FireAndBlood
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by FireAndBlood on Apr 30, 2020 19:14:00 GMT
WTF is a "Kamala Khan effect," anyway? Is this some alt-right douchebaggery I haven't yet heard of? (And yeah, I know who Khan is.) Kamala Khan Effect is something I coined up. It is when a very vocal community asks for something in a segment that their numbers cannot financially sustain. I do not want to downplay the cultural significance of Kamala Khan to the people that love her, but Sana Amanat saying she is of the same level as Spiderman is just not true, evident by the difference in sales numbers. Even as a newcomer, who understandably so, in a crowded comic book market, hasn't got a foothold in the industry, at least not yet, to have come back from cancellation as many times as she has, I believe Marvel has been fed some bad data. It is extremely unlikely that any publisher would do something like this for any other comic book hero. Usually, either the character gets killed off and a new one takes their place, in this case a new Ms Marvel, or a re-imagined version of the character gets relaunched, after a, usually, long period of hibernation. Neither of these happened with Kamala Khan. Which is unusual, to say the least. Hence why I believe it is bad data. If Ms. Marvel wasn’t a success she wouldn’t be getting her own show on Disney + or starring in the upcoming Avengers game. Oh but of course this is because Disney, a multi billion company, has bad data unlike you BSN shitposter #73 who has all the good data.
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Post by turianlannister on Apr 30, 2020 21:49:44 GMT
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Post by turianlannister on Apr 30, 2020 22:24:53 GMT
Killing bears is fine. There are millions of them in the Hinterlands and their population is unsustainable. Their numbers must be thinned so the rest may live. Surprised we’ve encountered no demon bears yet, though. There were plenty in the Storm Coast as well, fought one, immediately ran into another one and whilst we were fighting that one another one walked past close enough to trigger an attack No demon bears, just a sad bear. Petition for. MLM Bear LI in DA4! There were quite a few gay/bi guys on the internet who wanted to romance Blackwall
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Post by turianlannister on Apr 30, 2020 22:58:38 GMT
Were there any good looking dudes in Mass Effect Andromeda? I mean there was walmart Javik I guess. Liam Kosta was good looking I miss female desire demons. I wish the male desire demon, sorry choice demon, had looked like a male version of the female desire demons Except there is nothing to suggest she survives in most circumstances. Heck, talking her out of fighting you has her buying you time as she confronts Corypheus. As we know, he's not one to tolerate failures or traitors. Do you really need a bigger hint than that Calpernia hasn´t a bloody skelton in the Dragon Age Keep? Also no body means old videogame rule that the person isn´t dead.
So Calpernia lives in all possible world states. Edit: Hrungr was quicker And you could kill Leliana in Origins but she still showed up as an advisor The DA Keep shows that she does survive, regardless of what you do. And the fact that she tells you her grand plans for Tevinter should she survive confronting Cory, and then getting Dorian's approval, means... she's going to survive. She positioned in way she could be anything from quest-giver to companion. Please don't have her be a companion, Bioware. You're already most likely going to force the sadistic dwarf Harding on us, so keep the mass murdering war criminal away. Quest-giver is fine, so long as that means I can ruin her plans and see she's actually punished for her atrocities, since at least that doesn't waste a slot. In what way is Harding sadistic? Also, you can't have everyone being an uwu nice character By the way are Qunari women "cute? Because a new female Qunari partymember doesn´t seen that far-fetched. Maybe Bioware can reuse the idea of Valo-Kas leader Shokrakar? A qunari rebel?
"Shokrakar is a female qunari who spent her life rebelling against the dictates of the Qun, and finally escaped. She was always too aggressive and too opinionated to fit the Qunari´s idea of proper female behavior, and rebelled repeatedly against every profession and part of society the priests tried to force her into. Her name literally means ;rebel, in qunari. She bears hefty emotional and physical scars from years of enduring re-education camps, but is triumphant about having gained her freedom. She is forthright, confident and impossible to intimidate. Visually, she should show the scars of her background, but have a relaxed, open demeanor, since she has finally achieved everything she was fighting for"
Qunari women can be quite attractive. I made good looking one in the CC I'm going to quote Cole here.
"You couldn't help the bandits. Some people have to die. Being happy for your skill doesn't make you cruel. "
There is a difference between finding satisfaction in your skill and whatever makes someone make this face after killing somebody. Also where does he say that? She's doesn't really have any sort of look on her face here
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Sundance31us
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Mostly Harmless
BSNer since 2010
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sundance31us on Apr 30, 2020 23:02:37 GMT
I miss female desire demons. I wish the male desire demon, sorry choice demon, had looked like a male version of the female desire demons I approve of this.
