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Post by cloud9 on May 1, 2020 10:46:33 GMT
Its more of an asshole move than a tough decision. And the Salarian dalatrass promised to join the war effort against the Reapers, if the Genophage cure is sabotaged. I mean, that twat is so stupid and idiotic that she get her head out her own ass. Because the Reapers will eventually invade her homeworld at any moment, and the Krogan may be their best chance of turning the tide. War isn't just about gory tragedy, it's also about making impossible decisions. From a math standpoint, the salarians are crucial, their one of the three council races. They have significant numbers. from the cold aspect of calculus, screwing the krogan is the smartest move. That scene with Wrex symbolizes the horror of war without showing mangled bodies. The decision whether to gain the Krogan as allies, or to sabotage the Genophage is the best written main events of ME3. And it should be kept, but I'm saying that in certain circumstances (Aside from the main campaign of the Krogan), there will be times when you have to make the best of the bad options. And able to view the horrible events of war, instead of talking about it and not showing it. Because it needs to be intensive and raw how evil Reapers really are, and to show players that sometimes you have to make sacrifices for the sake of the galaxy.
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Post by themikefest on May 1, 2020 13:50:46 GMT
Ah yes the genophage. For me, I sabotage it, but if Bioware were to make ME4 with it cured, I wouldn't complain since I have completed a playthrough with it cured. Anyways. One of the reason's I don't cure it is because of Wrex. If Garrus is recruited and not Wrex, he will be waiting at the elevator to talk. During the conversation, he shoves/pushes Shepard for whatever reason. Then he wants to join Shepard. What? Why would I recruit him after he pushed/shoved Shepard? How does Shepard know if he will do something worst later on? Apparently he does, on Virmire. For some reason he believes his shotgun will get him what he wants. Sure he might be able to kill Shepard, but the other squadmates and the salarians will gun him down. So much for helping his species. He's just another stupid krogan. Why not flip the bird at Shepard to go get the cure himself? Because his shotgun wouldn't let him. He can be killed either by Williams or Shepard. For those who don't know. If Vakarian isn't recruited and t'soni isn't rescued, Wrex will always stand down no matter how mean Shepard can be towards him.
Along comes ME3. If the player chooses to sabotage the cure, Wrex shows up to eliminate Shepard. He has an audio recording. So what? That doesn't mean the cure was sabotaged. What proof does he have that it was? He's not a doctor or a scientist. It doesn't matter. His shotgun is telling him what to do. What he should have done is hold on to that recording to use for after the reapers are destroyed. He brings it to the council to say his species met their end of the bargain while Shepard didn't. But again, his shotgun wouldn't let him do that. Instead of his species looking up to him for acting civil, he instead dooms their future. Never understood why he was even considered to be a leader for his species. And yes, he is dumber than his brother Wreav. Why didn't Wreav question Shepard about the recording? Oh that's right, he wasn't in ME1. Bioware didn't want Shepard to betray Wrex. As said above. Who forwarded that recording to Wrex? Hmmm. ME4: To catch a snitch.
The other reason why my Shepard sabotages the cure is to get as mush resources as possible to destroy the reapers. The salarians offer help. Unfortunately my Shepard didn't foresee some dirtbag forwarding a recording to Wrex. Also the krogan aren't needed to destroy the reapers. I've had 0 krogan war assets while still getting the breath scene. How cool is that? But of course Shepard doesn't know that.
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Post by alanc9 on May 1, 2020 14:00:29 GMT
Sure, she's an idiot. But telling an idiot to "please stop being an idiot" isn't a strategy with a very high success rate. Shepard has to deal with her as she is. I know that. But calling the extinction of the Krogan, and losing allies that can help turn the tide is beyond stupid. But I'll keep the sequence of either cure or sabotage the cure, and outcomes because it is one of the best moments of ME3. And its well written. It's only stupid if you're caught.
