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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 25, 2020 8:50:18 GMT
Replaying the earlier games it has occurred to me that the majority of antagonists or anti-hero companions tend to be those employing magic in some form or other. This is even true of non-mage characters like Meredith because by the time she confronts you she is utilising the power of red lyrium. Even the Arishok and Viddasala use sarebaas against you. I think the only major antagonist who isn't using magic or is a side-kick to a magic user is Loghain. There is also Duke Prosper in MoA but I consider him a very minor player in the grand scheme of things since his actions do not have the potential to threaten the world or even a major part of it and the only real impact his death has on the wider world is that Celene has one less ally.
The ultimate boss we have to battle at the end of each main game has employed not just magic but Blight magic: Arch-demon; Meredith; Corypheus. So you could argue that the current major threat to Thedas has been and will continue to be the Blight until we find some way to deal with it. However, we also know that normal magic can be reality changing in the wrong hands. Only one major power considers the world would be better off without magic altogether and that is the Qun, which is why they were trying to strengthen the Veil in Trespasser.
So it occurred to me that perhaps ultimately the choice we might have to make is remove the veil entirely or strengthen it, either of which options would deal with the Blight. One involves pouring magic into the world to heal it, the other cutting of the source of power to the Blight, so all creatures and substances infected with it just wither and die. Of course both options might have a potential downside, which we may or may not be made aware of. Clearly a world with unlimited magic would have the potential for people to make the same mistakes all over again, ultimately unleashing a second magical catastrophe on creation and of course having to deal with 7 or possibly even more rather angry Evanuris in the short term. The alternative would presumably have a bad effect on all magically gifted creatures, whether human or otherwise, rendering them tranquil or even killing them outright but even if it did not do anything other than remove their ability to do magic, essentially it would be a world without magic and thus more easily conquered by the technologically advanced Qun and other as yet unrevealed non-magical races. However, there would no longer be the possibility of some power crazed idiot inadvertently altering reality through misuse of magic.
So which would you choose? It has to be one or the other because leaving Thedas as it is will ultimate lead to it being consumed by the Blight.
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Post by vella on Aug 25, 2020 11:13:01 GMT
I like your theory and have been pondering the same thing. If I remember correctly, the veil has begun to thin gradually for some reason. I would choose to let things stay as they are so that the veil will gradually weaken and dissipate completely.
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 25, 2020 12:46:15 GMT
I would choose to let things stay as they are so that the veil will gradually weaken and dissipate completely. Would that not create a situation like the dark future though? Also would there be the required magical energy to cleanse the Blight. There was red lyrium everywhere in the dark future. If just letting the Veil dissipate gradually was an option, why is Solas so determined to tear it down in one go?
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Post by Gileadan on Aug 25, 2020 13:10:49 GMT
I'd strengthen the Veil. All those evil wossnames lose their powers and optionally wither away to a horrible death.
Healing magic has already been replaced by potions, so all former mages could be re-trained as elfroot gardeners and alchemists.
As far as the technologically superior Qun is concerned I suggest trebuchet launched jars of bees (and a few wasps).
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Post by vella on Aug 25, 2020 13:15:22 GMT
I would choose to let things stay as they are so that the veil will gradually weaken and dissipate completely. Would that not create a situation like the dark future though? Also would there be the required magical energy to cleanse the Blight. There was red lyrium everywhere in the dark future. If just letting the Veil dissipate gradually was an option, why is Solas so determined to tear it down in one go? I'm not so sure tearing down the veil will make the blight go away. Or do we already know how to cure blight? I haven't read the latest books/comics so if some new info has been shared, I am not aware of it.
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Post by Frost on Aug 25, 2020 13:27:27 GMT
My choice is to remove the veil in a way that doesn't kill most of the races. Mage is my favorite class, so I definitely don't want a Dragon Age with no magic.
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Post by Buckeldemon on Aug 25, 2020 13:48:46 GMT
If I remember correctly, the veil has begun to thin gradually for some reason. I would choose to let things stay as they are so that the veil will gradually weaken and dissipate completely. It is mentioned multiple times over the course of the series that lots of deaths occuring in one place attract spirits who then push against the veil from their side and weakening it, or something along these lines at least. To be honest, I'd say the veil will come down eventually regardless, given the deaths certain factions are liable to cause in their idelogical wars.
