dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
Prime Posts: 77
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Post by dmc1001 on Sept 24, 2020 17:03:25 GMT
True. But Mac Walters is still there and he helped conceive a lot of these characters. And I know I've given Mac a lot of shit, because he fucked up and he knows he fucked up, he has low key admitted it, but he is an excellent character writer. At least, from what I've seen of him, so far. Maybe they were flukes, but I doubt it. I do believe that, at least as a character writer supervisor/lead, he will do a good job. If the belief is that all of Bioware's writers are absolute shit and can't write for shit, then Bioware's fucked regardless. At which point, we'd be arguing in favour of EA closing Bioware down, lest they start looking like modern day J.K. Rowling. I'm not saying they can't write. That's a separate issue from what I was bringing up. I meant they might not be able to keep the characters true to form, so to speak. Even little differences start to become noticeable. Different writers have different styles and may perceive characters in a different way. Lending from books, we have some highly successful authors out there. Sometimes they become so prolific that they can't keep up with the demand. They make use of ghostwriters. The style is clearly different. Whether or not they're any good isn't the point. The point is that their style has differences, sometimes large and sometimes minute.
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dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
Prime Posts: 77
Posts: 9,942 Likes: 17,687
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Post by dmc1001 on Sept 24, 2020 17:08:55 GMT
Gotcha. I'm trying to remember a true RPG. Neverwinter Nights? I can't remember, though I do know at the time it came out I was blown away with how interesting it was. It's not realistic to expect video games to do what a dungeon master can. Yeah, Neverwinter or even the Baldur's Gate games. BioWare started the shift towards the more action style games with Jade Empire which would have been between Mass Effect and Neverwinter. A more modern game would be something like the Pillars of Eternity by Obsidian. I saw in another post your comment about voice acting impacting what devs can do, just for cost reasons alone. It took me a long time to accept DAO because I couldn't deal with lack of voice on the part of the warden. I've recently come to see it as a great game. Neverwinter Nights almost certainly didn't have voice actors. I can't remember for sure and I now what to go back and play it if it'll run on Windows 10. Anyway, yes, cost cuts into things. We either get the great storytelling and better choices of outcome in an unvoiced game or we spend the money on actors. Now that I've come around to DAO again, I'm realizing I could do without the voices.
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Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Sept 24, 2020 17:09:07 GMT
True. But Mac Walters is still there and he helped conceive a lot of these characters. And I know I've given Mac a lot of shit, because he fucked up and he knows he fucked up, he has low key admitted it, but he is an excellent character writer. At least, from what I've seen of him, so far. Maybe they were flukes, but I doubt it. I do believe that, at least as a character writer supervisor/lead, he will do a good job. If the belief is that all of Bioware's writers are absolute shit and can't write for shit, then Bioware's fucked regardless. At which point, we'd be arguing in favour of EA closing Bioware down, lest they start looking like modern day J.K. Rowling. I'm not saying they can't write. That's a separate issue from what I was bringing up. I meant they might not be able to keep the characters true to form, so to speak. Even little differences start to become noticeable. Different writers have different styles and may perceive characters in a different way. Lending from books, we have some highly successful authors out there. Sometimes they become so prolific that they can't keep up with the demand. They make use of ghostwriters. The style is clearly different. Whether or not they're any good isn't the point. The point is that their style has differences, sometimes large and sometimes minute. So like what happened with The Wheel of Time book series, when Robert Jordan passed away Brandon Sanderson took over the writing and even though it was close I could notice small differences.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Sept 24, 2020 17:12:08 GMT
I'm not saying they can't write. That's a separate issue from what I was bringing up. I meant they might not be able to keep the characters true to form, so to speak. Even little differences start to become noticeable. Different writers have different styles and may perceive characters in a different way. It depends how much different they are. It can come down to growth, but being inconsistent with the lore, like any Quarian, not just Tali, taking off their masks on the regular would be bad. Or Kaidan going off to celebrate with a Turian biotic teacher from Jump Zero. Not the dead one, of course, but you'd assume Kaidan would be a little predisposed toward Turian biotics. That would be a glaring mistake, but pretty hard a situation to create. As for Liara's "cameo" in ME:A, I don't know what's worse? that they obviously shoe horned her in, with her "sociopath" personality from base ME2, or Ali Hillis just seeing how bad it sounded and just phoning it in?
