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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2
sicklyhour015
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Post by cloud9 on Apr 24, 2020 2:12:36 GMT
Regardless if it's funny or not, he does break down plenty of plot holes and inconsistencies, and how he goes into details how the ending is one of the worst endings in history of BioWare. That doesn't make him worth listening to when hes an entertainer first. You want to give good critique, you need to actually weigh the critique without obvious partiality. Just because you can point to a plot hole doesn't mean you have much to say about it that is of substance. Plus, the opinion of it being the worst ending in the history of BioWare or whatever is not actual critique. It's just opinion laced with poor joke writing that struggles to entertain. You need better sources to listen to frankly if that is what your looking for. I would suggest Noah Gervais, hes pretty good. He does give out good critique. You just don't like what he's saying.
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Aug 14, 2016 11:41:22 GMT
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2
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Post by cloud9 on Apr 24, 2020 2:48:33 GMT
They build the crucible in a matter of weeks, When talking with Tali at the forward operating base, Shepard says a few months. I will use 3 to represent a few. So yes, it took weeks, about 12 weeks to build the giant microphone. When talking with Hackett, after the coup, he says once decoded the plans are easily translated. How many should they build? No one knows how large a force the reapers have. The other thing is no knows when the reapers will show up. Lets say you do build x number of ships, how would you have them posted in the galaxy to deal with the reapers. No one knows where they will first show up. How do you know the advanced weaponry you have will make a difference? I don't blame the governments since there is little to no information provided that would cause them to go into panic mode to start building ships. What answers would you give your government when they ask how many reapers are there? When will they show up? What's the best way to defend ourselves against them? Why are they doing what you say they're doing? Of course if Shepard recorded the conversation with Sovereign and Virgil, it would be a start. At least it would give the council something to think about. Another way is ask the asari councilor if she's willing to do the mind meld thing with Shepard to see the visions herself. And what I said in an earlier post is a missed opportunity in ME2 with the derelict reaper. Have the SR2 fly around the reaper scanning it looking for weak points especially looking at the damage it suffered, and while Shepard is inside the reaper, scan to give more information about a reaper. Exactly. They could meld minds with other beings to gather evidence from Shepard's neo cortex. The Prothean Cipher, Sovereign, the Rachni Queen, etc. And Shepard should've informed the Council and the Alliance that they've found a 37 million year old Reaper that can debunk that Geth build them, because the Geth were not created at that time. But the writers just overlook and threw up their hands and say, "fuck it" "let's just make shit up as we go along".
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Polka Dot
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 679 Likes: 1,207
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Feb 14, 2019 20:07:41 GMT
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polkadot
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Polka Dot on Apr 24, 2020 3:33:22 GMT
Pretty sure in a situation where the government isn't written as being totally brainless, this treaty would be either suspended or dissolved in the wake of obvious danger. I don't really want to jump into this really pointless argument that is proving nothing, but I have to comment on this simply because it is expecting logic that doesn't exist. To use a real world example, the U.S here right now is fucking floundering because of COVID-19, with federal stockpiles and lack of testing more or less being off-limits for the states, despite the states asking for it. We also have several government officials pushing for the U.S to reopen because of the economic troubles...which in turn will likely cause a second spike of cases and deaths if it follows any sort of pattern of other diseases we had in history. So where is the logic here in the real world scenario? We can argue what is right and wrong sure, but the problem is we know what the solution is, but no political will to do it, either to further specific narratives, agendas, or simple not fucking caring. Before anyone asks, I recovered from being sick from this already as well, and my family had to endure it too. Were in New York right now, and the shortage of resources meant not only can I not get tested while I was sick (limited to only those knowingly exposed by someone who tested positive), but I can't donate plasma for others because of that lack of testing as proof. So these things do matter in the grand scheme of things. Expecting logic, especially from governments and leadership, is utopian. This is why there is always politics and disagreement, a very real thing, honestly. Put it in perspective of the governments here; why the heck would anyone suspend the Treaty openly when they denounced the Reapers as existing? Secretly, maybe they make changes. But in reality...what do they gain or lose? If they suspend it because of the invasion sure, but by then it's more or less too late right since most modes and transportation lines are cut. You had to literally scavenger hunt for resources and ships to fight back in one system on a gamble to win, no? You make some good points here. That said, I hadn't bothered to respond to therevanchist25 because it was in reference to what amounts to an aside, really. As is often the case 'round these parts, he picked up the least significant part of my post and ran away with it. The crux of my message has to do with questions about why the Council races weren't mass producing warships post ME1. While we don't have much data about the rate at which they could produce such vessels, there are some indications that they don't exactly grow on trees, such as: -- The Alliance had not yet replaced the vessels lost in the battle with Sovereign. This would indicate that they either didn't think they needed them or couldn't get the funding or... more likely the process is a lengthy one, and they hadn't been completed. -- Dreadnoughts have to be built at space stations; they cannot be constructed groundside. Since the Treaty of Farixen means you're not going to be building dreadnoughts very often, you'd have no reason to have much infrastructure in place - maybe enough to build/service/retrofit a couple of dreads at a time. IOW, in order to build a dreadnought fleet, you'd first have to build the necessary space stations. -- It sure looks to me like repealing or suspending the Treaty of Farixen would have no impact in the short to mid term. It would likely take years just to build out the space stations you'd need operational before you could even think about building a fleet. (Nevermind that Cerberus conjured up a respectable fleet - and fully equipped armies - in a NY minute. The plot demands what the plot demands.)
