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Post by Son of Dorn on Dec 3, 2020 21:18:31 GMT
That's one of the reasons I wish Andromeda had gone with something other than a fancy new drive for how they got there. The introduction of that new drive core in the lore kind of breaks the MET lore, like if they can create a drive core that allows long distance travel, then why the hell wasn't it mass produced? |
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Dec 3, 2020 22:27:46 GMT
I disagree. The Catalyst is what turns the ending from a boring cliche into the ending I actually rather enjoy. Your enjoyment of it or not is irrelevant to weather or not it was actually needed. It was not. Actually it is relevant. Because the fundamental fact is every single moment, event or chunk of the game was not needed and could have been done a dozen different ways then what was presented. The only thing that validates your arbitrary line in the sand in what you think is relevant or not is your enjoyment of it.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Dec 3, 2020 22:50:04 GMT
Because Reapers value life (in a fashion) and want it to be unique and different each time. Given the harvesting thing that sound contradictory but their logic is based on the fact they think races are better preserved in Reaper form rather then lost forever to the fires of war. The total loss of a unique culture and people is terrible so they harvest them and preserve their entire culture in Reaper form. While at the same time they prevent the conflict from starting in the first place resetting the galaxy back to square one to repeat the process.
I know the whole concept sounds contradictory but it is the same sort of contradictory logic behind allowing endangered animals to be hunted for sport. Killing an endangered animal seems contradictory. But the fact the game wardens target old, sick or anti social animals to prevent any real damage to the group. The high price of it also provides money to help pay people to protect them from poachers that kill indiscriminately. It also stimulates the local economy which incentives people to set aside land for animals and to protect them as poachers would simply cut into their income.
It is actually a very good analogy to look at to understand how and why the Reapers operate. They view the races of the galaxy the same way we in the real world would view a cow, elephant or dog. They want to protect the herd that is organic life so they cull the old, sick and anti social before they wipe out the rest.
Lol given what you just said (not arguing here) but if the reapers are persevering races why does the succeeding races (at the time) only know the Protean race? what good is that? it would be awesome to know about the other races but that won't happen it's taken from us, as time moves on we as a thinking races know that the past races (according to history) have moved on but there should be evidence of past races other than just the one (pre Jarvik).
Because the Reapers have a set limit on when they finally step in. At the time of the last cycle the Protheans had conquered and absorbed nearly all other advanced organic life into their empire. This is also a unique and different because the Prothean Empire was build and shaped by it's own experiences making it unique. Each of the different races would add their own effect on the empire as their culture would class and slowly be absorbed. Each culture was based entirely on their own specific developments on their planets.
50,000 years is more or less the time between harvests is more then human history. And in other cases like Ilos the Protheans build on top of the existing system the Inssurons made so they covered over the existing of a race before them.
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Post by kalreegar on Dec 3, 2020 23:55:09 GMT
We need to understand that the catalyst is an AI. He's not mad-man hitler o some sort of cruel person you can reason with. He's striclty bound to its starting axioms. The truths and purposes that Leviathans have given him. A chess program will be able to calculate the outcomes of every move, consider every possible solution and simulate billions of trillions of games, but if you have told it that the bishops moves only diagonally, he will alwyays, ever, move them diagonally. It will NEVER consider moving them horizontally. So, what are the starting axioms of the catalyst? Simple. The created will always rebel against their creators... and synthetics would destroy all organics. ALL. Tech singularity. This could be true, or this could be bullshit. Irrelevant. The leviathans thought it was true, and they transmitted this information to the catalyst. You will never convince him otherwise. And what is his purpose? I was created to bring balance. To be the Catalyst for peace between organics and synthetics.... I was first created to oversee the relations between synthetic and organic life. To establish a connection.... His main goal is the preservation of life. Remember: synthetics will destroy all organics So he was created to manage the relationships and balances between organic and synthetic. To prevent organic to create synthetics so powerful to kill them all. But this means that... as long as the organic does not begin to create synthetics (AI) its intervention is not required  So he is bound (by his own axioms, and by his own goals) to wait for the organic to evolve sufficiently and to create synthetics, and the conflict to begin. Only then he can intervene (because without organics + synthetics in conflict, he