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Post by SirSourpuss on Feb 19, 2020 18:23:50 GMT
Ultimately, for Biowsre there was no way to satisfy both the people who were satisfied, and those who had issues So you're saying there's no way Bioware could make a good ending, so we should accept one that is bad. That hasn't worked in 8 years now. Some people thought the ending should stay the same And for the life of me I can't see why. Others asked for more clarification and closure Nobody asked for clarification and closure. The endings were bad and people rejected them for being bad. We even had a long, pretentious video by Colin Moriarty telling us how entitled we were for wanting the ending changed, not clarified. Bioware came up with the "clarification and closure" line, not us. Finally, some even wanted Bioware to rewrite the ending completely from scratch That's not some. That was all the people that had a problem with it. Ultimately, Bioware chose the middle option Bioware had doubled down on the "Artistic Integrity" too much, by that point to back down. When they got the OK for EA to do something about it, they had argued against it too much to back down then, without looking like complete idiots. Which they looked like regardless. The reason why people still bring it up, is because those people who are still unsatisfied to this day feel Bioware didn't listen to any of their complaints It's not a feeling. It's a fact. Bioware didn't listen to the complaints. Now there is a fine line between listening and actually taking that feedback into account. Sure. Disney did that to Lucas. Didn't work that well in the end, though. Do nothing and keep everything as is, people will complain. Meet people halfway with more closure and clarification, and those who wanted the ending scrapped will be upset. Scrap the ending and redo everything according to the most vocal anti-ending crowd, and you might end up pissing off the first two crowds. But you are assuming that even the people that liked the endings are impossible to please and no other ending could be better to the one we got. Which is simply not the case. I don't see the connection between ME3's ending controversy and Andromeda It is a continuation of a huge franchise, the first title in the franchise in 5 years, with a new protagonist, in a new galaxy, a whole fresh new start and figuratively nobody cared for it. Sold at ME2 levels, with a budget of 100 million CAD. Had a worse release out the gate than ME3 and in a time where the popularity of the medium had exploded to new heights. Initial sales were low because of market interest. People just didn't want it, after ME3, it's all there, I've shown the data many times before. Andromeda is separate from ME3, and in their own words "it's not called Mass Effect 4, damn it"! That would imply a direct sequel to ME3 It didn't matter, in the end. People didn't want it. Or, to put it in a better way, not enough people wanted it. Andromeda had issues, but after reading several articles on the matter, it is very complicated issue. It wasn't just the animations. They were flying blind for the better part of 2/3 of the game's development. Using and wrestling with the wrong set of tools to build the game (Frostbite). Many internal arguments. Burned out and depressed workers. SJWs breathing down their neck. But that is post launch. Inquisition had the most pre-orders than any other Bioware game, based on "best Bioware launch". Where were Andromeda's?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2020 18:33:00 GMT
Therw's really no need for ME4.
ME3's ending only has issues if you took it literally. I didn't find that the ending was out of place.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Feb 19, 2020 18:40:47 GMT
If there was a connection between Andromeda and ME3's ending, it's probably because those people didn't want Andromeda. Instead, they wanted ME4 with Shepard and crew. They wanted Bioware to take the opportunity to create a sequel to ME3 while at the same time fixing the ending issues once and for all. They didn't get ME4 and so they claim that Andromeda is an excuse for skipping over and not addressing the ending issues. Most of those people fail to realize that there wasn't going to be an ME4. Mass Effect from the very beginning was designed as a trilogy. After you beat ME3, that is the end of the story. But that is not the fans' problem. If Bioware can't make a game and sell it to them, that is Bioware's problem. Not the fans'. If I am a potential customer of something, but your product isn't what I am looking for, then getting my money is your problem. I can keep my money in my pocket and I will be fine. Bioware can't force people to buy something they don't want. Disney couldn't sell Star Wars fans to The Rise of Skywalker. What makes Bioware think they can?
