githcheater
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Post by githcheater on Feb 22, 2020 3:20:11 GMT
Hmm... so what's your working hypothesis as to how TW3 got the reputation it has? Simplistic story, lots of blood, lots of nudity, and it hit during the peak of the dark fantasy fad that had been gripping television. Your comments about nudity are just a side show.
How did TW3 get the reputation it has for excellent side quests? Can you answer this question instead of going off on a tangent?
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Post by githcheater on Feb 22, 2020 3:27:42 GMT
Well... maybe if it's the only game you've played. Sadly, I had played games and RPGs out the wazoo and found TW3 to be middling at best. Kabraxal has spoken!!! His opinion is the only opinions that matters, and everyone that played tW3 has never played another game.
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Post by githcheater on Feb 22, 2020 4:42:24 GMT
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Post by smilesja on Feb 22, 2020 5:11:30 GMT
Well... maybe if it's the only game you've played. Sadly, I had played games and RPGs out the wazoo and found TW3 to be middling at best. Kabraxal has spoken!!! His opinion is the only opinions that matters, and everyone that played tW3 has never played another game. That's not what he said at all and I think you know that.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Feb 22, 2020 5:16:27 GMT
General notice to both “sides” of the discussion;
If you can’t make a post without demeaning or belittling someone who holds a different view...then don’t post.
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Post by githcheater on Feb 22, 2020 7:01:51 GMT
Back to the subject of good side quests, the following link describes 15 tW3 side quests that "gets out of the Hinterlands" and goes beyond fetch quests like herding lifestock (a ram named Woolsley and a prize druffalo) or delivering flowers (for a widower as well as a lover). www.thegamer.com/witcher-3-best-side-quests/The following article also mentions the weakness of DAI fetch quests (as quoted below) www.escapistmagazine.com/v2/biowares-next-dragon-age-cant-just-be-good-it-needs-to-be-exceptional/ "Though Inquisition was a great game in its own right – and one that I greatly enjoyed – it still floundered in a few areas. This was most notably seen in its heavy reliance on fetch quests.
Its open world zones, while pleasantly diverse in environmental design and points of interest, all played relatively similar to each other: scour the landscape and establish camps, close Fade rifts, find hidden shards, take care of a troublesome beast or group of bandits, repeat. These MMO style quests, with little to no narrative weight attached, felt a little shallow, especially compared to the variety and depth of quests in something like The Witcher III – which released just six months later."
AND
"One of the most important facets of any good RPG is the quality of its quests. An RPG lacking in engaging quest design is doomed from the very beginning. Dragon Age: Origins had players assist in dilemmas like a disease that turns elves into werewolves, or with bringing the detestable Loghain to justice. Dragon Age: Inquisition‘s critical path was a string of appealing quests from storming a Grey Warden fortress to navigating a political conspiracy in Halamshiral. The next game needs to meet or exceed that level of variety and if the signs pointing to a showdown in the Tevinter Imperium are anything to go by, the setting should be ripe for it.
This goes for the side quests as well, which are a significant area in need of BioWare’s attention. Optional quests in The Witcher III cover a whole spectrum of characters, stories, enemies, and end goals. While some were a bit more superficial than others, narrative beats and interactive conversations were attached to every single one, rewarding players by tackling satisfying subject matter. Some were as large and as involved as mainline quests – a testament to their depth. A hard truth therefore needs to be told: collecting ten pieces of rams’ wool or marking six weapon caches in a region, with little to no tangible benefit, just won’t cut it anymore – especially in a post-Witcher world."
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 22, 2020 8:08:15 GMT
So that article just ignores that DAI had those bigger quests in the form of things like the personal quests of our companions. Also ignores the fetch quests in TW3. Overall It makes it sound like it was only the main quests and fetch quests while TW3 has every quest be super detailed. Yep, not biased at all. :rolleyes:
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Post by river82 on Feb 22, 2020 8:18:17 GMT
Optional quests in The Witcher III cover a whole spectrum of characters, stories, enemies, and end goals. While some were a bit more superficial than others, narrative beats and interactive conversations were attached to every single one, rewarding players by tackling satisfying subject matter. Some were as large and as involved as mainline quests – a testament to their depth. A hard truth therefore needs to be told: collecting ten pieces of rams’ wool or marking six weapon caches in a region, with little to no tangible benefit, just won’t cut it anymore – especially in a post-Witcher world." There's that term I'm starting to hate. Thank you gaming journos.
