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Post by cloud9 on Apr 22, 2020 19:33:57 GMT
Again, the writers didn't confirmed those details how Shepard's body survived from crashing on outer space. And it's highly unlikely that the armor is durable enough to protect the body from disintegration, and the shields didn't protect the body from being "meat and tubes". So, Shepard's death is very poorly written and it just use for shock value. The writers don't confirm the details of most of the space magic they use. You say its highly unlikely, I think its highly unlikely he took as much damage as was portrayed in the story. Its inconsistent with what the armor routinely deals with. But, they have a lot of inconsistencies with their armor/shields. And yes, it was poorly done and just for shock value. I don't think anyone disagrees with that general point. This is exactly why I have a problem with Mass Effect 2 in the first place.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Apr 22, 2020 21:50:31 GMT
The Codex states very plainly that 4 Dreadnaughts can destroy a Reaper Capital ship, because it takes 4 of them firing to overwhelm the shields, and that is with it's typical armament. If you account for the up-scaled version of Thanix Cannons that Turians made for Dreadnaughts, you can probably achieve the task with 3. If every single shipyard and factory in the galaxy spent those 2 years and 6 months doing nothing but churning out Dreadnaughts, Thanix Guns, Warp Bombs and Fission Weapons, you win. Period. The Miracle proves you can win. I'm so sick of this "it's impossible" horse shit.
The turian and krogan counterattack on Palaven combined deception, courage, and tenacity. First, the turians leaked a false battle plan that drew on the same tactics they used at beginning of the assault on Palaven. Then the dreadnought Indomitable faked a problem with its drive core, coming out of FTL near Palaven's moon, Menae. Three other dreadnoughts and their attendant fleets deployed to assist Indomitable, a tempting target that drew the Reaper capital ships away from Palaven. Turian troop transports then entered Palaven's atmosphere to release shuttles, gliders, and individual soldier capsules.
The Reapers did not understand the seriousness of the threat at first--those that detected the landing crafts sent husks and Collector swarms to intercept them, but little more. This allowed krogan commandos to link up with Palaven's resistance and hand off their payloads--warp bombs and fission weapons.
In simultaneous strikes across the globe, Reaper ships began to explode. Turian resistance members had managed to smuggle the bombs inside when the Reaper processing ships, troop transports, and even destroyers and capital ships had opened their structures to indoctrinated turian leaders.
Large swaths of territory fell back into turian and krogan control. News of the victory gave a much-needed boost to the morale of the turian resistance and the galactic public.
But the action was not without sacrifice. Turian insurgents gave their lives to ensure the explosives detonated, and the processing centers they destroyed were full of civilians who died just as surely as if they had been harvested. Of the dead, General Minin Resvirix said, "Whatever they were in life, their deaths had no equal. They are worthy of joining the spirit of Palaven itself."
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 22, 2020 23:23:50 GMT
Let's not be silly about this. The "it's impossible" statement is simply true for the navies the MEU actually had, not the navies it theoretically might have had.
As for the navies it might have had, how many dreadnoughts the MEU could have constructed in the available time is an open question. We wouldn't be able to build many more aircraft carriers in 2-1/2 years from now than we are already planning to; it's physically impossible, not least because we don't have enough people with the right skills. MEU manufacturing technology is probably more flexible than ours. How much more so? How fast can they churn out a dreadnought, or smaller somethings which can fight a dreadnought? We don't know, and it doesn't matter. Reaper numbers were at Bio's discretion. The number of Reapers which show up is however many the plot requires.
And being able to inflict a tactical reverse on the Reapers doesn't prove a damn thing, and you know it. The Japanese were able to sink major US warships up until the very last day of the war, but they never had the capability to defeat the US Navy and industrial base outright.
