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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Jul 10, 2020 13:36:37 GMT
The imperium has reasons to wipe out a planet, like preventing it from falling to Chaos or feeding the Tyranids. The Reapers kill advanced organic life because Starkid has a raging God Complex. So it's not the same. The Reapers equally have reasons to wipe out intelligent life. The Imperium has genocides dozens of races even killing young races while they were still primitive (Tau got lucky) all because of an egotistical view that only humanity has a right to exist. Reapers hand select races to be harvested while still leaving worlds capable of supporting life and allowing life in the galaxy to flourish and develop while stopping the singularity that would render the galaxy sterile.
The fact you are into Warhammer 40k amazes me that you can not see were the Reapers are coming from because the entirety of 40k is based around this kind of logic. Every faction commits horrible actions that kill millions to achieve a goal they think is necessary and there is rational behind their actions. Orks are the only group that doesn't fall into this patter and that is only because fighting and killing is all they know and care about. So there is no reason behind their action beyond having fun.
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Fortifying everything.
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doomlolz
Dragon Age Inquisition
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jul 10, 2020 13:56:41 GMT
The imperium has reasons to wipe out a planet, like preventing it from falling to Chaos or feeding the Tyranids. The Reapers kill advanced organic life because Starkid has a raging God Complex. So it's not the same. The Reapers equally have reasons to wipe out intelligent life. The Imperium has genocides dozens of races even killing young races while they were still primitive (Tau got lucky) all because of an egotistical view that only humanity has a right to exist. Reapers hand select races to be harvested while still leaving worlds capable of supporting life and allowing life in the galaxy to flourish and develop while stopping the singularity that would render the galaxy sterile.
The fact you are into Warhammer 40k amazes me that you can not see were the Reapers are coming from because the entirety of 40k is based around this kind of logic. Every faction commits horrible actions that kill millions to achieve a goal they think is necessary and there is rational behind their actions. Orks are the only group that doesn't fall into this patter and that is only because fighting and killing is all they know and care about. So there is no reason behind their action beyond having fun.
The Reapers and Starkid have no reason behind their so called "logic" then to fulfill their need to be superior and to be viewed as gods by the lesser beings. The whole "organic Vs machine" Starkid was created to solve existed when it's creators were the apex race in the galaxy back then, but seeing as one of its own forced the geth to attack Eden Prime, with the possibility of another Reaper Vanguard being involved in the Metacon War, leaves the question: does Starkid play a hand in those wars? Because from what is told in the MET, it seems like it does. |
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Post by themikefest on Jul 10, 2020 14:24:45 GMT
ah yes, logic. Let's go back to the beginning of stupid. In other words, Leviathan. One day, while Leviathan was catching some rays on the beach, it noticed there wasn't as many thralls as there use to be. A meeting is called to figure out what's going on. The end result was they created an intelligence to fix the problem. Since Leviathan suffers from politician syndrome, the big head, they forgot to add restrictions to the thing. Back on the beach, they see a giant blender grabbing Leviathan. It's at that moment they realized their big head caught up to them.
For however long, thing has it's reapers harvest the galaxy. After a while, it was getting bored, so it instructed it's toys to build a relay network that would make the cycle shorter, or as Leviathan calls it, more efficient. For a time it worked without running into any problems. But something happened, a power unlke the reapers have never seen, plot. This plot has the protheans figuring out how to alter the signal the reapers use to gain access to the Citadel relay to start the harvest.