...
Generally speaking, I'd say if such a decision will come to pass, it will be at the end of the DA story, as I don't see a way continuing on afterwards without writing two entirely seperate stories. I would also like if we would end up learning that magic is necessary for Thedas (and beyond) to function, Blight or not, and removing it entirely will have more consequences than just some oppressive mad bloodmage cacklers loosing their power to make way for the oppressive muggles. I would not want it to boil to to the biggest binary "mages vs. templars" choice in the franchise.
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Post by wright1978 on Aug 25, 2020 18:03:03 GMT
Bring down the veil and free the evanuris would be my choice.
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Post by theascendent on Aug 25, 2020 18:09:36 GMT
I would rather Thedas end than live in a world without magic. Not so much to drown us and not so little where we die of thirst. Balance and moderation is key. The Veil as it stands is optimal for both magic and life.
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 25, 2020 21:01:13 GMT
I would not want it to boil to to the biggest binary "mages vs. templars" choice in the franchise. Let's hope it doesn't come to that. However, we know that strengthening the Veil is something the Qunari were working on and if they see that as a solution to the problem of the danger of magic, I don't think they are going to give up on the idea. We know what Solas intends, although he refused to say exactly why it is necessary, but I think the big red beating heart may have something to do with it. So it is not beyond the bounds of possibility that we might be presented with such a choice. I wouldn't worry unduly though. None of our other choices have ever really had a lasting impact, so there will always be a way to restore the status quo.
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Post by biggydx on Aug 25, 2020 21:04:02 GMT
I'd strengthen the Veil. All those evil wossnames lose their powers and optionally wither away to a horrible death. Healing magic has already been replaced by potions, so all former mages could be re-trained as elfroot gardeners and alchemists. As far as the technologically superior Qun is concerned I suggest trebuchet launched jars of bees (and a few wasps). Quick! We need a clip of Nicholas Cage screaming, "Oh no, not the bees! Not the bee's! AAAGHHHH!!!"
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 25, 2020 21:11:45 GMT
If it had to be only one of those two options, I choose Complete Veil since at least that option won’t kill anybody while the other will kill countless people.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Aug 25, 2020 23:10:25 GMT
As a player I would choose no Veil, because I think that's the most interesting place to take the story out of the two options.
However, there is nowhere near enough information available in order to decide what would be "best" for Thedas, and author privilege means that any decision could just introduce new problems either way.
Assuming there is even a way to make the veil "complete", whatever that means, magic literally grows out of the freaking ground. It is the blood of the rock giants that the entire (known) world is *made of*. So getting rid of the veil doesn't even necessarily mean getting rid of magic at all. But if it *did* mean getting rid of all magic, then how would that effect lyrium and the titans?
Magic is inherent to Thedas. It has always existed. It's part of the natural world. Magic is the reason Thedas as we know it even *exists*. You can't just cut out magic and assume everything will be fine. We have no idea to what degree magic is entwined into the existing ecosystem of Thedas, but we *do* know that it's pretty freaking important.
Saying "mages can be retrained to make potions* assumes those plants will still exist if all magic went away, and there's no way to know that. It assumes humans and elves won't all just turn into Tranquil and slowly starve to death with no one to give them orders. It assumes the Titans won't die and crumble, causing the planet to implode. People are assuming that getting rid of magic wouldn't hurt anybody, *but there is no way to know that*.
What we DO know is that there was plenty of life on Thedas pre-Veil, and that the pre-Veil elven civilization was even extremely advanced (except for that whole slavery thing). If I have to choose between no Veil or no magic, I'm going to choose no Veil, and hope that maybe this time around people will use the power more responsibly.
Also, I don't believe that removing the Veil will wipe out all life on Thedas. I have seen no evidence whatsoever that Solas isn't just assuming that.