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Post by alanc9 on May 1, 2020 0:26:47 GMT
WTF is a "Kamala Khan effect," anyway? Is this some alt-right douchebaggery I haven't yet heard of? (And yeah, I know who Khan is.) Kamala Khan Effect is something I coined up. It is when a very vocal community asks for something in a segment that their numbers cannot financially sustain. I do not want to downplay the cultural significance of Kamala Khan to the people that love her, but Sana Amanat saying she is of the same level as Spiderman is just not true, evident by the difference in sales numbers. Even as a newcomer, who understandably so, in a crowded comic book market, hasn't got a foothold in the industry, at least not yet, to have come back from cancellation as many times as she has, I believe Marvel has been fed some bad data. It is extremely unlikely that any publisher would do something like this for any other comic book hero. Usually, either the character gets killed off and a new one takes their place, in this case a new Ms Marvel, or a re-imagined version of the character gets relaunched, after a, usually, long period of hibernation. Neither of these happened with Kamala Khan. Which is unusual, to say the least. Hence why I believe it is bad data. Do you often use obscure phrases of your own coinage in conversations with people who have no idea what concept those phrases are supposed to convey? How well does that work for you?
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Post by Gwydden on May 1, 2020 4:07:30 GMT
Lololol. Sera, Josie, and Cass are all gorgeous. Not even "realistic" but hot. I'm genuinely baffled that anybody who's into women would look at any of them and nope out. (Not to put even more emphasis on this kind of thing, reducing a female character's value to whether or not one subjectively considers her sufficiently bangable......) I can see how some might find them pretty, but... Cassandra's kinda hot until you get to know her—will no one rid me of this turbulent seeker? Sera behaves like an overgrown child. Josephine fits right into that "cutesy ingénue" archetype Bioware seems to love so much but which I personally can't stand. Not to mention her fashion sense hurts my eyes! People talk a lot about Morrigan's sexualization, but it didn't register for me at all when I first played DA:O. I think it's got something to do with how everyone shared a character model in DA:O, so she and Leliana sort of looked like the same generic Barbie doll with a different hairstyle and getup. Sexy it ain't. Honestly, I think the only DA companion that's ever struck me as particularly hot is Isabela, and even she suffered from the mandatory flanderization of everyone in DA2. Alas, the missed potential! I reckon OP would have liked deeper analysis of skull shapes in my evaluation, but phrenology is so passé. More seriously, an issue with female love interests available to male PCs is that they have to cater to the likely target audience (as all romances do to some extent) and be characters in their own right. I say "issue" although it shouldn't be; some evidently prefer to belabor the point. But I could see Bioware being reticent to focus too much on the first goal for fear of going too far. People whose opinion I respect deem Isabela's whole character blatant pandering, for instance, despite her being written by a woman, and I don't entirely disagree (see previously referenced flanderization). I could see an argument, made in good faith (OP's isn't; he's clearly a troll), that Cassandra and Josephine aren't LIs meant to cater to men to the same extent Cullen, Solas, or even Blackwall are clearly meant to cater to women. I find that... interesting, though I'm not petty enough to get worked up about it.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 1, 2020 4:23:00 GMT
Josephine fits right into that "cutesy ingénue" archetype Bioware seems to love so much I hope they never stop, though having male versions of that archtype would be nice too.
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Post by witchcocktor on May 1, 2020 8:54:59 GMT
I could see an argument, made in good faith (OP's isn't; he's clearly a troll), that Cassandra and Josephine aren't LIs meant to cater to men to the same extent Cullen, Solas, or even Blackwall are clearly meant to cater to women. I find that... interesting, though I'm not petty enough to get worked up about it.I am. Though I don't see Blackwall catering to women as much as the other two you mentioned, it's pretty clear that there is certain favoritism going on one way or another. I also find it amusing when someone goes '' female qunari/dwarf has ONLY TWO OPTIONS '' because dude, that's what the rest of us have, like...? If I am to believe that for the dev team and writers, the characters come first and foremost and the romances are written afterwards and handed out on the basis on what feels '' right '' for the character themselves instead of going by what would be the best received by different players, then I hope DA4 does a better job at convincing me of that, or that they are at least more equal in how they hand out the romances. But I think another interesting discussion would be that is it a good method NOT to specifically try and cater to different players with romances?
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Post by vertigomez on May 1, 2020 10:58:48 GMT
Josephine never struck me as an ingenue. Her romance is sweet but I see her as an experienced politician, a bit of a workaholic, very responsible where her family and job are concerned, someone who loves the sea and wants to sail beyond the borders of the known world. Leliana says she's innocent in love but I only took this to mean she's never been in love before lol, not a comment on anything else. This is what I got from talking to her, anyway. And Cassandra's no-nonsense attitude and faith, and Sera's goofy childishness and earnestness.... I mean, they're all very different people. Not all of them are going to appeal to everyone, but I'm surprised that some people don't like even one of them.
