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Post by pdusen on Aug 5, 2016 11:17:10 GMT
I didn't realize there were any devs left at browser who *weren't* controversial.
Seriously though, I couldn't care less. Every organization of sufficient size has a few crazies.
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Post by Heimdall on Aug 5, 2016 11:23:42 GMT
Nobody is arguing that they are equivalent, so I'm not sure what you're going on about. I'm pointing out what most social justice people are trying to get at when they talke about prejudice+power. Didn't expect the hostility from you. But, okay, noted. Then they really need to find a way to say it that doesn't give people that bear hateful sentiments toward white people a blank check. If I seem hostile, it's because I have had several bad experiences with people like that, and they defended their actions with "racism is prejudice plus power". And when I tried to report their unacceptable behavior, the response I got from the social justice types in the administration was "racism is prejudice plus power". They got a slap on the wrist. This concerns me because a society without prejudice must be built upon mutual respect. Respect cannot be built upon double standards.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2016 12:20:57 GMT
I'm pointing out what most social justice people are trying to get at when they talke about prejudice+power. Didn't expect the hostility from you. But, okay, noted. Then they really need to find a way to say it that doesn't give people that bear hateful sentiments toward white people a blank check. If I seem hostile, it's because I have had several bad experiences with people like that, and they defended their actions with "racism is prejudice plus power". And when I tried to report their unacceptable behavior, the response I got from the social justice types in the administration was "racism is prejudice plus power". They got a slap on the wrist. This concerns me because a society without prejudice must be built upon mutual respect. Respect cannot be built upon double standards. Okay, I see you are coming from a place of frustration. No hard feelings.
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Post by Warrick on Aug 5, 2016 12:27:38 GMT
Let the dude say whatever, as long as the game is fun he can have his opinions. I agree the white tears thing is an asshole thing to do/say.
At any rate please tell me you're not going to go posting kotakuinaction links all over the place.
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Post by BadgerladDK on Aug 5, 2016 13:32:41 GMT
The few tweets of his I've seen does make him seem like the kind of guy I wouldn't want to share a round of beer with.
I don't particularly care as long as his opinions aren't reflected in the game, and since he's not a writer, that's that.
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Post by drrotinaj on Aug 5, 2016 18:56:43 GMT
This is not about silencing an idiot, I couldn't care less about whatshisface and his racist agenda, the internetz are full of much worse. This is about Bioware and their double standards. You have a problem with someone or a group of someones? Great. Don't be a racist and go after everyone with the same skin color. This is not only racist and idiotic, it is also inaccurate, as many "whites" never had anything to do with whatshisface perceived oppression, and in some cases even those of supposedly "white" ethnicity suffered oppression themselves. That's something very basic that should be obvious to someone allegedly concerned about "social justice". But of course, it is a rare person that actually cares about the ideals he is preaching and not about the part that improves his or his group own selfish ends. Ehh I'm no fan of Manveer but I can't say that he has double standards that contradict his/Bioware's beliefs. His comments all stem from the fact that minorities face systemic double standards. While r/KiA would say a "White Tears" mug is just as racist as a "Minority Tears" mug Manveer would say it isn't because the joke would be making fun of two completely different sets of experiences. The "White Tears" joke (at least where I've seen it) is invoked to make fun of white people who complain to suffer from an imagined social injustice, especially to a person who suffers from real prejudice. Making the joke is not a double standard because the crux of the joke is acknowledging a double standard. Is the joke funny? Is it appropriate? Up to you. Is it hypocritical? Nope not really. The real hypocrisy is the gamergaters crying racism and boycott like the SJWs.