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dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
Prime Posts: 77
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Post by dmc1001 on Sept 24, 2020 17:27:18 GMT
I'm not saying they can't write. That's a separate issue from what I was bringing up. I meant they might not be able to keep the characters true to form, so to speak. Even little differences start to become noticeable. Different writers have different styles and may perceive characters in a different way. It depends how much different they are. It can come down to growth, but being inconsistent with the lore, like any Quarian, not just Tali, taking off their masks on the regular would be bad. Or Kaidan going off to celebrate with a Turian biotic teacher from Jump Zero. Not the dead one, of course, but you'd assume Kaidan would be a little predisposed toward Turian biotics. That would be a glaring mistake, but pretty hard a situation to create. As for Liara's "cameo" in ME:A, I don't know what's worse? that they obviously shoe horned her in, with her "sociopath" personality from base ME2, or Ali Hillis just seeing how bad it sounded and just phoning it in? Growth? That's one of those things I thought could work for Ryder in a potential MEA2. However, I think you previously addressed it by saying it might be too late for that since high interest in the game probably isn't there. I agree, even though I want it. I can pinpoint specifics on differences. I'm not necessarily even thinking of glaring changes like you mention. I'm thinking more in the way the respond to things, the words they say. Would a new VA even get the inflections right, regardless of written dialogue? I don't know. I'm leery of the whole idea. I fell in love with the MET as is (except for a few mods). I don't want it redone as someone else sees it. The only changes I would make are to restore cut content (which, btw, would allow for a BroShep/Kaidan romance since the voice acting is entirely present in ME1 due to both Hale and Sbarge recording exactly the same dialogue throughout the whole game) and, ideally, toss out Starbrat - though the last isn't as necessary for me, just a perk. The less Liara the better. Her voice appearing in MEA for no legitimate reason is annoying. Some datapads would have been far better. That would have even better to make it more inclusive of other characters from the MET. That said, it wasn't necessary to refer to anything from the MET beyond allusions to accelerating plans so they could avoid the Reapers. None of the events from the MET are otherwise that relevant.
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Post by Phantom on Sept 24, 2020 17:47:16 GMT
It depends how much different they are. It can come down to growth, but being inconsistent with the lore, like any Quarian, not just Tali, taking off their masks on the regular would be bad. Or Kaidan going off to celebrate with a Turian biotic teacher from Jump Zero. Not the dead one, of course, but you'd assume Kaidan would be a little predisposed toward Turian biotics. That would be a glaring mistake, but pretty hard a situation to create. As for Liara's "cameo" in ME:A, I don't know what's worse? that they obviously shoe horned her in, with her "sociopath" personality from base ME2, or Ali Hillis just seeing how bad it sounded and just phoning it in? Growth? That's one of those things I thought could work for Ryder in a potential MEA2. However, I think you previously addressed it by saying it might be too late for that since high interest in the game probably isn't there. I agree, even though I want it. I can pinpoint specifics on differences. I'm not necessarily even thinking of glaring changes like you mention. I'm thinking more in the way the respond to things, the words they say. Would a new VA even get the inflections right, regardless of written dialogue? I don't know. I'm leery of the whole idea. I fell in love with the MET as is (except for a few mods). I don't want it redone as someone else sees it. The only changes I would make are to restore cut content (which, btw, would allow for a BroShep/Kaidan romance since the voice acting is entirely present in ME1 due to both Hale and Sbarge recording exactly the same dialogue throughout the whole game) and, ideally, toss out Starbrat - though the last isn't as necessary for me, just a perk. The less Liara the better. Her voice appearing in MEA for no legitimate reason is annoying. Some datapads would have been far better. That would have even better to make it more inclusive of other characters from the MET. That said, it wasn't necessary to refer to anything from the MET beyond allusions to accelerating plans so they could avoid the Reapers. None of the events from the MET are otherwise that relevant. but we have to deal with the Liaramancer because they love Liara that much. They will want her back that much
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dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
Prime Posts: 77
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Post by dmc1001 on Sept 24, 2020 17:53:40 GMT
but we have to deal with the Liaramancer because they love Liara that much. They will want her back that much I was pissed when I got ninjamanced by Liara in ME1 one time. Prior to mods, I cheated on her ASAP when Kaidan became available in ME3. She didn't like it but got over it.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Sept 24, 2020 17:57:51 GMT