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Post by colfoley on Aug 25, 2020 23:15:11 GMT
I think this thread is asking the wrong question. Because I really hope BioWare has learned their lesson when it comes to ME 3 about doing this sort of thing and a veiless world versus a full veil world is way too diametric a shift to continue the story...if this comes down to the player it'll be the end of Dragon Age...or at least this plotline. Which is in itself fine I guess if they do that, but on the other hand that will rob us of the interesting story exploration that either option could provide if we were to do it in a vacuum.
So the question should not be what would we do as players but what BioWare's canon choice will be. And at the end of the day the choices we will make will regard around what will we do with Tevinter, the Qunari, and Solas...and maybe how we will prepare the world for a post DA 4 world...whatever form it is. To answer this question we need to look at the clues and the lore that Bio has been leaving up to this point and I thin I can see this going one of two ways:
1. In favor of a complete Veil- Yes Morrigan in DA I claimed that humanity was destroying everything in its path when it comes to the past and the pure world. Dragons, magic, etc. And while some of those things are certainly cool...or even benign...the question has to be asked though if its a good premise in its entirety. Afterall if the theme of Dragon Age is going to be between 'corruption vs redemption' then magic could be seen as the ultimate Corrupting source. Consider: Mages are easy to corrupt via demon possession, that in each one of the three games to this point we have been an accessory to a mage with an ulterior, hidden agenda...and in the last two games this has been a terrorist and a genocidal madman respectively. Consider also the history of mages. While this is not true of all of them...certainly...mages have grown to rule with a violent fist more often then not. The Evanuris, the first Tevinter Imperium, the current Tevinter Imperium, Avernus, and several other minor examples of mages using their power to force their ideology on others. Now of course we can debate whether or not this is a nature versus nurture argument all the live long day...but at the end of the day there is enough historical precedent within the DA setting where the writers might be saying 'magic is a bad thing.'
2. If the theme of DA is the restoration of the past world to battle the corruption inherent in the current system...then bringing down the Veil might be for the best since the Veil could be the original event which sundered the world from the magic. Afterall Morrigan seems to desire that outcome and it seems the current state of Thedas is about the constant encroachment of corruption...in the primary form of the Blight but there are others. We also have to take into account Sandal's prophecy in 2 'when the sky opens up the whole world will see'.
Honestly though if I had to hazard a guess...that sucker is coming down. When, how, and exactly what it will do when it comes down...hell maybe that will be a choice in DA 4 bringing it down so it kills off a very small amount of people.
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Post by colfoley on Aug 25, 2020 23:17:45 GMT
As a player I would choose no Veil, because I think that's the most interesting place to take the story out of the two options. However, there is nowhere near enough information available in order to decide what would be "best" for Thedas, and author privilege means that any decision could just introduce new problems either way. Assuming there is even a way to make the veil "complete", whatever that means, magic literally grows out of the freaking ground. It is the blood of the rock giants that the entire (known) world is *made of*. So getting rid of the veil doesn't even necessarily mean getting rid of magic at all. But if it *did* mean getting rid of all magic, then how would that effect lyrium and the titans? Magic is inherent to Thedas. It has always existed. It's part of the natural world. Magic is the reason Thedas as we know it even *exists*. You can't just cut out magic and assume everything will be fine. We have no idea to what degree magic is entwined into the existing ecosystem of Thedas, but we *do* know that it's pretty freaking important. Saying "mages can be retrained to make potions* assumes those plants will still exist if all magic went away, and there's no way to know that. It assumes humans and elves won't all just turn into Tranquil and slowly starve to death with no one to give them orders. It assumes the Titans won't die and crumble, causing the planet to implode. People are assuming that getting rid of magic wouldn't hurt anybody, *but there is no way to know that*. What we DO know is that there was plenty of life on Thedas pre-Veil, and that the pre-Veil elven civilization was even extremely advanced (except for that whole slavery thing). If I have to choose between no Veil or no magic, I'm going to choose no Veil, and hope that maybe this time around people will use the power more responsibly. Also, I don't believe that removing the Veil will wipe out all life on Thedas. I have seen no evidence whatsoever that Solas isn't just assuming that. I actually feel most people are making that assumption about what Solas intends to do rather then Solas making the assumption that his plan will 'wipe out all life' in the first place. People are taking the trickster god literally...don't take the trickster god literally.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Aug 26, 2020 1:42:33 GMT