Even then thing didn't realize it could fly it's toys to the galaxy without using the Citadel relay. It relied on a reaper to fix the problem. It controls a bunch of machines called the geth yet they already had the collectors under their control. Ooops. Got to remember that word plot likes to interfere with things. By the time the reapers get to the galaxy, it was already too late. They were under the spell of a power that they couldn't comprehend, plot. They ended up doing stupid things they would normally not have done. As thing watches the organic shoot the tube, it realizes it was no match for the power of plot.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jul 10, 2020 14:28:15 GMT
ah yes, logic. Let's go back to the beginning of stupid. In other words, Leviathan. One day, while Leviathan was catching some rays on the beach, it noticed there wasn't as many thralls as there use to be. A meeting is called to figure out what's going on. The end result was they created an intelligence to fix the problem. Since Leviathan suffers from politician syndrome, the big head, they forgot to add restrictions to the thing. Back on the beach, they see a giant blender grabbing Leviathan. It's at that moment they realized their big head caught up to them. For however long, thing has it's reapers harvest the galaxy. After a while, it was getting bored, so it instructed it's toys to build a relay network that would make the cycle shorter, or as Leviathan calls it, more efficient. For a time it worked without running into any problems. But something happened, a power unlke the reapers have never seen, plot. This plot has the protheans figuring out how to alter the signal the reapers use to gain access to the Citadel relay to start the harvest. Even then thing didn't realize it could fly it's toys to the galaxy without using the Citadel relay. It relied on a reaper to fix the problem. It controls a bunch of machines called the geth yet they already had the collectors under their control. Ooops. Got to remember that word plot likes to interfere with things. By the time the reapers get to the galaxy, it was already too late. They were under the spell of a power that they couldn't comprehend, plot. They ended up doing stupid things they would normally not have done. As thing watches the organic shoot the tube, it realizes it was no match for the power of plot. Because the Qun - damn it again! - the PLOT demands it! |
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jul 10, 2020 15:38:09 GMT
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Jul 10, 2020 16:03:48 GMT
The Reapers equally have reasons to wipe out intelligent life. The Imperium has genocides dozens of races even killing young races while they were still primitive (Tau got lucky) all because of an egotistical view that only humanity has a right to exist. Reapers hand select races to be harvested while still leaving worlds capable of supporting life and allowing life in the galaxy to flourish and develop while stopping the singularity that would render the galaxy sterile.
The fact you are into Warhammer 40k amazes me that you can not see were the Reapers are coming from because the entirety of 40k is based around this kind of logic. Every faction commits horrible actions that kill millions to achieve a goal they think is necessary and there is rational behind their actions. Orks are the only group that doesn't fall into this patter and that is only because fighting and killing is all they know and care about. So there is no reason behind their action beyond having fun.
The Reapers and Starkid have no reason behind their so called "logic" then to fulfill their need to be superior and to be viewed as gods by the lesser beings. The whole "organic Vs machine" Starkid was created to solve existed when it's creators were the apex race in the galaxy back then, but seeing as one of its own forced the geth to attack Eden Prime, with the possibility of another Reaper Vanguard being involved in the Metacon War, leaves the question: does Starkid play a hand in those wars? Because from what is told in the MET, it seems like it does. If they wanted to be superior and gods they would have dominated the galaxy and compelled worship from the various races. It would have been as easy to do as a Legion of Word Bears showing up on a feudal planet with technology in the early industrial revolution being crushed and compelled to obey by one transhuman power armored fist to the jaw. They did this to hundreds of planets and the only reason anyone noticed was because their Legion was far behind the others in planetary conquest. And in seeking religion Logar was the first Primarch to fall and the Word Bearers the first Legion to join Chaos.
Leviathan created the Catalyst because their thrall races kept creating synthetic life and then it kept rebelling wiping out thrall races. But Leviathan also only had thrall races because they could mentally dominate entire populations. The same way synthetics rebelled against their creators would the thrall races have rebelled against Leviathan should a way to block or stop their psyker power be wide spread enough. Because no one likes to be subservient to another. Ork Freebooters are a good example as they literally abandon what is considered normal ork behavior (by the orks anyways) to just roam the stars and steal and pillage and sell their services to anyone who can pay and offer a good time.