Growth? That's one of those things I thought could work for Ryder in a potential MEA2 That depends on whether the public is interested enough in Ryder to care about his growth, or if they'll groan and tune out the moment they see his return. You'd have to take it in a per individual basis, but the prospects don't look that good. However, I think you previously addressed it by saying it might be too late for that since high interest in the game probably isn't there. I agree, even though I want it. Oh, well, there you go. I can pinpoint specifics on differences. I'm not necessarily even thinking of glaring changes like you mention. I'm thinking more in the way the respond to things, the words they say I'd argue that a lot of the characters, especially the ME2 ones, aren't explored enough to have that set personalities, as long as they don't go back on previously established traits, like Jack saying she's against "brainwashing" the Geth and be in favour of brainwashing anyone in a sequel. Vocabulary, expressions etc. could be part of further exploring these characters. Anything that isn't directly contradicting, I could follow with. Would a new VA even get the inflections right, regardless of written dialogue? I don't know. I'm leery of the whole idea You would have a director, though. And maybe have the actors play the previous games, or at least watch youtube videos of the characters they are supposed to portray to get a feel of the characters. Or even have a chat with one of the original VAs, provided they are still alive, in order to get a better grasp of the character. The only changes I would make are to restore cut content There's a whole fucking lot of cut content for the original games. Miranda and Jack were both, at one point, squadmates in ME3. Which is why Jack got such a drastic redesign, that nobody else got, for that game. There's even artwork with her and her new look on the Normandy's bridge. ideally, toss out Starbrat - though the last isn't as necessary for me, just a perk. That's a 30% improvement right there, for ME3. No more dreams, no more of that stupid "you can't save me" conversation and the forced symbolism of that whole scene. I mean, come on, I'm not that stupid, don't hammer it like that, Bioware. The less Liara the better. Her voice appearing in MEA for no legitimate reason is annoying. Some datapads would have been far better. That would have even better to make it more inclusive of other characters from the MET Well, the other characters apparently aren't the ME poster child, it seems. So fuck us for wanting something, or someone else. That said, it wasn't necessary to refer to anything from the MET beyond allusions to accelerating plans so they could avoid the Reapers. None of the events from the MET are otherwise that relevant. But what about Liara, then? Is it even a ME if Liara isn't in it?
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Post by alanc9 on Sept 24, 2020 17:58:33 GMT
The less Liara the better. Her voice appearing in MEA for no legitimate reason is annoying. Some datapads would have been far better. That would have even better to make it more inclusive of other characters from the MET. That said, it wasn't necessary to refer to anything from the MET beyond allusions to accelerating plans so they could avoid the Reapers. None of the events from the MET are otherwise that relevant. I don't quite follow this. Which other MET character would be more useful when the plot point in question is what the AI leadership knew about the Reapers and the of the MW. Hostility to Liara isn't a compelling argument for not giving her the assignment. Do you have a better candidate?
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Post by alanc9 on Sept 24, 2020 18:04:10 GMT
Growth? That's one of those things I thought could work for Ryder in a potential MEA2 That depends on whether the public is interested enough in Ryder to care about his growth, or if they'll groan and tune out the moment they see his return. You'd have to take it in a per individual basis, but the prospects don't look that good. I was satisfied with the analysis of polling data from this board we did a while back, which made it look highly likely that Ryder was dragging the MEA setting down. Although generalizing from the tastes of posters here to the majority of gamers isn't typically a sound procedure. In any case, EA has people whose job it is to research this stuff. I'm sure they presented their conclusions long ago.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Sept 24, 2020 18:12:58 GMT
In any case, EA has people whose job it is to research this stuff. I'm sure they presented their conclusions long ago. Considering that support was shut down rather quickly and EA had put ME on ice, I don't know if they were gathering data or they even kept what data they had at the time. If it's just engagement on online forums and discussion boards, or user/critic reviews, I'm pretty sure they could recover that data from archives etc, but oof. I would not envy the people that would have to sort all that data back up. That's a nightmare.
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Post by Phantom on Sept 24, 2020 18:20:28 GMT
but we have to deal with the Liaramancer because they love Liara that much. They will want her back that much I was pissed when I got ninjamanced by Liara in ME1 one time. Prior to mods, I cheated on her ASAP when Kaidan became available in ME3. She didn't like it but got over it. Kaiden is always a good choice for a Love Interest. Just curious, how would you feel if the bad guys clone Kaiden and make them work for them?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 24, 2020 18:44:19 GMT
I was pissed when I got ninjamanced by Liara in ME1 one time. Prior to mods, I cheated on her ASAP when Kaidan became available in ME3. She didn't like it but got over it. Kaiden is always a good choice for a Love Interest. Just curious, how would you feel if the bad guys clone Kaiden and make them work for them? Why would that matter? The clone isn't Kaidan, even if they are genetically the same.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 24, 2020 18:45:42 GMT
One small thing I would like them to add in the trilogy remaster is in ME2 or ME3 there is a new news story talking about the Andromeda Initiative. Just to better link the games together.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Sept 24, 2020 18:48:38 GMT
but we have to deal with the Liaramancer because they love Liara that much. They will want her back that much I was pissed when I got ninjamanced by Liara in ME1 one time. Prior to mods, I cheated on her ASAP when Kaidan became available in ME3. She didn't like it but got over it. You should always get Liara last in ME1. That way, you won't get ninjamanced.