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Post by cloud9 on Apr 22, 2020 23:28:13 GMT
The Codex states very plainly that 4 Dreadnaughts can destroy a Reaper Capital ship, because it takes 4 of them firing to overwhelm the shields, and that is with it's typical armament. If you account for the up-scaled version of Thanix Cannons that Turians made for Dreadnaughts, you can probably achieve the task with 3. If every single shipyard and factory in the galaxy spent those 2 years and 6 months doing nothing but churning out Dreadnaughts, Thanix Guns, Warp Bombs and Fission Weapons, you win. Period. The Miracle proves you can win. I'm so sick of this "it's impossible" horse shit. The turian and krogan counterattack on Palaven combined deception, courage, and tenacity. First, the turians leaked a false battle plan that drew on the same tactics they used at beginning of the assault on Palaven. Then the dreadnought Indomitable faked a problem with its drive core, coming out of FTL near Palaven's moon, Menae. Three other dreadnoughts and their attendant fleets deployed to assist Indomitable, a tempting target that drew the Reaper capital ships away from Palaven. Turian troop transports then entered Palaven's atmosphere to release shuttles, gliders, and individual soldier capsules.
The Reapers did not understand the seriousness of the threat at first--those that detected the landing crafts sent husks and Collector swarms to intercept them, but little more. This allowed krogan commandos to link up with Palaven's resistance and hand off their payloads--warp bombs and fission weapons.
In simultaneous strikes across the globe, Reaper ships began to explode. Turian resistance members had managed to smuggle the bombs inside when the Reaper processing ships, troop transports, and even destroyers and capital ships had opened their structures to indoctrinated turian leaders.
Large swaths of territory fell back into turian and krogan control. News of the victory gave a much-needed boost to the morale of the turian resistance and the galactic public.
But the action was not without sacrifice. Turian insurgents gave their lives to ensure the explosives detonated, and the processing centers they destroyed were full of civilians who died just as surely as if they had been harvested. Of the dead, General Minin Resvirix said, "Whatever they were in life, their deaths had no equal. They are worthy of joining the spirit of Palaven itself."🎉🎉✨✨🎆🎇🎉🎉🎆🎆🎇
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 22, 2020 23:34:50 GMT
Also note that as Citadel fleet strength increases relative to the Reapers, things get worse for the organics, not better. If the Reapers are having trouble taking on the might of the galaxy, they can just start destroying planets rather than getting into battles. Instead of harvesting Earth over a period of ten years, they could have burned the life from it in ten minutes. There's no real defense against this with the established techs of the MEU.
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Post by cloud9 on Apr 22, 2020 23:35:09 GMT
Let's not be silly about this. The "it's impossible" statement is simply true for the navies the MEU actually had, not the navies it theoretically might have had. As for the navies it might have had, how many dreadnoughts the MEU could have constructed in the available time is an open question. We wouldn't be able to build many more aircraft carriers in 2-1/2 years from now than we are already planning to; it's physically impossible, not least because we don't have enough people with the right skills. MEU manufacturing technology is probably more flexible than ours. How much more so? How fast can they churn out a dreadnought, or smaller somethings which can fight a dreadnought? We don't know, and it doesn't matter. Reaper numbers were at Bio's discretion. The number of Reapers which show up is however many the plot requires. And being able to inflict a tactical reverse on the Reapers doesn't prove a damn thing, and you know it. The Japanese were able to sink major US warships up until the very last day of the war, but they never had the capability to defeat the US Navy and industrial base outright. That's just another poor excuse to justify the inconsistencies of fighting and preparing for the Reapers. If they could mass produce Thanix Cannons from the debris from Sovereign to the Turian fleet, then they could mass produce dreadnaughts with effective weapons to destroy Reaper Ships. Now, I can understand that they have indoctrinated forces to sabotage efforts to prevent Galactic civilizations to defeat the Reapers with advanced weapons, ships, and battle tactics to conventionally defeat the Reapers.
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 22, 2020 23:39:43 GMT
That is not an argument. How long does it take to build a dreadnought in the MEU? If it takes years, as warships currently do, matching Reaper numbers is hopeless in the existing timeframe.
