to refuel and restock on supplies. That does not somehow negate the need to go all the way back to the Nexus to talk to the quest giver while it could have easily been finished automatically. Sure. You'll return to the Nexus. But it's yet another person you need to talk to in a tsunami of useless fetch quests. It is an additional unnecessary step, making it feel like filler. I guess you and I will never agree on anything. I does make it not worth complaining about "backtracking." Any quest could be programmed to complete automatically. Why not make it so every quest starts automatically while you're out in the world and you never have to talk to anyone to get them? I'm sorry you don't like talking to the quest giver after completing their quest, but it is not a thing that breaks immersion. It enhances it. ME:A does a bit of both. For example, you don't have to go back and tell the guy in the med-bay that you delivered his locket to the site where his brother died. You magically get an email from him even though you did nothing to tell him when you completed the job. I find that sort of "magic" more immersion breaking than bothering to stop in and talk to people at the game hub to complete quests. Perhaps a "compromise" would be to ask the player to actually generate and send an email to the quest givers from Tempest in order to get the quest completed notification. Heck, they could even give us some leeway to type into the email what our character would like to say... we just would never get an actual response from the quest giver since they couldn't respond to a personally crafted email... only a generic "Thanks for doing the job (i.e. quest complete notification).
|
|
dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
Prime Posts: 77
Posts: 9,941 Likes: 17,684
inherit
Biotic Booty
1031
0
Apr 19, 2024 16:40:05 GMT
17,684
dmc1001
9,941
August 2016
dmc1001
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
ferroboy
77
|
Post by dmc1001 on Feb 19, 2020 15:36:28 GMT
Shepard is more than 75% likely dead. Even in Destroy he's almost certainly dead. The surviving Shep has so little odds that it wouldn't be worth it. Even if alive, Shep would have to be retired.
Though I'm loathe to admit it, I'd suggest setting the series just a tad beyond Liara's lifespan. (Sorry not sorry but the fact that she even made it into MEA is so damn annoying.) I guess I'm starting to come around to the idea that if the setting is far enough in the future nearly any ending could work other than Refusal. Even then, using tactics like the Protheans did might allow for survivors of each race.
|
|
inherit
9459
0
Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
5,628
SirSourpuss
7,694
Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
|
Post by SirSourpuss on Feb 19, 2020 15:40:57 GMT
How did ME3 break Mass Effect? We had a thing going on, at the time of ME3's launch, where the BSN was on flames for a while. You might remember it. Was a big thing back then, but it's been 8 years. It's logical you might not remember it. I mean, disregarding the uproar entirely, you can tell its after effects, by the fact that Montreal was shut down, Andromeda was effectively canceled and Mass Effect put on ice. Even if you have no idea what transpired before, something, somewhere, must have gone incredibly wrong for Andromeda to have suffered such a fate. And it wasn't Breath of the Wild's fault And you can say I'm wrong, but then you have to explain what caused all that aftermath. A franchise doesn't go from peak with ME3, to "ice" with Andromeda. If you can't refute it, then it's true.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
10036
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2020 15:49:35 GMT
That does not somehow negate the need to go all the way back to the Nexus to talk to the quest giver while it could have easily been finished automatically. Sure. You'll return to the Nexus. But it's yet another person you need to talk to in a tsunami of useless fetch quests. It is an additional unnecessary step, making it feel like filler. I guess you and I will never agree on anything. I can agree with your premise that MEA has a fair bit of backtracking, some of which felt like a waste of time. Best example imho is that movie night questline, which sends you all over the cluster to fetch piddly crap. I wouldn't toss the transmission towers into that group, though. Extending comm capabilities as settlements are developed feels worthwhile to me. Yet, the only places it sends you are the game hubs. It would have been nice if they borrowed the way we could connect stores to Normandy in ME3 and applied that to the purchase terminal on Tempest at a small markup for delivery.