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linksocarina
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Post by linksocarina on Aug 5, 2016 19:15:14 GMT
Greetings folks. I present you Manveer Heir. He is a racist who works in Bioware and is a developer for the upcoming Mass Effect Andromeda game. Here are archived copies of some of his tweets:- www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/4w205y/twitter_bullshit_manveer_heirs_comments_about/Here is he going crazy / getting pointlessly triggered about Deus Ex Mankind Divided (and not in a good way):- www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/4w05oi/socjus_manveer_heir_quoted_in_polygon_as_saying/I don't know about you people but Bioware is behaving in an extremely hypocritical manner. They whip up a storm about representation and diversity yet they hire someone who is openly racist to develop one of their games. Fyi, I am not white. I am an Asian Indian living in Southeast Asia. I simply think that racism towards anyone should not be tolerated, particularly by a company that claims to champion representation and diversity. I probably will hold off from buying Mass Effect Andromeda because the last thing I want is to support a racist. The least Bioware could do is issue a statement or just outright fire him. Have a nice day and cheers. Three things. First, he has no real authority in BioWare since he is a gameplay designer, meaning he is basically designing functions and levels, not writing anything. Second, I investigated him back in January because I was going to do a piece on him and some others for the website I write up. Heir has been on the forefront for fighting against racism and stereotypes for a while, including GDC talks, written articles, and the like, discussing how many developers tend to focus on cultural biases when creating characters, often inadvertently, instead of being actual racists like most would charge. To add to that, Heir also tends to follow a cultural construct theory and sociological discussion. His whole bit about "white tears" was baiting to sarcasm (which I don't like) but what is troubling is how he uses social theory to try and classify degrees of racist behavior. That is a common thing taught nowadays but from a purely academic standpoint it is a point of discussion, not a high ground of fact. I think Heir, in this case is basically arguing aspects of social theory as a "correct" method, which we all do in some form, but he may be misjudging the response because of the platform and how it's said. His talks at GDC are a bit more clear, I would look them up for research purposes if you get the chance. Now, does this make him a racist? Not really no. Racism implies hatred and prejudice against an ethnic group, Heir is arguing that racism against some ethnic groups is more prevalent than others. I disagree with that notion, but it's what hes basically going by. Again, it is only theory and his view on things, but that doesn't mean he can control how BioWare operates regardless. Third, kind of has a point with the Deus Ex bit that happened, it was a bit tone deaf and that is more to his point in the end. Eidos clearly did it on purpose (or marketing did because it would spur a reaction) and the relevancy to current events is used to tap into that, which comes off as cheap even if it was not meant to be so. So yeah...not sure why are you are worried. He is no more racist than you and I are.
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Post by ruggly on Aug 6, 2016 13:54:24 GMT
Looks like he is a gameplay guy, so unless the game forces you to hit yourself when you try to punch a reporter or whatever I don't care all that much. That being said, not the sort of guy I'd want to talk with.
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FireAndBlood
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Post by FireAndBlood on Aug 6, 2016 14:33:05 GMT
Ehh I'm no fan of Manveer but I can't say that he has double standards that contradict his/Bioware's beliefs. His comments all stem from the fact that minorities face systemic double standards. While r/KiA would say a "White Tears" mug is just as racist as a "Minority Tears" mug Manveer would say it isn't because the joke would be making fun of two completely different sets of experiences. The "White Tears" joke (at least where I've seen it) is invoked to make fun of white people who complain to suffer from an imagined social injustice, especially to a person who suffers from real prejudice. Making the joke is not a double standard because the crux of the joke is acknowledging a double standard. Is the joke funny? Is it appropriate? Up to you. Is it hypocritical? Nope not really. The real hypocrisy is the gamergaters crying racism and boycott like the SJWs. God I wish I can like your post more than once. Also OP the moment you start linking to r/KIA you automatically lose the argument.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2016 12:36:34 GMT
Manveer is the hero Bioware needs
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Aug 7, 2016 12:54:32 GMT
Greetings folks!
I present to you a guy who watched the video "Why I'm Not Buying Mass Effect Andromeda" on YouTube, and a regular GamerGater unless he hasn't discovered what KotakuInAction is yet.
I watched the video too and all I got from it was that some guy was looking for something to be salty about and he chose Manveer because he was prominent and may come across as a bit of a bigot. So what? I bet you're the kind of person who also boycotted Fez for being made by Phil Fish as if it makes any sense to reject a good product because its author is unlikeable.
Let's move on before this becomes a cesspool for all controversy-seeking gamergaters and people in general. And for the record I'm not a part of any GamerGate crap or Non-GamerGate. That shit is some of the most pretentious and stupidest crap I have seen in my entire life.
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Post by UutIVvdPw7END0Ef on Aug 7, 2016 12:55:17 GMT
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Post by Arijon van Goyen on Aug 7, 2016 14:56:32 GMT
OMG! HOW CAN THIS BE TRUE? BIOWARE, OF ALL DEVELOPERS HAS THESE BIGOTS?!