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March 2017
therevanchist25
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
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Post by therevanchist25 on Apr 24, 2020 9:17:45 GMT
I don't really want to jump into this really pointless argument that is proving nothing, but I have to comment on this simply because it is expecting logic that doesn't exist. To use a real world example, the U.S here right now is fucking floundering because of COVID-19, with federal stockpiles and lack of testing more or less being off-limits for the states, despite the states asking for it. We also have several government officials pushing for the U.S to reopen because of the economic troubles...which in turn will likely cause a second spike of cases and deaths if it follows any sort of pattern of other diseases we had in history. So where is the logic here in the real world scenario? We can argue what is right and wrong sure, but the problem is we know what the solution is, but no political will to do it, either to further specific narratives, agendas, or simple not fucking caring. Before anyone asks, I recovered from being sick from this already as well, and my family had to endure it too. Were in New York right now, and the shortage of resources meant not only can I not get tested while I was sick (limited to only those knowingly exposed by someone who tested positive), but I can't donate plasma for others because of that lack of testing as proof. So these things do matter in the grand scheme of things. Expecting logic, especially from governments and leadership, is utopian. This is why there is always politics and disagreement, a very real thing, honestly. Put it in perspective of the governments here; why the heck would anyone suspend the Treaty openly when they denounced the Reapers as existing? Secretly, maybe they make changes. But in reality...what do they gain or lose? If they suspend it because of the invasion sure, but by then it's more or less too late right since most modes and transportation lines are cut. You had to literally scavenger hunt for resources and ships to fight back in one system on a gamble to win, no? You make some good points here. That said, I hadn't bothered to respond to therevanchist25 because it was in reference to what amounts to an aside, really. As is often the case 'round these parts, he picked up the least significant part of my post and ran away with it.The crux of my message has to do with questions about why the Council races weren't mass producing warships post ME1. While we don't have much data about the rate at which they could produce such vessels, there are some indications that they don't exactly grow on trees, such as: -- The Alliance had not yet replaced the vessels lost in the battle with Sovereign. This would indicate that they either didn't think they needed them or couldn't get the funding or... more likely the process is a lengthy one, and they hadn't been completed. -- Dreadnoughts have to be built at space stations; they cannot be constructed groundside. Since the Treaty of Farixen means you're not going to be building dreadnoughts very often, you'd have no reason to have much infrastructure in place - maybe enough to build/service/retrofit a couple of dreads at a time. IOW, in order to build a dreadnought fleet, you'd first have to build the necessary space stations. -- It sure looks to me like repealing or suspending the Treaty of Farixen would have no impact in the short to mid term. It would likely take years just to build out the space stations you'd need operational before you could even think about building a fleet. (Nevermind that Cerberus conjured up a respectable fleet - and fully equipped armies - in a NY minute. The plot demands what the plot demands.) One sentence is running away with something? lol come on man don't do that. second point, exactly why this debate is ridiculous. Cerberus conjured an entire military out of thin air, in no time flat. So everyone sitting here saying how impossible it is for the entire galaxy to achieve the same results is kind of silly. Ultimately debates like these, just prove how horrifically flawed the entire franchise is. Because people debate with facts from the games, facts that constantly contradict each other. So when you can't rely on facts from the source material, all your left with is speculation and assumptions, which is terrible for debate.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 24, 2020 9:50:28 GMT
everything wrong with ME3
not having the option to work with Cerberus
Faction switching could never really work effectively at the scale this game was working with, but then aligning with Cerberus is infeasible considering what BioWare chose to have them do. All that experimenting on people and using reaper tech for husk-like shock troopers and such was never going to fly as a thing to side with, especially since that would require 2 separate sets of NPC’s on every level of the ship. There’d be no way for Shepard to convince or force any of the current roster to join, not unless BioWare decided to severely break their characters.