Edit: just to be clear, of course they should have tried to do this anyway, since they didn't know how fast the Reapers were going to show up or how may there were; we saw the final ME2 cutscene, but nobody else did.
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Post by cloud9 on Apr 22, 2020 23:56:17 GMT
That is not an argument. How long does it take to build a dreadnought in the MEU? If it takes years, as warships currently do, matching Reaper numbers is hopeless in the existing timeframe. Edit: just to be clear, of course they should have tried to do this anyway, since they didn't know how fast the Reapers were going to show up or how may there were; we saw the final ME2 cutscene, but nobody else did. It's the Council, the Alliance, and other governments denied and ignore the arrival of the Reaper invasion that hindered mass production of weapons and ships. Not lack of skills and technology. And they have advanced technology to build machines to mass produce weapons and ships. You just coming up with another poor excuse why they can't prepare for the Reapers.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Apr 23, 2020 0:10:02 GMT
Let's not be silly about this. The "it's impossible" statement is simply true for the navies the MEU actually had, not the navies it theoretically might have had. As for the navies it might have had, how many dreadnoughts the MEU could have constructed in the available time is an open question. We wouldn't be able to build many more aircraft carriers in 2-1/2 years from now than we are already planning to; it's physically impossible, not least because we don't have enough people with the right skills. MEU manufacturing technology is probably more flexible than ours. How much more so? How fast can they churn out a dreadnought, or smaller somethings which can fight a dreadnought? We don't know, and it doesn't matter. Reaper numbers were at Bio's discretion. The number of Reapers which show up is however many the plot requires. And being able to inflict a tactical reverse on the Reapers doesn't prove a damn thing, and you know it. The Japanese were able to sink major US warships up until the very last day of the war, but they never had the capability to defeat the US Navy and industrial base outright.The Reapers have no industrial base, They can't replace lost ships until we're defeated. More importantly, my main point here, is the only reason conventional victory is so "impossible", is because Bioware wanted it to be impossible. They made sure every Government and race in the galaxy acted in the dumbest, most unrealistic manner possible. Subjecting themselves to numerous methods of self sabotage so that the only way to avoid getting harvested is an ass-pull narrative device. If the behaviors of people and governments were handled in a more consistent, competent manner then it's a lot harder to sell your audience on your idea that you need space magic to win. Likewise, if you handle the people and governments of the galaxy with respect and competence, and still show through action that victory is impossible without space magic, then your audience can't have arguments like this, because then we would all have to agree that there was truly no other alternative. But then again, given how divided the writers room was about Star Brat and his 3 dumb choices (according to "totally not patrick weekes") I suspect the writers themselves were not on the same page in terms of victory being "impossible".
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Post by therevanchist25 on Apr 23, 2020 0:11:29 GMT
Also note that as Citadel fleet strength increases relative to the Reapers, things get worse for the organics, not better. If the Reapers are having trouble taking on the might of the galaxy, they can just start destroying planets rather than getting into battles. Instead of harvesting Earth over a period of ten years, they could have burned the life from it in ten minutes. There's no real defense against this with the established techs of the MEU. That defeats their programmed purpose of preserving life through harvest. They can't harvest piles of Ash. This is not an action they are capable of making.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 23, 2020 0:16:23 GMT
Considering the Geth are more advanced, have no limitations when it comes to work like need of food/sleep/etc, and knew of the Reapers but could only build one Dreadnought in half a year is all the proof you need that the galaxy wouldn’t have been able to build enough to face them.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Apr 23, 2020 0:22:51 GMT
Considering the Geth are more advanced, have no limitations when it comes to work like need of food/sleep/etc, and knew of the Reapers but could only build one Dreadnought in half a year is all the proof you need that the galaxy wouldn’t have been able to build enough to face them. But did the Geth actually care about the Reapers? The Reapers butcher organic beings, and surely the experience of the Heretics would give them the impression they don't need to worry about the "Old Machines" at all. Likewise, we've no idea how long it actually took them to build that, or if it was in response to Reapers, or fear of the Quarians returning.