|
|
Polka Dot
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 679 Likes: 1,207
inherit
10957
0
Feb 14, 2019 20:07:41 GMT
1,207
Polka Dot
679
Feb 14, 2019 18:50:29 GMT
February 2019
polkadot
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Polka Dot on Feb 19, 2020 15:55:34 GMT
How did ME3 break Mass Effect? We had a thing going on, at the time of ME3's launch, where the BSN was on flames for a while. You might remember it. Was a big thing back then, but it's been 8 years. It's logical you might not remember it. I mean, disregarding the uproar entirely, you can tell its after effects, by the fact that Montreal was shut down, Andromeda was effectively canceled and Mass Effect put on ice. Even if you have no idea what transpired before, something, somewhere, must have gone incredibly wrong for Andromeda to have suffered such a fate. And it wasn't Breath of the Wild's fault And you can say I'm wrong, but then you have to explain what caused all that aftermath. A franchise doesn't go from peak with ME3, to "ice" with Andromeda. If you can't refute it, then it's true. Your methods remind me a lot of certain... op-ed "news" headliners with a habit of cherry-picking a set of half-truths, putting them into the pot, and fabricating a narrative from whole cloth.
|
|
inherit
Glorious Star Lord
822
0
16,819
KaiserShep
Party like it's 2023!
9,233
August 2016
kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by KaiserShep on Feb 19, 2020 15:56:03 GMT
That doesn't really change with Andromeda. Revisiting those random events sites a dozen time to get the item to spawn has the enemies spawning again and again in the same place. Not abasolutelly the same individual mook in the exact same place at the exact same time every time. I've had even architect encounters that have varied significantly from playthrough to playthrough... and they are, for the most part, scripted. However, the numbers of mooks that spawn and how many times the architect will go into "making babies" mode depends a lot on how quickly you whittle away at its health. Also, there are simply a lot more locations and missions in the game, so I haven't got it all memorized yet. Quest starters, like bodies to scan or datapads are also clearly random and don't appear in the same order and at the exact same site every single playthrough. So, while spawns are not completely random, it seems a lot more random and more difficult to predict with absolute certainty than any of the Trilogy games ever did. The randomly generated scan points and datapads are actually kind of annoying. Most tasks in this game go unfinished because I just can't bring myself to wander around to find them.
|
|
inherit
9459
0
Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
5,628
SirSourpuss
7,694
Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
|
Post by SirSourpuss on Feb 19, 2020 16:06:48 GMT
Your methods remind me a lot of certain... op-ed "news" headliners with a habit of cherry-picking a set of half-truths, putting them into the pot, and fabricating a narrative from whole cloth. Half truths? There is no half truth. All of the things that I said are true. ME3 created a BSN shitstorm, the likes of which had never been seen before, damage control on the side of Bioware was through the roof, Bioware Montreal was closed down, Andromeda was, effectively, abandoned and Mass Effect was put on ice. Are you saying that Breath of the Wild, a Switch exclusive, hurt Andromeda's sales?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
10036
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2020 16:11:13 GMT
Not abasolutelly the same individual mook in the exact same place at the exact same time every time. I've had even architect encounters that have varied significantly from playthrough to playthrough... and they are, for the most part, scripted. However, the numbers of mooks that spawn and how many times the architect will go into "making babies" mode depends a lot on how quickly you whittle away at its health. Also, there are simply a lot more locations and missions in the game, so I haven't got it all memorized yet. Quest starters, like bodies to scan or datapads are also clearly random and don't appear in the same order and at the exact same site every single playthrough. So, while spawns are not completely random, it seems a lot more random and more difficult to predict with absolute certainty than any of the Trilogy games ever did. The randomly generated scan points and datapads are actually kind of annoying. Most tasks in this game go unfinished because I just can't bring myself to wander around to find them. So, then the answer to that is to have all quests given to the player by talking to people at the game hubs (but not to have them pop into our menu by overhearing a conversation as it was in ME3, which received no end of complaints from players). Of course, this would necessitate wandering around the hubs clicking on everyone to figure out which ones are ready to give us a quest at that particular point in the story).
I don't mind the random encounters generating some tasks. If I don't trigger them then that game just does without them. It's not like I wander around the world IRL asking everyone I might meet on the street if they have something I can do for them nor do I lament about the people I never meet having something that I might have done for them. I find the randomness of what tasks I might do or not do in each playthrough changes up the playthrough a bit. Not every run is exactly the same since I might get this quest one time and not another. It's a major plus for me with other games, like Fallout 4. I may meet a certain NPC in one run that I've never met before in any previous run. It adds variety and spontaneity.
