Tevinter Nights - Spoiler Thread

You know another thing to add to this just a general theme. Solas did make it seem like the Veil coming down would be insta genocide for everyone around and the more I disect the lore and the more conversations I have the more that does not make any sense. I mean its been a long standing theory of mine but it just does not make sense. Its either his own irrational fear or a deliberate lie...I do not know for sure...but really if the Veil comes down things would get very bad but eventually a new equilibrium could well be reached. Eventually a new Civilization would rise.

While from a certain point of view you are absolutely correct, he is 'Pride' after all, I do not think he actually wants to rule anything in a post Veil rule.  In point of fact I can imagine many scenarios where he is going to end up dead at the end of the whole thing, and he knows it.  

(Though of course death does have a different meaning for the First of the Elven people)

I'm certainly not saying he doesen't.  

Though it is funny that you mention Thanos who is another character who I have some sympathy for.   Though now I am wondering what it says about modern fiction given the existance of both.  And well despite how monstrous both their actions are they both have a lot of intelligence and its a shame they choose to use it for such ill pursuits.  

Fascinating supposition.  Granted I would take everything said about the Thedas timeline with a certain grain of salt, for two reasons (which were discussed more or less in the Theory Thread too), A.  From an out of universe context I think BioWare could still be tweaking things and have contrary information (I mean hell look at the schism between Qarinus/ Ventus FCOL) and B. In universe you have unreliable narrators, unrealiable history, and revelations which has changed our knowledge from things almost since day 1 but really started to get driven home thematically in Inquisition...and I see no reason for this to stop now. Now that is not to say there isn't some truth in the tales and history as presented to this point...even from the Tevinter perspective...that is just to say that we should also be weary talking about any medeval history keeping historical records from that far back which could be lost to the mists of time to begin with.  I mean, what if, the Tevinter Imperium didn't actually destroy Arlathan but simply conflated the two from their own historical perspetctive at the time/ trying to make their accomplishments sound better then what it was?  What if Arlathan fell 2000 years prior to when we think it did, when the Veil went up, and then the Tevinters just sacked some random Elven city and just called it Arlathan either out or ignorance or political purposes?  Afterall what's his face in WPHW I believe mentioned that they did not destroy Arlathan but a remnant.  

On the other hand if we do take it at face value it actually draws another deliberate and stark parralel between Solas and Corypheus...who are already mirroring each other up the wazoo.  Consider Morrigan's comments on the matter in the Inquisition slides that he 'awoke to find a world changed from the one of magic he had left' and a lot of his own commentary throughout the game indicate the truth of that too (as an aside ARGH I just hate how bi polar Cory's writing was).  So in other words Corypheus woke in a world millenia after he fell asleep and found it entirely changed from the one he saw and then went about trying to fix it without getting a chance to appreciate the history or witness the changes first hand.  For him it was like flipping a light switch and not a slow progression.  So, if the timeline does hold up the same could be true of Solas.  He just woke up and saw a world changed very much from the one he left full of 'Tranquil's everywhere' and these strange fleshy humans and savage Qunari.  So naturally he looked about the past history and just assumed that putting up the Veil did all this...and again while he is right to an extent, there is some kernal of truth even in false history, but if Arlathan did fall that late then its only a kernal and maybe he does not bare as much responsibility as he assumes.  But because of pride and because he also is only looking back through history at a compacted lense he seeks to restore things on his own.  

There are a great many conversations with Solas that sound very reasonable at the time but in hindsight you can see he is probably trying to justify himself. His conversation with the Inquisitor after the Well of Sorrows is a particular case in point. He ask what they would do if they found the world a worse place for their actions. If you respond that you pick yourself up, look at what went wrong and try again, he seems delighted with the response because of course that is exactly what he plans to do. I actually find it hard to take any conversation of his at face value now but rather Solas finding a way to validate his own actions.

Not true. Even the old timeline in WoT has them arriving in -3100 and the elves only feeling the quickening in -2850 but the Keep pushes the timeline for the arrival of the humans back even further, I seem to recall to -3800, so a thousand years before the Veil. This is also confirmed by Avvar legends that seem to remember the home of the gods being taken up into the skies (Fade) so it could no longer be reached by mortals. The Dalish history of Arlathan also draws a distinction between the arrival of the humans, a change in behaviour in elves that mixed with them, catching human diseases (which could actually be another instance of blaming humans for something that was actually Andruil) and then feeling the quickening (which they also blamed on the humans).