Though the only het LI for women that seems like catering (IMO) is Cullen, because he's been a fan favorite since Origins, his romance is ripe for a mage Inquisitor (which, people loooooove their mages...) and his romance is very much vanilla with a lil spice (so he's saved from the Sebastian guillotine, where his chaste romance was a dealbreaker for many. And it was explicitly chaste, whereas with Solas or Josie it's left up to headcanon). Blackwall tho?? Have you seen the polls? Poor man gets utterly decimated every time. The only male LIs that get less love from women are Sebastian and Iron Bull.
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FireAndBlood
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
Prime Posts: 454
Prime Likes: 350
Posts: 584 Likes: 1,664
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Post by FireAndBlood on May 1, 2020 14:23:02 GMT
Josephine fits right into that "cutesy ingénue" archetype Bioware seems to love so much I hope they never stop, though having male versions of that archtype would be nice too. Alistair?
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Post by Gwydden on May 1, 2020 17:18:56 GMT
But I think another interesting discussion would be that is it a good method NOT to specifically try and cater to different players with romances? I'm guessing you weren't happy with m/m options in DA:I? Josephine never struck me as an ingenue. Her romance is sweet but I see her as an experienced politician, a bit of a workaholic, very responsible where her family and job are concerned, someone who loves the sea and wants to sail beyond the borders of the known world. Leliana says she's innocent in love but I only took this to mean she's never been in love before lol, not a comment on anything else. This is what I got from talking to her, anyway. And Cassandra's no-nonsense attitude and faith, and Sera's goofy childishness and earnestness.... I mean, they're all very different people. Not all of them are going to appeal to everyone, but I'm surprised that some people don't like even one of them. I don't like any of them, no. As characters they're fine, but I don't care for them as love interests. Josephine is utterly oblivious to the Inquisitor hitting on her for a good while. Cassandra pretends not to notice and, when she finally acknowledges it, seems more uncomfortable than anything. Having to badger someone to an extent I'd find inappropriate in RL to get such a lukewarm response is not what I'd call compelling. I suspect that, regardless of their looks, Cassandra and Josephine's controversial reception is largely because of how desexualized they are. I'm not talking about chainmail bikinis and graphic sex scenes, but about how they show little to no interest in that arena, for the Inquisitor specifically or in general. I dislike the "cutesy ingenue" archetype, like I said, but I can see how ME1 Liara, the virginal, socially awkward alien babe who wants to jump the PC's bones, appeals to other guys. Cassandra is no fun at all—I realize it's supposed to be endearing, but a grown ass woman being that embarrassed of her hobbies is not a good look either—and Josephine is, well, a Disney princess. Much as I like The Little Mermaid, straight men are not the target audience for Disney princesses. And Ariel was never this bland. Solas is blatant catering. A powerful, morally compromised ancient being who is madly in love with the mortal protagonist? That's paranormal romance 101. Blackwall is more of an edge case, hence why I set him apart, but just because he missed the mark doesn't mean he wasn't supposed to be a hit. A knight in shining armor with a dark secret? I could see it. He's a bit like an older Alistair, particularly with the whole "knight and his lady" dynamic. Honestly, I think he's unpopular partially because he gets outshined by PR101 Solas and Generic Pretty Boy Cullen and because the middle aged lumberjack look is not in. Shave him and his sex appeal goes up a notch. Ironically, I think he's my favorite romance in DA:I. He and the female Inquisitor have a flirty chemistry that's entirely absent from the Cassandra and Josephine romances. I kinda regret not going for Dorian in my one complete DA:I playthrough; at least he's fun to be around. But Cassandra was kinda hot, even if she was a killjoy and judgmental religious fanatic
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Post by alanc9 on May 1, 2020 18:05:53 GMT
Note that the Solas romance was a late addition; his character was already set before it was added. Although that's not really a problem for the analysis, since Bio always works that way, apparently.
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Post by pessimistpanda on May 1, 2020 18:08:47 GMT
I just can't stand talking to Blackwall, regardless of how he looks. I find his personality and story so incredibly boring. Plus, I'm only ever going to play as a dude, so I'm never going to see this "fun, flirty" side he supposedly has. Dorian and Iron Bull were fine. Of the two I vastly prefer Dorian. I do not like that if I romance Iron Bull, the game straight up tells me that I'm a total bottom sub who needs to be dominated. Aside from the fact that the whole "big strong man = top, smaller man = bottom" assumption is just a played-out stereotype, the game is also assuming very personal things about my character that I get little to no say in.
