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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
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Post by dmc1001 on Sept 29, 2020 1:55:21 GMT
And sure, Liara could have ben replaced by Unknown Prothean Expert #26, or they could have contrived a reason to use a different known character. What's the advantage of doing so, for anyone who doesn't hate Liara because reasons? You're actually missing the point entirely. Why is a Prothean expert needed? What does a Prothean expert bring to the table? Liara found out about the Reapers at the same time as the Normandy crew. She was no more or less qualified than anything to speak on the subject. Basically the same with the Protheans because pretty much everything she knew came from... Shepard.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Oct 6, 2020 14:28:57 GMT
If you weren't interested in when and what the AI leadership knew about the Reapers, that's fine. But judging from prerelease forum chatter, a lot of players were interested in this question. The Benefactor is The Illusive Woman. And let's say it's Illusive Man's second in command that he dejected from the company in order to maintain ownership of it, who thusly had a bounty on her head by all Citadel services, and decided she could fulfil her plan in MEA. I mean, the files specifically refer to her as "a woman" (yes, I know she appears as a fake anonymous female at some point, but this seems pretty specific) and given just how hard MEA1 was crafted from ME1 as a template you can easily assume what they were really doing was plant the seeds for MEA2 to be just as templated off of ME2, and then a final chapter that resolves the Scourge problem in a mirror to the Reapers. We don't need to sit here and guess. Everything followed a template in that damn game. Everything except the Angara subplot.
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Post by alanc9 on Oct 6, 2020 15:43:48 GMT
And sure, Liara could have ben replaced by Unknown Prothean Expert #26, or they could have contrived a reason to use a different known character. What's the advantage of doing so, for anyone who doesn't hate Liara because reasons? You're actually missing the point entirely. Why is a Prothean expert needed? What does a Prothean expert bring to the table? Liara found out about the Reapers at the same time as the Normandy crew. She was no more or less qualified than anything to speak on the subject. Basically the same with the Protheans because pretty much everything she knew came from... Shepard. *shrugs* I couldn't remember the conversation. I'm not as traumatized by hearing Liara again as some of you were. I'm still not seeing a problem.
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dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
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Post by dmc1001 on Oct 6, 2020 17:17:41 GMT
You're actually missing the point entirely. Why is a Prothean expert needed? What does a Prothean expert bring to the table? Liara found out about the Reapers at the same time as the Normandy crew. She was no more or less qualified than anything to speak on the subject. Basically the same with the Protheans because pretty much everything she knew came from... Shepard. *shrugs* I couldn't remember the conversation. I'm not as traumatized by hearing Liara again as some of you were. I'm still not seeing a problem. I just don't like Liara, which is neither here nor there. I thought she brought nothing to the table. Combine that with her subpar voice acting and she was poorly utilized. Honestly, even TIM would have been a better option because he was fully aware of the Reapers and wanted humanity to live.
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Post by AnDromedary on Oct 6, 2020 17:39:13 GMT
1) I really like Alli Hillis' voice acting and strongly disagree that it's subpar. 2) In terms of the plot, I think it did make sense to go after Liara. Why do we need a prothean expert? Because given that Saren and Benezia learned new info about the Conduit clearly from the prothean beacon on Eden Prime, there is a connection there. Why does it make sense to go after Liara instead of anyone else? Because she is the daughter of Benezia who is involved in the whole thing. Maybe this daughter can provide useful intel or - at the very least - it is important to find out if she may even be working for her mother and the other side in which case she needs to be confronted about that and/or arrested. It's been a couple of years since I last played ME1 so I don't quite remember how clearly that second reasoning is spelled out by Udina when he tells you about her but I always had that implication in the back of my mind and I never questioned that there was a good reason to go check her out. 3) What does she bring to the table: Well, she is the one who - due to her extensive research on the protheans - recognizes that it's Ilos in Shepard's beacon visions. Without that one, we'd have been stuck, not knowing where to go.
So yea, i get that some people don't like Liara for some reason but IMO her role in the story is rather well set up at least in ME1 (the Shadow Broker stuff is a little different and IMO ME2 is where her character gets a bit weird but I did like where she ended up in ME3 nonetheless).
