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Post by majesticjazz on Sept 8, 2019 23:47:34 GMT
Except we do know. MEA was such a failure that for the first time since ME1 in 2007, Bioware decided not to release any SP DLC. That is your assumption on why there wasn't single player DLC, nobody confirmed that expect for people making the same assumption online. It could have been that EA had enough of the management at Montreal and decided to close the studio long before the game was even released. Oh give me a break. Im not buying into your denial. Split hairs all you want. MEA was the laughingstock of the industry during that time and creating negative PR for Bioware. They cut sling and put all focus and resources into Anthem which they felt was a make or break for them. As a result any SP DLC was cut. Your reply brings back memories of how people here swore up and down that EA was satisfied with MEA in terms of sales/review scores and that there would indeed be SP DLC. Then when it was announced that no such DLC was coming....those same people changed their tune...backtracked and began to support the argument that EA had never planned on SP DLC for the game in the first place as they wanted to save money/resources for Anthem. Nice try and move along....
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Post by majesticjazz on Sept 8, 2019 23:53:45 GMT
Mind you as soon as Witcher 3 came out months later, people in retrospect saw DAI as an inferior game. People and critics today place TW3 up there with some of the greatest RPGs and greatest games ever made. Most people and critics do not do so with DAI. I mean go find a recent "top 100 games of all time" or "Top 10 RPGs of the decade" and you'll always see TW3 on there and never DAI. Also again, this isnt just about RPGs but the overall quality and level of production that many AAA games today are getting. Where are these "most people" you're getting from? Did you poll every gamer in the planet? Find me any poll or list from a major videogame outlet that talks about the greatest games or greatest RPGs of all time, last 10 years etc....that has DAI above TW3. Or find me any article or quote from any media source that explains how a game or dev is looking to DAI for inspiration for how aspects of DAI raised the bar for the gaming industry. You wont because they're arent any but instead you'll come up with some witty reason for why you wont do it.
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Post by majesticjazz on Sept 9, 2019 0:17:13 GMT
Did you poll every gamer in the planet? You don't want to do that, if you do that you end up finding the weirdos who defended Fallout 76 and Mass Effect Andromeda. No use, he is using the argument from ignorance fallacy.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Sept 9, 2019 1:40:34 GMT
The other thing is we really don't know how BioWare games really did, people can make assumptions on how well they did or didn't do. EA doesn't really release the numbers aside from "facts that make us look good". If how someone perceives how a game did doesn't mean that is the reality of the situation, even my guesses are just that. Except we do know. MEA was such a failure that for the first time since ME1 in 2007, Bioware decided not to release any SP DLC. Actually ME1 did have SP dlc. It had pinnacle station and that one where the batarians are trying to crash an astroid into a human planet. I think it was called bringing down the sky. So it would actually be even before ME1 that bioware didn't release SP DLC. Bioware Always releases a ton of dlc with every game. Yet all MEA got was the pre order bonus and collectors edition stuff. I mean even DA2 which got alot of complaints (though I liked it alot though I admit it has it's flaws) had at least two major dlcs and a ton of small ones that ranged from weapons and armor packs,dlc character,and black emporium.
I mean look at DAI. It had a TON of dlc. If you bought all the dlc it actually cost more then the base game did. So while I liked andromeda so I am not one of those "death to andromeda" people. I have to question the idea that they planned to not have dlc for andromeda.
And for the record I was angry when I read that they wouldn't have dlc. I wanted the quarian ark dlc.
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Post by colfoley on Sept 9, 2019 1:53:25 GMT
You don't want to do that, if you do that you end up finding the weirdos who defended Fallout 76 and Mass Effect Andromeda. No use, he is using the argument from ignorance fallacy. better that then argumentum ad populum.
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Post by Sanunes on Sept 9, 2019 1:58:03 GMT
That is your assumption on why there wasn't single player DLC, nobody confirmed that expect for people making the same assumption online. It could have been that EA had enough of the management at Montreal and decided to close the studio long before the game was even released. Oh give me a break. Im not buying into your denial. Split hairs all you want. MEA was the laughingstock of the industry during that time and creating negative PR for Bioware. They cut sling and put all focus and resources into Anthem which they felt was a make or break for them. As a result any SP DLC was cut. Your reply brings back memories of how people here swore up and down that EA was satisfied with MEA in terms of sales/review scores and that there would indeed be SP DLC. Then when it was announced that no such DLC was coming....those same people changed their tune...backtracked and began to support the argument that EA had never planned on SP DLC for the game in the first place as they wanted to save money/resources for Anthem. Nice try and move along.... What denial? I am saying we don't know the truth and anything else is pure speculation. Unless you have some press release EA has given investors the only thing EA and BioWare has made publicly the game cost $100 million Canadian to make and there was $50 million US in deferred revenue from enhanced editions. Just because the internet makes claims about it being a failure or that it made BioWare a laughing stock is all opinions with no evidence one way or the other. I am not saying the game wasn't a problem or that it did well. What I am saying is everything you are claiming is based on internet opinion with no evidence to prove either side aside from personal opinions and internet claims.