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Post by themikefest on Apr 23, 2020 0:50:59 GMT
The Codex states very plainly that 4 Dreadnaughts can destroy a Reaper Capital ship, because it takes 4 of them firing to overwhelm the shields, and that is with it's typical armament. If you account for the up-scaled version of Thanix Cannons that Turians made for Dreadnaughts, you can probably achieve the task with 3. If every single shipyard and factory in the galaxy spent those 2 years and 6 months doing nothing but churning out Dreadnaughts, Thanix Guns, Warp Bombs and Fission Weapons, you win. Period. How long does it take to build a dreadnought? It took 2 years to build the SR2, a ship that is a lot smaller than a dreadnought. Does it? If anything, it slowed the harvest until the reapers could bring in reinforcements. The other thing is those ships were destroyed from the inside. This is what you posted that came from codex masseffect.fandom.com/wiki/Codex/The_Reaper_WarIn simultaneous strikes across the globe, Reaper ships began to explode. Turian resistance members had managed to smuggle the bombs inside when the Reaper processing ships, troop transports, and even destroyers and capital ships had opened their structures to indoctrinated turian leaders. Large swaths of territory fell back into turian and krogan control.
There's no way to know how many were destroyed. I doubt the reapers would let that happen again. Had all the reapers went to that system instead of spreading themselves all over the galaxy, I doubt the miracle of palaven would have happened. Why? They would have posted a few reapers at the relay preventing any ship from leaving or entering. Meaning there would not be any krogan to help.
I do agree that with a thannix it would reduce the number of shots from 4 to 3, but how long would that last? When ME3 starts, I guess that the reapers numbers are about 53 000 not counting processing ships and transport ships. Would the galaxy still have a chance if all dreadnoughts have the thannix weapon? No because it would take 3 of them to destroy one capital ship whereas a reaper only needs one shot.
Instead of using the Miracle, I would have used the Battle of Palaven
When Taetrus fell, the turians knew little about the Reapers except that they wanted to enrage the turians. Staying calm, the turians massed in force around Palaven, their homeworld. Fleet Admiral Irix Coronati, in what became known as the "Fifteen-Minute Plan," stationed only two carriers, Undaunted and Resolute, near the system's relay. When the Reaper fleet emerged, the carriers launched swarms of unmanned fighters and spy drones. These were quickly destroyed, but the drones transmitted vital data on the Reapers' effective range, fleet composition, and exact location. The turians' other ships then deployed to defend the system in earnest.
Knowing that the Reapers' weapons had a longer effective range than any of his own, Coronati made a short, daring FTL jump--landing his dreadnoughts in the middle of the Reaper fleet. The dreadnoughts then turned to line up their main guns on the Reapers, which also needed to turn to fire on the turians. This ploy used the Reapers' size against them--because they could turn faster, the turian dreadnoughts locked targets first, and their concentrated firepower downed several Reaper capital ships.
The Reapers countered instantly. Their destroyers performed a jump of their own to the skies above Palaven, beginning orbital strikes on turian cities. The turians, forced to defend the planet, found themselves in a pitched battle far from the relay, from which emerged a seemingly endless line of Reaper ships. After massive casualties, Coronati ordered retreat.
The turians insist that Palaven is not lost--the battle has merely moved to the ground. Reaper troop transports have dumped hordes of husks to capture Palaven's inhabitants, but met with little success. Reaper capital ships are destroying city after city. But much of the turian fleet is still operable, and the citizenry is heavily armed. The turians refuse to be intimidated. The only problem I have with what the turians did is defend their planet instead of firing at the reapers that were firing down on the cities.
No matter what, the reapers win by numbers. The only reason why the galaxy had a chance to defeat them is because Bioware had to make them stupid.