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Post by themikefest on Oct 6, 2020 18:53:57 GMT
Ah yes, the asari called t'soni. Who was the one that recommended her for Alec to get a hold of? What information did she have no one else had that would be of interest to Alec? Why did she send a message to him, after not corresponding with each other for years, telling him the Milky Way won't be the same as when he left? That message means nothing since he will never return. And how did she know his personal terminal number to send the message? Did the qec yellow pages guy in London give it to her? It would make sense since he was able to get a hold of jack for Shepard, without knowing which Jack Shepard was asking for. What did she add in the trilogy? As far as being a squadmate, nothing. The trilogy proves that. In ME1, Saren is able to find Ilos without the asari. If he can do that, than what reason is there to have t'soni? ME2 she's in the broker dlc. Apparently it's ok to steal armor from dead bodies and display it like it's some trophy/prize? She made no attempt to inform anyone Shepard's body is in the hands of Cerberus yet she calls Shepard a friend. I would be curious what her answers would be if Shepard was given the option to ask her about those things. If I had to guess, the reason was because Bioware didn't want any friction between Shepard and the alien. Anyways, here's my thoughts on the broker dlc. ME3 she's on Mars. If she discovered plans, then why didn't she download them and send a copy to Hackett? It's because she never discovered them. She only found clues that led her to Mars. Why can't she be sent to Hackett to help with the device/crucible? One thing that doesn't make sense is the player can send A/K to Hackett. What could they do that the asari couldn't do? She shows up after the first two dreams for no reason. Apparently she isn't the prothean expert she thinks she is after Javik told her she didn't study enough. Nice one Javik the Great. Overall the character would have been better as an advisor offering any information about the protheans, at least in ME1. Since Shepard has the cipher, there would be no reason to have t'soni show up in ME2/3. Or at least have t'soni take the role of Shiala.
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Post by RedCaesar97 on Oct 6, 2020 20:07:46 GMT
Ah yes, the asari called t'soni ... What did she add in the trilogy? As far as being a squadmate, nothing. From a gameplay/combat perspective, I consider Liara to be the most useful squadmate in ME1, and the most useful squadmate for non-tech Shepard in ME3. I am not even going to wade in to the debate about her usefulness from a story standpoint.
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Post by AnDromedary on Oct 6, 2020 20:11:31 GMT
I am not even going to wade in to the debate about her usefulness from a story standpoint. A wise man, this one.
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Post by themikefest on Oct 6, 2020 20:58:55 GMT
Ah yes, the asari called t'soni ... What did she add in the trilogy? As far as being a squadmate, nothing. From a gameplay/combat perspective, I consider Liara to be the most useful squadmate in ME1, and the most useful squadmate for non-tech Shepard in ME3. I am not even going to wade in to the debate about her usefulness from a story standpoint. I don't agree. The trilogy proves it. When seeing her the first time, she says she must have panicked hitting the wrong button trapping herself. Then she turns chicken when facing the krogan. Those are two traits you wouldn't want a squadmate having. Then on Ilos she wants to stick around to study the achives instead of stopping Saren. In ME2. during the broker dlc, she turns into a scaredy-cat when chasing Vasir. After the broker is killed, she cries like a baby. Those are traits that you wouldn't want a squadmate having. In ME3, on Mars, she mentions something about wasting time scurrying around trying to stop the reapers. That's not good having negative thoughts. it brings morale down. Then when heading to Thessia, she says she can't be callous. Why wasn't there an option to go back to replace her with a squadmate who can be callous? She lives up to that by standing still with her tentacles up her fifth-point-of-contact when Leng runs to her. For someone who is suppose to be this all powerful, strong useful type squadmate, she ended up looking like a pathetic little piece of crap.
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Post by RedCaesar97 on Oct 6, 2020 22:41:01 GMT
From a gameplay/combat perspective, I consider Liara to be the most useful squadmate in ME1, and the most useful squadmate for non-tech Shepard in ME3. I am not even going to wade in to the debate about her usefulness from a story standpoint. I don't agree. The trilogy proves it. When seeing her the first time, she says she must have panicked hitting the wrong button trapping herself. Then she turns chicken when facing the krogan. Those are two traits you wouldn't want a squadmate having. Then on Ilos she wants to stick around to study the achives instead of stopping Saren. In ME2. during the broker dlc, she turns into a scaredy-cat when chasing Vasir. After the broker is killed, she cries like a baby. Those are traits that you wouldn't want a squadmate having. In ME3, on Mars, she mentions something about wasting time scurrying around trying to stop the reapers. That's not good having negative thoughts. it brings morale down. Then when heading to Thessia, she says she can't be callous. Why wasn't there an option to go back to replace her with a squadmate who can be callous? She lives up to that by standing still with her tentacles up her fifth-point-of-contact when Leng runs to her. For someone who is suppose to be this all powerful, strong useful type squadmate, she ended up looking like a pathetic little piece of crap. I am not sure what you are arguing here. Every point you are bringing up is about how the game is making her seem like she would be useless in combat, not actually how she performs as a squadmate when you are in a combat encounter. If I was being pretentious, I would call this "ludonarrative dissonance" or something like that, but I do not actually care. When I am actually playing the game and in combat, Liara is one of the best squadmates to have in ME1 and ME3. In all games in the trilogy, you as Shepard will be killing most things yourself. ME1 especially since your squadmates like to shoot everything except enemies (boxes, walls, Shepard's back, and other types of cover), so Squadmates are better used for their utility. ME1 Liara: her biotics work on most enemies: - Lift, Throw, and Singularity for crowd control (I never use Stasis on her) - Warp for debuff Only Kaiden comes close with Lift and Throw, plus Neural Shock for organic-only enemies (plus unlocking). ME3 Liara has Singularity for crowd-control and priming, and Warp for detonation/priming, and both have rapid cooldowns for a squadmate. Liara + Javik is incredible for non-Tech Shepards. Again, if you want to argue that in-universe Liara is a bad squadmate and should never be in combat, go right ahead. I will not argue that point. I might even agree with you on some level. If you want to argue that Liara is an actual bad squadmate when it comes to actual gameplay, I will vehemently disagree. Liara is simply one of the most useful squadmates in ME1 (with Kaiden) and ME3 when it comes to actual gameplay because of her power set and passive bonuses.