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Post by themikefest on Apr 24, 2020 12:00:18 GMT
Exactly. They could meld minds with other beings to gather evidence from Shepard's neo cortex. The Prothean Cipher, Sovereign, the Rachni Queen, etc. And Shepard should've informed the Council and the Alliance that they've found a 37 million year old Reaper that can debunk that Geth build them, because the Geth were not created at that time. But the writers just overlook and threw up their hands and say, "fuck it" "let's just make shit up as we go along". Ah yes, the cipher. This is what I posted about that in another thread Why didn't Shepard's cipher react to the artifacts when walking around the temple before the cutscene showing the asari scientists lying dead on the ground? Or why it didn't react near the artifact seen on Mars?
Here's an explanation from Arisugawa
Just finished a trilogy run. I have many of these in mind, but I don't know how motivated I am to write them.
The importance of the Prothean Cipher is forgotten
It's pretty much ignored entirely in Mass Effect 2: there is the beacon message viewed during N7: Archeological Dig Site and the recovered sphere in Project Firewalker: Prothean Site, but if the cipher is meaningful in these two situations it happens within Shepard's mind and is not shown to the player.
In Mass Effect 3, the cipher comes into play in a significant sense twice: once, when trying to awaken Javik, and a second time when investigating the Temple of Athame on Thessia.
However, it is completely forgotten in other circumstances. Let's accept that what Shiala told Shepard on Feros is true: the cipher is the experience of being prothean. It allows one to understand the language, the culture, and the people. Shiala did say it would take time to fully understand it, of course, so some forgiveness may be given for the fact that Shepard had weeks between obtaining the cipher and the collector attack over Alchera. Shepard's mind would have had time to process the cipher after the Lazarus Project, however, but no progress on this front was ever made.
Here are some things to think about:
In Mass Effect 3, Liara is constantly complaining that she needs better prothean material to work with to help decipher the Crucible plans. Well, Shepard is the walking codex of prothean comprehension. The knowledge may not necessarily be accessible immediately, but it is there. There's no explanation at all as to why Liara doesn't gain the cipher herself by bonding with Shepard's mind. If Shiala can absorb it from the Thorian and share it with both Saren and Shepard, Liara should be able to do the same. Or if not Liara, another asari with Shiala's skill level. Liara, or whomever, could then share it with whomever was working on the Crucible project with the need of the knowledge. The majority of the prothean artifact collection assignments become instantly irrelevant. The Crucible is finished faster, or at least any phase that isn't dependent upon obtaining additional construction materials would be.
In Mass Effect 3, Shepard tells Javik that the prothean psychometric ability is puzzling. But that's just it. It shouldn't be. With the cipher, Shepard should either already understand it outright, or the first experience with it should have awakened the cipher memory so that it was then understood. The whole thing is a mess, likely because the writers needed to have someone be utterly ignorant of how it worked and that requires Shepard to ask questions, but Shepard is not the one who should be asking questions. Shepard should know.
Shepard's relationship with Javik should be much, much different than portrayed. Shepard would be the only person in the galaxy that would actually understand Javik, know why Javik's perspective is the way it is, comprehend the imperialist nature the protheans had. Even if Shepard disagreed with Javik, the cipher should have made Shepard someone Javik could at least feel more comfortable around.
In Mass Effect 3, Shepard shouldn't have to ask about the Echo Shard from the perspective of ignorance. Again, Shepard should know what the shards are, even if the specifics of the one Javik has are not known.
In Leviathan, while searching Bryson's lab, Shepard asks EDI if a particular artifact is prothean. Shepard should know this. If anything, EDI should be asking Shepard to confirm that it is prothean.
More example exist, scattered throughout the trilogy. These are the just the ones that immediately come to mind.
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sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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Post by SirSourpuss on Apr 24, 2020 12:42:52 GMT
Have you checked these numbers? Checked the accuracy of Anderson's statement? I mean ... can I?