cannot perform his function as a "catalyst of peace", and to "oversee their relations!"). so he is forced, by his own internal logic, to wait for the galaxy civilization to develop enough to be able to create AI. Until that moment, he leaves them alone, lets them develop peacefully, and studies them. He continues to accumulate information, hoping to find the final solution (synthesis). When powerful AI are created and begins to rebel and become a real threat, when conflict finally arise, the reapers intervene, fast and lethal. I am ready to bet that the sovereing signal was sent shortly after the geth rebellion. and coincidentally, the reapers appeared in the prothean cycle just after the metacon war. The portals, the citadel trap, all programmed to make the harvest fast and efficient. And thus preserve organic life (one advanced civilization turned into a reaper + all organic life in the galaxy) The reapers and the cycles are a perfecty logical solution, and fully compatible with what we know about the purposes and the axioms (and the consequent limits) of the catalyst. |
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Post by Phantom on Dec 4, 2020 0:41:07 GMT
We need to understand that the catalyst is an AI. He's not mad-man hitler o some sort of cruel person you can reason with. He's striclty bound to its starting axioms. The truths and purposes that Leviathans have given him. A chess program will be able to calculate the outcomes of every move, consider every possible solution and simulate billions of trillions of games, but if you have told it that the bishops moves only diagonally, he will alwyays, ever, move them diagonally. It will NEVER consider moving them horizontally. So, what are the starting axioms of the catalyst? Simple. The created will always rebel against their creators... and synthetics would destroy all organics. ALL. Tech singularity. This could be true, or this could be bullshit. Irrelevant. The leviathans thought it was true, and they transmitted this information to the catalyst. You will never convince him otherwise. And what is his purpose? I was created to bring balance. To be the Catalyst for peace between organics and synthetics.... I was first created to oversee the relations between synthetic and organic life. To establish a connection.... His main goal is the preservation of life. Remember: synthetics will destroy all organics So he was created to manage the relationships and balances between organic and synthetic. To prevent organic to create synthetics so powerful to kill them all. But this means that... as long as the organic does not begin to create synthetics (AI) its intervention is not required So he is bound (by his own axioms, and by his own goals) to wait for the organic to evolve sufficiently and to create synthetics, and the conflict to begin. Only then he can intervene (because without organics + synthetics in conflict, he cannot perform his function as a "catalyst of peace", and to "oversee their relations!"). so he is forced, by his own internal logic, to wait for the galaxy civilization to develop enough to be able to create AI. Until that moment, he leaves them alone, lets them develop peacefully, and studies them. He continues to accumulate information, hoping to find the final solution (synthesis). When powerful AI are created and begins to rebel and become a real threat, when conflict finally arise, the reapers intervene, fast and lethal. I am ready to bet that the sovereing signal was sent shortly after the geth rebellion. and coincidentally, the reapers appeared in the prothean cycle just after the metacon war. The portals, the citadel trap, all programmed to make the harvest fast and efficient. And thus preserve organic life (one advanced civilization turned into a reaper + all organic life in the galaxy) The reapers and the cycles are a perfecty logical solution, and fully compatible with what we know about the purposes and the axioms (and the consequent limits) of the catalyst. Well your beginning paragraph describes the starchild more inline with a Mass Effect VI instead of a Mass Effect AI. A Mass Effect VI only moves within the boundaries; conversely Mass Effect A.I, will grow and learn from its basic programing. Good example of an A.I. is Edi.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 4, 2020 0:54:09 GMT
That's one of the reasons I wish Andromeda had gone with something other than a fancy new drive for how they got there. Like the Black Ark Theory, which was they were using retrofitted Collector ships or at least their drive cores? |
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Post by ahglock on Dec 4, 2020 2:13:58 GMT
That's one of the reasons I wish Andromeda had gone with something other than a fancy new drive for how they got there. Like the Black Ark Theory, which was they were using retrofitted Collector ships or at least their drive cores? I'd of preferred there was no way around it, that they got there through some kind of natural uncontrollable phenomenon like a wormhole. The other option would be rolling back to some of the old stories with asteroids. They propel multiple large asteroids with limited drives attached to it, when they need to drop out they do in relative sync with the asteroid and discharge into them, the asteroids discharge into each other, rinse repeat. Assume the asteroids get destroyed over time and they are calculating how much mass they need based on that rate of destruction to make the jump, presumably with a bit of a safety padding. So its something you can do but not practically easily repeat.