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Post by smilesja on Sept 9, 2019 2:24:48 GMT
You don't want to do that, if you do that you end up finding the weirdos who defended Fallout 76 and Mass Effect Andromeda. No use, he is using the argument from ignorance fallacy. You're the one who said "many people" Jazz back it up.
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Post by masterwarderz on Sept 9, 2019 3:19:48 GMT
This thread is the proof on why popular opinion is irrelevant at the end of the day. Unpopular opinion doesn't translate into support either though, no matter how much dancing around the subject is done it doesn't magically make the trainwrecks of the prior BioWare releases anymore profitable or popular. ._. But sure toxic fandoms and all can be the shield for the narrative as BioWare itself proves its own incompetence one stumble into the grave at a time.
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Post by masterwarderz on Sept 9, 2019 3:21:09 GMT
You don't want to do that, if you do that you end up finding the weirdos who defended Fallout 76 and Mass Effect Andromeda. Oh the horrors of someone liking something you don't like and why shouldn't someone do that? Isn't not adding them people to the mix a form of censorship? I mentioned nothing about excluding those that support trash, only that some people defend trash as a gem even as it proves itself to be trash. ._. So as usual, in your haste to defend garbage you trip, fall and make a fool of yourself.
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Post by colfoley on Sept 9, 2019 3:32:21 GMT
This thread is the proof on why popular opinion is irrelevant at the end of the day. Unpopular opinion doesn't translate into support either though, no matter how much dancing around the subject is done it doesn't magically make the trainwrecks of the prior BioWare releases anymore profitable or popular. ._. But sure toxic fandoms and all can be the shield for the narrative as BioWare itself proves its own incompetence one stumble into the grave at a time. I never said it did. Just that: A. People's opinion...or at least how the great unwashed masses of humanity view a game...doesen't really matter to me. You want to dislike a game, fine, but it does literally nothing to advance an argument to say 'most people' dislike it. There's a reason why that's considered a logical fallacy. B. Nor are people's overall opinions of a game really effect the actual quality of the product in question.
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Post by smilesja on Sept 9, 2019 4:08:38 GMT
Oh the horrors of someone liking something you don't like and why shouldn't someone do that? Isn't not adding them people to the mix a form of censorship? I mentioned nothing about excluding those that support trash, only that some people defend trash as a gem even as it proves itself to be trash. ._. So as usual, in your haste to defend garbage you trip, fall and make a fool of yourself. Thrash TO YOU. Do you understand that it's YOUR OPINION that it is thrash. Just because YOU don't like a game doesn't mean it's thrash or that people see what you say. If anyone is foolish is you who keeps insisting that your subjective opinion is truth.
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Post by Blaze on Sept 9, 2019 5:07:22 GMT
Mind you as soon as Witcher 3 came out months later, people in retrospect saw DAI as an inferior game. People and critics today place TW3 up there with some of the greatest RPGs and greatest games ever made. Most people and critics do not do so with DAI. I mean go find a recent "top 100 games of all time" or "Top 10 RPGs of the decade" and you'll always see TW3 on there and never DAI. Also again, this isnt just about RPGs but the overall quality and level of production that many AAA games today are getting. Where are these "most people" you're getting from? Did you poll every gamer in the planet? how to dare you to use logic to counter his ultimate truth? i mean just because his "truth" doesn't based on facts, that doesn't mean you can just question it like that... Did you poll every gamer in the planet? You don't want to do that, if you do that you end up finding the weirdos who defended Fallout 76 and Mass Effect Andromeda. oh yes, i'm so weird for liking a fun game with a good story. so silly of me. You don't want to do that, if you do that you end up finding the weirdos who defended Fallout 76 and Mass Effect Andromeda. No use, he is using the argument from ignorance fallacy. oh come on, you are not even trying anymore xD I mentioned nothing about excluding those that support trash, only that some people defend trash as a gem even as it proves itself to be trash. ._. So as usual, in your haste to defend garbage you trip, fall and make a fool of yourself. Thrash TO YOU. Do you understand that it's YOUR OPINION that it is thrash. Just because YOU don't like a game doesn't mean it's thrash or that people see what you say. If anyone is foolish is you who keeps insisting that your subjective opinion is truth. again, how DARE you, with your logic?! the ultimate truth, has spoken! your only choice is to embrace it! let us raise our hands to the sky and be one with the truth! \o/
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Post by Blaze on Sept 9, 2019 5:17:20 GMT