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Post by Serza on Feb 22, 2020 8:23:05 GMT
Alright. To move the genre's sidequesting forward, there had to be something new. What is the difference between KOTOR+TSL and W3 sidequests, pray tell. W3? You mean The Witcher 3? Or Wasteland 3? Anyway, for TW3 the answer, that will enrage some, is nothing. TW3 did nothing new and did not push sidequesting forward in any way. It's the same thing you'll see in Skyrim or Inquisition, but just zoomed the camera up during conversations. Hell, most of the missions are just cut and paste "talk, go, use senses, follow, kill, complete".
Whoops. Yeah. Witcher.
And I agree. There is nothing new in sidequests. When you look at KOTOR and The Sith Lords, well over a decade earlier, the side quests are often more complex, well thought out, offer a greater variety of choice... and in many cases require the use of your grey matter - unlike the Witcher.
In the end, the sidequests in the Witcher are much less memorable than, say, investigating a murder on Dantooine or trying to see through political intrigue on Manaan... or even saving a man from his own wife on Tatooine. Heck, getting the Exchange off people's back on Nar Shaddaa has like four different ways to complete that I can think of.
Simplistic story, lots of blood, lots of nudity, and it hit during the peak of the dark fantasy fad that had been gripping television. Your comments about nudity are just a side show.
How did TW3 get the reputation it has for excellent side quests? Can you answer this question instead of going off on a tangent?
Hmm. Lowest common denominators... A story that is not far too complex to understand, that doesn't require much thought will be loved universally. A complex story with shades of grey everywhere you could possibly look that requires a lot of thought to fully grasp? Not quite so much - many won't want to give that thought to it. As an example, many won't listen to a 2-hour video on Kreia's motivations and the analysis of how she achieved what she wanted. To give it enough thought to make such a video? Even fewer.
Blood... A lot of people have a wish to be superior to others, not only martially. Blood and gore to many makes defeating foes much more... rewarding?
As for nudity. The most sold book genre in 2016 was romance and erotica, by about twice as much as the second most sold genre, crime and mystery. Next topic.
And it did hit when GoT was popular... Very, very much so.
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Post by natetrace on Feb 22, 2020 9:41:20 GMT
I'm about to start the Witcher games. Wife and I enjoyed the series and I've been meaning to for a while. Anyway, 2014 had Inquisition and Wolfenstein New Order. Those two alone make it a great year in my book. While Inquisition may have it's issues, I can't help but think the change in tune on it in recent years is some folks just want to echo certain peers or reviewers.
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Post by Gileadan on Feb 22, 2020 10:00:56 GMT
The opinion of game journalists is not innately worth more than the opinion of gamers. The main difference is that only one of them gets paid for it.
In the end, no game is perfect and without flaws, and different people find different flaws tolerable... or not. A game that has enough going for it to be enjoyed despite any flaws it may have can't really be a bad game anyway.
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Post by Sartoz on Feb 22, 2020 13:20:54 GMT
Snip ...
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Me too! I also use Firefox and clear any trackers with CC. Amazing the number of cookie trackers that are created when you visit websites.
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 22, 2020 13:21:59 GMT
The opinion of game journalists is not innately worth more than the opinion of gamers. The main difference is that only one of them gets paid for it. In the end, no game is perfect and without flaws, and different people find different flaws tolerable... or not. A game that has enough going for it to be enjoyed despite any flaws it may have can't really be a bad game anyway. We also have to keep in mind that the story (or at least the main overarching plot) in DA isn't over and both DAI and past games will be re-contextualized and over-analyzed, reminisced upon and replayed for years to come as new games come. The Witcher saga, however, has ended - CDPR will likely return to this universe, but it's pretty clear that this arc is done and in many ways they'd need to start over. So let them have their 'decade' thing for a trilogy that is finished and went out with a bang.
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Post by smilesja on Feb 22, 2020 15:23:41 GMT
Optional quests in The Witcher III cover a whole spectrum of characters, stories, enemies, and end goals. While some were a bit more superficial than others, narrative beats and interactive conversations were attached to every single one, rewarding players by tackling satisfying subject matter. Some were as large and as involved as mainline quests – a testament to their depth. A hard truth therefore needs to be told: collecting ten pieces of rams’ wool or marking six weapon caches in a region, with little to no tangible benefit, just won’t cut it anymore – especially in a post-Witcher world." There's that term I'm starting to hate. Thank you gaming journos. They try way too hard despite not being as informed as the average consumer.