Where I think ME:A went wrong with it, was requiring 3 or 4 datapads or corpses be found before SAM to give us the coordinates for the task event. Had they all be triggered by single finds, I don't think anyone would be worried about them not necessarily all triggering in every playthrough. The issue was having these items listed in the journal that could only be completed by triggering more of the random encounters fo the same "type."
|
|
inherit
Glorious Star Lord
822
0
16,819
KaiserShep
Party like it's 2023!
9,233
August 2016
kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by KaiserShep on Feb 19, 2020 16:11:18 GMT
I can actually see an argument for ME3 breaking Mass Effect, at least in terms of its particular setting. The Milky Way is now devoid of any future story potential. Doesn't matter how many hundreds or even thousands of years you choose to move forward. The Crucible decision is so widespread and permanent, it's like making plans to go to a theme park after the place was carpet-bombed the week prior.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
10036
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2020 16:21:59 GMT
I can actually see an argument for ME3 breaking Mass Effect, at least in terms of its particular setting. The Milky Way is now devoid of any future story potential. Doesn't matter how many hundreds or even thousands of years you choose to move forward. The Crucible decision is so widespread and permanent, it's like making plans to go to a theme park after the place was carpet-bombed the week prior. Is that "breaking" the story... or just ending it with a finale that is actually a finale. Again, the reset of the setting can be done with an interceding catastrophe that wipes out whatever the result of the Crucible being fired... wiping out all the species that were involved in that story, including humanity. The settings remain. The relays were effectively destroyed in every ending. The buildings and everything on the planets were already effectively reduced to rubble during the course of the war. It just requires a clean break with the OT story and species. The next story could be totally about aliens that have not yet even been shown to us... or about the Yahg rebuilding the relays, etc. It's the fans imposing their versions of what they want to keep of the OT in terms of characters and species on the setting and some just clearly want an affirmation of their "choice" as being the "right" one. The setting itself is not broken.
|
|
Polka Dot
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 679 Likes: 1,207
inherit
10957
0
Feb 14, 2019 20:07:41 GMT
1,207
Polka Dot
679
Feb 14, 2019 18:50:29 GMT
February 2019
polkadot
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Polka Dot on Feb 19, 2020 16:23:58 GMT
I can actually see an argument for ME3 breaking Mass Effect, at least in terms of its particular setting. The Milky Way is now devoid of any future story potential. Doesn't matter how many hundreds or even thousands of years you choose to move forward. The Crucible decision is so widespread and permanent, it's like making plans to go to a theme park after the place was carpet-bombed the week prior. While that's true, it may have been their intention all along. I think sometimes we forget that ME was designed to be a trilogy from its inception. They delivered the 3 games they'd planned/promised, and struck the set(ting) when it wrapped. Then they decided there was still something in the various species and lore they could exploit in a new setting, and Andromeda was born.
|
|
inherit
Glorious Star Lord
822
0
16,819
KaiserShep
Party like it's 2023!
9,233
August 2016
kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by KaiserShep on Feb 19, 2020 16:32:06 GMT
I can actually see an argument for ME3 breaking Mass Effect, at least in terms of its particular setting. The Milky Way is now devoid of any future story potential. Doesn't matter how many hundreds or even thousands of years you choose to move forward. The Crucible decision is so widespread and permanent, it's like making plans to go to a theme park after the place was carpet-bombed the week prior. Is that "breaking" the story... or just ending it with a finale that is actually a finale. Again, the reset of the setting can be done with an interceding catastrophe that wipes out whatever the result of the Crucible being fired... wiping out all the species that were involved in that story, including humanity. The settings remain. The relays were effectively destroyed in every ending. The buildings and everything on the planets were already effectively reduced to rubble during the course of the war. It just requires a clean break with the OT story and species. The next story could be totally about aliens that have not yet even been shown to us... or about the Yahg rebuilding the relays, etc. It's the fans imposing their versions of what they want to keep of the OT in terms of characters and species on the setting and some just clearly want an affirmation of their "choice" as being the "right" one. The setting itself is not broken.
