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Post by Iakus on Nov 14, 2019 20:03:13 GMT
And of course, sometimes they'd just stand there, no matter what was happening.... I need more coffee - I really do love DAI, just not blind to areas where it fell short of its predecessors. hey I'm not sure if it fell short of its predecessors though...I've never liked 'tactics' in DA lol. Hey, I think DAI was a decent game. But combat-wise it was a big fail for me, going from To
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Post by colfoley on Nov 14, 2019 20:05:13 GMT
I preffered Inquisitions honestly. A few tweaks is all it needs really, combat itself as a whole was fine.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Nov 14, 2019 21:00:58 GMT
Thing is, DA has so far NEVER been about designing your playstyle or whatever. In every game, the class choice that you make at the start pretty much locks you in to a particular path, with at best a few branching options. DAI wasn't a 'streamlining' so much as a dropping of pretense. In DA2 only 2 of the 6 available stats actually DO anything for your chosen class, so why even let you put points in any others? What roleplay gain is there to be had in increasing your strength stat if you were already locked out of using any strength ever, the minute you decided to play as a rogue or mage? If it was dialogue options you were concerned about, DA2 and DAI instituted different systems for accessing those anyway. In DAO, a warrior had access to all four weapon builds. Mages could use all five magic schools. You could (and I did) create a mage without any elemental attacks at all, and still contribute to a party. And this negates any of what I said how? Subsequent games may be more limited, but Origins never claimed to have a "play it your way" mindset in the first place. Warriors use weapons and mages use magic? Groundbreaking.
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Post by Sanunes on Nov 14, 2019 23:28:17 GMT
In DAO, a warrior had access to all four weapon builds. Mages could use all five magic schools. You could (and I did) create a mage without any elemental attacks at all, and still contribute to a party. And this negates any of what I said how? Subsequent games may be more limited, but Origins never claimed to have a "play it your way" mindset in the first place. Warriors use weapons and mages use magic? Groundbreaking. I know I would like BioWare to get away from the holy trinity class setups, it might make the game a little more interesting to play.
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Post by revelationeffect on Nov 15, 2019 2:41:02 GMT
And this negates any of what I said how? Subsequent games may be more limited, but Origins never claimed to have a "play it your way" mindset in the first place. Warriors use weapons and mages use magic? Groundbreaking. I know I would like BioWare to get away from the holy trinity class setups, it might make the game a little more interesting to play. I’m hoping that given that per Sandal “all the magic” is coming back, future installments will provide more opportunity for blurring the lines between strict class delineations in interesting ways.
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Post by tatann on Nov 15, 2019 11:56:09 GMT
And this negates any of what I said how? Subsequent games may be more limited, but Origins never claimed to have a "play it your way" mindset in the first place. Warriors use weapons and mages use magic? Groundbreaking. I know I would like BioWare to get away from the holy trinity class setups, it might make the game a little more interesting to play. Unless they f*** up like they did in Andromeda... Wow I can pick powers from any old class system ! Oooh I can only have 3 active powers at a time :'(
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Post by ArcadiaGrey on Nov 15, 2019 14:05:28 GMT
I'm not one for tactics, but even I facepalmed at the simplification in DAI. I remember setting Morrigan to use sleep against enemies that were far away. When we went into the Cauthrien fight she put half the mobs to sleep automatically, making it easy. I couldn't understand how people thought it was the hardest fight in the game. Until next time ofc Anywho when I tried to recreate such things in DAI, I got the impression BioWare put some piss poor tactics in there just to shut ppl up. Next time either do it well, or not at all
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Post by Little Bengel on Nov 15, 2019 15:34:31 GMT
Damn. Half the fun of playing with tactics in DA:O for me involved making up piss-poor combat behaviors for my companions. Disheartening to see, really. I'm hoping the devs at Bioware are thinking of bringing back that level of depth for the tactics, I don't wanna fry the egg without feeling like I earned that opportunity
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Post by Iakus on Nov 15, 2019 16:01:21 GMT
I know I would like BioWare to get away from the holy trinity class setups, it might make the game a little more interesting to play. Unless they f*** up like they did in Andromeda... Wow I can pick powers from any old class system ! Oooh I can only have 3 active powers at a time :'(
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Post by Iakus on Nov 15, 2019 16:03:07 GMT
In DAO, a warrior had access to all four weapon builds. Mages could use all five magic schools. You could (and I did) create a mage without any elemental attacks at all, and still contribute to a party. And this negates any of what I said how? Subsequent games may be more limited, but Origins never claimed to have a "play it your way" mindset in the first place. Warriors use weapons and mages use magic? Groundbreaking. But DAO provided more OPTIONS than DAI. Many, many more options. It was almost like it was some kind of role-playing game!