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Post by burningcherry on Apr 24, 2020 12:46:08 GMT
Have you checked these numbers? Checked the accuracy of Anderson's statement? I mean ... can I? Not accuracy, existence.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Apr 24, 2020 12:51:20 GMT
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Post by burningcherry on Apr 24, 2020 13:24:14 GMT
This gets boring… you confused millions with billions.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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Post by SirSourpuss on Apr 24, 2020 13:40:22 GMT
This gets boring… you confused millions with billions. Oh. I'm sorry. I didn't notice.
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Post by cloud9 on Apr 24, 2020 14:19:53 GMT
Exactly. They could meld minds with other beings to gather evidence from Shepard's neo cortex. The Prothean Cipher, Sovereign, the Rachni Queen, etc. And Shepard should've informed the Council and the Alliance that they've found a 37 million year old Reaper that can debunk that Geth build them, because the Geth were not created at that time. But the writers just overlook and threw up their hands and say, "fuck it" "let's just make shit up as we go along". Ah yes, the cipher. This is what I posted about that in another thread Why didn't Shepard's cipher react to the artifacts when walking around the temple before the cutscene showing the asari scientists lying dead on the ground? Or why it didn't react near the artifact seen on Mars?
Here's an explanation from Arisugawa
Just finished a trilogy run. I have many of these in mind, but I don't know how motivated I am to write them.
The importance of the Prothean Cipher is forgotten
It's pretty much ignored entirely in Mass Effect 2: there is the beacon message viewed during N7: Archeological Dig Site and the recovered sphere in Project Firewalker: Prothean Site, but if the cipher is meaningful in these two situations it happens within Shepard's mind and is not shown to the player.
In Mass Effect 3, the cipher comes into play in a significant sense twice: once, when trying to awaken Javik, and a second time when investigating the Temple of Athame on Thessia.
However, it is completely forgotten in other circumstances. Let's accept that what Shiala told Shepard on Feros is true: the cipher is the experience of being prothean. It allows one to understand the language, the culture, and the people. Shiala did say it would take time to fully understand it, of course, so some forgiveness may be given for the fact that Shepard had weeks between obtaining the cipher and the collector attack over Alchera. Shepard's mind would have had time to process the cipher after the Lazarus Project, however, but no progress on this front was ever made.
Here are some things to think about:
In Mass Effect 3, Liara is constantly complaining that she needs better prothean material to work with to help decipher the Crucible plans. Well, Shepard is the walking codex of prothean comprehension. The knowledge may not necessarily be accessible immediately, but it is there. There's no explanation at all as to why Liara doesn't gain the cipher herself by bonding with Shepard's mind. If Shiala can absorb it from the Thorian and share it with both Saren and Shepard, Liara should be able to do the same. Or if not Liara, another asari with Shiala's skill level. Liara, or whomever, could then share it with whomever was working on the Crucible project with the need of the knowledge. The majority of the prothean artifact collection assignments become instantly irrelevant. The Crucible is finished faster, or at least any phase that isn't dependent upon obtaining additional construction materials would be.
In Mass Effect 3, Shepard tells Javik that the prothean psychometric ability is puzzling. But that's just it. It shouldn't be. With the cipher, Shepard should either already understand it outright, or the first experience with it should have awakened the cipher memory so that it was then understood. The whole thing is a mess, likely because the writers needed to have someone be utterly ignorant of how it worked and that requires Shepard to ask questions, but Shepard is not the one who should be asking questions. Shepard should know.
Shepard's relationship with Javik should be much, much different than portrayed. Shepard would be the only person in the galaxy that would actually understand Javik, know why Javik's perspective is the way it is, comprehend the imperialist nature the protheans had. Even if Shepard disagreed with Javik, the cipher should have made Shepard someone Javik could at least feel more comfortable around.
In Mass Effect 3, Shepard shouldn't have to ask about the Echo Shard from the perspective of ignorance. Again, Shepard should know what the shards are, even if the specifics of the one Javik has are not known.
In Leviathan, while searching Bryson's lab, Shepard asks EDI if a particular artifact is prothean. Shepard should know this. If anything, EDI should be asking Shepard to confirm that it is prothean.
More example exist, scattered throughout the trilogy. These are the just the ones that immediately come to mind. Like I said, the writers just threw their hands up, and making up bullshit as they go along. Instead of sticking to the story and being consistent.