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Post by SirSourpuss on Feb 19, 2020 18:44:19 GMT
How? You said to wipe everything, even the species. The galaxy remains left as it was at the end of the Reaper war - which is essentially already destroyed long before the ending came along. Which means everything died? Refusal style harvested? The species and the characters are not the setting There's more to the setting than that, true. I don't see how you can sell that, but okay ... As I said, the setting could pick up with the yahg discovering how to rebuild the relays. So we're not in a refusal ending. But everyone's dead. None of that happens in the endings we got, so you are basically erasing them, without Bioware's consent, but OK. As I said, the setting could pick up with the yahg discovering how to rebuild the relays. From the unworking remains of the relays? I don't see why the Yahg would even bother. I mean, we couldn't figure them out in a thousand years, with all the resources in the galaxy, by the time the Yahg would reverse engineer them from that state, they would have developed other technologies, to compensate for that. There would be no need for relays at all. Do we know that the Reapers actually sealed the relays as they left the galaxy after successfully harvesting the Protheans? All that is just history based on examination of scant archaeological evidence. Perhaps "frozen" is how they were left damaged after the end of the Prothean cycle. If I recall, in ME1 we find out that each cluster has its own relay, left there by the Reapers, ours was just encased in ice, which is why didn't know it was there. Apparently, everyone else just found them, either in their solar system, or the neighbouring one. At least, that's how I understood that. Perhaps the current cycle Reapers only believe they were part of the Prothean harvest Uh ... what? maybe the Reapers themselves are wiped out after every cycle and new ones are built by an unknowable species that resides in dark space and provided with a "manufactured history" they believe in.. much like the Angara were given a manufactured history by the Jardaan in ME:A. Perhaps it all connects on a deeper level than the fans currently believe. Uh ... okay? I'm not sure I understand the point of this at all. Sounds contrived and nonsensical, but then again, this is Mass Effect. I'd be used to it by now.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2020 19:08:49 GMT
How? You said to wipe everything, even the species. The galaxy remains left as it was at the end of the Reaper war - which is essentially already destroyed long before the ending came along. Which means everything died? Refusal style harvested? The species and the characters are not the setting There's more to the setting than that, true. I don't see how you can sell that, but okay ... As I said, the setting could pick up with the yahg discovering how to rebuild the relays. So we're not in a refusal ending. But everyone's dead. None of that happens in the endings we got, so you are basically erasing them, without Bioware's consent, but OK. As I said, the setting could pick up with the yahg discovering how to rebuild the relays. From the unworking remains of the relays? I don't see why the Yahg would even bother. I mean, we couldn't figure them out in a thousand years, with all the resources in the galaxy, by the time the Yahg would reverse engineer them from that state, they would have developed other technologies, to compensate for that. There would be no need for relays at all. Do we know that the Reapers actually sealed the relays as they left the galaxy after successfully harvesting the Protheans? All that is just history based on examination of scant archaeological evidence. Perhaps "frozen" is how they were left damaged after the end of the Prothean cycle. If I recall, in ME1 we find out that each cluster has its own relay, left there by the Reapers, ours was just encased in ice, which is why didn't know it was there. Apparently, everyone else just found them, either in their solar system, or the neighbouring one. At least, that's how I understood that. Perhaps the current cycle Reapers only believe they were part of the Prothean harvest Uh ... what? maybe the Reapers themselves are wiped out after every cycle and new ones are built by an unknowable species that resides in dark space and provided with a "manufactured history" they believe in.. much like the Angara were given a manufactured history by the Jardaan in ME:A. Perhaps it all connects on a deeper level than the fans currently believe. Uh ... okay? I'm not sure I understand the point of this at all. Sounds contrived and nonsensical, but then again, this is Mass Effect. I'd be used to it by now. I'm going to ignore this incessant taking of snippets out of context - something you do constantly just to be as annoying as possible.. The only thing that is required for the series to move forward is to let go of Shepard and the insistence that Shepard's choice be important in such a way that it affect the state of the galaxy for all eternity. Andromeda already ensures that members of each species continue on unaffected by whatever Shepard did and any return to the Milky Way setting can simply occur after subsequent events have changed the setting to make the "supposed" ramifications of Shepard choice irrelevant.
It's not your job to "sell" any of it to anyone nor should Bioware care about bending over backwards to chase you and your money. It's not your job to "sell" them on any particular idea proposed by myself or any other person here. You do not represent gamers in general nor do you represent the current 12-year-olds (who will be 18 and in the target market when this game would be likely scheduled to be released). Bioware certainly does not have to bend over backwards to resurrect the ME2 characters who were shunted aside in ME3 BECAUSE their story was always irrelevant to the Reaper plot of ME1.