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Post by themikefest on Sept 24, 2020 18:48:48 GMT
But what about Liara, then? Is it even a ME if Liara isn't in it? It is. Look at ME2. The player doesn't have to see her in Illium and play the broker dlc. There you go. ME without t'soni.
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Post by Phantom on Sept 24, 2020 19:16:03 GMT
Kaiden is always a good choice for a Love Interest. Just curious, how would you feel if the bad guys clone Kaiden and make them work for them? Why would that matter? The clone isn't Kaidan, even if they are genetically the same. Well Mild 4th breaking is one reason to screw with the player to forced to fight clones of Heroes of MET but if any clones shouldn't be the same person that they are clone from. Also Hanako, If there will be New Player character that deals with the connection between ME:A and ME:T for a game or two. Well IF they went to discovering the truth of the Mysterious Benefactor, As long as it is not Cerberus as the Mysterious Benefactor, I am alright.
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N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: ShinobiKillfist
Posts: 2,887 Likes: 3,546
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Post by ahglock on Sept 24, 2020 20:22:09 GMT
One small thing I would like them to add in the trilogy remaster is in ME2 or ME3 there is a new news story talking about the Andromeda Initiative. Just to better link the games together. I'm sort of on the opposite opinion of this. I think they should double down and reemphasize the secret nature of the project. Though a Thane DLC where he goes around and assassinates everyone who knows about the project while deleting the data before the Reapers show up would be pretty sweet.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Sept 24, 2020 20:46:22 GMT
It is. Look at ME2. The player doesn't have to see her in Illium and play the broker dlc. There you go. ME without t'soni. Is this why, I wonder, I keep coming across a lot of ME1 purists, that condemn everything ME2, in spite of ME2 working really well? It's considered blasphemy to have a ME without Liara.
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Post by themikefest on Sept 24, 2020 21:09:30 GMT
It is. Look at ME2. The player doesn't have to see her in Illium and play the broker dlc. There you go. ME without t'soni. Is this why, I wonder, I keep coming across a lot of ME1 purists, that condemn everything ME2, in spite of ME2 working really well? It's considered blasphemy to have a ME without Liara. Let me add a couple more things. If a player romances A/K, it will be one of them telling Shepard Moreau won't get to an escape pod. If not, the asari will tell Shepard. Another thing is don't talk with Taylor. He will mention the asari by name when first meeting him. I believe TIM will as well when first talking with him. A player can lessen the presence of the asari throughout the trilogy. Rescue her at the last minute in ME1. Don't talk to her. In ME2, if romancing A/K, she won't exist as I pointed out above. In ME3, don't talk to her outside of cutscenes forcing the issue. After Thessia, go straight to the galaxy map to head to your next destination to avoid hearing all the dialogue from characters mentioning her name because of what happened to her homeworld.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 24, 2020 21:27:47 GMT
One small thing I would like them to add in the trilogy remaster is in ME2 or ME3 there is a new news story talking about the Andromeda Initiative. Just to better link the games together. I'm sort of on the opposite opinion of this. I think they should double down and reemphasize the secret nature of the project. Though a Thane DLC where he goes around and assassinates everyone who knows about the project while deleting the data before the Reapers show up would be pretty sweet. But it wasn’t a secret project.
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N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: ShinobiKillfist
Posts: 2,887 Likes: 3,546
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Post by ahglock on Sept 24, 2020 21:36:15 GMT
I'm sort of on the opposite opinion of this. I think they should double down and reemphasize the secret nature of the project. Though a Thane DLC where he goes around and assassinates everyone who knows about the project while deleting the data before the Reapers show up would be pretty sweet. But it wasn’t a secret project. They've called it one at parts in the game. And its beyond asinine for it not to be with the reapers coming.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 24, 2020 21:38:25 GMT
But it wasn’t a secret project. They've called it one at parts in the game. And its beyond asinine for it not to be with the reapers coming. Where did they call it secret? The real reason the MB supported it is the only secret part I can recall. I mean the Arks were docked next to Earth for goodness’s sake.
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N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: ShinobiKillfist
Posts: 2,887 Likes: 3,546
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by ahglock on Sept 24, 2020 22:03:10 GMT
They've called it one at parts in the game. And its beyond asinine for it not to be with the reapers coming. Where did they call it secret? The real reason the MB supported it is the only secret part I can recall. I mean the Arks were docked next to Earth for goodness’s sake. In places where people recount how they joined the initiative they frequently describe it as being brought into this secret project.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 24, 2020 22:36:38 GMT
Where did they call it secret? The real reason the MB supported it is the only secret part I can recall. I mean the Arks were docked next to Earth for goodness’s sake. In places where people recount how they joined the initiative they frequently describe it as being brought into this secret project. Specific examples? Again, all the ones I recall had it be very open.
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