Then the elves in Arlathan Forest withdrew from contact and presumably went into Uthenera, much like those in the Arbor Wilds did, only waking when humans invaded their forest. (There did seem some sort of expectation that ultimately things would return to normal eventually or why stay asleep?) For a long time it was reputed to be haunted and avoided as a result. However, "The human world was changing even as the elves slept. Clans and tribes gave way to a powerful empire called Tevinter, which—and for what reason we do not know—moved to conquer Elvhenan." According to Tevinter records it was because all attempts at peaceful co-existence had been rebuffed, which seems likely considering how the elves in the Arbor Wilds attacked on sight. Anyway, the descendants of the elves taken into captivity were under the mistaken impression that their city was the capital of Elvhenan, rather than as more likely a province or district of it.

What is also odd is that it is alleged that human mages only started to appear after the Veil. If magic wasn't in the human race before that time, my theory is that not all elves went into uthenera and those that stayed out in the world, inter married with humans until eventually all trace of them disappeared, except in the magic that was now in the human race. There may have also be other small enclaves of elves dotted around Thedas, particularly in the south, which after the fall of the city in the forest were also conquered by the Imperium as it expanded.

The city in the forest was not true Arlathan, only a part of it. The original capital of the empire straddled the Waking World and the Fade and was shattered as a result when the Veil was raised. Part of it, the Eternal/Golden/Black City still lies at the heart of the Fade and part of it, at least according to Maryden's song is under the sea somewhere. It is quite possible that some parts of Arlathan were actually in the Deep Roads. As the eluvians connected everywhere, it is easy to see how everyone could think they were part of the whole even if the individual districts were many miles apart.

Don't worry, I feel like this every time they change a bit of lore with the explanation of distortion of memory over time or inaccuracies or lack of knowledge of in-world reporter. It does seem that every race in Thedas has suffered from some sort of amnesia about the Veil, so it is only remembered through local folklore if at all. May be that was even an effect of the Veil that people were fuzzy about what went on before it. So unless it is recorded in the Memories of the dwarves (and there is the suggestion that even these may have been altered) or some other ancient record (but those of the elves are notoriously difficult to understand) it may not be accurate. However, it is possible to piece together something from what is claimed by in-world scholars, physical evidence and folklore, always subject it would seem to revision. For example, I do not understand why the Keep pushed the arrival of the humans back even further from the time of the Quickening but as that is more recent than WoT, I must assume that is the timeline the writers are now using.

I think this part is true. After the Veil it would seem the elders of the elves at least seemed to feel the best way to deal with the situation was to go into uthenera and await the return of the gods. Had some of them even contacted Fen'Harel and he assured them that was his ultimate aim? If not, then they probably assumed that the gods would find a way to return. Alternatively, perhaps those in uthenera were seeking ways to free them. Insert theory here that that the Old Gods were the chosen priests of the respective gods who had been permitted to take the form of dragons. May be they flew around a bit initially to gain the worship of the humans and then voluntarily went into hibernation in order to direct operations more effectively. Such beings could afford to take the long view, so a couple of thousand years or so would be nothing to them provided the end result was to free the gods from the Eternal City. Meanwhile their elven followers were instructed to go into uthenera to in order to conserve their numbers. Even the conquest of the city in Arlathan Forest could have been allowed in order to advance their agenda. However, when they finally reached their goal of breaching the gates of the City, the plan back-fired, unless of course they wanted the Blight released on the world.

I wonder where Mythal sent the piece of herself that she sent through the Eluvian at Inquisition's ending before Solas 'killed' her. I am hoping Yavanna or another of her daughters she squirrelled away somewhere in Tevinter. I wouldn't be surprised if she had a daughter in that general vicinity considering the various magical places and artefacts in the Imperium.

Except that Kieran might not have the Old God Soul. She probably sent a wisp of Mythal off to Morrigan so she could fulfill her role as "the Inheritor" while Solas absorbed her power/whatever was left to return to his previous level of godhood.

It says in WoT2 entry on Flemeth that they is said to be a Witch of the Wilds in Antiva, the Planasene Forest and the Nahashin Marches. We know that was definitely true of Antiva and I wouldn't guarantee that Yavana is dead simply because someone thought they had killed her. Her particular task that she had been trained for was to protect the last of the Great Dragons, so may be each daughter was assigned a role in Mythal's grand plan. When Alistair said that Flemeth possesses her daughters, as Morrigan had told him, Yavana said that Morrigan was a poor confused child and that it is a gift. That sounds as though she had already received a piece of Flemeth, another reason why she may not be dead, so there could potentially be two other pieces out there.



That was suggested in a leaked script but of course they could have changed their mind on this. The wisp she placed in the eluvian could have been the essence of Mythal that rose out of the Well of Sorrows to confront Corypheus. That went through the eluvian, presumably to reunite with the whole.