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Post by Ascend on Feb 19, 2020 19:19:28 GMT
I can actually see an argument for ME3 breaking Mass Effect, at least in terms of its particular setting. The Milky Way is now devoid of any future story potential. Doesn't matter how many hundreds or even thousands of years you choose to move forward. The Crucible decision is so widespread and permanent, it's like making plans to go to a theme park after the place was carpet-bombed the week prior. Where there's a will there's a way. Want a solution? Make it so that everything that happened after the Prothean Beacon on Eden Prime was actually part of Shepard's vision. Shepard never really woke up. The rest of ME, including all Mass Effect games (Including Andromeda) are all part of the vision. Full series reset. They can make, change, shift, ANYTHING they'd like. This would be great for a remaster btw. Second option: Shepard is actually dead at the end of ME2. The whole working for Cerberus in ME2 and Reaper invasion in ME3 were part of Shepard's hallucinations while falling to the planet. You wouldn't play as Shepard, but, you'd still be able to meet great characters and experience more of the milky way. Third option: An unforseen side-effect of the Crucible firing had such a huge effect on dark energy, that time reverted and brought us all the way back to before ME1. Third and a half option: The energy released by the Crucible was so strong that it created an alternate timeline where something completely different to all the endings happened. Mass Effect is only broken in as far as we're willing to sit in the corner crying about what we got, rather than thinking about possibilities of expanding the series. And I wouldn't be surprised if no one here likes these ideas. Emotional attachment is the killer of open-mindedness.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2020 19:22:19 GMT
I can actually see an argument for ME3 breaking Mass Effect, at least in terms of its particular setting. The Milky Way is now devoid of any future story potential. Doesn't matter how many hundreds or even thousands of years you choose to move forward. The Crucible decision is so widespread and permanent, it's like making plans to go to a theme park after the place was carpet-bombed the week prior. Where there's a will there's a way. Want a solution? Make it so that everything that happened after the Prothean Beacon on Eden Prime was actually part of Shepard's vision. Shepard never really woke up. The rest of ME, including all Mass Effect games (Including Andromeda) are all part of the vision. Full series reset. They can make, change, shift, ANYTHING they'd like. This would be great for a remaster btw. Second option: Shepard is actually dead at the end of ME2. The whole working for Cerberus in ME2 and Reaper invasion in ME3 were part of Shepard's hallucinations while falling to the planet. You wouldn't play as Shepard, but, you'd still be able to meet great characters and experience more of the milky way. Third option: An unforseen side-effect of the Crucible firing had such a huge effect on dark energy, that time reverted and brought us all the way back to before ME1. Third and a half option: The energy released by the Crucible was so strong that it created an alternate timeline where something completely different to all the endings happened. Mass Effect is only broken in as far as we're willing to sit in the corner crying about what we got, rather than thinking about possibilities of expanding the series. And I wouldn't be surprised if no one here likes these ideas. Emotional attachment is the killer of open-mindedness. Guess what? We agree on something.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Feb 19, 2020 19:22:32 GMT
You certainly can but should you? I don't see any compelling reason to continue with the Shepard character. Sales. That's a compelling reason. There is a lot more creative potential in exploring a new character Like canning the title, shutting the studio and shelving the franchise? I mean, it's potential, just not very creative. As well, if you continue with Shepard there is more of a need to further increase the stakes and top the previous three entries in the trilogy There's a lot of things you can do. You can up the stakes, or you can make something more cerebral or intellectual. You know, like Star Trek did every now and then. Funny that, isn't Star Trek one of the early inspirations for Mass Effect? Imagine doing something that mimics your spiritual predecessor. Considering Shepard saved the galaxy in ME3 and defeated a galaxy-spanning, billion year-old threat, it seems to me that it'd be ridiculous to try and top that. Yeah. Seems like a galaxy left exposed after an apocalyptic event, with various factions able to take over, since everything now is so cut off and low powered that anyone can make a power play, while the creators of the galaxy threatening force plot in the background certainly holds no possible setting story potential. I should stop making sarcastic comments like this, you are being far too kind with me to put up with my shit. So that's my suggestion, anyway. Why do you want Shepard back? Because I can sell Shepard. And if I can sell Shepard, Bioware can sell Shepard. Bioware can sell truckloads of Shepard, for every 1 Shepard I can sell. And they need a hit. EA knows they need a hit. I don't think Mass Effect should try to emulate comic books I'd like you to say that to Mac Walters. But more than that, we have heroes in all sorts of media making long running shows and TV series that return time and again. I mean, Supernatural has how many seasons? How many Fast & Furious movies? Hell, they are even bringing Paul Walker's character back in the next one. So it's not just in comic books, it's in all pop culture media. Nathan Drake had a great sendoff in Uncharted 3, but he was back in 4. I think they're kind of lame precisely because it is just one crisis after another with no real resolution. A periodic reboot, and then it's right back to villain of the week. It's all very childish It's a very childish medium, whose cinematic culmination made 3.5 billion dollars. And while recent comic book sales are down, because of terrible writers and bargain bin artists making truckloads of bad titles, in recent years, before the recession comic book sales of the top titles where in the multiple hundreds of thousands, where very profitable and told some very good stories, in spite of many of the heroes being around for decades. You can dismiss the comic book industry on a personal level, but you cannot refute