In terms of what I want out of M/M love interests, Anders in DA2 was pretty much perfect. I like that his romance is sincere and very emotional, plus healer/rebel/animal lover is just... the perfect trifecta of archetypes that push my buttons. I doubt I'll ever see a romance option ever again that appeals to me as much as Anders, although Zevran and Reyes are ties for a close second place.
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Post by witchcocktor on May 1, 2020 19:07:09 GMT
But I think another interesting discussion would be that is it a good method NOT to specifically try and cater to different players with romances? I'm guessing you weren't happy with m/m options in DA:I? You have one option whose relationship with you eventually boils down to just sex and the other option has commitment issues and can't wait to get as far away from you as possible. But in all seriousness, the options were fine. But just fine. I feel like most people (who aren't straight/bi women) will probably agree that the options they have were just fine, nothing spectacular.
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Post by vertigomez on May 1, 2020 19:42:47 GMT
I like the idea of Blackwall's romance - this earthy sad guy with a redemption arc, trying to do better - but I just can't get over the aforementioned "knight and lady" dynamic. I reeeaally dislike being on the receiving end of all those miladys. Probably why Alistair and Cullen and Sebastian are a nope for me, too. When it comes to male romances, I'm pretty much only interested in characters like Garrus and Bull... guys who are basically your best friend whom you also have sex with. And you just enjoy each other's company and they don't treat you like some other species (even if you technically are, lol) who they have to act radically different around because you're a ~lady~.
But that's just me. Everybody has different interests and dynamics that appeal to them. For my part, I thought Sera and Josie were absolutely stellar 😍 with Bull and Dorian close behind, then Cass, then Cullen, Blackwall, and Solas who all hit romance notes that I just don't gel with. Particularly the ancient god-king who thinks you - yes, you! - are Special and Not Like Other Elves. That reads as 'condescending grandpa' to me.
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Post by witchcocktor on May 1, 2020 20:05:41 GMT
I would love to hear Blackwall call me '' m'lord ''
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Post by vertigomez on May 1, 2020 20:23:04 GMT
I would love to hear Blackwall call me '' m'lord '' Different strokes for different folks. I think him calling a romanced male Inquisitor "m'lord" would be a totally different (and welcome) dynamic. I would love to see that in a m/m romance (even though I'm not the target audience; not trying to come across like my opinion matters more here lol). Similar to how I'm just fine with Josephine calling a female Inquisitor "my lady" in her romance but I cringe when Blackwall or Cullen do the same. Dynamic just feels different.
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Post by witchcocktor on May 1, 2020 20:40:52 GMT
I would love to hear Blackwall call me '' m'lord '' Different strokes for different folks. I think him calling a romanced male Inquisitor "m'lord" would be a totally different (and welcome) dynamic. I would love to see that in a m/m romance (even though I'm not the target audience; not trying to come across like my opinion matters more here lol). Similar to how I'm just fine with Josephine calling a female Inquisitor "my lady" in her romance but I cringe when Blackwall or Cullen do the same. Dynamic just feels different. I mean, straight relationship tropes (with obvious gender roles) that we've seen a million times repeated in different media will often seem a bit more spicy and digestible when it's placed on a gay relationship instead. I feel like a lot of gay and bi folk will probably relate to this lol.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 1, 2020 20:57:42 GMT
I hope they never stop, though having male versions of that archtype would be nice too. Alistair? Yeah, he's the last one that would fit that but that was over a decade ago now so time for more.
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Post by vertigomez on May 1, 2020 21:29:16 GMT
Yeah, he's the last one that would fit that but that was over a decade ago now so time for more. It is a bit weird that we repeatedly have these "uwu cute and sheltered~" female LIs in Bioware games (as far back as Aerie..... Jesus Christ, Aerie ) but Alistair's probably the only guy who.. sort of.. fits that description. Even Cullen's got all kinds of trauma and angst and addiction going on (even if he handles it well). Probably helps that Alistair was like 20 years old. Didn't prevent him from being a romantic juggernaut though!