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Post by therevanchist25 on May 1, 2020 16:51:24 GMT
War isn't just about gory tragedy, it's also about making impossible decisions. From a math standpoint, the salarians are crucial, their one of the three council races. They have significant numbers. from the cold aspect of calculus, screwing the krogan is the smartest move. That scene with Wrex symbolizes the horror of war without showing mangled bodies. Really, the only reason sabotaging the cure would benefit in the story is because there’s still sufficient krogan support regardless of your decision, or even who’s clan leader. Some krogan support dissolves, but it would’ve made more sense if the krogan pulled out completely and told the turians to drop dead, thereby leaving everyone else high and dry. If that happened, any support the salarians might offer would no longer be relevant. The war effort would simply collapse, and we’d get a mission critical failure because Wrex found out. The mistake I feel the game made was having Wrex somehow having access to your “secure” comms link to the Dalatrass, likely a traitor in the midst of the STG feeding info to them beyond Mordin/Padok. In any case, I think it could be argued that there’s a case for sabotaging the cure being the greater risk, and that the salarians would be stupid and short-sighted to stay out just because they don’t agree with the genophage cure, just like the asari were stupid to stay out of the summit. In the broader scheme of things, the genophage cure is really small potatoes. Even Shepard said it best when they say that the consequences “are nothing compared to if the reapers win”. If I had to choose between guaranteed extinction now and the possibility of a protracted war sometime in an undetermined future, I think the latter would be the sensible option. Heck, post-war, what kind of resources do the krogan even have at their disposal that would make them even remotely a threat for even a generation? If, say, Wreav decided to take this newfound revitalization of his species as a call to arms to fight the rest of the galaxy, what’s he gonna do it with? They can’t just march on every planet. They don’t even have their own ships, and it’s a fair bet that turian and salarian observatory outposts would monitor their progress and respond accordingly. The effects of their being demilitarized would hamstring their efforts to expand and invade other worlds, and their ability to storm other planets with sheer numbers mean nothing if they get blown out of the sky before they can make it anywhere. Germany was also forced to de-militarize and was watched afterwards....do I really need to explain further why that train of thought is silly?
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Post by KaiserShep on May 1, 2020 17:12:47 GMT
Really, the only reason sabotaging the cure would benefit in the story is because there’s still sufficient krogan support regardless of your decision, or even who’s clan leader. Some krogan support dissolves, but it would’ve made more sense if the krogan pulled out completely and told the turians to drop dead, thereby leaving everyone else high and dry. If that happened, any support the salarians might offer would no longer be relevant. The war effort would simply collapse, and we’d get a mission critical failure because Wrex found out. The mistake I feel the game made was having Wrex somehow having access to your “secure” comms link to the Dalatrass, likely a traitor in the midst of the STG feeding info to them beyond Mordin/Padok. In any case, I think it could be argued that there’s a case for sabotaging the cure being the greater risk, and that the salarians would be stupid and short-sighted to stay out just because they don’t agree with the genophage cure, just like the asari were stupid to stay out of the summit. In the broader scheme of things, the genophage cure is really small potatoes. Even Shepard said it best when they say that the consequences “are nothing compared to if the reapers win”. If I had to choose between guaranteed extinction now and the possibility of a protracted war sometime in an undetermined future, I think the latter would be the sensible option. Heck, post-war, what kind of resources do the krogan even have at their disposal that would make them even remotely a threat for even a generation? If, say, Wreav decided to take this newfound revitalization of his species as a call to arms to fight the rest of the galaxy, what’s he gonna do it with? They can’t just march on every planet. They don’t even have their own ships, and it’s a fair bet that turian and salarian observatory outposts would monitor their progress and respond accordingly. The effects of their being demilitarized would hamstring their efforts to expand and invade other worlds, and their ability to storm other planets with sheer numbers mean nothing if they get blown out of the sky before they can make it anywhere. Germany was also forced to de-militarize and was watched afterwards....do I really need to explain further why that train of thought is silly? Sure, but is this really an equal comparison? The only reason the genophage cure is even a discussion is because of the reapers. No one would give a shit about a cure if all they’d require is a major shift in how they manage their society to survive. But, none of that matters, because the world as everyone knows it is about on the brink of annihilation anyway. Whatever the krogan are capable of post-war, the reapers are infinitely worse. In terms of priorities, I’d say it weighs rather low on the scale.