Well, perhaps both? One of the things I dislike about the ending of ME3 is that it really plays up this idea that the inherent differences between organics and synthetics totally dooms them. Over time I've come to really hate this particular scifi trope, and it becomes harder and harder to buy entirely as time goes on (we will befriend a microwave if it had a fun voice). That aside, it's the existence of the Synthesis choice that, at its core, kind of works hard against my investment in the universe. Even if I actively oppose it and destroy, even that is framed, or at least attempted to be framed by the game's god-in-the-machine, that this choice is supposed to be doomed because there's some sort of inevitability that our biases and hatred toward synthetic beings will be our undoing. I will agree though that there was a clear sense of finality to the whole thing, just terribly botched in execution. So maybe my insistence that future stories no longer had potential is a moot point, because they likey intended for no such thing to happen anyway. That much is clear with the fact that 3 whole species get to go extinct in a single game (4 if you let the non-clone Rachni queen die).
|
|
inherit
9459
0
Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
5,628
SirSourpuss
7,694
Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
|
Post by SirSourpuss on Feb 19, 2020 16:53:54 GMT
The setting itself is not broken So, if the only way forward is to nuke everything out of existence (the lore, the tech, the species, everything), how is the setting not broken? And what would break the setting, according to you?
|
|
inherit
10735
0
Jul 17, 2022 15:59:28 GMT
362
sassafrassa
292
January 2019
sassafrassa
|
Post by sassafrassa on Feb 19, 2020 17:02:34 GMT
Considering Shepard's story began with the Reapers and the Reapers are now, one way or another, neutralized... I don't see the narrative purpose in doing another Shepard story. This is the perfect point to move on to a different protagonist.
|
|
inherit
9459
0
Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
5,628
SirSourpuss
7,694
Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
|
Post by SirSourpuss on Feb 19, 2020 17:11:57 GMT
Considering Shepard's story began with the Reapers and the Reapers are now, one way or another, neutralized... I don't see the narrative purpose in doing another Shepard story. This is the perfect point to move on to a different protagonist. We did that. And I don't see how the Reapers being neutralized means we can't do anything more with a character. Heroes overcome enemies all the time, in literature/movies/tv and continue their stories with new obstacles. The X-Men have defeated Magneto, the brood, the brotherhood of evil mutants, the morloks, Apocalypse, Holocaust, Mister Sinister etc. and we still have the Chris Clairmont characters going on Adventures. Star Trek had its characters facing a multitude of adversaries, per run. I don't remember TNG stopping the moment they beat the Borg the first time. TNG especially started with the Borg threat on the very first episode.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
946
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2020 17:46:25 GMT
We had a thing going on, at the time of ME3's launch, where the BSN was on flames for a while. You might remember it. Was a big thing back then, but it's been 8 years. It's logical you might not remember it. I mean, disregarding the uproar entirely, you can tell its after effects, by the fact that Montreal was shut down, Andromeda was effectively canceled and Mass Effect put on ice. Even if you have no idea what transpired before, something, somewhere, must have gone incredibly wrong for Andromeda to have suffered such a fate. And you can say I'm wrong, but then you have to explain what caused all that aftermath. A franchise doesn't go from peak with ME3, to "ice" with Andromeda. If you can't refute it, then it's true I'm fully aware of the ME3 ending controversy. I only spent the last 8 years talking about it. I've read pretty much all the major arguments for and against it. Ultimately, for Biowsre there was no way to satisfy both the people who were satisfied, and those who had issues. Some people thought the ending should stay the same. Others asked for more clarification and closure. Finally, some even wanted Bioware to rewrite the ending completely from scratch. Ultimately, Bioware chose the middle option. The reason why people still bring it up, is because those people who are still unsatisfied to this day feel Bioware didn't listen to any of their complaints. Now there is a fine line between listening and actually taking that feedback into account. Bioware did listen, but they did not agree with their feedback. Do nothing and keep everything as is, people will complain. Meet people halfway with more closure and clarification, and those who wanted the ending scrapped will be upset. Scrap the ending and redo everything according to the most vocal anti-ending crowd, and you might end up pissing off the first two crowds. I don't see the connection between ME3's ending controversy and Andromeda. Andromeda is separate from ME3, and in their own words "it's not called Mass Effect 4, damn it"! That would imply a direct sequel to ME3. Andromeda had issues, but after reading several articles on the matter, it is very complicated issue. It wasn't just the animations. They were flying blind for the better part of 2/3 of the game's development. Using and wrestling with the wrong set of tools to build the game (Frostbite). Many internal arguments. Burned out and depressed workers. SJWs breathing down their neck.