The Metacon War wasn't the vanguard of the Reapers. The Reapers literally pop out of the Citadel like a jack in the box. The only reason Sovereign used the Geth to attack was because the Protheans altered the signal so the Keepers wouldn't respond to the Reaper signal So Sovereign had to directly gain access to the Citadel to activate the Relay and send in the Reapers. The Prothean Empire was founded when they forcibly united all organic races in a join or die method. And the time it would take for all races to consider themselves Prothean so it would appear to archeologists 50,000 years later that only the Protheans were around would take hundreds of years to erase cultural vestiges to leave the impression in dig sites across the galaxy for there to be only 1 active space faring race. I mean don't get me wrong the Reapers would absolutely use the Metacon for their own devices during the invasion. But there is 0 reason for them to have started a war just to unite the various races in the galaxy to then invade. Their entire strategy involves divide and conquer.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jul 10, 2020 16:11:23 GMT
The Reapers and Starkid have no reason behind their so called "logic" then to fulfill their need to be superior and to be viewed as gods by the lesser beings. The whole "organic Vs machine" Starkid was created to solve existed when it's creators were the apex race in the galaxy back then, but seeing as one of its own forced the geth to attack Eden Prime, with the possibility of another Reaper Vanguard being involved in the Metacon War, leaves the question: does Starkid play a hand in those wars? Because from what is told in the MET, it seems like it does. If they wanted to be superior and gods they would have dominated the galaxy and compelled worship from the various races. It would have been as easy to do as a Legion of Word Bears showing up on a feudal planet with technology in the early industrial revolution being crushed and compelled to obey by one transhuman power armored fist to the jaw. They did this to hundreds of planets and the only reason anyone noticed was because their Legion was far behind the others in planetary conquest. And in seeking religion Logar was the first Primarch to fall and the Word Bearers the first Legion to join Chaos.
Leviathan created the Catalyst because their thrall races kept creating synthetic life and then it kept rebelling wiping out thrall races. But Leviathan also only had thrall races because they could mentally dominate entire populations. The same way synthetics rebelled against their creators would the thrall races have rebelled against Leviathan should a way to block or stop their psyker power be wide spread enough. Because no one likes to be subservient to another. Ork Freebooters are a good example as they literally abandon what is considered normal ork behavior (by the orks anyways) to just roam the stars and steal and pillage and sell their services to anyone who can pay and offer a good time.
The Metacon War wasn't the vanguard of the Reapers. The Reapers literally pop out of the Citadel like a jack in the box. The only reason Sovereign used the Geth to attack was because the Protheans altered the signal so the Keepers wouldn't respond to the Reaper signal So Sovereign had to directly gain access to the Citadel to activate the Relay and send in the Reapers. The Prothean Empire was founded when they forcibly united all organic races in a join or die method. And the time it would take for all races to consider themselves Prothean so it would appear to archeologists 50,000 years later that only the Protheans were around would take hundreds of years to erase cultural vestiges to leave the impression in dig sites across the galaxy for there to be only 1 active space faring race. I mean don't get me wrong the Reapers would absolutely use the Metacon for their own devices during the invasion. But there is 0 reason for them to have started a war just to unite the various races in the galaxy to then invade. Their entire strategy involves divide and conquer.
ME doesn't have psykers, so wtf? I didn't say the Metacon were a vanguard of the Reapers, I said it was possible that a REAPER VANGUARD could have done the same the thing that Sov did to the geth. So stop twisting my words. |
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Jul 10, 2020 16:32:27 GMT
If they wanted to be superior and gods they would have dominated the galaxy and compelled worship from the various races. It would have been as easy to do as a Legion of Word Bears showing up on a feudal planet with technology in the early industrial revolution being crushed and compelled to obey by one transhuman power armored fist to the jaw. They did this to hundreds of planets and the only reason anyone noticed was because their Legion was far behind the others in planetary conquest. And in seeking religion Logar was the first Primarch to fall and the Word Bearers the first Legion to join Chaos.
Leviathan created the Catalyst because their thrall races kept creating synthetic life and then it kept rebelling wiping out thrall races. But Leviathan also only had thrall races because they could mentally dominate entire populations. The same way synthetics rebelled against their creators would the thrall races have rebelled against Leviathan should a way to block or stop their psyker power be wide spread enough. Because no one likes to be subservient to another. Ork Freebooters are a good example as they literally abandon what is considered normal ork behavior (by the orks anyways) to just roam the stars and steal and pillage and sell their services to anyone who can pay and offer a good time.