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linksocarina
N5
Always teacher, sometimes writer
Teaching Mode Activated
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
Posts: 3,186 Likes: 4,072
inherit
Always teacher, sometimes writer
370
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4,072
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Teaching Mode Activated
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Post by linksocarina on Apr 24, 2020 14:33:03 GMT
That doesn't make him worth listening to when hes an entertainer first. You want to give good critique, you need to actually weigh the critique without obvious partiality. Just because you can point to a plot hole doesn't mean you have much to say about it that is of substance. Plus, the opinion of it being the worst ending in the history of BioWare or whatever is not actual critique. It's just opinion laced with poor joke writing that struggles to entertain. You need better sources to listen to frankly if that is what your looking for. I would suggest Noah Gervais, hes pretty good. He does give out good critique. You just don't like what he's saying. I don't like bad entertainment. No one with any form of sense takes the work of CinemaSins as critique, or at least as serious critique worth talking about. Same with this, and this is of lower quality because of the lack of jokes and charisma as I said. You need to understand that critique is not entertainment, even if your personal bias agrees with the 'sins'
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linksocarina
N5
Always teacher, sometimes writer
Teaching Mode Activated
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
Posts: 3,186 Likes: 4,072
inherit
Always teacher, sometimes writer
370
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4,072
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Teaching Mode Activated
3,186
August 2016
linksocarina
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
LinksOcarina
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Post by linksocarina on Apr 24, 2020 14:38:53 GMT
You make some good points here. That said, I hadn't bothered to respond to therevanchist25 because it was in reference to what amounts to an aside, really. As is often the case 'round these parts, he picked up the least significant part of my post and ran away with it.The crux of my message has to do with questions about why the Council races weren't mass producing warships post ME1. While we don't have much data about the rate at which they could produce such vessels, there are some indications that they don't exactly grow on trees, such as: -- The Alliance had not yet replaced the vessels lost in the battle with Sovereign. This would indicate that they either didn't think they needed them or couldn't get the funding or... more likely the process is a lengthy one, and they hadn't been completed. -- Dreadnoughts have to be built at space stations; they cannot be constructed groundside. Since the Treaty of Farixen means you're not going to be building dreadnoughts very often, you'd have no reason to have much infrastructure in place - maybe enough to build/service/retrofit a couple of dreads at a time. IOW, in order to build a dreadnought fleet, you'd first have to build the necessary space stations. -- It sure looks to me like repealing or suspending the Treaty of Farixen would have no impact in the short to mid term. It would likely take years just to build out the space stations you'd need operational before you could even think about building a fleet. (Nevermind that Cerberus conjured up a respectable fleet - and fully equipped armies - in a NY minute. The plot demands what the plot demands.)One sentence is running away with something? lol come on man don't do that. second point, exactly why this debate is ridiculous. Cerberus conjured an entire military out of thin air, in no time flat. So everyone sitting here saying how impossible it is for the entire galaxy to achieve the same results is kind of silly. Ultimately debates like these, just prove how horrifically flawed the entire franchise is. Because people debate with facts from the games, facts that constantly contradict each other. So when you can't rely on facts from the source material, all your left with is speculation and assumptions, which is terrible for debate. That's why it's kind of dumb, it's not a debate when you made up your mind already. No one really cares about debating that, except those who feel personally affected by it. Everyone knows the franchise is flawed, though what you focus on is so pedantic that, quite honestly, is just leading to circular arguments that get nowhere. Folks tend to overly praise lore in games as it is. But to take it like gospel when it does change as the game changes is a form of rigid fundamentalism that is actually antithetical to good debate.