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Post by Spectr61 on Dec 4, 2020 19:51:22 GMT
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Post by cloud9 on Dec 10, 2020 19:44:39 GMT
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Post by cloud9 on Dec 10, 2020 19:45:56 GMT
My answer to the thread title "Everything wrong with Mass Effect 3 Redux" begins with - Those behind the ME3 debacle, prominently Hudson and Walters, are in charge. And the rushed development because EA rushed them to complete the game in 2 years. |
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Post by jadebaby88 on Dec 12, 2020 5:34:14 GMT
Your enjoyment of it or not is irrelevant to weather or not it was actually needed. It was not. Actually it is relevant. Because the fundamental fact is every single moment, event or chunk of the game was not needed and could have been done a dozen different ways then what was presented. The only thing that validates your arbitrary line in the sand in what you think is relevant or not is your enjoyment of it. Actually you're both wrong. Talking about it from a purely objective writing analysis perspective, something was needed to end the story. The real failure is that they tried to make it some M Night Shyamalan major plot twist at the 11th hour instead of just sticking to the already established thematic principles and morals of the story to that point. They chose the fact that you had to make tough choices through the trilogy and honed in on that, instead of honing in on an ending that is a result of all the other themes brought about through out the story. And there are many themes through the story that go so far as to even completely contradict the synthetic v organic endless war. Heck, even in the 3rd game itself you have the option to end the Quarian v Geth war. Only to be told that they can never co-exist! Furthermore, if you never played the original Mass Effect 3 ending, without the Extended Crap. Then you really don't get what type of ending they were actually going for. And despite my lashings of objective writing above. My personal opinion is that the only logical way for that ending to make any sense at all and to fit into the ME verse at all, is for it to be some sort of indoctrination ploy. If you ever frequented the original BSN boards you'd know about the theory. And now with the recent teaser trailer of the next Mass Effect with Liara dusting off an N7 chest plate (presumably Shepard's). I'm ever more hopeful that after all these years they finally found a way to retcon that bullshit starchild, or better yet, elaborate on it as to what the ending really meant. Hopefully this is why Casey Hudson left. But then it is EA.
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Post by jadebaby88 on Dec 12, 2020 5:36:03 GMT
Mark Darrah is sad but I'm leaping for joy about Hudson, anyone who says the type of shit he said about ME3 pre release. Only to get the clusterfuck we got... Yep, no qualms about his departure here.
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Post by Sondergaard on Dec 12, 2020 10:10:17 GMT
Actually it is relevant. Because the fundamental fact is every single moment, event or chunk of the game was not needed and could have been done a dozen different ways then what was presented. The only thing that validates your arbitrary line in the sand in what you think is relevant or not is your enjoyment of it. Actually you're both wrong. Talking about it from a purely objective writing analysis perspective, something was needed to end the story. The real failure is that they tried to make it some M Night Shyamalan major plot twist at the 11th hour instead of just sticking to the already established thematic principles and morals of the story to that point. They chose the fact that you had to make tough choices through the trilogy and honed in on that, instead of honing in on an ending that is a result of all the other themes brought about through out the story. And there are many themes through the story that go so far as to even completely contradict the synthetic v organic endless war. Heck, even in the 3rd game itself you have the option to end the Quarian v Geth war. Only to be told that they can never co-exist! Furthermore, if you never played the original Mass Effect 3 ending, without the Extended Crap. Then you really don't get what type of ending they were actually going for. And despite my lashings of objective writing above. My personal opinion is that the only logical way for that ending to make any sense at all and to fit into the ME verse at all, is for it to be some sort of indoctrination ploy. If you ever frequented the original BSN boards you'd know about the theory. And now with the recent teaser trailer of the next Mass Effect with Liara dusting off an N7 chest plate (presumably Shepard's). I'm ever more hopeful that after all these years they finally found a way to retcon that bullshit starchild, or better yet, elaborate on it as to what the ending really meant. Hopefully this is why Casey Hudson left. But then it is EA. I actually think the ending could have worked if we had been aware of the choices from the beginning. At the end of ME2 we find a data cache that outlines Starchild's options. Then we spend ME3 exploring those options and the effect they'd have. Then we make a choice. Not perfect but then the ending would have made sense in the context of the story we'd just played. We'd still have the 'no sequel' problem but if the writing had been good enough I think most would have been happy to let ME rest. As it is it's just a tacked on 'Hail Mary' that makes no narrative sense and leaves almost everyone dissatisfied, hence this forum still going strong 8 years later. |
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Post by jadebaby88 on Dec 12, 2020 10:20:16 GMT
