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Post by therevanchist25 on Aug 29, 2020 4:06:42 GMT
Hanako Ikezawa I recognize and empathize with your disappointment over the potential near entire loss of an Inky/Solas resolution that satisfies long term fans. I am simulataneously disappointed about the things that could have been, the characters and storylines I thought I would get to explore, and excited about the characters I never considered. Optimistic but not excited about the storylines. I'm a warden hoe, so that was a big reveal for me, whereas I could care less about the evanuris and even less about the titans. Always knew this was going to be one of the directions the story went, but still kinda like MEH. Gotta tie off Solas, but otherwise the evanuris could hang. But what keeps me optimistic is that I may not care at all now, but once I encounter these villains, the world they're in, I may care A LOT. My character may care SO MUCH. But we're not to that point yet. You are on a fan forum, so the outlook is going to be faily positive, so please don't feel unheard. I think a lot of solas mancers are feeling unheard right now, as well as the people who felt strongly, like you and I, that our Inky needed to be the ones to sink the blade into Solas. Thank you. It's not even the Trespasser setup being abandoned itself that bothers me, but more what they undid in order to create that setup. I've said before, if the last we saw of the Inquisitor was them standing on their balcony looking at a new dawn, I'd be perfectly fine with some new Pc stopping Solas since the Inquisitor's story was concluded. But now, they undid that with Trespasser, setting them up for a new story, only to be discarded. I saw someone else put, it's like a series getting a cliffhanger ending but cancelled before the new season. But to add to that analogy, it's like the series that got the cliffhanger was already finished, but they decided one more season to create that cliffhanger. And when that cliffhanger is finally addressed, it is in a new series that isn't even really connected to the old show the tore apart to set that up. I have no optimism. Nothing that they spoke of in this video sparked it, since I either don't like what they talked about or it is things they have done already so it's not like it's new. And this was even before learning the devastating news. As for being unheard, considering I got banned for a day for expressing my disappointment I think it's fair to say I am being unheard, since when I am heard I'm silenced. Yes, all of my yes. This pisses me off beyond words, frankly. I AM ABSOLUTELY SICK OF THIS NEW CHARACTER EVERY FUCKING GAME RULE! I am DONE and OVER it! They KNEW damn good and well they were going to stick to this stupid ass rule, yet went ahead and made Trespasser end that way regardless. Honestly Trespasser just feels like a giant middle finger to me now, the same way the Refuse ending does! I went on a multi PAGE rant in the old BSN where I explained in overtly excessive nerdy detail WHY The Inquisitor absolutely HAD to return in the next game, BECAUSE of Trespasser! I got a lot of support from folks at the time and Hanako was one of them. This honestly just makes me wanna say "fuck it" altogether. I'm so close to just walking away from this shit forever. Just over and over again they prove they don't think shit through. They never seem to learn their lessons. They refuse to change the formula, and adapt it to how the story unfolds. I'm just so done...
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Post by Solas on Aug 29, 2020 4:10:31 GMT
btw it looks like halla in the airship pics. tiny antlered deerlike critters off to one side if you zoom in. near a humanoid handler figure
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Post by Hrungr on Aug 29, 2020 4:14:19 GMT
Just wanted to post this page of Concept Art from the Red Book to see if anything else lines up...
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Post by Solas on Aug 29, 2020 4:19:52 GMT
top right has a bird mask and a crow like Lady Zorro
the necromancer has a skull faced.. face or mask, with that curved topped kinda helmet that FierySkeletonHead has
faction guess unrelated to concept art: light colored clothings people on second row, with the Tevene aesthetic - Siccari?
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Post by Hrungr on Aug 29, 2020 4:20:21 GMT
btw it looks like halla in the airship pics. tiny antlered deerlike critters off to one side if you zoom in. near a humanoid handler figure Well whatdoyaknow...
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Post by bshep on Aug 29, 2020 4:29:01 GMT
So what are we looking at here (other than the designer really loved The Neverending Story )...? With the lyrium blue glow, it's like... a mini-Titan. Baby Titan? If if wasn't for the blue glow, I'd say it was spirit-possessed. But, maybe it is. I will go with Titan. Maybe they all come in different sizes. Plus we are only seeing the hands and face, it would look quite bigger if it were standing.