As a player I would choose no Veil, because I think that's the most interesting place to take the story out of the two options. However, there is nowhere near enough information available in order to decide what would be "best" for Thedas, and author privilege means that any decision could just introduce new problems either way. Assuming there is even a way to make the veil "complete", whatever that means, magic literally grows out of the freaking ground. It is the blood of the rock giants that the entire (known) world is *made of*. So getting rid of the veil doesn't even necessarily mean getting rid of magic at all. But if it *did* mean getting rid of all magic, then how would that effect lyrium and the titans? Magic is inherent to Thedas. It has always existed. It's part of the natural world. Magic is the reason Thedas as we know it even *exists*. You can't just cut out magic and assume everything will be fine. We have no idea to what degree magic is entwined into the existing ecosystem of Thedas, but we *do* know that it's pretty freaking important. Saying "mages can be retrained to make potions* assumes those plants will still exist if all magic went away, and there's no way to know that. It assumes humans and elves won't all just turn into Tranquil and slowly starve to death with no one to give them orders. It assumes the Titans won't die and crumble, causing the planet to implode. People are assuming that getting rid of magic wouldn't hurt anybody, *but there is no way to know that*. What we DO know is that there was plenty of life on Thedas pre-Veil, and that the pre-Veil elven civilization was even extremely advanced (except for that whole slavery thing). If I have to choose between no Veil or no magic, I'm going to choose no Veil, and hope that maybe this time around people will use the power more responsibly. Also, I don't believe that removing the Veil will wipe out all life on Thedas. I have seen no evidence whatsoever that Solas isn't just assuming that. I actually feel most people are making that assumption about what Solas intends to do rather then Solas making the assumption that his plan will 'wipe out all life' in the first place. People are taking the trickster god literally...don't take the trickster god literally. Well, in this very thread, Hanako's choice is entirely predicated on the assumption that pulling the Veil down will automatically kill a lot of people regardless. Solas and his plan aren't even brought up.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Aug 26, 2020 1:50:35 GMT
Also, I question the premise that magic is "the source of power to the Blight". I don't think it's been established that Blight and Magic necessarily have any relationship at all.
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Post by colfoley on Aug 26, 2020 2:13:08 GMT
Also, I question the premise that magic is "the source of power to the Blight". I don't think it's been established that Blight and Magic necessarily have any relationship at all. That is kind of true but we have seen 'Blight Magic'. I mean if you are referencing my long spiel up there my basic point is that: Magic is a corrupting influence in the world whether or not that is Blight Magic, Fade Magic, Titan Magic, what have you. All of these magical forms is either open to corruption by using them or people use them for corrupt and tyrannical purposes. And the Blight itself...which is one magical source...is inherently corrupting. The Blight has been shown to poison or corrupt everything it touches. Now I do stress I do not think this is the only course BioWare can take but one course they may take to help explain and expand upon the themes of the Dragon Age. As I said I find it far more likely that the Veil will come down at the end of DA 4 or that we will get some situation that is more or less a continuance of the status quo rather the a full strengthening of the Veil to the point the OP suggests.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Aug 26, 2020 2:23:44 GMT
Also, I question the premise that magic is "the source of power to the Blight". I don't think it's been established that Blight and Magic necessarily have any relationship at all. That is kind of true but we have seen 'Blight Magic'. I mean if you are referencing my long spiel up there my basic point is that: Magic is a corrupting influence in the world whether or not that is Blight Magic, Fade Magic, Titan Magic, what have you. All of these magical forms is either open to corruption by using them or people use them for corrupt and tyrannical purposes. And the Blight itself...which is one magical source...is inherently corrupting. The Blight has been shown to poison or corrupt everything it touches. Now I do stress I do not think this is the only course BioWare can take but one course they may take to help explain and expand upon the themes of the Dragon Age. As I said I find it far more likely that the Veil will come down at the end of DA 4 or that we will get some situation that is more or less a continuance of the status quo rather the a full strengthening of the Veil to the point the OP suggests. Actually, I was referring to the OP which asserts that both removing or reinforcing the Veil would "deal with the Blight", and that "Blight is powered by Magic". Now, I am not a DA lore junkie, I don't read any of the ancillary media or much of the in-game Codex. So if there IS a relationship between "magic" and "blight", then I'm more than happy to be corrected. But I have never seen concrete proof of this. Even if Blight and Magic are connected, there's no evidence that sealing the Fade off would do anything. We know for certain that darkspawn (and therefore blight/taint) predate the breaching of the Golden City, and may even predate the Veil. If Blight/Taint is a product of the material world, or of some other place (the 'Void'), then sealing the Fade off from the material plane will achieve something between nada and zilch. As for Blight being a 'source of magic', it certainly gives access to powers beyond the scope of the typical 'magic' of Thedas, but at this point the argument becomes too muddy. 'Magic' is useful as a catch-all term for the various phenomena of Thedas, but it makes distinguishing between various different forces/powers very difficult indeed.