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Post by alanc9 on Nov 15, 2019 18:00:05 GMT
Sure. But I'll still take DA2 or DAI over DAO for building warriors. I find more variability within two weapon styles better than less variability within four styles. I'd rather have both: more variability with more styles. Still, even DA2 gave us more/better options than DAI. Why "even DA2"? DA2's character build system is the best in the series, by a substantial margin. As for second place, I'll rank DAI over DA:O;; better mages don't make up for worse rogues and warriors. Maybe a tie if you're playing DA:A.
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Post by Iakus on Nov 15, 2019 20:42:28 GMT
I'd rather have both: more variability with more styles. Still, even DA2 gave us more/better options than DAI. Why "even DA2"? DA2's character build system is the best in the series, by a substantial margin. As for second place, I'll rank DAI over DA:O;; better mages don't make up for worse rogues and warriors. Maybe a tie if you're playing DA:A. I didn't care for DA2's visuals. Comically oversized weapons, Roundhouse kicking flasks into enemies, the "pew-pew-pew" of staff attacks. I will grant that DAI fixed a lot of that (not staffs, though) Plus DA2 is the game that restricted weapons to particular classes. No more sword-swinging mages or dual-wielding warriors. And I played warriors more than any other class in DAO
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Post by cypherj on Nov 15, 2019 21:26:52 GMT
Why "even DA2"? DA2's character build system is the best in the series, by a substantial margin. As for second place, I'll rank DAI over DA:O;; better mages don't make up for worse rogues and warriors. Maybe a tie if you're playing DA:A. I didn't care for DA2's visuals. Comically oversized weapons, Roundhouse kicking flasks into enemies, the "pew-pew-pew" of staff attacks. I will grant that DAI fixd a lot of that (not staffs, though) Plus DA2 is the game that restricted weapons to particular classes. No more sword-swinging mages or dual-wielding rogues. And I played warriors more than any other class in DAO t I miss the dual wielding warriors from Origins, and I really miss Arcane Warrior, that class was sick. Play it as DPS, tank, or as an armor wearing mage with a staff. Best, most unique class in the series IMHO. I also agree with everyone who misses the custom companion tactics.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Nov 15, 2019 23:46:47 GMT
And this negates any of what I said how? Subsequent games may be more limited, but Origins never claimed to have a "play it your way" mindset in the first place. Warriors use weapons and mages use magic? Groundbreaking. But DAO provided more OPTIONS than DAI. Many, many more options. It was almost like it was some kind of role-playing game! Even if I accept that that is empirically true (and I don't think it necessarily is, but I also don't super care), there are lots of games that have "many options" that aren't roleplaying games, so what's your point? I'd argue having access to lots of skill trees or whatever is not actually a necessary feature of a roleplaying game. All I said was that people are criticising DAI for not having something that the series never had to begin with, namely, a focus on player freedom. Any freedom people had (or thought they had) in DAO basically happened by accident.
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Post by Iakus on Nov 16, 2019 0:45:23 GMT
But DAO provided more OPTIONS than DAI. Many, many more options. It was almost like it was some kind of role-playing game! Even if I accept that that is empirically true (and I don't think it necessarily is, but I also don't super care), there are lots of games that have "many options" that aren't roleplaying games, so what's your point? I'd argue having access to lots of skill trees or whatever is not actually a necessary feature of a roleplaying game. All I said was that people are criticising DAI for not having something that the series never had to begin with, namely, a focus on player freedom. Any freedom people had (or thought they had) in DAO basically happened by accident. Yeah that must be why they gave us six fully playable origin stories. Player freedom is entirely accidental More options=more player control=better RPG. Hell, I was stunned and pleased to see the Inquisitor was given four different VAs to choose from, when two is the norm!
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Post by pessimistpanda on Nov 16, 2019 8:55:42 GMT
Even if I accept that that is empirically true (and I don't think it necessarily is, but I also don't super care), there are lots of games that have "many options" that aren't roleplaying games, so what's your point? I'd argue having access to lots of skill trees or whatever is not actually a necessary feature of a roleplaying game. All I said was that people are criticising DAI for not having something that the series never had to begin with, namely, a focus on player freedom. Any freedom people had (or thought they had) in DAO basically happened by accident. Yeah that must be why they gave us six fully playable origin stories. Player freedom is entirely accidental More options=more player control=better RPG. Hell, I was stunned and pleased to see the Inquisitor was given four different VAs to choose from, when two is the norm! By that logic, every game has infinite player freedom because it also includes all the opportunities available to me if I choose not to buy it.
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Post by alanc9 on Nov 16, 2019 15:42:24 GMT
Technically, don't background stories restrict player freedom rather than grant it? In a game where the PC has no defined background before showing up to wherever the action begins, you can write that history freely. I've never really liked that approach myself, but it's a thing.
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Post by Iakus on Nov 16, 2019 17:03:38 GMT
Technically, don't background stories restrict player freedom rather than grant it? In a game where the PC has no defined background before showing up to wherever the action begins, you can write that history freely. I've never really liked that approach myself, but it's a thing. If you are a writer, I suppose. But having an in-game interactive background in a game means you can better define your character, and have that background impact on the world-state. Tyranny takes it to a whole new level, where your background helps define your role in a previous war, and how some people react to you . One of the towns you can visit can be largely destroyed (or not) before you even get there based on your decisions in creating your background.