The Metacon War wasn't the vanguard of the Reapers. The Reapers literally pop out of the Citadel like a jack in the box. The only reason Sovereign used the Geth to attack was because the Protheans altered the signal so the Keepers wouldn't respond to the Reaper signal So Sovereign had to directly gain access to the Citadel to activate the Relay and send in the Reapers. The Prothean Empire was founded when they forcibly united all organic races in a join or die method. And the time it would take for all races to consider themselves Prothean so it would appear to archeologists 50,000 years later that only the Protheans were around would take hundreds of years to erase cultural vestiges to leave the impression in dig sites across the galaxy for there to be only 1 active space faring race. I mean don't get me wrong the Reapers would absolutely use the Metacon for their own devices during the invasion. But there is 0 reason for them to have started a war just to unite the various races in the galaxy to then invade. Their entire strategy involves divide and conquer.
ME doesn't have psykers, so wtf? I didn't say the Metacon were a vanguard of the Reapers, I said it was possible that a REAPER VANGUARD could have done the same the thing that Sov did to the geth. So stop twisting my words. Leviathan's ability to mentally dominate people and literally rip a Reaper down out of the sky is very much psyker powers from 40k. Big E used the first a lot.
Possible but highly unlikely given the time frame needed and the fact the Reapers popped out of the Citadel like the world's most terrifying jack in the box.
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Post by KaiserShep on Jul 10, 2020 16:34:48 GMT
As I said before Humans exist because of the Reapers. Our garden world if settled by a race 10 million years ago would have drastically altered our evolutionary path resulting in humanity not developing as it is in the game if it develops at all. Our ancient ancestors could have been killed off to turned into pets and had the pug treatment done to us.
This isn’t really a guarantee, especially if the relays don’t exist. But for sake of argument, if a spacefaring race 10 million years ago did stumble on the earth and decided to colonize it, it wouldn’t really be any particular loss, obviously outside of retrospect. Every race currently colonizing throughout the galaxy might have robbed a few worlds of its potential to develop its own native civilizations from the indigenous fauna’s by developing over key habitats that might’ve sprouted something meaningful way off in the future. In any case, that’s not really a case for the reapers being particularly beneficial. Organics wiping out other organics doesn’t seem to be of particular concern, like when the rachni were [presumably] wiped out. If instead the turians convinced the salarians to create a true sterility plague and simply commit all-out genocide on the krogan, doubtful Sovereign would’ve written home about that. Any particular species managing to make it to technological advancement due to galactic society constantly being torn down over and over again would be purely inadvertent.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jul 10, 2020 16:38:43 GMT
ME doesn't have psykers, so wtf? I didn't say the Metacon were a vanguard of the Reapers, I said it was possible that a REAPER VANGUARD could have done the same the thing that Sov did to the geth. So stop twisting my words. Leviathan's ability to mentally dominate people and literally rip a Reaper down out of the sky is very much psyker powers from 40k. Big E used the first a lot.
Possible but highly unlikely given the time frame needed and the fact the Reapers popped out of the Citadel like the world's most terrifying jack in the box.
Ok, 1. That Leviathan didn't "rip a Reaper from the sky", it triggered a EMP blast from those orbs. And 2, it was never said when the Metacon War began. For all we know they could have been infected by the Reaper virus, killed their creators, and then encountered the protheans afterwards. |
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Jul 10, 2020 16:45:53 GMT
Leviathan's ability to mentally dominate people and literally rip a Reaper down out of the sky is very much psyker powers from 40k. Big E used the first a lot.
Possible but highly unlikely given the time frame needed and the fact the Reapers popped out of the Citadel like the world's most terrifying jack in the box.