If there was a connection between Andromeda and ME3's ending, it's probably because those people didn't want Andromeda. Instead, they wanted ME4 with Shepard and crew. They wanted Bioware to take the opportunity to create a sequel to ME3 while at the same time fixing the ending issues once and for all. They didn't get ME4 and so they claim that Andromeda is an excuse for skipping over and not addressing the ending issues. Most of those people fail to realize that there wasn't going to be an ME4. Mass Effect from the very beginning was designed as a trilogy. After you beat ME3, that is the end of the story.
|
|
inherit
9459
0
Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
5,628
SirSourpuss
7,694
Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
|
Post by SirSourpuss on Feb 19, 2020 17:52:20 GMT
Shepard is more than 75% likely dead. Even in Destroy he's almost certainly dead. The surviving Shep has so little odds that it wouldn't be worth it. Even if alive, Shep would have to be retired. Though I'm loathe to admit it, I'd suggest setting the series just a tad beyond Liara's lifespan. (Sorry not sorry but the fact that she even made it into MEA is so damn annoying.) I guess I'm starting to come around to the idea that if the setting is far enough in the future nearly any ending could work other than Refusal. Even then, using tactics like the Protheans did might allow for survivors of each race. If you're going to set the game in a post Reapers setting, where the endings are handwaved away, you are basically admitting that all the choices were stupid and can't or won't stand up for your "artistic integrity", while enabling the problems that players originally had with the game, persist. Which, quite frankly, I find it to be disrespectful in its entirety. It's like making Star Wars Episode 10 with the new Rey-public and Rey's Jedi Academy instead of Luke's. At which point you would be continuing the "natural" timeline, by shitting on everything that happened in the OT and making it pointless. Now, I can't speak for everyone, but I am not interested in that.
Furthermore, as I've already said in other posts, considering the destruction of Reaper tech with the crucible firing and the destruction of the relays, which we hadn't been reverse engineered, the need for new tech to replace the old tech would arise, eventually zoning Mass Effect technology entirely out of the setting. At which point you can't have Mass Effect. Unlike other settings, like Star Trek, which only requires Stars and Trekking, Mass Effect would only find use in a limited timeline in the setting, after which it would become irrelevant. So you need it to take place within that time period. The Initiative is already playing at the point where Mass Effect technology is petering out, at the brink of new tech. You need the theme of your setting to be prevalent in your IP, otherwise you break that IP.
|
|
sjsharp2010
N7
Go Team!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 12,337 Likes: 20,321
inherit
2309
0
20,321
sjsharp2010
Go Team!
12,337
December 2016
sjsharp2010
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
|
Post by sjsharp2010 on Feb 19, 2020 18:04:18 GMT
We had a thing going on, at the time of ME3's launch, where the BSN was on flames for a while. You might remember it. Was a big thing back then, but it's been 8 years. It's logical you might not remember it. I mean, disregarding the uproar entirely, you can tell its after effects, by the fact that Montreal was shut down, Andromeda was effectively canceled and Mass Effect put on ice. Even if you have no idea what transpired before, something, somewhere, must have gone incredibly wrong for Andromeda to have suffered such a fate. And you can say I'm wrong, but then you have to explain what caused all that aftermath. A franchise doesn't go from peak with ME3, to "ice" with Andromeda. If you can't refute it, then it's true I'm fully aware of the ME3 ending controversy. I only spent the last 8 years talking about it. I've read pretty much all the major arguments for and against it. Ultimately, for Biowsre there was no way to satisfy both the people who were satisfied, and those who had issues. Some people thought the ending should stay the same. Others asked for more clarification and closure. Finally, some even wanted Bioware to rewrite the ending completely from scratch. Ultimately, Bioware chose the middle option. The reason why people still bring it up, is because those people who are still unsatisfied to this day feel Bioware didn't listen to any of their complaints. Now there is a fine line between listening and actually taking that feedback into account. Do nothing and keep everything as is, people will complain. Meet people halfway with more closure and clarification, and those who wanted the ending scrapped will be upset. Scrap the ending and redo everything according to the most vocal anti-ending crowd, and you might end up pissing off the first two crowds. I don't see the connection between ME3's ending controversy and Andromeda. Andromeda is separate from ME3, and in their own words "it's not called Mass Effect 4, damn it"! That would imply a direct sequel to ME3. Andromeda had issues, but after reading several articles on the matter, it is very complicated issue. It wasn't just the animations. They were flying blind for the better part of 2/3 of the game's development. Using and wrestling with the wrong set of tools to build the game (Frostbite). Many internal arguments. Burned out and depressed workers. SJWs breathing down their neck.