Actually you're both wrong. Talking about it from a purely objective writing analysis perspective, something was needed to end the story. The real failure is that they tried to make it some M Night Shyamalan major plot twist at the 11th hour instead of just sticking to the already established thematic principles and morals of the story to that point. They chose the fact that you had to make tough choices through the trilogy and honed in on that, instead of honing in on an ending that is a result of all the other themes brought about through out the story. And there are many themes through the story that go so far as to even completely contradict the synthetic v organic endless war. Heck, even in the 3rd game itself you have the option to end the Quarian v Geth war. Only to be told that they can never co-exist! Furthermore, if you never played the original Mass Effect 3 ending, without the Extended Crap. Then you really don't get what type of ending they were actually going for. And despite my lashings of objective writing above. My personal opinion is that the only logical way for that ending to make any sense at all and to fit into the ME verse at all, is for it to be some sort of indoctrination ploy. If you ever frequented the original BSN boards you'd know about the theory. And now with the recent teaser trailer of the next Mass Effect with Liara dusting off an N7 chest plate (presumably Shepard's). I'm ever more hopeful that after all these years they finally found a way to retcon that bullshit starchild, or better yet, elaborate on it as to what the ending really meant. Hopefully this is why Casey Hudson left. But then it is EA. I actually think the ending could have worked if we had been aware of the choices from the beginning. At the end of ME2 we find a data cache that outlines Starchild's options. Then we spend ME3 exploring those options and the effect they'd have. Then we make a choice. Not perfect but then the ending would have made sense in the context of the story we'd just played. We'd still have the 'no sequel' problem but if the writing had been good enough I think most would have been happy to let ME rest. As it is it's just a tacked on 'Hail Mary' that makes no narrative sense and leaves almost everyone dissatisfied, hence this forum still going strong 8 years later. Yea, I think if they had of had another year at the very least, maybe just maybe, they could have fleshed it out. But I think no matter how much they explained it... Trying to justify, whether logically or emotionally that what the Reapers were doing (at least in there eyes) was inherently flawed. As soon as Sovereign made that epic as badass bad guy speech in ME1 about his existence being "beyond our comprehension" everything that they tried to do afterwards was going to let us down. Unless of course they never even explained the Reapers origin and they were just bad for the sake of their own existence, like they fed of us for their own survival (while technically still being true).
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Post by Sondergaard on Dec 12, 2020 10:28:01 GMT
I actually think the ending could have worked if we had been aware of the choices from the beginning. At the end of ME2 we find a data cache that outlines Starchild's options. Then we spend ME3 exploring those options and the effect they'd have. Then we make a choice. Not perfect but then the ending would have made sense in the context of the story we'd just played. We'd still have the 'no sequel' problem but if the writing had been good enough I think most would have been happy to let ME rest. As it is it's just a tacked on 'Hail Mary' that makes no narrative sense and leaves almost everyone dissatisfied, hence this forum still going strong 8 years later. Yea, I think if they had of had another year at the very least, maybe just maybe, they could have fleshed it out. But I think no matter how much they explained it... Trying to justify, whether logically or emotionally that what the Reapers were doing (at least in there eyes) was inherently flawed. As soon as Sovereign made that epic as badass bad guy speech in ME1 about his existence being "beyond our comprehension" everything that they tried to do afterwards was going to let us down. Unless of course they never even explained the Reapers origin and they were just bad for the sake of their own existence, like they fed of us for their own survival (while technically still being true). Yeah, maybe you're right. No amount of good writing could have given everyone what they wanted. But it could have made it more palatable. Still, hopefully they've seen the light and dont write themselves into a corner again. |
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Post by jadebaby88 on Dec 12, 2020 10:43:47 GMT
Yea, I think if they had of had another year at the very least, maybe just maybe, they could have fleshed it out. But I think no matter how much they explained it... Trying to justify, whether logically or emotionally that what the Reapers were doing (at least in there eyes) was inherently flawed. As soon as Sovereign made that epic as badass bad guy speech in ME1 about his existence being "beyond our comprehension" everything that they tried to do afterwards was going to let us down. Unless of course they never even explained the Reapers origin and they were just bad for the sake of their own existence, like they fed of us for their own survival (while technically still being true). Yeah, maybe you're right. No amount of good writing could have given everyone what they wanted. But it could have made it more palatable. Still, hopefully they've seen the light and dont write themselves into a corner again. Ultimately I think it will be EA who decides how well this continuation goes... If past experiences are to dictate I am very wary. However the fact is that the current state of Mass Effect is that the Milky Way galaxy, and everyone we knew, is dead. And despite EA being in control not giving me the best outlook... Nothing can be worse than everything being dead.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Dec 12, 2020 14:44:59 GMT