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Post by colfoley on Aug 26, 2020 2:33:41 GMT
That is kind of true but we have seen 'Blight Magic'. I mean if you are referencing my long spiel up there my basic point is that: Magic is a corrupting influence in the world whether or not that is Blight Magic, Fade Magic, Titan Magic, what have you. All of these magical forms is either open to corruption by using them or people use them for corrupt and tyrannical purposes. And the Blight itself...which is one magical source...is inherently corrupting. The Blight has been shown to poison or corrupt everything it touches. Now I do stress I do not think this is the only course BioWare can take but one course they may take to help explain and expand upon the themes of the Dragon Age. As I said I find it far more likely that the Veil will come down at the end of DA 4 or that we will get some situation that is more or less a continuance of the status quo rather the a full strengthening of the Veil to the point the OP suggests. Actually, I was referring to the OP which asserts that both removing or reinforcing the Veil would "deal with the Blight", and that "Blight is powered by Magic". Now, I am not a DA lore junkie, I don't read any of the ancillary media or much of the in-game Codex. So if there IS relationship between "magic" and "blight", then I'm more than happy to be corrected. But I have never see concrete proof of this. Even if Blight and Magic are connected, there's no evidence that sealing the Fade off would do anything. We know for certain that darkspawn (and therefore blight/taknt) predate the breaching of the Golden City, and may even predate the Veil. If Blight/Taint is a product of the material world, or of some other place (the 'Void'), then sealing the Fade off from the material plane will achieve something between nada and zilch. Excellent excellent point. As far as the connection between magic and blight is concerned, while I am not a lore junky either and the OP can probably go into a lot more detail on the specifics then I, I do know of at least three solid pieces of evidence which suggests that the Blight can be used as a source to power magic...and powerful magic then that. Now I think this could be very different then Fade magic...but there we are: 1. Avernus in DAOs Warden Keep DLC was conducting magical experiements on the Blight during his time in there...and I forget the exact wording of his notes, but reading through them indicates that they were being used to make his magic more potent (and you as the Warden can then chose to take advantage of the experiements which give you special abilities) 2. During DA 2 Meredith is infected by her Red Lyrium Sword which then gives her some crazy ass 'magical' abilities namely control over the stone statues in the courtyard. Not to mention some of the other more crazy stuff that was attributed to Red Lyrium in that game. 3. Valta in the Descent and her magical abiities. While not by itself the Blight she was given magical abilities by being exposed to the Titan which then since Red Lyrium is infected Titan's blood...