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Post by Solas on Aug 29, 2020 4:30:59 GMT
about that img, I’m not convinced that the presence of floating objects means the Veil has already come down in it. We’re going north, and as mentioned in thread, in Tevinter there are buildings which float etc, so the magic capacity for buildings and similar objects to do is in the mundane world is established already. The boats are reminiscent of aravels though and we know Dalish Keepers use their magic to allow aravels to move through forests. In Last Flight, Isseya remembers tales of how Dalish used their magic to float their aravels through forests, and fashions improvised aravels which are held aloft by magic and pulled by griffons.
then theres the halla
could ths image be of an elfy place, perhaps from ancient times, or like the elfy places we travel through in Trespasser (the hills and landscape reminds me of what we can see in the distance in there in the elfy bits), or one of the mysterious ancient elven enclaves which still persist in Thedas to this day, or in the heart of Arlathan Forest. or... AIR NOMAD DALISH??? wild speculation ofc.. 😝
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Post by smilesja on Aug 29, 2020 4:31:20 GMT
So what are we looking at here (other than the designer really loved The Neverending Story )...? With the lyrium blue glow, it's like... a mini-Titan. Baby Titan? If if wasn't for the blue glow, I'd say it was spirit-possessed. But, maybe it is. I will go with Titan. Maybe they all come in different sizes. Plus we are only seeing the hands and face, it would look quite bigger if it were standing. Doubtful they'll show a spoiler character so soon.
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Post by bshep on Aug 29, 2020 4:36:40 GMT
about that img, I’m not convinced that the presence of floating objects means the Veil has already come down in it. We’re going north, and as mentioned in thread, in Tevinter there are buildings which float etc, so the magic capacity for buildings and similar objects to do is in the mundane world is established already. The boats are reminiscent of aravels though and we know Dalish Keepers use their magic to allow aravels to move through forests. In Last Flight, Isseya remembers tales of how Dalish used their magic to float their aravels through forests, and fashions improvised aravels which are held aloft by magic and pulled by griffons. then theres the halla could ths image be of an elfy place, perhaps from ancient times, or like the elfy places we travel through in Trespasser (the hills and landscape reminds me of what we can see in the distance in there in the elfy bits), or one of the mysterious ancient elven enclaves which still persist in Thedas to this day, or in the heart of Arlathan Forest. or... AIR NOMAD DALISH??? wild speculation ofc.. 😝 Maybe Solas is brinking back all the lost magic and technology of his time to better help in his cause.
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Post by Iddy on Aug 29, 2020 4:57:14 GMT
Damn. 30 pages in just two days.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Aug 29, 2020 5:27:14 GMT
What's "fairly and realistically" in a fantasy world? If BioWare writes one side of an issue to be wholly evil, then that side is wholly evil. The only reason there is any ambiguity in the first place is because BioWare tries (poorly) to be ambiguous. If the issue is *slavery*, BioWare would be far better served to openly oppose it. Very, very few people are likely to respond well to any attempts to make slavery seem "complex" or "sympathetic". That is kind of the whole point about Sci Fi/ fantasy/ speculative fiction to begin with. To create 'another world' that could be very similar to ours...or different...to hold up a mirror to our own and give us a place to view issues in the 'real' world with a relative lack of passion. On the slavery issue for instance the word slavery and indentured servitude does have certain negative connotations to us living in a world that has seen a lot of abuses under those systems (and rightfully so) but franchises like Dragon Age or Game of Thrones has pointed out, rightly, that some people may want to be slaves. Some people may want to be an indentured servant to pay off a debt. Which even matches real life history given that some former slaves after the civil war didn't welcome their emancipation with joy. Edit: And that is to say nothing of the cultural bias having such an institution might have and how that would effect individual people if they are exposed to only that way of life...like Dorian. I mean as much as this might shock some of us (doesen't shock me) but some people prefer living under authoritarian states because such things can be quite safe. I'm gonna just say this and then drop the issue, because slavery in either history or Dragon Age isn't something I'm remotely interested in debating the merits of, but "some people might like being slaves" is really, really not the amazing argument that some people seem to think it is, and drawing parallels to US emancipation is an especially bad idea. Victims of abusive situations are often scared or unwilling to leave, for many reasons. That doesn't mean leaving them in those situations is ever the right thing to do. Abuse isn't "complicated", there's no "good points" to it. A victim of abuse becoming so used to their situation that they can't conceive an alternative is a tragedy, not an argument in favour of abuse. If BioWare tries to make slavery seem like a potentially "good" thing then they are either very stupid, or just bad people.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Aug 29, 2020 5:31:03 GMT