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Post by crusty on Aug 7, 2016 14:58:14 GMT
Manveer Heir is a virtue signalling hypocrite. Par for the course for most SJWs on social media. That said, I love me some Curry Thunder. Btw, did these tweets get mentioned yet?
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linksocarina
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Post by linksocarina on Aug 7, 2016 15:04:04 GMT
Manveer Heir is a virtue signalling hypocrite. Par for the course for most SJWs on social media. That said, I love me some Curry Thunder. Btw, did these tweets get mentioned yet? He just said it though, and hes indian. plus honestly, he just comes across as kind of silly in that tweet anyway. Maybe it's a twitter thing, it just makes you seem like a bigger asshole than you really are.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2016 15:18:53 GMT
Honestly I'm curious if someone made that exact comment but replaced whites with blacks how would he respond?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2016 16:13:22 GMT
Honestly I'm curious if someone made that exact comment but replaced whites with blacks how would he respond? but there is no class required when murdering black people
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2016 19:14:46 GMT
I don't care about him. The bioware devs could have just got back from stabbing puppys and orphans for all I care. As long as it's a good game i'm happy.
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Post by General Mahad on Aug 7, 2016 20:02:03 GMT
Here's him getting really butthurt at Deus Ex: Mankind Divided Concept Art: I don't think he's trolling, I think he's that big of a hypocritical idiot/bigot. But ultimately doesn't matter too much as I'll be sure to buy Andromeda used.
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Post by Monk on Aug 7, 2016 20:56:58 GMT
Here's him getting really butthurt at Deus Ex: Mankind Divided Concept Art: I don't think he's trolling, I think he's that big of a hypocritical idiot/bigot. But ultimately doesn't matter too much as I'll be sure to buy Andromeda used. Yeahhh. He's got a point here but he definitely has some issues which still need to be worked out, besides being unfiltered which might be permanent. The best thing to do is just move along and not take issue with it. His problems won't get solved overnight.
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Post by FireAndBlood on Aug 7, 2016 21:09:10 GMT
Here's him getting really butthurt at Deus Ex: Mankind Divided Concept Art: I don't think he's trolling, I think he's that big of a hypocritical idiot/bigot. But ultimately doesn't matter too much as I'll be sure to buy Andromeda used. Except that he has a valid point.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 7, 2016 21:12:34 GMT
Except that he has a valid point. No he doesn't. That concept art was made before the BLM movement ever happened. Plus BLM don't own the rights to any Lives Matter slogan, especially since they aren't even the first to use such.
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FireAndBlood
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Post by FireAndBlood on Aug 7, 2016 21:34:24 GMT
No he doesn't. That concept art was made before the BLM movement ever happened. Plus BLM don't own the rights to any Lives Matter slogan, especially since they aren't even the first to use such. The Lives Matter slogan belongs to ethnic minorities who have grievances over injustices committed against them by the authorities, it doesn't belong to one group of people and it sure as shit does not belong to fictional characters! Augs are not people. They do not exist. They are not real.
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Post by linksocarina on Aug 7, 2016 21:39:42 GMT
He just said it though, and hes indian. plus honestly, he just comes across as kind of silly in that tweet anyway. Maybe it's a twitter thing, it just makes you seem like a bigger asshole than you really are. Why are you so quick to defend " hate speech" all of a sudden? Hate speech (wiki): "Hate speech, outside the law, is speech that attacks a person or group on the basis of attributes such as gender, ethnic origin, religion, race, disability, or sexual orientation." What the hell are you talking about? I am not really defending anything. Just giving my take on the matter.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 7, 2016 21:45:45 GMT
No he doesn't. That concept art was made before the BLM movement ever happened. Plus BLM don't own the rights to any Lives Matter slogan, especially since they aren't even the first to use such. The Lives Matter slogan belongs to ethnic minorities who have grievances over injustices committed against them by the authorities, it doesn't belong to one group of people and it sure as shit does not belong to fictional characters! Augs are not people. They do not exist. They are not real. No, those words do not belong to anybody since they belong to everybody. Show me the trademark that shows only the people you mentioned can use the slogan for anything. You can't because that is censorship. Also, so fiction cannot have any parallels to real life then? Is that what you are saying? Or in this case, if something in fiction is made and later real life uses something similar the work of fiction has to be changed?
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