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Post by Polka Dot on Apr 23, 2020 1:03:03 GMT
Let's not be silly about this. The "it's impossible" statement is simply true for the navies the MEU actually had, not the navies it theoretically might have had. As for the navies it might have had, how many dreadnoughts the MEU could have constructed in the available time is an open question. We wouldn't be able to build many more aircraft carriers in 2-1/2 years from now than we are already planning to; it's physically impossible, not least because we don't have enough people with the right skills. MEU manufacturing technology is probably more flexible than ours. How much more so? How fast can they churn out a dreadnought, or smaller somethings which can fight a dreadnought? We don't know, and it doesn't matter. Reaper numbers were at Bio's discretion. The number of Reapers which show up is however many the plot requires. And being able to inflict a tactical reverse on the Reapers doesn't prove a damn thing, and you know it. The Japanese were able to sink major US warships up until the very last day of the war, but they never had the capability to defeat the US Navy and industrial base outright. Right. I would also note that the Alliance hadn't yet replaced the vessels lost fighting Sovereign, so were already operating at reduced strength. Dreadnoughts have to be constructed at space stations, which in and of itself would limit production capacity - as would the Treaty of Farixen.
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 23, 2020 1:04:34 GMT
That is not an argument. How long does it take to build a dreadnought in the MEU? If it takes years, as warships currently do, matching Reaper numbers is hopeless in the existing timeframe. Edit: just to be clear, of course they should have tried to do this anyway, since they didn't know how fast the Reapers were going to show up or how may there were; we saw the final ME2 cutscene, but nobody else did. It's the Council, the Alliance, and other governments denied and ignore the arrival of the Reaper invasion that hindered mass production of weapons and ships. Not lack of skills and technology. And they have advanced technology to build machines to mass produce weapons and ships. You just coming up with another poor excuse why they can't prepare for the Reapers. Could they have mass produced enough weapons in time? There's no evidence of that, except that you want it to have been true. Building warships in the MEU is expensive and time-consuming , as Polka Dot notes above. (A Treaty of Farixen only makes sense if you can't pump dozens more dreadnoughts out in a couple of months.) But, again, this doesn't matter. Like I said earlier, Reaper numbers are at Bio's discretion. However many ships the MEU built or didn't build, the Reapers would have had enough to defeat them handily if Bioware wanted them to have them. The DM always has more points than you.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Apr 23, 2020 4:50:04 GMT
Let's not be silly about this. The "it's impossible" statement is simply true for the navies the MEU actually had, not the navies it theoretically might have had. As for the navies it might have had, how many dreadnoughts the MEU could have constructed in the available time is an open question. We wouldn't be able to build many more aircraft carriers in 2-1/2 years from now than we are already planning to; it's physically impossible, not least because we don't have enough people with the right skills. MEU manufacturing technology is probably more flexible than ours. How much more so? How fast can they churn out a dreadnought, or smaller somethings which can fight a dreadnought? We don't know, and it doesn't matter. Reaper numbers were at Bio's discretion. The number of Reapers which show up is however many the plot requires. And being able to inflict a tactical reverse on the Reapers doesn't prove a damn thing, and you know it. The Japanese were able to sink major US warships up until the very last day of the war, but they never had the capability to defeat the US Navy and industrial base outright. Right. I would also note that the Alliance hadn't yet replaced the vessels lost fighting Sovereign, so were already operating at reduced strength. Dreadnoughts have to be constructed at space stations, which in and of itself would limit production capacity - as would the Treaty of Farixen. Pretty sure in a situation where the government isn't written as being totally brainless, this treaty would be either suspended or dissolved in the wake of obvious danger.