Actually it is relevant. Because the fundamental fact is every single moment, event or chunk of the game was not needed and could have been done a dozen different ways then what was presented. The only thing that validates your arbitrary line in the sand in what you think is relevant or not is your enjoyment of it. Actually you're both wrong. Talking about it from a purely objective writing analysis perspective, something was needed to end the story. The real failure is that they tried to make it some M Night Shyamalan major plot twist at the 11th hour instead of just sticking to the already established thematic principles and morals of the story to that point. They chose the fact that you had to make tough choices through the trilogy and honed in on that, instead of honing in on an ending that is a result of all the other themes brought about through out the story. And there are many themes through the story that go so far as to even completely contradict the synthetic v organic endless war. Heck, even in the 3rd game itself you have the option to end the Quarian v Geth war. Only to be told that they can never co-exist! Furthermore, if you never played the original Mass Effect 3 ending, without the Extended Crap. Then you really don't get what type of ending they were actually going for. And despite my lashings of objective writing above. My personal opinion is that the only logical way for that ending to make any sense at all and to fit into the ME verse at all, is for it to be some sort of indoctrination ploy. If you ever frequented the original BSN boards you'd know about the theory. And now with the recent teaser trailer of the next Mass Effect with Liara dusting off an N7 chest plate (presumably Shepard's). I'm ever more hopeful that after all these years they finally found a way to retcon that bullshit starchild, or better yet, elaborate on it as to what the ending really meant. Hopefully this is why Casey Hudson left. But then it is EA.
There is no purely objective writing for you to argue against. From the start of the game there is a theme of the Reapers existing and behaving the way they do for a reason that we don't know about. There is no M. Night plot twist if you paid attention to that plot thread and how everything else springs from it. The theme of conflict between Synthetic and Organic life is always a major theme of the series with ME1 making it out right skynet turns on the creators and hates every organic life.
6 months of time during a united fight against the Reapers is not enough time to validate "they can get along forever" I keep seeing this statement repeated over and over again and it ignores reality. Even in the in game universe the Krogan and Salarians/Asari were once best buddies but over time cracks appeared and that lead to the Krogan Rebellion. Within the game's own world building they state that short term time frames is not indicative of long term patterns.
The fact is the Reapers harvest all life every 50,000 years because they are fixing a problem between organic and synthetic life. The entire conflict with them arises from the fact they are 100% certain of their solution and NO ONE EVER is capable of understanding or accepting their entire species death is needed to benefit the galaxy. That is counter to the very survival instincts that allowed us to evolve. So we fight and the Reapers don't bother to explain because explaining that they have to harvest them to keep the galaxy from being over ran with synthetic life simply wouldn't be understood at all. Rather like explaining to a child why they need to clean their room. From that we fight as countless others have fought and the Reapers see as simply what is expected. And that is were the ending comes into play by building the Crucible and actually docking it on the Citadel they altered the patterns enough for the Reaper Collective intelligence to see that the Reaper solution is doomed to fail. That the variables have been altered and so a new solution must be found and that gives you the choice.
I've found that people who like to use the term "objectively" cherry pick the hell out of what details they want and what details they don't want. Like the fact the Quarians have to be held at literal gun point and threatened with Genocide to get them to stand down. That there can be no truce if the Quarians are not held at gun point and threatened with Genocide. You forget the only reason the Quarians survived the Morning War was because they left though the Mass Relay Network to Council aligned space and used the developed infrastructure to buy, trade, barter and work for supplies to keep the Flotilla running. However the Reapers are the ones that build the Relays Network so no Reapers means no Relays which means the races of the galaxy are not as wide spread nor is there as well developed infrastructure. And the Quarians are fairly far away from the likes of Turians and Asari. Meaning their ships would be sent out into the void to spend years or decades flying though space with no support and no infrastructure to utilize. And that is assuming they already mastered mass effect technology. However technology is not like an rpg skill tree so it would be entirly possible that all they would have is sub light drives which would ensure they die out traveling from star to star. Or equally possible they do not have advanced space travel yet and so can not leave the planet and are wiped out in the Morning War.