Ok, 1. That Leviathan didn't "rip a Reaper from the sky", it triggered a EMP blast from those orbs. And 2, it was never said when the Metacon War began. For all we know they could have been infected by the Reaper virus, killed their creators, and then encountered the protheans afterwards. As a narrative point, I’d say the reapers probably had nothing to do with whatever the machines were in the Metacom war. Being fictional, if there’s no implicit or explicit mention, it stands to reason that nothing happens there. However, we have the geth, the rachni and the Zha’til as cases of reaper manipulation meant to turn a population of the galaxy against one another, and the Zha didn’t seem to have any inherent problems with their synthetic symbiotes until they got hijacked.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jul 10, 2020 16:50:18 GMT
Ok, 1. That Leviathan didn't "rip a Reaper from the sky", it triggered a EMP blast from those orbs. And 2, it was never said when the Metacon War began. For all we know they could have been infected by the Reaper virus, killed their creators, and then encountered the protheans afterwards. As a narrative point, I’d say the reapers probably had nothing to do with whatever the machines were in the Metacom war. Being fictional, if there’s no implicit or explicit mention, it stands to reason that nothing happens there. However, we have the geth, the rachni and the Zha’til as cases of reaper manipulation meant to turn a population of the galaxy against one another, and the Zha didn’t seem to have any inherent problems with their synthetic symbiotes until they got hijacked. It would have been nice if it was expored more then what it was in the actual game. But that would have broken the "speculation for everyone!" theme Mac and Hudson were going for.😒 |
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Jul 10, 2020 16:55:17 GMT
Why? Your entire stance is trying to argue morality as if morality is a universal construct when it is in fact what ever the fuck anyone wants it to be. Particularly hypocritical given that humanity has committed the same genocide and extinction that the Reapers have done just on a smaller scale. Which makes humanity just as bad as the Reapers. Though I assume the Asari, Turian, Quarian and the like had similar histories the fact that according to the game Humanity follows the same normal history as humanity up to the discovery of the Mars Station.
You also provide arbitrary value to lives for no other reason then you think they have value. And yet that is not a universal concept. The Krogan don't think all lives have the same value and wouldn't hesitate to kill someone who they deemed an annoyance no matter who or what they are. The Rachni saw now value in the lives of the Asari or Salarians and started a massive war with them. The Krogan showed up and showed no value in the lives of the Rachni and committed total genocide of the species. Then saw no lives in the Asari and Salarians and started a massive war literally using planet killing weapons. And even on smaller scale people steal and murder all the time. Cerberus literally abducted children from their parents to experiment on them in the hopes of creating the ultimate human biotic. Saying "I think" isn't the inescapable fool proof logic you think it is as everyone has their own views that vary from a little to a whole lot but at the end of the day it is an opinion. One that just because a lot of people agree with doesn't make it correct or the only way to view things. It is an interesting philosophical question about the nature of morality and how everyone sees things differently and would be interesting to have a conversation about if you were not so adamant that your view is the only possible correct one simply because it is your view.
The Reapers see the galaxy a much different way then you do and the fact you can't even begin to try and understand it really only helps prove the Catalyst's conclusion. Combined with the fact you claim the Reapers are wrong while using every example of Reaper action both direct and indirect which without would have had drastically different outcomes. Undermines your arguments to me time and time again.
By no means is BioWare's writing perfect in the original trilogy but the Reaper's actions and logic make perfect sense if you are capable of looking at things from their perspective. One that is so many people seem to struggle with. When Sovereign said the Reapers were beyond understanding I thought that was just a throw away line to make them seems deep and mysterious. But after so many years after the game ended I find the worlds to still be true. Because people can not put their own world views a side to look at things from their perspective without coloring the Reaper's actions with their own opinions and ideas.
You don't have to agree with them and you can go destroy every single ending and consider it the only valid option in your opinion and that is fine. But the actions and logic of the Reapers makes sense.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Jul 10, 2020 17:04:03 GMT
Leviathan's ability to mentally dominate people and literally rip a Reaper down out of the sky is very much psyker powers from 40k. Big E used the first a lot.
Possible but highly unlikely given the time frame needed and the fact the Reapers popped out of the Citadel like the world's most terrifying jack in the box.
Ok, 1. That Leviathan didn't "rip a Reaper from the sky", it triggered a EMP blast from those orbs. And 2, it was never said when the Metacon War began. For all we know they could have been infected by the Reaper virus, killed their creators, and then encountered the protheans afterwards. How can it create an electromagnetic pulse strong enough to kill a Reaper but not effect the Shuttle Craft nor fry everyone in side of it? How could those same orbs be used to so utterly dominate the minds of the one colony when the Leviathans pulled back their control the people were not aware that months had passed?