Unpopular opinion doesn't translate into support either though, no matter how much dancing around the subject is done it doesn't magically make the trainwrecks of the prior BioWare releases anymore profitable or popular. ._. But sure toxic fandoms and all can be the shield for the narrative as BioWare itself proves its own incompetence one stumble into the grave at a time. I never said it did. Just that: A. People's opinion...or at least how the great unwashed masses of humanity view a game...doesen't really matter to me. You want to dislike a game, fine, but it does literally nothing to advance an argument to say 'most people' dislike it. There's a reason why that's considered a logical fallacy. B. Nor are people's overall opinions of a game really effect the actual quality of the product in question. you know, years back i had a discussion with someone, i told them that while i enjoyed skyrim, i found dragon age 2 to be better. he actually told me "you are the only one who thinks that,so obviously you are wrong" (not exactly with this wording, but something along the lines); i mean, dude, even if that was true (which is unlikely), how that makes it any less wrong? how does other people thinking differently changes the fact that i enjoy dragon are 2 more then i did skyrim? xD
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Post by colfoley on Sept 9, 2019 5:19:12 GMT
I never said it did. Just that: A. People's opinion...or at least how the great unwashed masses of humanity view a game...doesen't really matter to me. You want to dislike a game, fine, but it does literally nothing to advance an argument to say 'most people' dislike it. There's a reason why that's considered a logical fallacy. B. Nor are people's overall opinions of a game really effect the actual quality of the product in question. you know, years back i had a discussion with someone, i told them that while i enjoyed skyrim, i found dragon age 2 to be better. he actually told me "you are the only one who thinks that,so obviously you are wrong" (not exactly with this wording, but something along the lines); i mean, dude, even if that was true (which is unlikely), how that makes it any less wrong? how does other people thinking differently changes the fact that i enjoy dragon are 2 more then i did skyrim? xD Meh I pretty much think every single RPG I've ever played is better then Skyrim so what do I know?
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Post by Andraste_Reborn on Sept 9, 2019 5:40:53 GMT
I am actually playing Skyrim for the first time at the moment (yeah, sometimes I am the living embodiment of slowpoke.jpg) and while I'm enjoying it a lot more than Morrowind or Oblivion - as witnessed by the fact that I'm thirty hours in and have not quit out of boredom - I am not having nearly as much fun with it as I did with DA2. So there are at least three people on this planet who think that DA2>Skyrim!
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Post by Kabraxal on Sept 9, 2019 6:42:15 GMT
Well, considering the last DA has not been equaled by any other dev, I see no reason why DA4 can’t be better than any of the upcoming releases in the next two years. Not like it’s going up against the greatest of the great. DA has not been equaled by any other dev? I guess you haven't heard of games like Witcher 3, Horizon, BoTW, Persona 5 and those or just games that already came out. By the time DA4 comes out Cyberpunk 2077 would have came out, The Outer Worlds and possibly it's next gen sequal. And I'm not just talking about quality in RPG games, I mean overall game quality. So look at Last of Us 2, Death Stranding, Ghost of Tsushima, RDR2 and so on. Can DA4 have quality on par with those games? Not just RPGs. TW3, Persona 5, and BotW were garbage.... and I say that as a Zrlda and SMT/Persona fan. Horizon was good but not GOAT tier. As for the potential games... well the only one I care about is the Outer Worlds. Don’ give a shit about the rest. So yeah... DA:I is still the greatest game ever made and no game looks to take that mantle before DA4.
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Post by colfoley on Sept 9, 2019 6:44:51 GMT
DA has not been equaled by any other dev? I guess you haven't heard of games like Witcher 3, Horizon, BoTW, Persona 5 and those or just games that already came out. By the time DA4 comes out Cyberpunk 2077 would have came out, The Outer Worlds and possibly it's next gen sequal. And I'm not just talking about quality in RPG games, I mean overall game quality. So look at Last of Us 2, Death Stranding, Ghost of Tsushima, RDR2 and so on. Can DA4 have quality on par with those games? Not just RPGs. TW3, Persona 5, and BotW were garbage.... and I say that as a Zrlda and SMT/Persona fan. Horizon was good but not GOAT tier. As for the potential games... well the only one I care about is the Outer Worlds. Don’ give a shit about the rest. So yeah... DA:I is still the greatest game ever made and no game looks to take that mantle before DA4. Its going to take a lot for DA 4 to top DAI. That game means an awful lot to me and it just has so much personality. But I look forward for BioWare to make the attempt, and hope they can give us an even better game, maybe even, my perfect game.