about that img, I’m not convinced that the presence of floating objects means the Veil has already come down in it. We’re going north, and as mentioned in thread, in Tevinter there are buildings which float etc, so the magic capacity for buildings and similar objects to do is in the mundane world is established already. The boats are reminiscent of aravels though and we know Dalish Keepers use their magic to allow aravels to move through forests. In Last Flight, Isseya remembers tales of how Dalish used their magic to float their aravels through forests, and fashions improvised aravels which are held aloft by magic and pulled by griffons. then theres the halla could ths image be of an elfy place, perhaps from ancient times, or like the elfy places we travel through in Trespasser (the hills and landscape reminds me of what we can see in the distance in there in the elfy bits), or one of the mysterious ancient elven enclaves which still persist in Thedas to this day, or in the heart of Arlathan Forest. or... AIR NOMAD DALISH??? wild speculation ofc.. 😝 Maybe Solas is brinking back all the lost magic and technology of his time to better help in his cause. Tbh, nothing was stopping DA from having some sort of flying machines before now. Even a child can understand the basic science behind a hot air balloon. And then it's just a matter of acquiring the materials.
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Post by bshep on Aug 29, 2020 5:31:42 GMT
I don't think we need to worry about that with Bioware.
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Post by colfoley on Aug 29, 2020 6:02:54 GMT
That is kind of the whole point about Sci Fi/ fantasy/ speculative fiction to begin with. To create 'another world' that could be very similar to ours...or different...to hold up a mirror to our own and give us a place to view issues in the 'real' world with a relative lack of passion. On the slavery issue for instance the word slavery and indentured servitude does have certain negative connotations to us living in a world that has seen a lot of abuses under those systems (and rightfully so) but franchises like Dragon Age or Game of Thrones has pointed out, rightly, that some people may want to be slaves. Some people may want to be an indentured servant to pay off a debt. Which even matches real life history given that some former slaves after the civil war didn't welcome their emancipation with joy. Edit: And that is to say nothing of the cultural bias having such an institution might have and how that would effect individual people if they are exposed to only that way of life...like Dorian. I mean as much as this might shock some of us (doesen't shock me) but some people prefer living under authoritarian states because such things can be quite safe. I'm gonna just say this and then drop the issue, because slavery in either history or Dragon Age isn't something I'm remotely interested in debating the merits of, but "some people might like being slaves" is really, really not the amazing argument that some people seem to think it is, and drawing parallels to US emancipation is an especially bad idea. Victims of abusive situations are often scared or unwilling to leave, for many reasons. That doesn't mean leaving them in those situations is ever the right thing to do. Abuse isn't "complicated", there's no "good points" to it. A victim of abuse becoming so used to their situation that they can't conceive an alternative is a tragedy, not an argument in favour of abuse. If BioWare tries to make slavery seem like a potentially "good" thing then they are either very stupid, or just bad people. I'm not saying you're wrong but this should be the power of fiction so we can have these conversations. I'm just saying that A. The issue is a little more complex then you are making it out to be and B. I highly doubt Bio is pro slavery...nor do I think they are especially stupid. In point of fact judging by the two representatives that made these arguments...bull and Dorian...both seem to have changed their minds on their brutal oppressive systems. Bull overtly Dorian is a bit more questionable.
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Post by The Biotic Trebuchet on Aug 29, 2020 6:23:46 GMT
Holy fucking tits! Now if they can extrapolate those concept arts to a game (with proper/decent Animations THIS TIME), they could recover their reputation. Looking foward to lady Qun & Company!