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Post by cloud9 on Apr 23, 2020 5:18:20 GMT
It's the Council, the Alliance, and other governments denied and ignore the arrival of the Reaper invasion that hindered mass production of weapons and ships. Not lack of skills and technology. And they have advanced technology to build machines to mass produce weapons and ships. You just coming up with another poor excuse why they can't prepare for the Reapers. Could they have mass produced enough weapons in time? There's no evidence of that, except that you want it to have been true. Building warships in the MEU is expensive and time-consuming , as Polka Dot notes above. (A Treaty of Farixen only makes sense if you can't pump dozens more dreadnoughts out in a couple of months.) But, again, this doesn't matter. Like I said earlier, Reaper numbers are at Bio's discretion. However many ships the MEU built or didn't build, the Reapers would have had enough to defeat them handily if Bioware wanted them to have them. The DM always has more points than you. They build the crucible in a matter of weeks, and you're telling me that they could not mass produce ships and weapons in a short period of time? And if they were competent to begin with, they would pull all of their resources to build effective ships with advanced weaponry to effectively fight against the Reapers. As I said once again, the governments are denying the threat of the arrival of the Reapers. If they were, then they would take the threat very seriously, and mass produce effective weapons and ships to prepare for the Reapers.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 23, 2020 6:32:23 GMT
Could they have mass produced enough weapons in time? There's no evidence of that, except that you want it to have been true. Building warships in the MEU is expensive and time-consuming , as Polka Dot notes above. (A Treaty of Farixen only makes sense if you can't pump dozens more dreadnoughts out in a couple of months.) But, again, this doesn't matter. Like I said earlier, Reaper numbers are at Bio's discretion. However many ships the MEU built or didn't build, the Reapers would have had enough to defeat them handily if Bioware wanted them to have them. The DM always has more points than you. They build the crucible in a matter of weeks, and you're telling me that they could not mass produce ships and weapons in a short period of time? And if they were competent to begin with, they would pull all of their resources to build effective ships with advanced weaponry to effectively fight against the Reapers. As I said once again, the governments are denying the threat of the arrival of the Reapers. If they were, then they would take the threat very seriously, and mass produce effective weapons and ships to prepare for the Reapers. The Crucible was built over several months, not weeks. At least get the basic facts right before you start complaining. And again, the governments were taking it seriously. Citadel DLC showed them denying the Reapers was just a cover to prevent galactic panic.
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Post by jadebaby88 on Apr 23, 2020 10:23:05 GMT
If you have never heard of MrBTongue I highly recommend checking out his channel below. It's my one-stop shop to help me sleep at night after ME3 Ending. I hate the argument that it's because the ending was "too sad". I undermines the entire thematically jarring and lore breaking ending. www.youtube.com/channel/UCI3GAJaOTL1BoipG41OmfyA
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Post by themikefest on Apr 23, 2020 11:53:20 GMT
They build the crucible in a matter of weeks, When talking with Tali at the forward operating base, Shepard says a few months. I will use 3 to represent a few. So yes, it took weeks, about 12 weeks to build the giant microphone. When talking with Hackett, after the coup, he says once decoded the plans are easily translated. How many should they build? No one knows how large a force the reapers have. The other thing is no knows when the reapers will show up. Lets say you do build x number of ships, how would you have them posted in the galaxy to deal with the reapers. No one knows where they will first show up. How do you know the advanced weaponry you have will make a difference? I don't blame the governments since there is little to no information provided that would cause them to go into panic mode to start building ships. What answers would you give your government when they ask how many reapers are there? When will they show up? What's the best way to defend ourselves against them? Why are they doing what you say they're doing? Of course if Shepard recorded the conversation with Sovereign and Virgil, it would be a start. At least it would give the council something to think about. Another way is ask the asari councilor if she's willing to do the mind meld thing with Shepard to see the visions herself. And what I said in an earlier post is a missed opportunity in ME2 with the derelict reaper. Have the SR2 fly around the reaper scanning it looking for weak points especially looking at the damage it suffered, and while Shepard is inside the reaper, scan to give more information about a reaper.
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sjsharp2010
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Go Team!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Go Team!