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Post by pessimistpanda on Aug 26, 2020 2:45:06 GMT
Actually, I was referring to the OP which asserts that both removing or reinforcing the Veil would "deal with the Blight", and that "Blight is powered by Magic". Now, I am not a DA lore junkie, I don't read any of the ancillary media or much of the in-game Codex. So if there IS relationship between "magic" and "blight", then I'm more than happy to be corrected. But I have never see concrete proof of this. Even if Blight and Magic are connected, there's no evidence that sealing the Fade off would do anything. We know for certain that darkspawn (and therefore blight/taknt) predate the breaching of the Golden City, and may even predate the Veil. If Blight/Taint is a product of the material world, or of some other place (the 'Void'), then sealing the Fade off from the material plane will achieve something between nada and zilch. Excellent excellent point. As far as the connection between magic and blight is concerned, while I am not a lore junky either and the OP can probably go into a lot more detail on the specifics then I, I do know of at least three solid pieces of evidence which suggests that the Blight can be used as a source to power magic...and powerful magic then that. Now I think this could be very different then Fade magic...but there we are: 1. Avernus in DAOs Warden Keep DLC was conducting magical experiements on the Blight during his time in there...and I forget the exact wording of his notes, but reading through them indicates that they were being used to make his magic more potent (and you as the Warden can then chose to take advantage of the experiements which give you special abilities) 2. During DA 2 Meredith is infected by her Red Lyrium Sword which then gives her some crazy ass 'magical' abilities namely control over the stone statues in the courtyard. Not to mention some of the other more crazy stuff that was attributed to Red Lyrium in that game. 3. Valta in the Descent and her magical abiities. While not by itself the Blight she was given magical abilities by being exposed to the Titan which then since Red Lyrium is infected Titan's blood... Sorry, I should have waited for your reply before amending my post. The problem/s here is that 'magic' is a vague term to begin with (referring to basically anything that characters do not understand), and that Dragon Age takes that already vague term and applies it very loosely and arbitrarily. Understandable, or course, because what else are they supposed to call the various phenomena caused by the Blight/Taint? But it makes in-depth discussion too confusing. Blight/Taint certainly does give access to powers and abilities far beyond the scope of what magic (even blood magic) in Thedas is typically shown to be able to acheive, up to and including immortality (of a kind) to some. How Blight interacts with various different things in Thedas, and why the results seem to vary so widely, is a very good question indeed. Though I suspect the answer is just that the writers didn't think about it very hard.
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 26, 2020 8:21:24 GMT
Even if Blight and Magic are connected, there's no evidence that sealing the Fade off would do anything. We know for certain that darkspawn (and therefore blight/taint) predate the breaching of the Golden City, and may even predate the Veil. As far as the connection between magic and blight is concerned, while I am not a lore junky either and the OP can probably go into a lot more Naturally I was making an assumption in providing the scenario because there is still a lot we don't know and whether this is because "spoilers" or whether it is simply the writers haven't worked it out for themselves is anyone's guess. Take blood magic, for example. We have yet to be told exactly how this operates and where it draws its power from. DA2 was entirely contradictory in that its codex said it did not involve doing deals with demons and yet everybody gaining power from blood magic was doing deals with demons. The writers confirmed that an essential element is sacrifice, which some people have assumed means inflicting pain, but that is not necessarily the case, it simply means giving something to gain something. In other words, you give a bit of your life force (or someone else's) to gain power but that still doesn't explain why it gives you power. Then in Last Flight Calien speaks of making a "blind bargain", which is why the results aren't always what you expect, but it is never explained who you are making this bargain with. May be that is why it is essentially blind. Still, wherever it gets its power from apparently it is not the Fade because it was possible for Isseya to spot that he was getting his power from somewhere else. (This could be important with regard to the Veil/not Veil argument.) Also, seemingly related to this, why do battles and large amounts of bloodshed thin the Veil? Last Flight is also important with respect to Blight magic. It was revealed in that novel that this is a definite thing. The arch-demon is drawing its power from an alternative source, which I have assumed to be the Void rather than the Fade. Also, Solas has a number of conversations with Vivienne about the source of Corypheus' power and the agree it is coming from three sources: Fade, orb and Blight, more specifically red lyrium. However, we have yet have it confirmed which came first, red lyrium or the Blight. Again, we do not know exactly how ordinary lyrium bestows its power, whether it is direct from the lyrium or whether the substance simply provides a conduit to draw off mana from the Fade. If that is the case, then may be red lyrium provides a conduit to draw it from another source, the same as the arch-demon did. If this is the case, then since elven legend says Fen'Harel shut away two sets of gods, one in the Eternal (Golden) City in the Fade and the other set in the Abyss (Void), I have simply made the assumption that if strengthening the Veil will cut off the Fade to a greater extent, then perhaps it will also do that to the Void as well. Of course, the Titans do complicate issues. They are not creatures of the Fade and yet they have the essence of magic literally flowing through them, so strengthening the Veil probably wouldn't remove magic altogether but simply make it less obvious. It was also peculiar that the rise of human mages followed on immediately after the Veil. Why should it be that precisely at the time when the elves were losing their magic, the humans were gaining it? Then there are Yavana's words in the Silent Grove that the "blood of dragons is the blood of the world" and that mankind in destroying the dragons were unwittingly destroying themselves. Of course that idea may have been superseded by the concept of the Titans or may be the dragons are linked in some way to them, so are of the earth as well, so the reason the Evanuris adopted the form of dragons was to signify their victory over the earth. Dragons do seem to go deep underground to hibernate and do apparently show a resistance to the Blight, so that could be another key to how it can be overcome. So may be there will not need to be a choice about the Veil and even if the PC made one, that does not necessarily mean it would pan out as they thought it would because there are too many unknown factors involved.
