FireAndBlood
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Post by FireAndBlood on Aug 7, 2016 22:01:32 GMT
No. Lives matter belong to the human species. The problem is not saying that lives matter, the problem is the implied exclusion of "other" lives from different groups, specifically that other lives matter less or not at all. If you think any movement that uses the Lives Matter as a slogan implies that other races lives don't matter, then the problem is with you not the movement.
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FireAndBlood
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by FireAndBlood on Aug 7, 2016 22:04:39 GMT
No, those words do not belong to anybody since they belong to everybody. Show me the trademark that shows only the people you mentioned can use the slogan for anything. You can't because that is censorship. Also, so fiction cannot have any parallels to real life then? Is that what you are saying? Or in this case, if something in fiction is made and later real life uses something similar the work of fiction has to be changed? Black people are being murdered by cops every other week, if you don't see how this marketing scheme offends the relatives and loved ones of the deceased then God help you.
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Post by crusty on Aug 7, 2016 22:15:21 GMT
I think the Deus Ex marketing was pretty opportunistic. But it's a sad day if we're saying that fiction should no longer contain parallels to real world conflicts because someone might be offended over it.
The real irony and hypocrisy will come if Andromeda has storylines paralleling the refugee crisis in Europe.
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Post by masterwarderz on Aug 7, 2016 22:17:33 GMT
My thoughts exactly. I see no issue with it to begin with, just the double standards of the company. ._. But maybe that's because I actually have a brain and realize that dislike of other cultures, peoples and etc isn't ever going to go away like those liberal SJW morons who cry in their safe spaces about how they are oppressed. You though...Your alright, you get a cookie.
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Post by goishen on Aug 7, 2016 22:30:26 GMT
Right, but look at who's going to be playing this game (about 30-40%). Straight white males. If they're put in a situation where they can make the connection to Black Lives Matter from Aug Lives Matter, then all the better.
That's what writing does, it makes us think. It doesn't say life is happy and wonderful. So, no. I don't think the has any validity or any point at all. He's a loud mouth who should shut up. I certainly don't follow him on twitter, so I don't know if he will or not. He's talking to hear himself speak.
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Post by General Mahad on Aug 7, 2016 22:39:58 GMT
No he doesn't. That concept art was made before the BLM movement ever happened. Plus BLM don't own the rights to any Lives Matter slogan, especially since they aren't even the first to use such. The Lives Matter slogan belongs to ethnic minorities who have grievances over injustices committed against them by the authorities, it doesn't belong to one group of people and it sure as shit does not belong to fictional characters! Augs are not people. They do not exist. They are not real. I don't see no "X Lives Matter" trademark or copyright. Meaning people are free to use that slogan however they wish. Plus, in case you haven't noticed, it's a fictional universe that's drawing parallels with contemporary societal issues which is a way of allowing people to look at these issues from a different viewpoint.
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Post by dalinne on Aug 7, 2016 22:45:31 GMT
This thread...
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linksocarina
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Post by linksocarina on Aug 7, 2016 22:59:52 GMT
What the hell are you talking about? I am not really defending anything. Just giving my take on the matter. Of course. It just so happens that your take on the matter diminishes the gravity of casually encouraging violence against a racial group because it's "silly", he was "just saying", "he's an Indian" (so?), and "it's a twitter thing". Yeah, no it doesn't. First off, the first part of my post was sarcasm and pointing out the fallacy of his own statement (directly messaging/referencing something he is against in a complaint is always contradictory) Second, and more importantly, taking what people say on Twitter seriously is a problem, because most of what I see on twitter is basically shit posting and armchair intellectual analysis. I'm guilty of it too, don't get me wrong, ive done both in the past when i'm not talking to friends or just promoting something, but the ultimate point is I don't take twitter feeds seriously for any form of discourse. Sadly a lot of people do, and that tends to give us a weird sort of bubble where everything is taken as gospel. So yes, it is a twitter thing to me, and quite silly because again, him saying that in a public space will get his teeth knocked in. I can't take him seriously there. As to encouraging violence against a racial group, that's not what is really going on here. What is going on is what I said a few posts ago, he's a bit off on his own prejudices because ultimately, we all make judgements based on race and ethnicity that are not racist, but stereotyped. Heir is a victim of it just like we all are. Encouraging violence would be out in the streets actually killing all white people. It's as the song goes, Everyone is a little bit racist: The people who are racist don't talk about that, they act, and that encourages violence historically because others follow by example. ETA: I apologize if I seem a bit punchy in my reply here. I am a bit high strung at the moment and I don't want to come off as a jerk in any form, so sorry if I was a bit rough-sounding in my text, man.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Aug 8, 2016 3:36:36 GMT
General thread warning: Please keep discussion respectable and away from racially charged comments that may offend some users. Lock and/or specific user warnings will follow.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2016 3:52:15 GMT
The Lives Matter slogan belongs to ethnic minorities No. Lives matter belong to the human species. The problem is not saying that lives matter, the problem is the implied exclusion of "other" lives from different groups, specifically that other lives matter less or not at all. This attitude is the source of hashtags like #FuckNice #FuckFrance and so on, and this is exactly why racism is bad period. Not depending on "privilege", skin color, or whatever other BS. It is Black Lives Matter not Black Lives Only Matter. It is like going to the doctor and then telling him to treat your leg because yes you should keep every other part of your body healthy but at this moment your leg is the one with the problem.