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Apr 23, 2020 13:26:09 GMT
Considering the Geth are more advanced, have no limitations when it comes to work like need of food/sleep/etc, and knew of the Reapers but could only build one Dreadnought in half a year is all the proof you need that the galaxy wouldn’t have been able to build enough to face them. But did the Geth actually care about the Reapers? The Reapers butcher organic beings, and surely the experience of the Heretics would give them the impression they don't need to worry about the "Old Machines" at all. Likewise, we've no idea how long it actually took them to build that, or if it was in response to Reapers, or fear of the Quarians returning. Prett ysuer that Legion himself says tha tthe Geth believe the reapers were a threat a smuch to them as they were to organics.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Apr 23, 2020 13:30:13 GMT
Because the story of fighting darkspawn was a hell of a lot better, than the story of the Reapers. The Reapers, as a final enemy, at that level of power and at those numbers were, as portrayed in ME1 and ME2 were never a viable conflict. Which creates a number of issues in the narrative from the start. There was a missed opportunity in ME2 to find a weakness No matter the weakness, it would not have helped ME3. A weakness need to be a kill switch, effectively, at the numbers of the Reapers. As we've seen in ME1, Reapers are faster, out of FTL, than the fastest of the ships the council races have. With the numbers and size of the Reapers, the numerical and maneuverability advantage is lost already. Any weak spot would be well guarded and a suicide mission for any force attempting to reach it, let alone survive long enough to exploit it. Unless entire fleets gang up on singular Reapers, to minimize the number of casualties, which will still be considerable, in order to take it down with the least risk of failure involved, it is useless and even so, it would have to be a tactic that is infinitely repeatable, to kill those hundreds of thousands of Reapers. Unless the weakness would render the Reapers weak enough to pose no threat to the Citadel fleets, it is of no use to the script and if they can be repelled from the Citadel fleets, it means that the Reapers are not a big enough threat to make the deal that ME3 makes out of them. We would, effectively, need to make an entire different ME3 to facilitate the changes we made to ME2 to get an inferior conflict, effectively nullying the Reaper threat as it was established in ME1. Realistically, we need to never engage the Reaper War as a big, extinction level event, because it doesn't work in a squad based TPS. If you write it, you will only be playing ME3, with a different coat of paint, or it will be an easily solvable conflict that leaves us with an entire game of doing something off to the side, while the rest of the galaxy is engaged in the war, for a small period of time. There's no game in that.
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Post by cloud9 on Apr 23, 2020 14:15:34 GMT
If you have never heard of MrBTongue I highly recommend checking out his channel below. It's my one-stop shop to help me sleep at night after ME3 Ending. I hate the argument that it's because the ending was "too sad". I undermines the entire thematically jarring and lore breaking ending. www.youtube.com/channel/UCI3GAJaOTL1BoipG41OmfyAI watched his review on the ending, and I understand what he's coming from that the ending did put details how Shepard's squad lenders survive the final push to the Citadel Beam, slideshows of different endings, and the narrative that BioWare is going for. But the entire ending makes no sense from the beginning. Like for example, how does Shepard survived a death beam from Harbinger? Shepard would've been obliterated, and it would've end the story right then and there. But lo and behold, the power of plot armor gives Shepard a fighting chance to reach the beam and into the Citadel. And what makes them so sure that the beam is safe to use, where it could be a deathtrap for anyone that the beam can melt them into goo for proccessing? They haven't take that to consideration that what if the beam is dangerous for people? And how does the Citadel finally under the control of the Reapers, where the Protheans reprogrammed the signal for the keepers, to not override the Citadel to open a portal for the Reapers? The only way to override that was Saren using the Conduit to override the Citadel controls for Sovereign to open a way for the Reapers. And it never explains how the Citadel was regained by the Reapers on the third game. And the whole star child was a cluster fuck to begin with. The main reason why it decides committed mass genocide of sentient species who advanced in technology, was to "preserve and help organics to ascend". That's like saying, "Hey, I'm saving an endangered species of animals, by killing them off to preserve the endangered species." And comparing itself to fire to justify it's meaningless existence, is one of the worst explanations that I've ever seen in my life. And the organic/synthetic argument was very poorly written, because it's a very poor excuse to justify mass genocide and mass extinction. How is that a solution to a problem that can easily been solved, by coexisting with sentient synthetics? Like unifying the Geth and Quarians for the first time in 300 years, after centuries of conflict between two peoples. And they are working together to make their homeworld a better place. There should be no need for synthesis to coexist with synthetics. It's like Mac Walters and other writers don't really know what they're doing. And that is why it really needs a complete rewrite.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Apr 23, 2020 14:18:52 GMT