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Post by Iakus on Nov 16, 2019 17:05:10 GMT
Yeah that must be why they gave us six fully playable origin stories. Player freedom is entirely accidental More options=more player control=better RPG. Hell, I was stunned and pleased to see the Inquisitor was given four different VAs to choose from, when two is the norm! By that logic, every game has infinite player freedom because it also includes all the opportunities available to me if I choose not to buy it.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Nov 16, 2019 17:08:27 GMT
By that logic, every game has infinite player freedom because it also includes all the opportunities available to me if I choose not to buy it. Uh ... I don't follow. Can you explain?
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Post by pessimistpanda on Nov 17, 2019 22:09:30 GMT
By that logic, every game has infinite player freedom because it also includes all the opportunities available to me if I choose not to buy it. Uh ... I don't follow. Can you explain? I'm saying that every video game offers the ultimate freedom, because you always have the choice not to play it. Am I being disingenuous? Maybe, but no more so than Iakus. Whether or not you think "more options" make a better RPG (is anyone here going to argue that DAO is superior to Witcher 3 because you get 6 possible PCs instead of being locked into playing Geralt?), there is no actual evidence that DAO even HAS more options than its successors. Taking away options Iakus likes, ie the option to equip any weapon regardless of class, is not the same thing as having less options overall. DA2 and DAI may well have MORE options, even without broader weapon selection. Has anyone actually gone through the games thoroughly to count and compare, say, the number of skill trees, skills within each tree, and etc? As for whether or not any game gives players "freedom", and if that's even a good thing, is an entirely subjective matter. Personally, I don't think choosing between six prefabricated character backgrounds is much different from only having one. In fact, I don't even consider it a choice, because I have no direct control over it. Rather, my origin is selected FOR ME, based on what race and class I want to play. I don't see how that offers more "choice" or "freedom" than not being given a background at all. I don't want to play a noble in DAO, but if I want to be a human rogue, I have no choice. How is that freedom? In fact, in many ways, DAO is extremely limiting, like all games are. And I don't necessarily consider that a bad thing, and neither does Iakus, when the "choice" being offered is one he doesn't want or doesn't care about. Hell, there are people in this very thread who, after claiming to support the lofty ideals of "player freedom", will go into some other thread and say BioWare shouldn't have to let players be gay in the games, and that we should just use our imaginations, and they will see no irony in that at all.
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Post by Iakus on Nov 17, 2019 22:20:15 GMT
Uh ... I don't follow. Can you explain? I'm saying that every video game offers the ultimate freedom, because you always have the choice not to play it. Am I being disingenuous? Maybe, but no more so than Iakus. Whether or not you think "more options" make a better RPG (is anyone here going to argue that DAO is superior to Witcher 3 because you get 6 possible PCs instead of being locked into playing Geralt?), there is no actual evidence that DAO even HAS more options than its successors. Haven't played Witcher 3, so can't really comment. However, given I didn't especially like Geralt in the earlier games, I'd be inclined to say yeah, DAO is a better RPG at least in part because I'm not locked into being a single character. Well in DAO, at least, we had five magic schools that worked very differently from each other. As opposed to DAI, where the mage options pretty much amounted to "kill it with lightning, kill it with fire, or kill it with cold" 6>1. Like the Flonase commercial says. Sadly, the human commoner origin didn't make it in. Seven origins would have been better than six. Rather than insinuate I ever said anything like that (since you apparently can't defeat my argument, and therefore have to try attacking me), try citing something.
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Post by cloud9 on Jan 12, 2020 3:49:49 GMT
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Post by majesticjazz on Jan 12, 2020 22:57:28 GMT
Combat in Dragon Age series sucked hard, compared to other games who excel in combat design. It's hard to take BioWare seriously these days, especially now. Which is very sad, because Mass Effect Trilogy was the only game for me that got combat gameplay right. There's always room for improvement, but Mass Effect Trilogy was BioWare's best Action/RPG game, when it comes to combat design and gameplay. What was wrong with DAO combat?
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Post by cloud9 on Jan 12, 2020 23:26:13 GMT
Combat in Dragon Age series sucked hard, compared to other games who excel in combat design. It's hard to take BioWare seriously these days, especially now. Which is very sad, because Mass Effect Trilogy was the only game for me that got combat gameplay right. There's always room for improvement, but Mass Effect Trilogy was BioWare's best Action/RPG game, when it comes to combat design and gameplay. What was wrong with DAO combat? Are you kidding? The combat is horrible. Animations are terrible, combat gameplay is slow and cumbersome, cannot dodge, block, or parry enemy attacks. Origins is the worst game when it comes to combat. And it was released in 2009, so there is no excuse for sub par combat design.
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