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Post by Kabraxal on Sept 9, 2019 6:53:57 GMT
TW3, Persona 5, and BotW were garbage.... and I say that as a Zrlda and SMT/Persona fan. Horizon was good but not GOAT tier. As for the potential games... well the only one I care about is the Outer Worlds. Don’ give a shit about the rest. So yeah... DA:I is still the greatest game ever made and no game looks to take that mantle before DA4. Its going to take a lot for DA 4 to top DAI. That game means an awful lot to me and it just has so much personality. But I look forward for BioWare to make the attempt, and hope they can give us an even better game, maybe even, my perfect game. If they give us better than DA:I... well, it just eternally cements Bioware as the god of all developers. Hell, even just half as amazing will do. That’s how great DA:I was.
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Post by Gileadan on Sept 9, 2019 7:00:34 GMT
DAI can easily be improved on in some aspects.
Side quests. Get rid of all the busywork that consists of clicking on a random world item for a text pop up that tells you to run somewhere else for another text pop, and whoa, you completed a quest. Zoom in the camera for quest dialogue. Expand the dialogue beyond the standard "hello random stranger, let me tell you about my problem even if I've never seen you before".
Fix the combat. The hitboxes are a mess which affects melee really badly (ranged combat is easy due to the homing projectiles).
Don't have things like the banter bug. It kills one of the game's biggest strengths.
I think they have their work cut out for them.
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Post by masterwarderz on Sept 9, 2019 12:57:16 GMT
Unpopular opinion doesn't translate into support either though, no matter how much dancing around the subject is done it doesn't magically make the trainwrecks of the prior BioWare releases anymore profitable or popular. ._. But sure toxic fandoms and all can be the shield for the narrative as BioWare itself proves its own incompetence one stumble into the grave at a time. I never said it did. Then just pointless off topic commentary? Fair enough.
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Post by masterwarderz on Sept 9, 2019 12:59:34 GMT
Its going to take a lot for DA 4 to top DAI. That game means an awful lot to me and it just has so much personality. But I look forward for BioWare to make the attempt, and hope they can give us an even better game, maybe even, my perfect game. If they give us better than DA:I... well, it just eternally cements Bioware as the god of all developers. Hell, even just half as amazing will do. That’s how great DA:I was. I agree, them turning that trainwreck around would have been nothing short of a miracle, because from just the bugs, engines issues and just general performance to that rancid joke of a story, they'd have to fix a fucking heap. ._. But swinging that around would be pretty impressive.
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Post by masterwarderz on Sept 9, 2019 13:01:00 GMT
DA has not been equaled by any other dev? I guess you haven't heard of games like Witcher 3, Horizon, BoTW, Persona 5 and those or just games that already came out. By the time DA4 comes out Cyberpunk 2077 would have came out, The Outer Worlds and possibly it's next gen sequal. And I'm not just talking about quality in RPG games, I mean overall game quality. So look at Last of Us 2, Death Stranding, Ghost of Tsushima, RDR2 and so on. Can DA4 have quality on par with those games? Not just RPGs. So yeah... DA:I is still the greatest game ever made That's certainly an opinion, an opinion I view on par with: And Fallout 76 was the greatest game ever made but sure, you do you.
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Post by masterwarderz on Sept 9, 2019 13:03:57 GMT
I mentioned nothing about excluding those that support trash, only that some people defend trash as a gem even as it proves itself to be trash. ._. So as usual, in your haste to defend garbage you trip, fall and make a fool of yourself. Thrash TO YOU. Do you understand that it's YOUR OPINION that it is thrash. Just because YOU don't like a game doesn't mean it's thrash or that people see what you say. If anyone is foolish is you who keeps insisting that your subjective opinion is truth. ...We are talking about Andromeda and Fallout 76 but okay, it isn't like that opinion doesn't have any non "subjective" basis here or whatever. But sure, assert the validity of opinions when if we go by the metric of non subject criteria, then well...Those things were unplayable trash fires at launch, we gonna go by that metric then? ._. I picked those two examples for a reason.
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Post by masterwarderz on Sept 9, 2019 13:07:45 GMT
You don't want to do that, if you do that you end up finding the weirdos who defended Fallout 76 and Mass Effect Andromeda. oh yes, i'm so weird for liking a fun game with a good story. so silly of me. .___. 76 literally has no story friend. It has literary devices shattered around the place you might try to argue is a quest of some variety but I'd disagree with that assertion that translates into a story, little lone a good one. If you mean Andromeda? Then pssssssh, sure if you want to call "that" a good story, that's your business.
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Post by Blaze on Sept 9, 2019 13:19:00 GMT
oh yes, i'm so weird for liking a fun game with a good story. so silly of me. .___. 76 literally has no story friend. It has literary devices shattered around the place you might try to argue is a quest of some variety but I'd disagree with that assertion that translates into a story, little lone a good one. If you mean Andromeda? Then pssssssh, sure if you want to call "that" a good story, that's your business. i haven't played fallout 76. as of andromeda, yeah darling, i call "that" a good story. and it is indeed my business (how the saying goes? "and in other news, the water is wet"). shame you never gave the game a chance, you might have enjoyed it
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