its success. Your example with TNG makes no sense because the Borg were never the central villains of TNG; they were just one villain among many You don't say. TNG wasn't about villains anyway; it was about Picard and his crew You don't say. TNG opened with Q putting Picard on trial as a stand-in for the human race. He was testing humanity to judge how worthy they were to explore space and how prepared they were. At the end of the episode he decides the trial is on-going and leaves, periodically returning to test Picard and his crew. Then in the final episode he hosts the ending to the trial. It brings everything full circle and the series ends; the story set-up at the start of the series is finished and so the series is too Well, the game opens up with Shepard's Spectre trial, by that account, so I guess Shepard's story ends by the time he proves Saren's a no good double crosser? Because I could have sworn there's, like, two and a half games after that. The trial is a neat idea and Q could have decided to end it at any point, obviously. There is no set point in time, at which the series would end, other than the writers decided to do so. And even so, we had the movies afterward. Nobody says you have to stop. Especially when EA and money left on the table are involved. ME1 begins with Shepard becoming the First Human Spectre. The narrative and themes push very strongly the message that Shepard will be deciding the future standing and reputation of the human race as well as the fate of the galaxy. That is what Spectres are tasked with, after all. In fact, this is evident in Shepard's name. So what do we see in the next games? Shepard does all of that and at the end of ME3 it is up to Shepard to lead the galaxy in its fight for survival and to ultimately decide what its future will be. The story has been told. The story ends. That the story ends is merely your opinion. The truth is the story can go on for as long as you want it to. If you want to make it, you can make it. The question is whether or not you should. And should Bioware do it? Right now? They should. They need to. Now with that said, I do sympathize with your desire for more of an "anthology" about the adventures of Commander Shepard. However for that to work the series would need to start that way. Instead we got a trilogy; three segments of one broad, over-arching story. As poorly told as it might have been. The stories are not stand-alone. You certainly could imagine how the series might be re-imagined with Shepard having several, not directly connected, adventures that determine his/her legacy and that of humanity, and the state of the galaxy. I've written about that very idea myself many times because I actually prefer it to the "Reaper Story". Then how about you have your cake and eat it, too? No reason why it should be just one or the other.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Feb 19, 2020 19:26:09 GMT
Perhaps "deserve" isn't really the right word, but in theory, the new installments could have functioned just fine without him, as well as Leia and Han, since their story arcs were totally complete at that point. Disney was simply taking the easy route and letting nostalgia serve as a buttress for the new trilogy. But as a standalone, the Disney trilogy is worse than the Prequel trilogy and at least, if you're going to reuse the Original Trilogy cast, don't fuck them over. If Andromeda was made outside the OT, without the ME3 debacle, there would be a lot less bad blood between the community and Bioware. ME3 effectively broke Mass Effect. ME3 has no effect on Andromeda and the issues people have with it. Saying ME3 effected Andromeda is like those scooby doo villains saying "and I would have gotten away with it without you meddling kids." Even though no they wouldn't have because of the ridiculous overly complicated and over the top plan would have been foiled by an even half way competent police force. Or even out right killed by any startled person with a gun defending themselves.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Feb 19, 2020 19:28:51 GMT
I could do it, but it's a risk and people are going to be understandably put off no matter what you do. So butt hurt fans throwing a tantrum that their canon wasn't picked? Not really connecting it to ME3. Just that most players are whinny children that throw tantrums if they so much as think they are slighted in the smallest degree.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Feb 19, 2020 19:30:42 GMT
To the people you (not you, the developer) called stupid and entitled for disliking, but which you were perfectly willing to toss aside, because ultimately you couldn't stand by our own choice. I myself would like complicated consequences to the choices we make, but we have to be realistic about this. The devs only have so much time, money, and disc space. Not the fans' problem. The outcome of choices has to be limited and needs to be workable Well, they got 50% of that down. Too bad they missed the workable part. That which has been destroyed can be recreated. You are also misunderstanding the core of Mass Effect; it isn't element zero, it is choice and consequence It's the goddamn title. The point of the destruction of Reaper tech is to be free of Reaper tech. That is the implication of it, which is why Mac called us stupid, as if we didn't get it. We did get it, we didn't care for it. You can't make Star Trek about 3 people in pajamas eating calzones in their living rooms, why would you make Mass Effect, without Mass Effect? It's not Mass Effect. That's the one thing the goddamn setting needs to adhere to. Small things lead to a cascade of effects that have bigger and bigger implications. It might be a simple element, like element zero, which leads to mass manipulation, which leads to faster than light travel, which leads to different species colliding, which leads to galactic civilization, and so forth. Or it might be little things relegated just to characters. To save his men a general surrenders to an alien fleet, this means he becomes a pariah, this means his son and granddaughter fight to earn back the families respect, it means the granddaughter has her political opinions shaped by this experience, it means she has a death wish and does die or nearly dies in battle. The specific technology of Mass Effect isn't all that important to the concept. We didn't get meaningful choices, though. We got limitations on content. That's not a meaningful choice. So without choice and consequence, we only get the consequence part, which makes the "Mass Effect" part redundant, on that aspect.