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Post by cloud9 on Apr 24, 2020 14:47:06 GMT
Ok, here's my point of questioning inconsistencies, and plot holes that makes ME2 very problematic, and how it affects ME3. 1: Why the Council didn't study the wreckage of Sovereign to investigate about the Reapers, or to be prepared for the the invasion? 2: Why the Collectors suddenly want to destroy the Normandy? Is it because of the Reapers wanted Shepard dead? Why do they want him/her dead? 3:Shepard's death doesn't make any sense on the beginning of ME2. Why they didn't set it up for Shepard's death on the end of ME1, when a debris crashed on Shepard? (It would made sense to bring him/her back to life from there, because Shepard has the Prothean Cipher that can be used) And how his/her body survived crashing into the planet's atmosphere? And how does Shepard's resurrection benefitted Cerberus, other than hero worship and a reference of Space Jesus? 4: Why the Council denied the Reapers after Sovereign invaded the Citadel? Why didn't the Asari Councillor just read Shepard's mind to find evidence of the Reaper's existence? 5: Why Cerberus wanted to send Shepard on a suicide mission to stop the Collectors, if it has absolutely nothing to do to stop, or to be prepared for the Reapers? 6: Why would the Reapers wanted the Collectors to build a Reaper-Human hybrid? 7: How did Cerberus salvaged the Hybrid without the IFF? 8: Why Shepard didn't informed The Alliance or the Council that they have discovered a 30 million year old Reaper to confirm their existence? 9: What was the point of the Arrival DLC where Shepard destroyed a Mass Relay, to prevent Reapers from entering the Galaxy? And the Reapers invaded the entire galaxy anyway, despite the fact that Shepard and Crew stopped Saren and Sovereign from overriding the Citadel. And it never explained or hinted how Reapers invaded the entire galaxy. So therefore, what was the point of Mass Effect 1 and 2? 1. They did study the wreckage. As did every other group who got a piece of it. Denying their existence was only publicly. 2. Because Shepard was on it, and they wanted to either have them harvested for their new Reaper or eliminated since they have shown to be an obstacle to their plan. 3. Because they wanted ME1 to have a happy ending, as well as them not having all the details in mind yet for the sequels. As for Shepard's body surviving and Project Lazarus, yeah those are Deus Ex Machinas. As for benefiting Cerberus, they are a pro-human group who now has the most influential human working for them. 4. Again, the denial was only publicly to avoid mass panic. 5. It did help them prepare for the Reapers. They wanted the base since that gave them the technology to know how to stop them. 6. They do that with all the Reapers, serving as the core while in the typical shell. 7. They still had access to the Normandy when it was used, so got it from there before EDI locked them out. 8. Once again, only publicly denied. Also the dead Reaper was destroyed so they had no evidence. 9. The destruction of the Mass Relay delayed the Reaper's attack for a few months, giving the galaxy a little more time to prepare. As for how they invaded, they flew there. The Citadel trap only let them get there faster and wipe out galactic leadership, making the harvest more efficient. Once they flew into the galaxy, they used the Mass Relays like they planned to with the one in the Arrival DLC. Ok, what you said about the whole situation about Shepard being dead in ME2 makes no sense. Why would the Collectors are hell bent on killing Shepard, for them to abduct human colonies? Shepard is just one person, not a high tier universal level being. He/She's just a soldier. And you said that they're trying to make a the first game to have a happy ending, which also makes no sense. And it still doesn't make any sense why Cerberus wanted to resurrect Shepard, because he/she's a symbol. Which it was stupid reason to bring back someone from the dead. If the entire first game was discovering about the Reapers, then the second game was suppose to be to prepare for the Reapers. So a happy ending of the first game makes no damn sense at all. Either they want Shepard dead permanently, or don't write the main character dying at all. Unless it's an actual ending to have them to die permenantely. And the Council denying the existence of the Reapers isn't the same as preventing a mass panic. If the Council is taking the threat seriously, (as they should) then why didn't they take action to put forth an effort to have researchers/intelligence agencies to gather information in what they're dealing with, have manufacturing companies to build effective weapons and ships to combat against them, and set up the economy to fund all this to have civilizations across the galaxy to be prepared? And the Arrival DLC is absolutely pointless, because no matter what you do to prevent Reapers from invading the galaxy, they're still going to invade the galaxy without any explanation how they find their way into to the galaxy. So the major choices and actions don't carry over to Mass Effect trilogy. So there you go.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2020 14:56:12 GMT
Harbinger not having a bigger role not having another option when it came to choosing an ending Heh, you guys just want to hear it trash talk Shepard. That to you would make a "better" game. Someone even created a mod for it. Harbinger did have a role in ME3. Leading the attack on Earth, and guarding the beam so no one gets up to the Citadel. It's not about having *more* options. It's about having *better* options. One of the things certain critics preached during the ME3 controversy was wanting a heroic ending with a bigger sense of accomplishment. We "deserve" a better ending, they cried. We *demand* a better ending.