If there was a connection between Andromeda and ME3's ending, it's probably because those people didn't want Andromeda. Instead, they wanted ME4 with Shepard and crew. They wanted Bioware to take the opportunity to create a sequel to ME3 while at the same time fixing the ending issues once and for all. They didn't get ME4 and so they claim that Andromeda is an excuse for skipping over and not addressing the ending issues.
Indeed makes you wonder how they even got a game out in the first place doesn't it? I'm grateful they did though
|
|
inherit
10735
0
Jul 17, 2022 15:59:28 GMT
362
sassafrassa
292
January 2019
sassafrassa
|
Post by sassafrassa on Feb 19, 2020 18:09:06 GMT
We did that. And I don't see how the Reapers being neutralized means we can't do anything more with a character. You certainly can but should you? I don't see any compelling reason to continue with the Shepard character. There is a lot more creative potential in exploring a new character. As well, if you continue with Shepard there is more of a need to further increase the stakes and top the previous three entries in the trilogy. Considering Shepard saved the galaxy in ME3 and defeated a galaxy-spanning, billion year-old threat, it seems to me that it'd be ridiculous to try and top that. Why do you want Shepard back? Heroes overcome enemies all the time, in literature/movies/tv and continue their stories with new obstacles. The X-Men have defeated Magneto, the brood, the brotherhood of evil mutants, the morloks, Apocalypse, Holocaust, Mister Sinister etc. and we still have the Chris Clairmont characters going on Adventures. Star Trek had its characters facing a multitude of adversaries, per run. I don't remember TNG stopping the moment they beat the Borg the first time. TNG especially started with the Borg threat on the very first episode. I don't think Mass Effect should try to emulate comic books. I think they're kind of lame precisely because it is just one crisis after another with no real resolution. A periodic reboot, and then it's right back to villain of the week. It's all very childish. Your example with TNG makes no sense because the Borg were never the central villains of TNG; they were just one villain among many. TNG wasn't about villains anyway; it was about Picard and his crew. TNG opened with Q putting Picard on trial as a stand-in for the human race. He was testing humanity to judge how worthy they were to explore space and how prepared they were. At the end of the episode he decides the trial is on-going and leaves, periodically returning to test Picard and his crew. Then in the final episode he hosts the ending to the trial. It brings everything full circle and the series ends; the story set-up at the start of the series is finished and so the series is too. ME1 begins with Shepard becoming the First Human Spectre. The narrative and themes push very strongly the message that Shepard will be deciding the future standing and reputation of the human race as well as the fate of the galaxy. That is what Spectres are tasked with, after all. In fact, this is evident in Shepard's name. So what do we see in the next games? Shepard does all of that and at the end of ME3 it is up to Shepard to lead the galaxy in its fight for survival and to ultimately decide what its future will be. The story has been told. The story ends. Now with that said, I do sympathize with your desire for more of an "anthology" about the adventures of Commander Shepard. However for that to work the series would need to start that way. Instead we got a trilogy; three segments of one broad, over-arching story. As poorly told as it might have been. The stories are not stand-alone. You certainly could imagine how the series might be re-imagined with Shepard having several, not directly connected, adventures that determine his/her legacy and that of humanity, and the state of the galaxy. I've written about that very idea myself many times because I actually prefer it to the "Reaper Story".
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
10036
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2020 18:12:59 GMT
The setting itself is not broken So, if the only way forward is to nuke everything out of existence (the lore, the tech, the species, everything), how is the setting not broken? And what would break the setting, according to you? The setting remains. The galaxy remains left as it was at the end of the Reaper war - which is essentially already destroyed long before the ending came along. The species and the characters are not the setting. As I said, the setting could pick up with the yahg discovering how to rebuild the relays.