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Post by themikefest on Oct 7, 2020 0:20:05 GMT
If you want to argue that Liara is an actual bad squadmate when it comes to actual gameplay, I will vehemently disagree. That's fine. She's useful for you, but not useful for me. One reason is I can get through a situation using other squadmates faster than having t'soni.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Oct 7, 2020 2:41:46 GMT
Ah yes, the asari called t'soni. Who was the one that recommended her for Alec to get a hold of? What information did she have no one else had that would be of interest to Alec? Why did she send a message to him, after not corresponding with each other for years, telling him the Milky Way won't be the same as when he left? That message means nothing since he will never return. And how did she know his personal terminal number to send the message? Did the qec yellow pages guy in London give it to her? It would make sense since he was able to get a hold of jack for Shepard, without knowing which Jack Shepard was asking for. What did she add in the trilogy? As far as being a squadmate, nothing. The trilogy proves that. In ME1, Saren is able to find Ilos without the asari. If he can do that, than what reason is there to have t'soni? ME2 she's in the broker dlc. Apparently it's ok to steal armor from dead bodies and display it like it's some trophy/prize? She made no attempt to inform anyone Shepard's body is in the hands of Cerberus yet she calls Shepard a friend. I would be curious what her answers would be if Shepard was given the option to ask her about those things. If I had to guess, the reason was because Bioware didn't want any friction between Shepard and the alien. Anyways, here's my thoughts on the broker dlc. ME3 she's on Mars. If she discovered plans, then why didn't she download them and send a copy to Hackett? It's because she never discovered them. She only found clues that led her to Mars. Why can't she be sent to Hackett to help with the device/crucible? One thing that doesn't make sense is the player can send A/K to Hackett. What could they do that the asari couldn't do? She shows up after the first two dreams for no reason. Apparently she isn't the prothean expert she thinks she is after Javik told her she didn't study enough. Nice one Javik the Great. Overall the character would have been better as an advisor offering any information about the protheans, at least in ME1. Since Shepard has the cipher, there would be no reason to have t'soni show up in ME2/3. Or at least have t'soni take the role of Shiala. Simple answer: Liara is Bioware's Pet, and it shows. You have to go through 3 games in order to lock yourself out of her friendship/romance arc. Not to mention that you have to fail very hard in order to kill her off with a low score in your war assets.
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Post by RedCaesar97 on Oct 7, 2020 12:28:47 GMT
She's useful for you, but not useful for me. One reason is I can get through a situation using other squadmates faster than having t'soni. Fair enough.
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Post by KaiserShep on Oct 8, 2020 9:41:04 GMT
In ME2. during the broker dlc, she turns into a scaredy-cat when chasing Vasir. Was that before or after Shep was knocked unconscious? I think your memory of this DLC is fuzzy. All she did was run after that bitch the whole time.
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Post by ShadowAngel on Oct 8, 2020 11:37:25 GMT
Liara is bae, how dare anyone say she's a bad squadmate:p
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Post by themikefest on Oct 8, 2020 12:43:02 GMT
In ME2. during the broker dlc, she turns into a scaredy-cat when chasing Vasir. Was that before or after Shep was knocked unconscious? I think your memory of this DLC is fuzzy. All she did was run after that bitch the whole time. When was Shepard knocked unconscious during the car chase?