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Post by Kabraxal on May 1, 2020 22:03:48 GMT
But I think another interesting discussion would be that is it a good method NOT to specifically try and cater to different players with romances? I'm guessing you weren't happy with m/m options in DA:I? Josephine never struck me as an ingenue. Her romance is sweet but I see her as an experienced politician, a bit of a workaholic, very responsible where her family and job are concerned, someone who loves the sea and wants to sail beyond the borders of the known world. Leliana says she's innocent in love but I only took this to mean she's never been in love before lol, not a comment on anything else. This is what I got from talking to her, anyway. And Cassandra's no-nonsense attitude and faith, and Sera's goofy childishness and earnestness.... I mean, they're all very different people. Not all of them are going to appeal to everyone, but I'm surprised that some people don't like even one of them. I don't like any of them, no. As characters they're fine, but I don't care for them as love interests. Josephine is utterly oblivious to the Inquisitor hitting on her for a good while. Cassandra pretends not to notice and, when she finally acknowledges it, seems more uncomfortable than anything. Having to badger someone to an extent I'd find inappropriate in RL to get such a lukewarm response is not what I'd call compelling. I suspect that, regardless of their looks, Cassandra and Josephine's controversial reception is largely because of how desexualized they are. I'm not talking about chainmail bikinis and graphic sex scenes, but about how they show little to no interest in that arena, for the Inquisitor specifically or in general. I dislike the "cutesy ingenue" archetype, like I said, but I can see how ME1 Liara, the virginal, socially awkward alien babe who wants to jump the PC's bones, appeals to other guys. Cassandra is no fun at all—I realize it's supposed to be endearing, but a grown ass woman being that embarrassed of her hobbies is not a good look either—and Josephine is, well, a Disney princess. Much as I like The Little Mermaid, straight men are not the target audience for Disney princesses. And Ariel was never this bland. Solas is blatant catering. A powerful, morally compromised ancient being who is madly in love with the mortal protagonist? That's paranormal romance 101. Blackwall is more of an edge case, hence why I set him apart, but just because he missed the mark doesn't mean he wasn't supposed to be a hit. A knight in shining armor with a dark secret? I could see it. He's a bit like an older Alistair, particularly with the whole "knight and his lady" dynamic. Honestly, I think he's unpopular partially because he gets outshined by PR101 Solas and Generic Pretty Boy Cullen and because the middle aged lumberjack look is not in. Shave him and his sex appeal goes up a notch. Ironically, I think he's my favorite romance in DA:I. He and the female Inquisitor have a flirty chemistry that's entirely absent from the Cassandra and Josephine romances. I kinda regret not going for Dorian in my one complete DA:I playthrough; at least he's fun to be around. But Cassandra was kinda hot, even if she was a killjoy and judgmental religious fanatic Plenty of “grown ass women” have guilty pleasures... and plenty of straight men are attracted to disney princesses... where are you even coming from with this “analysis”? Honestly, it seems you couch some extreme biases with bloated phrases and academic buzz words to attempt to hide those biases.
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Post by Nightscrawl on May 1, 2020 22:06:41 GMT
She's doesn't really have any sort of look on her face here I don't agree that Harding is "sadistic" but that is certainly a look of satisfaction. That said, I've seen the scene numerous times and don't think that it comes from her enjoying the act of killing, which is what would make it sadistic. To me, she is pleased with her own skill in combat and also that she is able to protect the peasants from the chaos.
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Post by Gwydden on May 2, 2020 1:34:27 GMT
Plenty of “grown ass women” have guilty pleasures... and plenty of straight men are attracted to disney princesses... where are you even coming from with this “analysis”? Honestly, it seems you couch some extreme biases with bloated phrases and academic buzz words to attempt to hide those biases. Nothing I said goes against your first two points. I am flattered that you'd refer to my rambling ruminations as an "analysis"; I don't recall characterizing them as such. As for "academic buzzwords," I'm sure I don't know what you mean. I have no intention to hide my biases. I thought I had been pretty clear about them. I said I didn't like Cassandra and Josephine as love interests and explained why. My other, broader point, was that they are not conventionally appealing to straight men as a group in the same way m/f love interests in previous games have usually been, or how Cullen and Solas are to straight women in DA:I. That observation was not a call to action or even a criticism. I'm just curious as to why, exactly, that is and how it came to be so. My "analysis" was just pondering that and wondering what others might think. If you think I'm trying to provide a "scientific" explanation for why Cassandra and Josephine have "objectively" "inferior" romances, or even arguing for less love interests like them in the future, that is not at all the case. Individual preference is distinct from general trends: Tali is pretty conventional in terms of what straight men are "supposed" to like, but I don't care for her; Ashley is not especially popular, as far as I know, but I like her romance in ME1 quite a bit. My apologies for all the scare quotes. I am trying to prevent further miscommunication.
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Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
LameZombieHunt
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Post by necrowaif on May 2, 2020 8:07:50 GMT
Having just watched A Crap Guide to Goblins, I feel obligated to bring this up in light of the earlier discussion around goblins. I feel no remorse.
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