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Post by The Biotic Trebuchet on Aug 29, 2020 6:28:19 GMT
Maybe Solas is brinking back all the lost magic and technology of his time to better help in his cause. Tbh, nothing was stopping DA from having some sort of flying machines before now. Even a child can understand the basic science behind a hot air balloon. And then it's just a matter of acquiring the materials. Place inquisition banners over 3 quarries and 5 lumber camps over random ass places, and then procede to craft your own airworthy craft with the upgrade table in the basement of your fortress.
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Post by The Elder King on Aug 29, 2020 6:42:22 GMT
I was quite neutral from the start on the debate between a new PC or the Inquisitor in DA4, so this decision doesn’t personally affect me either way. But I can understand why this choice would alienate some players and make them different or not wanting to play the game.
Trespasser definitely screwed up the balance reached by the vanilla ending in Inquisition. While there’d certainly have been players who would want to play as the inquisitor to stop Solas even in the original scenario (even more so those who romanced him, which is another weird design decision on retrospect), the vanilla ending worked better in sending off the Inquisitor then meeting Solas once more, knowing more about his plan, losing an arm and then having the end where you could say you want to stop or redeem him. Expecially because it didn’t change anything for those that either didn’t want to play as the Inquisitor once more or have their ‘canon’ ending to his/her story. Even in Trespasser, you can very well canonize your Inquisitor in working in the shadow to stop Solas, or not wanting to fight anymore, as some explained in this thread already.
Now, I don’t think they did this out of malice or to screw with the players. It’s more due, in my opinion, due to some lack of thought, or maybe, if the original plan didn’t have Solas and his plot in a central role, a desire to postpone dealing with his plot and the decision on what protagonist would deal with him in the future.
I don’t think DA4 would be necessarily bad (or good, for the matter), because of a new protagonist. It does, however, privates the game of a more nuanced, or personal relation with the (possibly) major antagonist or the game, or in any case, a central character in the story. Like it was with Hawke not being the Inquisitor and be the major character against Corypheus, but at a deeper level.
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Post by Absafraginlootly on Aug 29, 2020 7:04:37 GMT
In point of fact judging by the two representatives that made these arguments...bull and Dorian...both seem to have changed their minds on their brutal oppressive systems. Bull overtly Dorian is a bit more questionable. No question about Dorian changing his mind. As of Tevinter Nights the Pavus household employs servants instead of owning slaves because "Someone I met in the south... changed my mind on the matter." So yes it seems Dorian has changed his mind about slaverly after having spent time away from his homeland, or returned with some "fresh views" as Maevaris put it. Now the two of them have started a political faction, the Lucerni, to restore and redeem corrupt Tevinter. While in the previous game Dorian may have represented how most people of his class think about, or rather don't really think about, slavery - its possible in the next game with him choosing the have no slaves and working to reform Tevinter Dorian as a character will be more of a force for change and abolitionism. A friendly face in a setting where we're going to be confronted with alot of npcs for whom slavery is normal.
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Post by telanadas on Aug 29, 2020 7:06:32 GMT
I'm not saying you're wrong but this should be the power of fiction so we can have these conversations. I'm just saying that A. The issue is a little more complex then you are making it out to be and B. I highly doubt Bio is pro slavery...nor do I think they are especially stupid. In point of fact judging by the two representatives that made these arguments...bull and Dorian...both seem to have changed their minds on their brutal oppressive systems. Bull overtly Dorian is a bit more questionable. I agree; DA clearly draws a lot of inspiration from ancient history and mythology, such as ancient Greece/Rome where servitude upheld every facet of society (which parallels Tevinter's society). Including varied perspectives on the issue does not mean BW are defending slavery. It just adds a lot more nuance and ambiguity to a complex issue that was inherent to the times. It's the same with political systems. What works in one country might not work in another. History is rarely black and white or strictly good vs. evil. Good stories are often never black/white either.