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Post by KaiserShep on Oct 8, 2020 12:56:12 GMT
Was that before or after Shep was knocked unconscious? I think your memory of this DLC is fuzzy. All she did was run after that bitch the whole time. When was Shepard knocked unconscious during the car chase? Wait, you’re talking about the car chase, where Liara is just sitting there while Shepard is wildly careening through traffic? Well fuck me, the evidence is irrefutable.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Oct 8, 2020 13:57:09 GMT
When was Shepard knocked unconscious during the car chase? Wait, you’re talking about the car chase, where Liara is just sitting there while Shepard is wildly careening through traffic? Well fuck me, the evidence is irrefutable. Don't know about that, but what I do know is that this👇 Is me whenever Liara says that she is a good information broker.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Oct 8, 2020 15:23:50 GMT
Was that before or after Shep was knocked unconscious? I think your memory of this DLC is fuzzy. All she did was run after that bitch the whole time. When was Shepard knocked unconscious during the car chase? Really, your argument is that her deliberately written jokey behavior while Shepard speeds and careens wildly into oncoming traffic makes her unsuitable? I'm sorry but this point in particular is a total reach in order to reinforce a negative bias. Because literally everyone who isn't a bat shit insane adrenalin junkie (like Shepard) WOULD be screaming. Even you.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Oct 8, 2020 15:30:32 GMT
Wait, you’re talking about the car chase, where Liara is just sitting there while Shepard is wildly careening through traffic? Well fuck me, the evidence is irrefutable. Don't know about that, but what I do know is that this👇 Is me whenever Liara says that she is a good information broker. I mean, I will agree that from ME2 onwards, her character is done very few favors, and her flip from being a doe eyed archeologist to suddenly 2 years later being some "hard ass" super spy is hilariously dumb. But honestly I can't even be mad about that in particular because she is simply indicative of how ME2 is really where the franchise jumped off the rails in many ways, it simply took time for the trains momentum to slow down. Liara's 180 character flip is simply a symptom of the greater problems that the series suffered from.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Oct 8, 2020 15:35:47 GMT
Don't know about that, but what I do know is that this👇 Is me whenever Liara says that she is a good information broker. I mean, I will agree that from ME2 onwards, her character is done very few favors, and her flip from being a doe eyed archeologist to suddenly 2 years later being some "hard ass" super spy is hilariously dumb. But honestly I can't even be mad about that in particular because she is simply indicative of how ME2 is really where the franchise jumped off the rails in many ways, it simply took time for the trains momentum to slow down. Liara's 180 character flip is simply a symptom of the greater problems that the series suffered from. But it's still funny because she didn't even realize that her people had a beacon hidden. I bet the old Shadow Broker knew about it.
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Post by themikefest on Oct 8, 2020 15:38:31 GMT
When was Shepard knocked unconscious during the car chase? Really, your argument is that her deliberately written jokey behavior while Shepard speeds and careens wildly into oncoming traffic makes her unsuitable? I'm sorry but this point in particular is a total reach in order to reinforce a negative bias. Because literally everyone who isn't a bat shit insane adrenalin junkie (like Shepard) WOULD be screaming. Even you. If you read my post on this page, you would have noticed I mentioned other things as well, not just the scene in the dlc. As far as me screaming, no. Why? Because I realize Shepard is doing what is possible to stop Vasir from getting away.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Cyberstrike on Oct 8, 2020 15:38:53 GMT
Demos and/or trailers for MEA2, DA4, a DAO remaster, or full DA2 remake, that would at least new content that I far more interested in wanting to play and/or see and it would also give me some incentive to re-buy the MET closer to launch and/or at full price. That would be nice.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Oct 8, 2020 15:39:48 GMT
I mean, I will agree that from ME2 onwards, her character is done very few favors, and her flip from being a doe eyed archeologist to suddenly 2 years later being some "hard ass" super spy is hilariously dumb. But honestly I can't even be mad about that in particular because she is simply indicative of how ME2 is really where the franchise jumped off the rails in many ways, it simply took time for the trains momentum to slow down. Liara's 180 character flip is simply a symptom of the greater problems that the series suffered from. But it's still funny because she didn't even realize that her people had a beacon hidden. I bet the old Shadow Broker knew about it. I doubt it. After all everything he knew she knew since she got all of his information. Even Tevos, the Asari Councilor, didn’t know about the beacon until the Matriarchs told her to tell Shepard.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Oct 8, 2020 15:41:26 GMT
I mean, I will agree that from ME2 onwards, her character is done very few favors, and her flip from being a doe eyed archeologist to suddenly 2 years later being some "hard ass" super spy is hilariously dumb. But honestly I can't even be mad about that in particular because she is simply indicative of how ME2 is really where the franchise jumped off the rails in many ways, it simply took time for the trains momentum to slow down. Liara's 180 character flip is simply a symptom of the greater problems that the series suffered from. But it's still funny because she didn't even realize that her people had a beacon hidden. I bet the old Shadow Broker knew about it. I'm sure he did, the old broker was implied to be some creepy ass stalker who knew everything about everybody in the most absurdly OP way possible. Again his depiction in ME2 is one of many characters that got beaten with the Wallter's stick of "everythings gotta be like an action movie now!"
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