These facts and possibilities are important because actions have consequences and they ripple out from there. The Reapers build the Relay Network and a consequence of that is that the likes of the Protheans and Quarians were saved from synthetic life attacking them. One by uniting all organic life at gun point to fight against it. Allowing the rapid deployment of their ever increasing empire across the galaxy. And the other to flee into the arms of several well armed and guarded organic races to resupply and keep their ships working.
I have seen the original endings. They very much so operate on a "fill in the blanks yourself" system which is not inherently bad because everyone has their own ideas of what happened and what would happen. In fact it seems like 90% of the anger directed towards the ending is simply because the ending did not match what ideas people had in their own heads. In fact your entire anger doesn't seem to be directed towards the quality of writing as you cherry pick details left and right. But rather that the ending didn't match up to the ideas of what you wanted to happen in your own head.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Dec 12, 2020 14:46:31 GMT
There is no purely objective writing for you to argue against I guess War and Peace is just 1,215 pages of shit, then. |
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Dec 12, 2020 15:46:13 GMT
There is no purely objective writing for you to argue against I guess War and Peace is just 1,215 pages of shit, then. Depending on the person reading it yes it is.
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Post by cloud9 on Dec 12, 2020 16:07:04 GMT
Mark Darrah is sad but I'm leaping for joy about Hudson, anyone who says the type of shit he said about ME3 pre release. Only to get the clusterfuck we got... Yep, no qualms about his departure here. May I ask why? |
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Post by SirSourpuss on Dec 12, 2020 16:20:00 GMT
Depending on the person reading it yes it is. I disagree. I may not like it, on a personal level, but I can concede that it is a great piece of writing. It just doesn't resonate with me. If someone is at fault here, that's me. |
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Dec 12, 2020 17:12:31 GMT
Depending on the person reading it yes it is. I disagree. I may not like it, on a personal level, but I can concede that it is a great piece of writing. It just doesn't resonate with me. If someone is at fault here, that's me. And that is pretty much proof of the lack of objectivity. The closest thing to objectivity that you can get is spelling grammar and that it tells a story. None of which apply to any of the criticisms around ME3's ending.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Dec 12, 2020 17:26:33 GMT
And that is pretty much proof of the lack of objectivity I think it proves the exact opposite. I can recognize good writing when I see it, but it doesn't mean that I like the book. I can dislike "Ode to spring", but it is an amazing piece of music. That is irrefutable. |
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Dec 12, 2020 18:02:26 GMT
And that is pretty much proof of the lack of objectivity I think it proves the exact opposite. I can recognize good writing when I see it, but it doesn't mean that I like the book. I can dislike "Ode to spring", but it is an amazing piece of music. That is irrefutable. Why is it an amazing piece of music? Just because a bunch of people says something is something doesn't make an opinion into a fact. This is were you seem to struggle with the concept. No matter how long an opinion is held nor how popular it is that doesn't make it a fact nor does it make it objectively true. By the logic of ode to spring being objectively good music means a 5 year old banging on pots and pans is objectively good music as well.
Things that are objective are not based on opinions but on hard emotionless data. For example fire is hot is objectively true because if you stick your hand in a fire you will burn your hand. Concrete is better at compressive force then elastic forces as concrete can take over 10,000 psi compressive force before breaking. But if stretched it will crumble with ease. These are objective facts because they can be tested over and over and over again by anyone and come to the same conclusion.
Mean while a piece of music can be heard by 100 people and you will end up with 100 different opinions. There might be various degrees of over lap but each opinion will still be unique to the individual based on their individual opinions.
But to put your money were your mouth is so to speak go into detail about how objectively good or bad this piece of music is. Give me lots of detail and reasons.
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sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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Post by SirSourpuss on Dec 12, 2020 19:13:21 GMT
gothpunkboy89Listen, as much as I love Ke$ha's hit single "Tik-Tok", it doesn't hold a candle to "Ode to Spring". And a 5 year old banging on pots and pans is objectively not good music. At least, no piece that I have ever heard played that way measured up. You are starting to sound like a contrarian, at this point.
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