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Post by Cyberstrike on Feb 19, 2020 19:31:21 GMT
How? You said to wipe everything, even the species. Which means everything died? Refusal style harvested? There's more to the setting than that, true. I don't see how you can sell that, but okay ... So we're not in a refusal ending. But everyone's dead. None of that happens in the endings we got, so you are basically erasing them, without Bioware's consent, but OK. From the unworking remains of the relays? I don't see why the Yahg would even bother. I mean, we couldn't figure them out in a thousand years, with all the resources in the galaxy, by the time the Yahg would reverse engineer them from that state, they would have developed other technologies, to compensate for that. There would be no need for relays at all. If I recall, in ME1 we find out that each cluster has its own relay, left there by the Reapers, ours was just encased in ice, which is why didn't know it was there. Apparently, everyone else just found them, either in their solar system, or the neighbouring one. At least, that's how I understood that. Uh ... what? Uh ... okay? I'm not sure I understand the point of this at all. Sounds contrived and nonsensical, but then again, this is Mass Effect. I'd be used to it by now. I'm going to ignore this incessant taking of snippets out of context - something you do constantly just to be as annoying as possible.. The only thing that is required for the series to move forward is to let go of Shepard and the insistence that Shepard's choice be important in such a way that it affect the state of the galaxy for all eternity. Andromeda already ensures that members of each species continue on unaffected by whatever Shepard did and any return to the Milky Way setting can simply occur after subsequent events have changed the setting to make the "supposed" ramifications of Shepard choice irrelevant.
It's not your job to "sell" any of it to anyone nor should Bioware care about bending over backwards to chase you and your money. You do not represent gamers in general nor do you represent the current 12-year-olds (who will be 18 and in the target market when this game would be likely scheduled to be released). Bioware certainly does not have to bend over backwards to resurrect the ME2 characters who were shunted aside in ME3 BECAUSE their story was always irrelevant to the Reaper plot of ME1.
Some people need to learn let it go. Seriously not everything in any franchise is going to be made for you. I love The Transformers but I hate the Micheal Bay movies, and the current cartoon show, Cyberverse is OK but I've seen a lot better TF TV shows and outside of the current War for Cybertron Trilogy Siege/Earthrise toyline the others like The Studio Series and Cyberverse don't appeal to me so I let them go.
I don't particularly care for the JJ Abrams/Kelvin timeline movies (other than for Star Trek: Beyond) so I don't watch them or read the comics and novels based on that version of the Star Trek. Now that CBS All Access has Star Trek: Discovery, Star Trek: Picard, and Star Trek: Short Treks I watch and enjoy them.
I don't like Anthem so I don't play it and try not to talk or think about it.
The same with Impact Wrestling, Star Wars, The MCU, The Arrowverse, The DCEU (especially the DCEU), and whatever else I'm into the parts that I don't like or get I tend to acknowledge that they exist and that were bad and/or I didn't get the appeal of them. Then I move on to the parts that I do like.
If I focus only on the parts that I don't like or get then I will lose my sanity and by learning to let go helps keep what little sanity I have left. Learn to let it go, now don't make me post the video of that song from Frozen.