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Post by themikefest on Jul 10, 2020 17:05:35 GMT
It's hard to see the reapers perspective when you're not a reaper. All I see is a bunch of over-sized machines killing organics. If a reaper saw things from an organic perspective, would they understand why organics want to stop them?
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jul 10, 2020 17:13:06 GMT
Ok, 1. That Leviathan didn't "rip a Reaper from the sky", it triggered a EMP blast from those orbs. And 2, it was never said when the Metacon War began. For all we know they could have been infected by the Reaper virus, killed their creators, and then encountered the protheans afterwards. How can it create an electromagnetic pulse strong enough to kill a Reaper but not effect the Shuttle Craft nor fry everyone in side of it? How could those same orbs be used to so utterly dominate the minds of the one colony when the Leviathans pulled back their control the people were not aware that months had passed? *Sigh* Did you even play the dlc? It does crash the shuttle when it enters the planet they are hiding on. And EMP's don't effect organic tissue, why the hell would it harm them? And the orbs allow them to do their dominate bioitc power thing, thus allowing them to fully control them. Just like Samara's daughter does to her victims. |
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Jul 10, 2020 17:13:45 GMT
As I said before Humans exist because of the Reapers. Our garden world if settled by a race 10 million years ago would have drastically altered our evolutionary path resulting in humanity not developing as it is in the game if it develops at all. Our ancient ancestors could have been killed off to turned into pets and had the pug treatment done to us.
This isn’t really a guarantee, especially if the relays don’t exist. But for sake of argument, if a spacefaring race 10 million years ago did stumble on the earth and decided to colonize it, it wouldn’t really be any particular loss, obviously outside of retrospect. Every race currently colonizing throughout the galaxy might have robbed a few worlds of its potential to develop its own native civilizations from the indigenous fauna’s by developing over key habitats that might’ve sprouted something meaningful way off in the future. In any case, that’s not really a case for the reapers being particularly beneficial. Organics wiping out other organics doesn’t seem to be of particular concern, like when the rachni were [presumably] wiped out. If instead the turians convinced the salarians to create a true sterility plague and simply commit all-out genocide on the krogan, doubtful Sovereign would’ve written home about that. Any particular species managing to make it to technological advancement due to galactic society constantly being torn down over and over again would be purely inadvertent. Considering how many races humanity has rendered extinct or caused massive shift in behavior just by accident of existing it makes my statement a guarantee. Evolution can be changed in a hundred different ways and the larger the impact and alteration the larger the way evolution will change. And the colonization and development of a planet over thousands and thousands and thousands of years is a massive alteration in the evolutionary path of any being on it. And it could even alter the evolution of the race that colonizes it. As something like a high gravity world would alter a race to develop denser bone structures and muscle mass to deal with the higher gravity.
I mean it kind of is because new life is constantly blooming. New cultures with completely independent and unique world views and ideas show up time and time again after each harvest. No one race being exactly similar to the next. When you are looking at things from the galactic scale of organic life being allowed to still thrive after each harvest the events are very satisfactory.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Jul 10, 2020 17:15:21 GMT
How can it create an electromagnetic pulse strong enough to kill a Reaper but not effect the Shuttle Craft nor fry everyone in side of it? How could those same orbs be used to so utterly dominate the minds of the one colony when the Leviathans pulled back their control the people were not aware that months had passed? *Sigh* Did you even play the dlc? It does crash the shuttle when it enters the planet they are hiding on. And EMP's don't effect organic tissue, why the hell would it harm them? And the orbs allow them to do their dominate bioitc power thing, thus allowing them to fully control them. Just like Samara's daughter does to her victims.
So you are saying the Reapers are constructed the same as Alliance Shuttle Craft?
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jul 10, 2020 17:17:31 GMT
*Sigh* Did you even play the dlc? It does crash the shuttle when it enters the planet they are hiding on. And EMP's don't effect organic tissue, why the hell would it harm them? And the orbs allow them to do their dominate bioitc power thing, thus allowing them to fully control them. Just like Samara's daughter does to her victims.
So you are saying the Reapers are constructed the same as Alliance Shuttle Craft?