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Post by therevanchist25 on May 1, 2020 17:17:40 GMT
Ah yes the genophage. For me, I sabotage it, but if Bioware were to make ME4 with it cured, I wouldn't complain since I have completed a playthrough with it cured. Anyways. One of the reason's I don't cure it is because of Wrex. If Garrus is recruited and not Wrex, he will be waiting at the elevator to talk. During the conversation, he shoves/pushes Shepard for whatever reason. Then he wants to join Shepard. What? Why would I recruit him after he pushed/shoved Shepard? How does Shepard know if he will do something worst later on? Apparently he does, on Virmire. For some reason he believes his shotgun will get him what he wants. Sure he might be able to kill Shepard, but the other squadmates and the salarians will gun him down. So much for helping his species. He's just another stupid krogan. Why not flip the bird at Shepard to go get the cure himself? Because his shotgun wouldn't let him. He can be killed either by Williams or Shepard. For those who don't know. If Vakarian isn't recruited and t'soni isn't rescued, Wrex will always stand down no matter how mean Shepard can be towards him.
Along comes ME3. If the player chooses to sabotage the cure, Wrex shows up to eliminate Shepard. He has an audio recording. So what? That doesn't mean the cure was sabotaged. What proof does he have that it was? He's not a doctor or a scientist. It doesn't matter. His shotgun is telling him what to do. What he should have done is hold on to that recording to use for after the reapers are destroyed. He brings it to the council to say his species met their end of the bargain while Shepard didn't. But again, his shotgun wouldn't let him do that. Instead of his species looking up to him for acting civil, he instead dooms their future. Never understood why he was even considered to be a leader for his species. And yes, he is dumber than his brother Wreav. Why didn't Wreav question Shepard about the recording? Oh that's right, he wasn't in ME1. Bioware didn't want Shepard to betray Wrex. As said above. Who forwarded that recording to Wrex? Hmmm. ME4: To catch a snitch.
The other reason why my Shepard sabotages the cure is to get as mush resources as possible to destroy the reapers. The salarians offer help. Unfortunately my Shepard didn't foresee some dirtbag forwarding a recording to Wrex. Also the krogan aren't needed to destroy the reapers. I've had 0 krogan war assets while still getting the breath scene. How cool is that? But of course Shepard doesn't know that.
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Post by therevanchist25 on May 1, 2020 17:27:15 GMT
Germany was also forced to de-militarize and was watched afterwards....do I really need to explain further why that train of thought is silly? Sure, but is this really an equal comparison? The only reason the genophage cure is even a discussion is because of the reapers. No one would give a shit about a cure if all they’d require is a major shift in how they manage their society to survive. But, none of that matters, because the world as everyone knows it is about on the brink of annihilation anyway. Whatever the krogan are capable of post-war, the reapers are infinitely worse. In terms of priorities, I’d say it weighs rather low on the scale. You are correct, but you cannot treat every situation like Tomorrow will never exist, kicking the can down the road for Future Milky Way to deal with. The post Reaper dark age gives the Krogan living on Tuchanka plenty of time to rebuild, and given that all the relays are gone, no one is in any position to stop them from possibly building WMDs or whatever else they might want to do to get revenge on a galaxy that screwed them over. Don't get me wrong, i trust Wrex. But Wrex is very old, and the other Krogan do not seem to share his vision, only following because he is the strongest.
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Post by cloud9 on May 1, 2020 19:54:46 GMT
Sure, but is this really an equal comparison? The only reason the genophage cure is even a discussion is because of the reapers. No one would give a shit about a cure if all they’d require is a major shift in how they manage their society to survive. But, none of that matters, because the world as everyone knows it is about on the brink of annihilation anyway. Whatever the krogan are capable of post-war, the reapers are infinitely worse. In terms of priorities, I’d say it weighs rather low on the scale. You are correct, but you cannot treat every situation like Tomorrow will never exist, kicking the can down the road for Future Milky Way to deal with. The post Reaper dark age gives the Krogan living on Tuchanka plenty of time to rebuild, and given that all the relays are gone, no one is in any position to stop them from possibly building WMDs or whatever else they might want to do to get revenge on a galaxy that screwed them over. Don't get me wrong, i trust Wrex. But Wrex is very old, and the other Krogan do not seem to share his vision, only following because he is the strongest. You can't predict the future. And it's up to them to change their ways and to become better people.