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Post by Ascend on Feb 19, 2020 19:42:42 GMT
Where there's a will there's a way. Want a solution? Make it so that everything that happened after the Prothean Beacon on Eden Prime was actually part of Shepard's vision. Shepard never really woke up. The rest of ME, including all Mass Effect games (Including Andromeda) are all part of the vision. Full series reset. They can make, change, shift, ANYTHING they'd like. This would be great for a remaster btw. Second option: Shepard is actually dead at the end of ME2. The whole working for Cerberus in ME2 and Reaper invasion in ME3 were part of Shepard's hallucinations while falling to the planet. You wouldn't play as Shepard, but, you'd still be able to meet great characters and experience more of the milky way. Third option: An unforseen side-effect of the Crucible firing had such a huge effect on dark energy, that time reverted and brought us all the way back to before ME1. Third and a half option: The energy released by the Crucible was so strong that it created an alternate timeline where something completely different to all the endings happened. Mass Effect is only broken in as far as we're willing to sit in the corner crying about what we got, rather than thinking about possibilities of expanding the series. And I wouldn't be surprised if no one here likes these ideas. Emotional attachment is the killer of open-mindedness. Guess what? We agree on something. *inhales & squints*.... Unexpected.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 19, 2020 19:55:59 GMT
I can actually see an argument for ME3 breaking Mass Effect, at least in terms of its particular setting. The Milky Way is now devoid of any future story potential. Doesn't matter how many hundreds or even thousands of years you choose to move forward. The Crucible decision is so widespread and permanent, it's like making plans to go to a theme park after the place was carpet-bombed the week prior. Where there's a will there's a way. Want a solution? Make it so that everything that happened after the Prothean Beacon on Eden Prime was actually part of Shepard's vision. Shepard never really woke up. The rest of ME, including all Mass Effect games (Including Andromeda) are all part of the vision.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2020 20:06:23 GMT
Ultimately, for Biowsre there was no way to satisfy both the people who were satisfied, and those who had issues So you're saying there's no way Bioware could make a good ending, so we should accept one that is bad. That hasn't worked in 8 years now. Some people thought the ending should stay the same And for the life of me I can't see why. Others asked for more clarification and closure Nobody asked for clarification and closure. The endings were bad and people rejected them for being bad. We even had a long, pretentious video by Colin Moriarty telling us how entitled we were for wanting the ending changed, not clarified. Bioware came up with the "clarification and closure" line, not us. Finally, some even wanted Bioware to rewrite the ending completely from scratch That's not some. That was all the people that had a problem with it. Ultimately, Bioware chose the middle option Bioware had doubled down on the "Artistic Integrity" too much, by that point to back down. When they got the OK for EA to do something about it, they had argued against it too much to back down then, without looking like complete idiots. Which they looked like regardless. The reason why people still bring it up, is because those people who are still unsatisfied to this day feel Bioware didn't listen to any of their complaints It's not a feeling. It's a fact. Bioware didn't listen to the complaints. Now there is a fine line between listening and actually taking that feedback into account. Sure. Disney did that to Lucas. Didn't work that well in the end, though. Do nothing and keep everything as is, people will complain. Meet people halfway with more closure and clarification, and those who wanted the ending scrapped will be upset. Scrap the ending and redo everything according to the most vocal anti-ending crowd, and you might end up pissing off the first two crowds. But you are assuming that even the people that liked the endings are impossible to please and no other ending could be better to the one we got. Which is simply not the case. I don't see the connection between ME3's ending controversy and Andromeda It is a continuation of a huge franchise, the first title in the franchise in 5 years, with a new protagonist, in a new galaxy, a whole fresh new start and figuratively nobody cared for it. Sold at ME2 levels, with a budget of 100 million CAD. Had a worse release out the gate than ME3 and in a time where the popularity of the medium had exploded to new heights. Initial sales were low because of market interest. People just didn't want it, after ME3, it's all there, I've shown the data many times before. Andromeda is separate from ME3, and in their own words "it's not called Mass Effect 4, damn it"! That would imply a direct sequel to ME3 It didn't matter, in the end. People didn't want it. Or, to put it in a better way, not enough people wanted it. Andromeda had issues, but after reading several articles on the matter, it is very complicated issue. It wasn't just the animations. They were flying blind for the better part of 2/3 of the game's development. Using and wrestling with the wrong set of tools to build the game (Frostbite). Many internal arguments. Burned out and depressed workers. SJWs breathing down their neck. But that is post launch. Inquisition had the most pre-orders than any other Bioware game, based on "best Bioware launch". Where were Andromeda's? 1. Any "good" ending would have to be written in collaberation with the fans, and by their own admission, they wouldn't know how to write such a thing. What makes a "good" ending is subjective. Everyone has different ideas on that. 2. Some people like things others don't. That's just how it goes. 3. Yeah, I know. However rewriting the ending would not be in their best interest. At the end of the day, someone will be upset no matter what you do.
4. Well they stuck to their guns and stood behind their team. That doesn't mean they didn't listen to you. If they weren't listening they would have done nothing and left the original ending as is and not made the EC. People are just mad because they didn't give you what you want.
5. I didn't watch the new Star Wars films, so I can't comment. 6. If people liked the ending, they were satisfied. 7. I get it, you're saying they didn't want Andromeda, they wanted ME4. Well guess what? Bioware makes the games, and you choose whether not to buy it. 8. I heard it sold 2.5 million units and made them $100 million. Not bad.