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Post by apollexander on Feb 22, 2020 15:55:59 GMT
Isn't this thread supposed to be in the DAI sub-forum?
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Post by cloud9 on Feb 23, 2020 4:31:15 GMT
So that article just ignores that DAI had those bigger quests in the form of things like the personal quests of our companions. Also ignores the fetch quests in TW3. Overall It makes it sound like it was only the main quests and fetch quests while TW3 has every quest be super detailed. Yep, not biased at all. :rolleyes: Here's the thing: The side quests in Witcher 3 are just as important to the main story, because it affects the ending and the world itself. Take the side quest for plotting an assassination attempt on the king of Redania for example, and whether you choose to save Roche, Thaler, and Ves from Reuven or leave them to their fate. That is one of the most well crafted side quests that can leave a bigger impact to the endings. Inquisition on the other hand does not have any of those things, and most of them are just busy work and add no value to the main story itself.
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Post by cloud9 on Feb 23, 2020 4:36:22 GMT
Hmm... so what's your working hypothesis as to how TW3 got the reputation it has? Simplistic story, lots of blood, lots of nudity, and it hit during the peak of the dark fantasy fad that had been gripping television. Sometimes, mediocre things release at the right time and it just happened TW3 released at a good time for its rather boorish style. If not for Game of Thrones, I don't know if this game would have reached the financial success it did. Also, props to CDPR for working the PR machine to perfection and actually making people believe they "cared" with the "free" dlc stunt. It was sneaky yet obvious to me, but a lot of people bought it hook, line and sinker. That's why The Witcher 3 is the SHIT!!!!
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Post by melbella on Feb 23, 2020 5:23:12 GMT
The side quests in Witcher 3 are just as important to the main story, And some of them are just as tedious as watching grass grow. For instance, BOTH master smith quests. It's bad enough high level crafted items are level-locked, but I also have to run all over creation just to GET someone who's able to craft them. And don't get me started on the waste of time the main quest to find Dandelion is. Better to have the Radovid plot be a main quest and put that one in the trash bin.
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Post by smilesja on Feb 23, 2020 5:38:33 GMT
The side quests in Witcher 3 are just as important to the main story, And some of them are just as tedious as watching grass grow. For instance, BOTH master smith quests. It's bad enough high level crafted items are level-locked, but I also have to run all over creation just to GET someone who's able to craft them. And don't get me started on the waste of time the main quest to find Dandelion is. Better to have the Radovid plot be a main quest and put that one in the trash bin. I would say New Vegas' sidequests are more tied in to their main story than TW3 for good and for ill.
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Post by cloud9 on Feb 23, 2020 21:18:24 GMT
The side quests in Witcher 3 are just as important to the main story, And some of them are just as tedious as watching grass grow. For instance, BOTH master smith quests. It's bad enough high level crafted items are level-locked, but I also have to run all over creation just to GET someone who's able to craft them. And don't get me started on the waste of time the main quest to find Dandelion is. Better to have the Radovid plot be a main quest and put that one in the trash bin. I can say the same about Inquisition side quests are tedious, repetitive, and boring. The side quests in Hinterlands to find food and blankets, hunting, finding Woolsley, helping your companions did not affect the main story whatsoever. (except Iron Bull on Trespasser, if you want to count that) And it was a complete waste of time.
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Post by Buckeldemon on Feb 23, 2020 21:42:35 GMT
Well, at least hunting down that ram rage demon made me go full lol for at least five minutes. Lord Woolsley is awesome. Of course I had to say that.
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Post by melbella on Feb 23, 2020 21:47:06 GMT
finding Princess Which you HAVE to do in order to talk to the Pellar, which you HAVE to do in order to progress with the baron's quest, which you HAVE to do in order to find out anything about Ciri. Better a tedious task be an avoidable side quest than one required to move the main story along (see previous post about Dandelion).
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 23, 2020 22:18:37 GMT
Well, at least hunting down that ram rage demon made me go full lol for at least five minutes. Lord Woolsley is awesome. Of course I had to say that. He's a very special ram.
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Post by yogsothoth on Feb 23, 2020 22:19:07 GMT
Every main quest in Inquisition requires grinding for Power points.
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Post by slimgrin727 on Feb 23, 2020 22:41:59 GMT
I never got tired of the quests in TW3. To me the narrative variety is the best I've seen for such a big game. And there's always multiple outcomes so the reactivity is there too. If they have a weakness, it was the over reliance on the Witcher vision and the devs themselves admitted this.
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