Do we know that the Reapers actually sealed the relays as they left the galaxy after successfully harvesting the Protheans? All that is just history based on examination of scant archaeological evidence. Perhaps "frozen" is how they were left damaged after the end of the Prothean cycle. Maybe it is truly a Kobayashi Maru... whatever Shepard does doesn't stop the cycle from ending and from whoever participated in that cycle from going extinct (including the current set of Reapers). A force bigger than even the Reapers is controlling the "dark energy" the drives the ME Universe.
Perhaps the current cycle Reapers only believe they were part of the Prothean harvest... maybe the Reapers themselves are wiped out after every cycle and new ones are built by an unknowable species that resides in dark space and provided with a "manufactured history" they believe in.. much like the Angara were given a manufactured history by the Jardaan in ME:A. Perhaps it all connects on a deeper level than the fans currently believe.
Andromeda is a means of allowing humanity and the other species to survive into the next cycle... just as Javik survived into the next cycle when he wasn't supposed to. It allows us to continue to play as a human within the next cycle. The only thing that needs to happen IS that Shepard's choice becomes unimportant... that there was indeed no way he/she could "win" (just as Barla Von predicted very near the start of Shepard's story. "No matter how long you play, no matter how many secrets you buy, you can never win.")
|
|
inherit
10735
0
Jul 17, 2022 15:59:28 GMT
362
sassafrassa
292
January 2019
sassafrassa
|
Post by sassafrassa on Feb 19, 2020 18:13:01 GMT
I don't see the connection between ME3's ending controversy and Andromeda. The reason Mass Effect 4 had to be set in Andromeda was precisely because ME3 threw the entire setting into the creative trashcan, so to speak. It would have and still is fairly difficult to write a follow-up to ME3 that doesn't retcon the whole ending out of existence. More or less. It could be done. I could do it, but it's a risk and people are going to be understandably put off no matter what you do. The tragedy is that this is something which could have been avoided; ME3's ending is poorly conceived, makes no sense, conflicts with the games own themes, and harms the creative potential of the IP. Oh well, what's done is done.
|
|
inherit
10735
0
Jul 17, 2022 15:59:28 GMT
362
sassafrassa
292
January 2019
sassafrassa
|
Post by sassafrassa on Feb 19, 2020 18:22:45 GMT
If you're going to set the game in a post Reapers setting, where the endings are handwaved away, you are basically admitting that all the choices were stupid A lot of them were stupid or were lazily implemented, yes. The bad writing is the main reason Mass Effect has gotten into this mess. The problem started with ME2, reached critical levels with ME3, and ridiculous levels with ME:A. Which, quite frankly, I find it to be disrespectful in its entirety. Disrespectful to whom? The players or the developers? I myself would like complicated consequences to the choices we make, but we have to be realistic about this. The devs only have so much time, money, and disc space. The outcome of choices has to be limited and needs to be workable. We can't have the universe go through too man permunations or else we wind up with outcomes so varied that you can't work everyone's unique adventure into the same sequel. This is just a practical limitation of the concept. Furthermore, as I've already said in other posts, considering the destruction of Reaper tech with the crucible firing and the destruction of the relays, which we hadn't been reverse engineered, the need for new tech to replace the old tech would arise, That which has been destroyed can be recreated. You are also misunderstanding the core of Mass Effect; it isn't element zero, it is choice and consequence. Small things lead to a cascade of effects that have bigger and bigger implications. It might be a simple element, like element zero, which leads to mass manipulation, which leads to faster than light travel, which leads to different species colliding, which leads to galactic civilization, and so forth. Or it might be little things relegated just to characters. To save his men a general surrenders to an alien fleet, this means he becomes a pariah, this means his son and granddaughter fight to earn back the families respect, it means the granddaughter has her political opinions shaped by this experience, it means she has a death wish and does die or nearly dies in battle. The specific technology of Mass Effect isn't all that important to the concept. In any case, we know the Reapers invented Mass Relays and we know the Protheans were able to create them on their own after studying the Mass Relays. With all that debris still around it is totally probable that the galaxy could, with time and effort, rebuild the relays. Once again, that which as been destroyed can be recreated. The Crucible didn't destroy all traces of Reaper tech or delete the possibility of it from the universe. It's just technology, based on the physical principles of the setting, and those principles haven't gone anywhere.
|
|