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Post by cloud9 on Apr 24, 2020 15:12:36 GMT
He does give out good critique. You just don't like what he's saying. I don't like bad entertainment. No one with any form of sense takes the work of CinemaSins as critique, or at least as serious critique worth talking about. Same with this, and this is of lower quality because of the lack of jokes and charisma as I said. You need to understand that critique is not entertainment, even if your personal bias agrees with the 'sins' Ok, then find a video to entertain yourself. It's not like I'm forcing you to watch the video. You do you. 🙄🙃🙃
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Post by cloud9 on Apr 24, 2020 15:18:41 GMT
If you watch the video for yourself, it pretty explains why I've been pushing a complete reboot of the Mass Effect Trilogy. And the video (hilariously) breaks down inconsistencies of the story like why does Shepard destroy or spared the Collector Base where it doesn't change or affect ME3 in any way, contradictions, and most important of all: the catalyst idiotic logic of creating Reapers to preserve organic life, by melting them and transforming them into Reapers to "save" organics. Which it is one of the worst endings that BioWare has ever done. Personally I think having the choice at all for the Collector base was kind of a mistake, but realistically, there was no way the third game could diverge dramatically based on this decision. It affects what’s available at the end based on the score, but any more than that just isn’t really feasible. Exactly.
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Post by themikefest on Apr 24, 2020 15:55:11 GMT
Heh, you guys just want to hear it trash talk Shepard. That to you would make a "better" game. Someone even created a mod for it. It? Harbinger? Sure I like to hear Harbinger talk smack to Shepard. I know my Shepard enjoyed it in ME2. Too bad my Shepard couldn't talk smack to Harbinger. Who are the you guys you're talking about? Can you provide a link to the mod that you mention that has it trash talking Shepard? Harbinger failed. Shepard and Anderson made up to the Citadel. And if the others didn't suffer from temporary blindness, more characters could have made it up the beam. Having more options wouldn't hurt. Having better options would be good, but who's to decide if those options are better. I posted what I did because the game has the player making choices throughout the game. Why not add another that Shepard could choose when it came to the endings. Here's what I'm referring to.
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Post by linksocarina on Apr 24, 2020 16:16:52 GMT
I don't like bad entertainment. No one with any form of sense takes the work of CinemaSins as critique, or at least as serious critique worth talking about. Same with this, and this is of lower quality because of the lack of jokes and charisma as I said. You need to understand that critique is not entertainment, even if your personal bias agrees with the 'sins' Ok, then find a video to entertain yourself. It's not like I'm forcing you to watch the video. You do you. 🙄🙃🙃 I always will. I just hope you learn something for yourself in the end over ignorant argumentation.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Apr 24, 2020 16:32:32 GMT
You need to understand that critique is not entertainment I beg to differ Critique can be both entertaining and informative. The way you approach it, can be up to the individual, in a parodying form, or a serious format. You may not like a particular someone's style of critique, but many people have made a career out of it. You can dislike them all, but some people are entertained by them. I just hope you learn something for yourself in the end over ignorant argumentation. Harsh. And unwarranted.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Apr 24, 2020 16:47:05 GMT
One sentence is running away with something? lol come on man don't do that. second point, exactly why this debate is ridiculous. Cerberus conjured an entire military out of thin air, in no time flat. So everyone sitting here saying how impossible it is for the entire galaxy to achieve the same results is kind of silly. Ultimately debates like these, just prove how horrifically flawed the entire franchise is. Because people debate with facts from the games, facts that constantly contradict each other. So when you can't rely on facts from the source material, all your left with is speculation and assumptions, which is terrible for debate. That's why it's kind of dumb, it's not a debate when you made up your mind already. No one really cares about debating that, except those who feel personally affected by it. Everyone knows the franchise is flawed, though what you focus on is so pedantic that, quite honestly, is just leading to circular arguments that get nowhere. Folks tend to overly praise lore in games as it is. But to take it like gospel when it does change as the game changes is a form of rigid fundamentalism that is actually antithetical to good debate. Everyone in this forum has made up minds already, no one in this forum is ever going to change their perspective about anything regarding ME at this point. So do not sit here and act like only one "side" of the debate has this mentality. I also cannot disagree enough with the statement of Narrative Consistency being a pedantic flaw. That has to frankly be the most ridiculous mentality I've ever seen. To sit here and brush aside horribly bad writing as no big deal because "Change happens, who cares?" Is apathy to such extreme levels that I wonder why anyone with such a mentality would ever bother with a story focused game to begin with. Yes, changes happen. That does not mean they get a free pass. "As I’ve