Sorry writing on a tablet. Hard to quote things. Don't have my desktop with me.
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Post by smilesja on Feb 19, 2020 20:16:48 GMT
People are STILL arguing which ending was best for ME3, I'm not sure which fans will be catered to if Bioware decides to redo the ending. (Which they won't.)
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Post by themikefest on Feb 19, 2020 20:17:24 GMT
Shepard is more than 75% likely dead. Even in Destroy he's almost certainly dead. The surviving Shep has so little odds that it wouldn't be worth it. Even if alive, Shep would have to be retired. Even retired, it's possible for Shepard to go on one more mission especially if Hackett is the one to ask for his/her help for whatever the problem is. It wouldn't have to. Just don't include her in the game at all.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2020 20:24:22 GMT
I'm going to ignore this incessant taking of snippets out of context - something you do constantly just to be as annoying as possible.. The only thing that is required for the series to move forward is to let go of Shepard and the insistence that Shepard's choice be important in such a way that it affect the state of the galaxy for all eternity. Andromeda already ensures that members of each species continue on unaffected by whatever Shepard did and any return to the Milky Way setting can simply occur after subsequent events have changed the setting to make the "supposed" ramifications of Shepard choice irrelevant.
It's not your job to "sell" any of it to anyone nor should Bioware care about bending over backwards to chase you and your money. You do not represent gamers in general nor do you represent the current 12-year-olds (who will be 18 and in the target market when this game would be likely scheduled to be released). Bioware certainly does not have to bend over backwards to resurrect the ME2 characters who were shunted aside in ME3 BECAUSE their story was always irrelevant to the Reaper plot of ME1.
Some people need to learn let it go. Seriously not everything in any franchise is going to be made for you. I love The Transformers but I hate the Micheal Bay movies, and the current cartoon show, Cyberverse is OK but I've seen a lot better TF TV shows and outside of the current War for Cybertron Trilogy Siege/Earthrise toyline the others like The Studio Series and Cyberverse don't appeal to me so I let them go.
I don't particularly care for the JJ Abrams/Kelvin timeline movies (other than for Star Trek: Beyond) so I don't watch them or read the comics and novels based on that version of the Star Trek. Now that CBS All Access has Star Trek: Discovery, Star Trek: Picard, and Star Trek: Short Treks I watch and enjoy them.
I don't like Anthem so I don't play it and try not to talk or think about it.
The same with Impact Wrestling, Star Wars, The MCU, The Arrowverse, The DCEU (especially the DCEU), and whatever else I'm into the parts that I don't like or get I tend to acknowledge that they exist and that were bad and/or I didn't get the appeal of them. Then I move on to the parts that I do like.
If I focus only on the parts that I don't like or get then I will lose my sanity and by learning to let go helps keep what little sanity I have left. Learn to let it go, now don't make me post the video of that song from Frozen. I'm not sure why you've posted the last paragraph directed at me though, since I'm basically telling the person I was responding to that they need to let it go... but go ahead. I like the song from Frozen.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2020 20:26:37 GMT
Shepard is more than 75% likely dead. Even in Destroy he's almost certainly dead. The surviving Shep has so little odds that it wouldn't be worth it. Even if alive, Shep would have to be retired. Even retired, it's possible for Shepard to go on one more mission especially if Hackett is the one to ask for his/her help for whatever the problem is. Sounds too much like what they did with Jack Bauer. Jack says he's done, and CTU keeps pulling him back in for one more day. Make that 8 more days for 9 seasons.
I know for a fact that if Bioware did make another game with Shepard, it won't be the last.
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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 19, 2020 20:27:02 GMT
You certainly can but should you? I don't see any compelling reason to continue with the Shepard character. Sales. That's a compelling reason. OK, but compelling to whom? Sure, sales can translate to better support, thus more updates and DLC for fans to purchase and enjoy, but this is not something that addresses the actual prospects of what this new story brings players. In a hypothetical new game, would my Shepard just basically have the old cast again instead of getting a well-deserved retirement (perhaps with their selected love interest) after seeing some shit? What makes this prospect more compelling than getting a new character to create along with a new roster with a fresher dynamic (and of course a new character to romance because of course we would) to experience? Mileages vary, sure, but personally I find this option kind of depressing. You'd think after ending a galaxy-ending threat, a long time off doing something other than getting shot at would be a more satisfying conclusion.