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Toyish Batphone
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Post by Toyish Batphone on Aug 8, 2016 4:35:53 GMT
What the hell are you talking about? I am not really defending anything. Just giving my take on the matter. Of course. It just so happens that your take on the matter diminishes the gravity of casually encouraging violence against a racial group because it's "silly", he was "just saying", "he's an Indian" (so?), and "it's a twitter thing". Yep. The funny thing is I am an Indian as well and I will not and do not excuse Manveer of his reprehensible attitudes just because he is Indian or just because I am Indian.
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drrotinaj
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Post by drrotinaj on Aug 8, 2016 7:02:19 GMT
Fiction should absolutely contain parallels to the real world. Literally having "Augs Lives Matter" signs is just not good allegory, it's so tacky and on-the-nose. Regardless of anyone's feelings on BLM it shouldn't be difficult to understand how some might consider this lazy opportunism to be insensitive.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2016 9:16:16 GMT
I don't think anyone here is arguing the legality of using "Augs Lives Matters". No one cares about trademark issues. The question is should the devs use the slogan. I'll answer 'no'. In the current climate, its usage seems to trivialize the real world struggles black people face.
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Post by patches on Aug 8, 2016 11:44:28 GMT
"Augs Lives Matter" just seems like a cheap way to get a few extra headlines for an upcoming game. It's using real tragedies as a marketing scheme and they absolutely shouldn't be doing it but speaking more generally tit for tat racism is only going to make things worse.
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Post by pdusen on Aug 8, 2016 12:23:00 GMT
I just found myself in the weird position of agreeing with Hanako on an issue.
It's moments like these that make you stop and re-evaluate why you feel the way you do about something and whether your feelings are really valid.
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Post by Ieldra on Aug 8, 2016 12:52:11 GMT
I have no way to judge the context of those comments. Maybe it's just sarcasm. Doesn't change a thing though: if the same comments were made towards black people he would not away with them without a shitstorm. I do not like double standards.
Edit: This is also a prime example for Twitter being a suboptimal platform for discussing complex topics. I read the stuff about Deus Ex: Mankind Divided and I have no idea how I would answer, were I inclined to, because I don't understand why *exactly* he gets so upset. It it's just about appropriating a common meme, then he doesn't have a point. There seems to be more to it, however.
Edit2: I appreciate that we can discuss topics like this without being banned here. Nonetheless, I would prefer it that wouldn't become a trend. I'd rather talk about the games.
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Post by Sartoz on Aug 8, 2016 14:51:46 GMT
<<<<<<<<<<(0)>>>>>>>>>>
Sounds like he's more interested in "tweeting" than developing.
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turianspectre
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Post by turianspectre on Aug 8, 2016 14:55:08 GMT
<<<<<<<<<<(0)>>>>>>>>>> Sounds like he's more interested in "tweeting" than developing. Yup... lol How twitter are even letting him get away with posting such comments is inexcusable
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Post by CrutchCricket on Aug 8, 2016 16:16:42 GMT
Yeah, I'm thinking this thread has run its course. It's getting off topic and into areas that are just begging to explode. So...
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