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Post by therevanchist25 on May 1, 2020 20:38:01 GMT
You are correct, but you cannot treat every situation like Tomorrow will never exist, kicking the can down the road for Future Milky Way to deal with. The post Reaper dark age gives the Krogan living on Tuchanka plenty of time to rebuild, and given that all the relays are gone, no one is in any position to stop them from possibly building WMDs or whatever else they might want to do to get revenge on a galaxy that screwed them over. Don't get me wrong, i trust Wrex. But Wrex is very old, and the other Krogan do not seem to share his vision, only following because he is the strongest. You can't predict the future. And it's up to them to change their ways and to become better people. Your right it is, but none of us can predict the future. Do you really think a post-Reaper war galaxy will be in any shape to stop a resurgent Krogan race, who may end up looking for revenge for generations of injustice? That is an awfully big chance to take, when the only reason people typically agree to cure it is because "Wrex is my bro it's cool, and Mordin believed it was cool so it's fine!"
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Post by Son of Dorn on May 1, 2020 20:46:48 GMT
You can't predict the future. And it's up to them to change their ways and to become better people. Your right it is, but none of us can predict the future. Do you really think a post-Reaper war galaxy will be in any shape to stop a resurgent Krogan race, who may end up looking for revenge for generations of injustice? That is an awfully big chance to take, when the only reason people typically agree to cure it is because "Wrex is my bro it's cool, and Mordin believed it was cool so it's fine!" I say that the big eyed backstabbing Xenos have it coming.
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Post by therevanchist25 on May 1, 2020 21:33:55 GMT
Your right it is, but none of us can predict the future. Do you really think a post-Reaper war galaxy will be in any shape to stop a resurgent Krogan race, who may end up looking for revenge for generations of injustice? That is an awfully big chance to take, when the only reason people typically agree to cure it is because "Wrex is my bro it's cool, and Mordin believed it was cool so it's fine!" I say that the big eyed backstabbing Xenos have it coming. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. I suspect you'll love TLOU Part 2, since it's all about merciless revenge with no second chances.
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Post by Son of Dorn on May 1, 2020 21:53:21 GMT
I say that the big eyed backstabbing Xenos have it coming. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. I suspect you'll love TLOU Part 2, since it's all about merciless revenge with no second chances. I'd say it's more of an overdue punishment for the salarians and the asari, who used the krogan as cannon fodder in the Rachni Wars.
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Post by KaiserShep on May 1, 2020 23:46:28 GMT
Sure, but is this really an equal comparison? The only reason the genophage cure is even a discussion is because of the reapers. No one would give a shit about a cure if all they’d require is a major shift in how they manage their society to survive. But, none of that matters, because the world as everyone knows it is about on the brink of annihilation anyway. Whatever the krogan are capable of post-war, the reapers are infinitely worse. In terms of priorities, I’d say it weighs rather low on the scale. You are correct, but you cannot treat every situation like Tomorrow will never exist, kicking the can down the road for Future Milky Way to deal with. The post Reaper dark age gives the Krogan living on Tuchanka plenty of time to rebuild, and given that all the relays are gone, no one is in any position to stop them from possibly building WMDs or whatever else they might want to do to get revenge on a galaxy that screwed them over. Don't get me wrong, i trust Wrex. But Wrex is very old, and the other Krogan do not seem to share his vision, only following because he is the strongest. It’s a gamble, to be certain. Even the Primarch considers it as such when he says he’d rather deal with a grateful ally than a resentful enemy. It was a gamble to let the rachni queen live, to let Balak go, to keep the heretic geth, to broker peace on Rannoch, to pick Destroy. The krogan could rise up and try to take over the galaxy, but maybe they won’t. I like to defer to Mordin’s judgment on this one, since maybe not dooming a species could bear fruit in the future. I definitely wouldn’t expect everyone to just join hands and sing kumbaya, but something to consider is that maybe the krogan would be the least of our problems in a post-war society. My money’s on the salarians. These lousy frog people are the source of many of these other problems, and they get a pass too often. Heck, we catch the STG in the middle of some sort of Yagh experiment. They’ll be in the prime position to stir up more shit later, since Sur’kesh didn’t really deal with the reapers directly.