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Post by Sanunes on Feb 19, 2020 20:34:26 GMT
I can actually see an argument for ME3 breaking Mass Effect, at least in terms of its particular setting. The Milky Way is now devoid of any future story potential. Doesn't matter how many hundreds or even thousands of years you choose to move forward. The Crucible decision is so widespread and permanent, it's like making plans to go to a theme park after the place was carpet-bombed the week prior. Where there's a will there's a way. Want a solution? Make it so that everything that happened after the Prothean Beacon on Eden Prime was actually part of Shepard's vision. Shepard never really woke up. The rest of ME, including all Mass Effect games (Including Andromeda) are all part of the vision. Full series reset. They can make, change, shift, ANYTHING they'd like. This would be great for a remaster btw. Second option: Shepard is actually dead at the end of ME2. The whole working for Cerberus in ME2 and Reaper invasion in ME3 were part of Shepard's hallucinations while falling to the planet. You wouldn't play as Shepard, but, you'd still be able to meet great characters and experience more of the milky way. Third option: An unforseen side-effect of the Crucible firing had such a huge effect on dark energy, that time reverted and brought us all the way back to before ME1. Third and a half option: The energy released by the Crucible was so strong that it created an alternate timeline where something completely different to all the endings happened. Mass Effect is only broken in as far as we're willing to sit in the corner crying about what we got, rather than thinking about possibilities of expanding the series. And I wouldn't be surprised if no one here likes these ideas. Emotional attachment is the killer of open-mindedness. Here is the problem with major changes or making something that is altered so its not directly from the original's take. You would get Mass Effect: Andromeda again. Just because they are using the same words to describe the names of characters it doesn't mean the game would be accepted by the community that wants to rip the game apart. Mass Effect Andromeda could have easily been a reboot of the Mass Effect franchise with different takes because of how people viewed some poor decisions for I consider The Reapers to be one of the biggest mistakes BioWare ever made. So instead of calling those characters by their names you just rename them to the original set of character names so instead of Ryder they are Shepard, Garrus gets a gender flip and is Vetra, Liara is replaced with P.B. and so on. You never know what you are going to get so being so fixated on the old content or any kind of reboot doesn't mean what I think people believe it will. The only way they are going to be accurate to the original games is just to update the hardware support and re-release them on current generation of consoles.
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Post by Sanunes on Feb 19, 2020 20:35:44 GMT
Shepard is more than 75% likely dead. Even in Destroy he's almost certainly dead. The surviving Shep has so little odds that it wouldn't be worth it. Even if alive, Shep would have to be retired. Even retired, it's possible for Shepard to go on one more mission especially if Hackett is the one to ask for his/her help for whatever the problem is. It wouldn't have to. Just don't include her in the game at all. That doesn't work, people are still begging for The Warden to be part of Dragon Age after BioWare has repeatedly said they have no plans to return to that character.
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Post by smilesja on Feb 19, 2020 20:36:23 GMT
You certainly can but should you? I don't see any compelling reason to continue with the Shepard character. Sales. That's a compelling reason. That sounds very EA of you.
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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 19, 2020 20:38:46 GMT
Shepard is more than 75% likely dead. Even in Destroy he's almost certainly dead. The surviving Shep has so little odds that it wouldn't be worth it. Even if alive, Shep would have to be retired. Even retired, it's possible for Shepard to go on one more mission especially if Hackett is the one to ask for his/her help for whatever the problem is. It wouldn't have to. Just don't include her in the game at all. It’d be nice if Shepard could tell Hackett to fuck off and find someone else to do it. What’s he gonna do, fire the savior of the galaxy? As if. Shepard could probably walk into Space Applebee’s and eat varren skewers for life for free.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2020 20:48:28 GMT
Even retired, it's possible for Shepard to go on one more mission especially if Hackett is the one to ask for his/her help for whatever the problem is. It wouldn't have to. Just don't include her in the game at all. It’d be nice if Shepard could tell Hackett to fuck off and find someone else to do it. What’s he gonna do, fire the savior of the galaxy? As if. Shepard could probably walk into Space Applebee’s and eat varren skewers for life for free. Here's an idea. After talking to Garrus about retirement, Shepard walks up to Anderson and tells him that his/her part of the mission is accomplished... the crucible is finished and the galaxy is united. Then, he/she hops onto a shuttle and flies off to investigate that little bar in Rio Jacob mentioned. Bioware decides whether or not the Alliance effs it all up again as usual and moves forward with a new hero still trying to stop the completion of the Reaper harvest.
Or better yet, the ME3 dream starts when Liara melds with Shepard. Everything that follows that is just her speculating about the possible future rather than sharing her memories. Shepard exits that room just as Harbinger lasers the FOB, killing everyone... except for Shepard who might draw a final breath in the rubble. Reapers win.
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