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 26, 2020 8:38:25 GMT
I actually feel most people are making that assumption about what Solas intends to do rather then Solas making the assumption that his plan will 'wipe out all life' in the first place. People are taking the trickster god literally...don't take the trickster god literally. Well, in this very thread, Hanako's choice is entirely predicated on the assumption that pulling the Veil down will automatically kill a lot of people regardless. Solas and his plan aren't even brought up.
I left out the widespread destruction aspect of removing the Veil because we only have the Dread Wolf's take on this. However, it was heavily implied by him in Trespasser and again in Tevinter Nights that it is going to have a bad outcome for the majority of people who are not elves. Nevertheless in Tevinter Nights he is back on his idea that his action is necessary to save the (current) world. Now this could merely be him trying to justify his actions to himself all over again because he gave us three motivations for his previous action: vengeance for the murder of Mythal; freedom for the elven people; saving the world from destruction by the Evanuris. This time round he started off with saving the elven people and now appears to have added saving the current world but without mentioning from what. However, the only thing that is enough of a threat to the current world is the Blight and as yet no one else has come up with an answer to that problem, so that is why I've assumed that not doing something drastic will simply result in the world and its people dying from the Blight anyway. Of course that could be a rather generous assumption on my part and he is just using that argument to make himself feel better. May be he hasn't even considered an alternative means of dealing with it and that is what our next PC is going to discover, rendering neither of the scenarios I have given necessary, because the world can still be saved from the Blight by keeping it exactly as it is.
In terms of the direction Bioware are heading with the plot, the original 2013 trailer would seem to suggest that Solas does succeed in tearing down the Veil and that is the second half of the plot that was missing from DAI. However, it is equally possible that there has been a change of direction over this and it is not something that is going to happen regardless. On the plus side, in that trailer people did seem to have survived the initial removal but it had unleashed a lot of scary monsters that made the world a much more dangerous place.
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Post by Beerfish on Aug 26, 2020 13:14:52 GMT
Whatever that prig Solas does not want is what I want. He wants to eliminate does he not?
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Post by grallon on Aug 28, 2020 1:51:54 GMT
Regardless of Gervaise's erudition, I would still choose to seal the Fade away completely, if it were up to me.
There were many indications in DAI of a growing awareness that some sort of 'Renaissance' was taking place, at least in Southern Thedas, by the time the Inquisition was formed. You recall that physician brought up from the refugee camp when we reached Skyhold, who lectured the Inquisitor about science, not magic, being the way of the future? Hell, the Inquisition itself, and the way it was embraced by the masses, was a departure form the Chantry and its dogmas about primordial sin. Add to that the disillusion of the common folks with the tantrums of Celene andher cousin Gaspard, along with the abuses of the nobility in general during the Orlesian civil war. There was also the fact that all the age-old institutions such as the Wardens, the Templars and the Cicrcles were all discredited by the end of DAI. Indeed, the new Divine (other than Vivienne) ends up pushing for significant reforms, demonstrating the hunger of the people for something new. A world without magic, or with very few manifestations of it, could very well be the answer.
Imagine. Without the Fade, the Titans would remain dormant; magic would become exceedingly rare; spirits would be shut out forever and so possession would become practically unheard of. Why, perhaps even the Blight might be 'starved of oxygen', so to speak, like a cancerous tumor being starved of nutrients. I think that is a goal worth striving for: a normalized world.
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