But did the Geth actually care about the Reapers? No, but considering the motives of the Reapers, they should. Which begs the question, why did the Reapers help the Geth, with the use of Reaper code, if ... my brains hurts. If the purpose of the Reapers is to harvest organics, to prevent them from being killed by synthetics, why empower synthetics to kill organics, so you won't be able to harvest them, only to then return to kill the synthetics, that you've already strengthened, without the help of the organics, who you were supposed to protect, so you could harvest them. Unless you don't plan to kill the synthetics. In which case you lied about your cause, which I can accept, but if you lied about it, where did all the synthetics that you didn't kill go? But if you did kill them and your plan was to kill the synthetics, to prevent them from killing organics, because you want to harvest the organics, then why not just kill the synthetics, to prevent them from killing the organics you want to harvest? For a supreme fucking intelligence, this all seems very counter productive. It's been eight years and I'm still left with no answer to these questions. I'm sure you guys have talked this to death over here in the meantime, but I don't know what your conclusion is to this and, even so, I guess Drew covered those tracks by saying the Reapers were "beyond our comprehension". Technically correct, though for the wrong reasons.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Apr 23, 2020 15:29:45 GMT
And the whole star child was a cluster fuck to begin with. The main reason why it decides committed mass genocide of sentient species who advanced in technology, was to "preserve and help organics to ascend". That's like saying, "Hey, I'm saving an endangered species of animals, by killing them off to preserve the endangered species." And comparing itself to fire to justify it's meaningless existence, is one of the worst explanations that I've ever seen in my life. And the organic/synthetic argument was very poorly written, because it's a very poor excuse to justify mass genocide and mass extinction. How is that a solution to a problem that can easily been solved, by coexisting with sentient synthetics? How about ... the first Reaper ever created was from the scraps of the last civilization that was at the brink of the collapse of its universe. As their last ditch effort, they were able to jump to a different universe. To do that, they created the Reaper, which is a pod for their genetic material, because their mortal bodies wouldn't be able to survive the jump. Ever since, the First Reaper has been harvesting remaining civilizations of universes at the brink of collapse, until they eventually came upon one that will never die. This universe expands at a rate far greater than all other universes combined, where entropy gives birth to new galaxies so fast, that no matter the life forms that inhabit it, it will never be fully populated, neither by indigenous life, nor from life forms of other universes. From that Universe as their base, a universe they've called "Heaven", which we'll have also take religious extensions, because we're shallow like that, the Reapers go out and harvest civilizations from other universes to preserve them there for the rest of eternity, by recreating them, through their genetic makeup, which they've harvested. Why do the Reapers do that? Because they've seen a horror of wasted potential in countless life forms as they fought each other, with scraps, for scraps at the edge of extinction. It is an unfathomable horror, beyond our comprehension. And the Relays are also, when used correctly, relays through other Universes, which explains why, even though we understand Eezo based tech, that the Relays elude us as technology. They are far more complex than an eezo drive. Also, why the Reapers needed the Citadel relay; because the trip is looooong. Nah, it's stupid. Doesn't explain the "you live, because we allow it and you will die, because we demand it" line Sovereign gives. Clearly, the Reapers are malevolent and the ME3 motive makes even less sense in hindsight. Unless Sovereign was in the spectrum and just couldn't convey his message that well. It's best to say that the Reapers are being dishonest about their motives in ME3 and that they are inherently malevolent in nature, eradicating all organic life because they just don't like organics. Which makes Destroy the only choice, as it removes all ambiguity about the morality of the choice.
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