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Post by cloud9 on May 2, 2020 4:45:22 GMT
You can't predict the future. And it's up to them to change their ways and to become better people. Your right it is, but none of us can predict the future. Do you really think a post-Reaper war galaxy will be in any shape to stop a resurgent Krogan race, who may end up looking for revenge for generations of injustice? That is an awfully big chance to take, when the only reason people typically agree to cure it is because "Wrex is my bro it's cool, and Mordin believed it was cool so it's fine!" Not saying that it will be all sunshine, flowers, and bunnies. There will be challenges, hardships, and conflict when it comes to change. But from where I see, having Wrex as the ruler of Krogan along with the female can shape the future of the Krogan.
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Post by burningcherry on May 2, 2020 19:22:39 GMT
Even Walters doesn't exactly believe in sunshine, bunnies and flowers (4:13)
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Post by cloud9 on May 2, 2020 21:34:49 GMT
Even Walters doesn't exactly believe in sunshine, bunnies and flowers (4:13) Problem is that he can't write a concise story to save his life, and he's giving non answers to questions.
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Post by Energizer Bunny 211 on May 3, 2020 4:01:17 GMT
Even Walters doesn't exactly believe in sunshine, bunnies and flowers (4:13) Problem is that he can't write a concise story to save his life, and he's giving non answers to questions. I've watched this video twice now, and at no point does he actually answer any of the questions. He dances around the questions, going off on tangents, pretends to answer questions with more questions....But all his words go nowhere. Don't get me wrong, I love Mass Effect, it's the best game series I've ever played--the characters are some of the best written characters I've come across in any form of media...But there's something *off* when the creator/Lead Writer...the person responsible for creating a franchise to begin with can't or won't answer straight-forward questions to which he, being the creator of everything that is (Mass Effect in this case), should know the answers to. Say what you will about George Lucas, but at least he could speak with an informed knowledge about the world he created (speaking of the OT/PT). I remember the three-part interview on the 1995 THX Boxset VHS that Lucas did with Leonard Maltin about about creation and marketing of the STAR WARS Trilogy. It was a very good interview, I thought. Interviewers such as Leonard Maltin would ask him a question, a thoughtful, direct question, and Lucas would give an informed, intelligible answer that made sense according to the canon/mythology as he wrote it at that time. Mac Walters didn't do anything even remotely like that.
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Post by Son of Dorn on May 3, 2020 4:04:58 GMT
Problem is that he can't write a concise story to save his life, and he's giving non answers to questions. I've watched this video twice now, and at no point does he actually answer any of the questions. He dances around the questions, going off on tangents, pretends to answer questions with more questions....But all his words go nowhere. Don't get me wrong, I love Mass Effect, it's the best game series I've ever played--the characters are some of the best written characters I've come across in any form of media...But there's something *off* when the creator/Lead Writer...the person responsible for creating a franchise to begin with can't or won't answer straight-forward questions to which he, being the creator of everything that is (Mass Effect in this case), should know the answers to. Say what you will about George Lucas, but at least he could speak with an informed knowledge about the world he created (speaking of the OT/PT). I remember the three-part interview on the 1995 THX Boxset VHS that Lucas did with Leonard Maltin about about creation and marketing of the STAR WARS Trilogy. It was a very good interview, I thought. Interviewers such as Leonard Maltin would ask him a question, a thoughtful, direct question, and Lucas would give an informed, intelligible answer that made sense according to the canon/mythology as he wrote it at that time. Mac Walters didn't do anything even remotely like that. I think I said this before, buuut.... Mac Walters is a hack.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2020 6:09:15 GMT
Problem is that he can't write a concise story to save his life. Neither can you.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on May 3, 2020 13:48:16 GMT
Apparently he does, on Virmire. For some reason he believes his shotgun will get him what he wants. Sure he might be able to kill Shepard, but the other squadmates and the salarians will gun him down. So much for helping his species. He's just another stupid krogan. Yes how dare someone who cares about his race get upset and gain an itchy trigger finger when he learns that a possible cure to his species wide sterility plague might exist. And now he is faced with the catch 22 instance of stop Saren and lose the potential cure or don't stop Saren and let his plan come to pass which causes the krogan to lose anyways. Wrex's reaction is the most realistic out of everyone there. Everyone else seems to have the reaction of "Oh well guess we now have to assault thigh highly fortified building filled to the brim with Geth and Krogan with nothing more then 6 Salarians as support"
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on May 3, 2020 14:00:02 GMT
Say what you will about George Lucas, but at least he could speak with an informed knowledge about the world he created (speaking of the OT/PT). I seem to remember an event were Lucas wanted to have Maul team up with another female Sith. The only problem being that said female Sith was from the Old Republic and about 4,000+ years older then Maul and very much dead by old age at that point. But old George didn't care he wanted them in the same game. Then the game was canceled when he sold it to Disney.