No. Does not mean that the Reapers can not be effected by an EMP pulse seeing as they are part machine.  |
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 10, 2020 17:18:49 GMT
I mean it kind of is because new life is constantly blooming. New cultures with completely independent and unique world views and ideas show up time and time again after each harvest. No one race being exactly similar to the next. When you are looking at things from the galactic scale of organic life being allowed to still thrive after each harvest the events are very satisfactory. Especially since in the Intelligence's mind the previous races still exist, just preserved as Reapers and data.
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Post by themikefest on Jul 10, 2020 18:36:44 GMT
I mean it kind of is because new life is constantly blooming. New cultures with completely independent and unique world views and ideas show up time and time again after each harvest. No one race being exactly similar to the next. When you are looking at things from the galactic scale of organic life being allowed to still thrive after each harvest the events are very satisfactory. Especially since in the Intelligence's mind the previous races still exist, just preserved as Reapers and data. Too bad Shepard couldn't ask thing about the data lost after Sovereign was destroyed and the derelict reaper. So much for that preservation crap.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 10, 2020 18:45:41 GMT
Especially since in the Intelligence's mind the previous races still exist, just preserved as Reapers and data. Too bad Shepard couldn't ask thing about the data lost after Sovereign was destroyed and the derelict reaper. So much for that preservation crap. Considering the Reapers are part of the Catalyst, I imagine it has all the data within it even if the Reaper body dies. Otherwise using Reapers to harvest wouldn’t be considered as a solution. |
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jul 10, 2020 19:24:15 GMT
Especially since in the Intelligence's mind the previous races still exist, just preserved as Reapers and data. Too bad Shepard couldn't ask thing about the data lost after Sovereign was destroyed and the derelict reaper. So much for that preservation crap. That is, IF that data actually exists. |
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Jul 12, 2020 13:04:24 GMT
So you are saying the Reapers are constructed the same as Alliance Shuttle Craft?
No. Does not mean that the Reapers can not be effected by an EMP pulse seeing as they are part machine. Then you know what a pulse is right? You can not direct an EMP the way you could direct plasma or a laser. Leviathan literally rips the Reaper out of the sky with their Psyker Biotic abilities killing it.
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Post by Kappa Neko on Jul 12, 2020 14:02:19 GMT
I didn't really follow this thread and the weird Warhammer debate...
But I felt like popping in to say that the reaper logic is REALLY not difficult to understand. And I'm amazed that so many people still think this entire twist makes no sense.
The ONLY thing that matters to the reapers is preventing synthetic life from wiping out organic life altogether. They don't care about individual organic races or individual lives. It's only about keeping organic life around in some way. If they have to kill 99% of organic life to ensure that 1% survive, that's still acceptable and within their logic. There is no contradiction here. There's IRONY here that the reapers are doing the very thing that they're trying to prevent in a sense. But it's still NOT a contradiction because the reapers do not kill ALL organic life. That's the point.
Whether or not that's clever writing is up for debate. But the reaper logic is very SIMPLE and easy to understand and LOGICAL in a very brutal utilitarian way. Their methods are so horrifying that no sane organic mind would ever come up with it. Because our own short existence rebels against the idea of being a casualty for the continued existence of life elsewhere. Humanity can't even take care of Earth for the sake of our children's future.
The only thing that's alien about the reaper logic is that they don't value individual lives or even individual races. They "preserve" their memory but that's no consolation when that race is dead now. Since there is no such thing as an individual to a synthetic, they don't even understand what the problem is. Why are you stupid organics upset we're going to liquify you? We're preserving your knowledge. Ain't that neat?!
Organics are very much wrapped up in their own self importance. And we struggle to think beyond our own existence. That doesn't make the reaper logic nonsense.
Of course the question remains if synthetics would really wipe out all organic life. Considering that the catalyst is an AI and NOT doing that, this kind of puts the PREMISE in question. So we should absolutely question if the cycle is really necessary. But the logic of the cycle itself is really simple. It gets the job done.
My two cents on a 8 year old discussion that still hasn't changed a bit. Ah the nostalgia...
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