said in the past few entries, even though Mass Effect 2 isn’t a horrible game, it’s also not the sequel suggested and prepared by Mass Effect 1. It’s tonally different. It’s thematically different. Important facts of the world and characters are changed, sometimes for poor reasons and sometimes for no discernible reason at all. This makes it incredibly frustrating for people who have spent a lot of time thinking about the first game. No matter how good Mass Effect 2 is, the fact that it tells this story means that we will never get the sequel we anticipated. The first game primed us and the main characters for a quest for knowledge and discovery that never took place. This disconnect isn’t the result of a single flaw that we can point to and say, “This! This one thing shouldn’t have been changed!” Instead the old story died the death of a thousand paper cuts. Numerous things were altered, forgotten, shifted in importance, or abruptly added on. Just one of these changes would be a little annoying, but harmless over the long haul of the series. But when stacked together they create a rift that no retcon or hand-waving can overcome. This is not a continuation of the story I loved, and no amount of gameplay polish or Garrus fanservice can change that. This is why these explanations are so damn long. People think I’m going through the story, searching for tiny, inconsequential things to gripe about because I enjoy nitpicking. And I do. But I’m going through this because all those “inconsequential things” compound until they kill my connection to the universe." Quoted from here. Why does this matter? "“[The Author] makes a Secondary World which your mind can enter. Inside it, what he relates is ‘true’: it accords with the laws of that world. You therefore believe it, while you are, as it were, inside. The moment disbelief arises, the spell is broken; the magic, or rather art, has failed. You are out in the Primary World again, looking at the abortive little Secondary World from the outside.” J. R. R. Tolkien That's why.
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Post by cloud9 on Apr 24, 2020 17:02:12 GMT
Ok, then find a video to entertain yourself. It's not like I'm forcing you to watch the video. You do you. 🙄🙃🙃 I always will. I just hope you learn something for yourself in the end over ignorant argumentation. ...
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Post by linksocarina on Apr 24, 2020 17:08:13 GMT
You need to understand that critique is not entertainment I beg to differ Critique can be both entertaining and informative. The way you approach it, can be up to the individual, in a parodying form, or a serious format. You may not like a particular someone's style of critique, but many people have made a career out of it. You can dislike them all, but some people are entertained by them. Sure, but then they are mostly poor critics. Gaming has tons of examples of this id say. Watching James Rolfe for example to take him seriously on his opinions on games is not a good idea. You watch stuff like AGVN because you want to see him shit on a game, not to talk about the finer points, the development cycle, the industry, and so on. That's beginning to change though. His episode on Jurassic Park Trespasser was pretty informative since he was able to actually talk to a developer in his typical; weird way. But it provided insight That said, part of the problem is the 'shtick' often gets in the way of good content. This was the same problem a lot of folks who provide critique with their entertainment have from my observations; its drowned out and watered down, and actually just surface analysis without in-depth consideration. It's only recently when good entertainers like Rolfe have started to change things up; looking back at older episodes Rolfe did, they have no real critique value to them other than the "angry nerd mad at mechanics/graphics/style/presentation etc." Can it be both? Sure. Is it good though, id argue not really. It's more of an exception vs a rule. Plus as you pointed out, it's kind of subjective what you consider entertaining or not which also factors into it. It's why I watch the likes of Noah Gervais, Shay, or even one shots like this Elder Scrolls Oblivion Retrospective or on occasion Joseph Anderson (who I find to be really hard to get through sometimes). It's more dry and less entertaining for most i'm sure, but it's also contextually informative 90% of the time, which I always advocate is a good thing for our culture, especially over a 'Sins' style video.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Apr 24, 2020 17:18:42 GMT
It's not about having *more* options. It's about having *better* options. One of the things certain critics preached during the ME3 controversy was wanting a heroic ending with a bigger sense of accomplishment. We "deserve" a better ending, they cried. We *demand* a better ending. I'd gladly cut off two endings in exchange for a remaining two that showed, in a better way than the EC, what happens to Earth, the fleets, the galaxies etc. In my opinion, that is a better ending to me. Possibly, a few less drawbacks would be nice. Like the Relays. I think that was a universal complaint that didn't sit well with anyone, in spite of Mac's "symbolism". There are many ways to describe better. Elaborate would be one. Descriptive? Just to feel like I did something. Would that have been that bad? On the other hand, endings that would show, with the same level of detail described above, events ranging from utter failure to victory, with whatever way you could achieve that. The way that I would describe the endings would be "poor" and I'd describe the EC ones a little above poor. Which is a heartbreaking way to end the trilogy.
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