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Post by colfoley on Aug 29, 2020 7:14:35 GMT
In point of fact judging by the two representatives that made these arguments...bull and Dorian...both seem to have changed their minds on their brutal oppressive systems. Bull overtly Dorian is a bit more questionable. No question about Dorian changing his mind. As of Tevinter Nights the Pavus household employs servants instead of owning slaves because "Someone I met in the south... changed my mind on the matter." So yes it seems Dorian has changed his mind about slaverly after having spent time away from his homeland, or returned with some "fresh views" as Maevaris put it. Now the two of them have started a political faction, the Lucerni, to restore and redeem corrupt Tevinter. While in the previous game Dorian may have represented how most people of his class think about, or rather don't really think about, slavery - its possible in the next game with him choosing the have no slaves and working to reform Tevinter Dorian as a character will be more of a force for change and abolitionism. A friendly face in a setting where we're going to be confronted with alot of npcs for whom slavery is normal. Its amazing how much of Tevinter Nights I've already forgotten. (Though to be fair that was one of my three least favorite stories...heck that one might've even been my least favorite) Actually I am tempted to read the Dread Wolf Take You...again, I have questions and want to refresh my memory on a couple of things.
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Post by Aozora on Aug 29, 2020 7:34:06 GMT
Because it was bothering me, I whipped out The Art of Dragon Age Inquisition and yep, Solas' concept art shown in video (I mean face shots) make him look more like his previous concept art than his game self. And I find this: Guy from concept art from video... ...and concept art from DAI. A funny coincidence considering everything said in this thread It's not just some concept art, it's concept art of the (default) Inquisitor..! ✨ Yeah, I am not willing to give up hope yet... 😅
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Aug 29, 2020 8:25:12 GMT
Holy fucking tits! Now if they can extrapolate those concept arts to a game (with proper/decent Animations THIS TIME), they could recover their reputation. Looking foward to lady Qun & Company! Anthem has very good animations face/overall compared to any of their games that came before. I wouldnt worry about it.
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 29, 2020 8:29:29 GMT
Didn't Amdromeda have the option of dropping in on away missions and supposedly completing them yourself? I don't know about Andromeda since my computer is not powerful enough to play it and I don't do multi-player generally. However, with ME3 I seem to recall you could play as different agents rather than Shepard and then of course what you earned there helped your readiness score in the main game (which I strongly objected to). I'm sure a friend of mine was really buzzed though that he was able to play an asari. do you think we will get a companion that wants your help to get the Black Divine seat, only for him to turn on us later like that one Black Divine did with the leader of the seekers? This could be a possibility. If the leaders are ignoring the problems, then they could sell themselves with that pitch. After all Lambert says that he bonded with Urian over their shared desire to "change the world", then after he helped him deliver his coup, Lambert discovered the truth. Instead of bringing about reform, Urian just consolidated his power with a blood bath of rivals using blood magic. I can understand why Lambert might be rather cynical about trusting mages after that.
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 29, 2020 8:40:17 GMT
Also, if we are powerless and the people in charge aren't dealing with the issues, it's very doubtful one of our companion is a Magister with their own estate and retainers that happens to be part of the people in charge. This is why I could see her as a temporary companion or a contact but not as part of the main group. It wouldn't make sense for them to emphasise the lack of power angle. Maevaris has a lot of power, both as a Magister and through her connections with the Ambassadoria, plus she co-founded the Lucerni with Dorian. So I think she would be someone you'd definitely want to get on your side but I personally don't see her as a companion.
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 29, 2020 8:52:56 GMT
Well, the Deep Roads are way bigger than necessary for just dwarves to use. Well I've discussed this elsewhere. We know now that the Evanuris were involved with the dwarves and if the picture on p.38/39 of WoT is anything to go by then there were creatures using the Deep Roads that were way bigger than any of the modern races. Plus the Evanuris could turn into dragons and they need a lot of space, which would account for why the Arch-demons have no trouble getting around underground. However, concept art does often seem to over emphasise certain features, particularly where size is concerned. There is a picture at the front of WoT2, that I was informed was the original concept art for the Well of Sorrows sanctuary (not sure where the information came from) and the architecture there is massive, not to mention if it is the Well of Sorrows then the final version looked nothing like it.
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