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Post by Son of Dorn on May 3, 2020 14:19:31 GMT
Apparently he does, on Virmire. For some reason he believes his shotgun will get him what he wants. Sure he might be able to kill Shepard, but the other squadmates and the salarians will gun him down. So much for helping his species. He's just another stupid krogan. Yes how dare someone who cares about his race get upset and gain an itchy trigger finger when he learns that a possible cure to his species wide sterility plague might exist. And now he is faced with the catch 22 instance of stop Saren and lose the potential cure or don't stop Saren and let his plan come to pass which causes the krogan to lose anyways. Wrex's reaction is the most realistic out of everyone there. Everyone else seems to have the reaction of "Oh well guess we now have to assault thigh highly fortified building filled to the brim with Geth and Krogan with nothing more then 6 Salarians as support" 6 salarians as support?! Yep, we're screwed....
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1480
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1,080
gothpunkboy89
2,311
September 2016
gothpunkboy89
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on May 3, 2020 15:17:36 GMT
Yes how dare someone who cares about his race get upset and gain an itchy trigger finger when he learns that a possible cure to his species wide sterility plague might exist. And now he is faced with the catch 22 instance of stop Saren and lose the potential cure or don't stop Saren and let his plan come to pass which causes the krogan to lose anyways. Wrex's reaction is the most realistic out of everyone there. Everyone else seems to have the reaction of "Oh well guess we now have to assault thigh highly fortified building filled to the brim with Geth and Krogan with nothing more then 6 Salarians as support" 6 salarians as support?! Yep, we're screwed.... 6 Salarians and a Human that some how manages to pose enough of a threat to get the undivided attention of an entire base. In any sane or even vaugly realistic universe it would get maybe a couple dozen people if not simply calling in an air strike on their location from a few Geth ships. If not just some artillery strikes from the base depending on if they had any artillery to defend the base.
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2754
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Nov 26, 2024 23:01:44 GMT
6,018
Son of Dorn
Fortifying everything.
6,312
Jan 11, 2017 14:17:27 GMT
January 2017
doomlolz
Dragon Age Inquisition
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Post by Son of Dorn on May 3, 2020 15:29:08 GMT
6 salarians as support?! Yep, we're screwed.... 6 Salarians and a Human that some how manages to pose enough of a threat to get the undivided attention of an entire base. In any sane or even vaugly realistic universe it would get maybe a couple dozen people if not simply calling in an air strike on their location from a few Geth ships. If not just some artillery strikes from the base depending on if they had any artillery to defend the base. That's one of the reasons why I eyeroll the things that were in the MET, no real military tactics.
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975
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1,681
cloud9
3,876
Aug 14, 2016 11:41:22 GMT
August 2016
cloud9
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2
sicklyhour015
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Post by cloud9 on May 3, 2020 15:34:18 GMT
KaiserShep I don't think cloud is aware of the thing they are referencing with that: The Man, the myth, the legend known as Leroy Jenkins! you have to realize that cloud9 does across with no sense of humor. Side note: No matter how dark it gets, humor is very important. Even if Bioware asks me to buy one of my player characters ideas, I would request that their respective stories has a healthy dose of humor. I like humor. But it's a stupid reason for a squadmate to die so quickly, just for the sake of having a new character on the team.
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