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Post by Little Bengel on Sept 2, 2020 19:33:28 GMT
Then again...I sincerely hope not everything boils down to "the elves did it" You're right. We also need dwarven fuckery up in the mix as well. She definitely sounds like a much likelier culprit. Thousands of years of fun that fucked over Thedas in the long run. Bitch.
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Post by Rascoth on Sept 2, 2020 19:38:15 GMT
We also need dwarven fuckery up in the mix as well. Recently I was thinking about Harvesters from Amgarrak Thaig, they'd work.
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 2, 2020 19:42:15 GMT
Even stranger, the thaig the red lyrium idol was in predated the Blights. Corypheus said the city was already Black even though it looked Golden on the outside. That is where the Blight/Darkness came from so it pre-dated the Blight on Thedas itself. So all you have to ask is whose home was it when it became Blighted? Since Solas cut it off when he raised the Veil and the Dalish call it the Eternal City, home of their gods, it is increasingly looking like it was one of them. However, there was more than just the idol in that primitive thaig and it may still be a chicken and the egg situation as to which came first. Is the blight what infected the lyrium, or was corrupted lyrium the source of the blight? The dwarves have long claimed that the Blight came from underground, spreading upwards so to speak. That suggests the origins may well lie in a corrupted Titan.
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Sept 2, 2020 19:46:27 GMT
Then again...I sincerely hope not everything boils down to "the elves did it" You're right. We also need dwarven fuckery up in the mix as well. Loving the new avatar...very...you
And I agree...
We also need dwarven fuckery up in the mix as well. Recently I was thinking about Harvesters from Amgarrak Thaig, they'd work. agreed...those things are messed up...then again, they also gave us Golems which (if you read Caridin's journal) was also pretty messed up, I mean...pouring molten lyrium into a person's mouth and eyes? kinda gives of vibes of...well...a certain scene from Game of Thrones
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Post by azarhal on Sept 2, 2020 19:49:53 GMT
Yeah...which had me curious when we learned about the red lyrium having blight at all As Varric put it "the two most dangerous things combined"...it's curious as to where it (and darkspawn in general) really came from
I haven't read Tevinter Nights...but from what I gathered, Ghilan'nain was doing some very dubious experiments...who's to say the Blight wasn't something she created as well?
Then again...I sincerely hope not everything boils down to "the elves did it" My bet is Andruil rather than Ghilan'nain: dragonage.fandom.com/wiki/Codex_entry:_Elven_God_Andruil The Andruil's story seems to point more to her discovering it then creating it. So what if it predated the Elves too? Like the things they wanted buried/locked in the Deep Road.
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 2, 2020 20:10:09 GMT
So what if it predated the Elves too? Like the things they wanted buried/locked in the Deep Road. The question is, what exactly is the Void. Is it just another name for somewhere in the Deep Roads or is it actually the opposite of the Wellspring of Life in the Fade? Either way, the Dalish claim that Banalhan is both their name for the Blight and its place of origin. It means "the Place of Nothing" which I think is an alternative name for the Void. Much as they are continually maligned for not remembering things correctly, perhaps in this instance they remember it exactly right. Andruil went to the Void, got infected with the Blight and it drove her mad. Mythal fought and subdued her and stole her memories but it may well be that she also drew out the blight and neutralised it within herself, like dragons do by wrapping it in a cyst. Then someone murdered her and it was released again. Alternatively, since Solas wanted her murderers to suffer for eternity, he altered one of the eluvians out of the Eternal City so that it led to the Void and then shut it down on them when he raised the Veil but the eluvian was already corrupted by contact with the Void, so it slowly started to spread the blight within the city. When the Magisters broke in, it got out, spreading to the other half of the city that had been left in the Deep Roads before the Veil closed again.
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Post by Iakus on Sept 2, 2020 20:41:01 GMT
The Andruil's story seems to point more to her discovering it then creating it. So what if it predated the Elves too? Like the things they wanted buried/locked in the Deep Road. It sounds like it's something that came from the Void, whatever lies beyond the Fade, where the Forgotten Ones were banished to. Thedas Cthulhu>
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 2, 2020 20:48:34 GMT
Some people call lyrium the voice of the Maker but that is clearly just wishful thinking because we have been told the Maker will never be confirmed to exist or not. I wouldn’t be surprised if this game establishes the Maker as not existing. It’d hardly be the first time.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Sept 2, 2020 21:01:05 GMT
He actually turned out almost exactly as I imagined he would after DA2's ending, all grouchy and at the end of his rope, in hiding, and hating blood mages. I guess the portrayal was bound to fit someone's Hawke. Me too The only thing I found weird, was when my dw Hawke used a bow, but maybe she learned archery when I wasn't looking. She learned socially distanced combat.
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Post by Iakus on Sept 2, 2020 21:28:56 GMT
Some people call lyrium the voice of the Maker but that is clearly just wishful thinking because we have been told the Maker will never be confirmed to exist or not. I wouldn’t be surprised if this game establishes the Maker as not existing. It’d hardly be the first time. I think the plan was to be vague about it. Nowadays, who knows though?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 2, 2020 21:31:17 GMT
I wouldn’t be surprised if this game establishes the Maker as not existing. It’d hardly be the first time. I think the plan was to be vague about it. Nowadays, who knows though? That was the plan, sure. Now though, it definitely feels like they're going to give an answer soon.
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Post by Hrungr on Sept 2, 2020 22:09:52 GMT
I think the plan was to be vague about it. Nowadays, who knows though? That was the plan, sure. Now though, it definitely feels like they're going to give an answer soon. I'm of two thoughts on this... On the one hand, I fully expect the Chantry to be hit with a major crisis of faith once they learn that major pillars of their faith are just... wrong. Some won't believe it, others will abandon the Chantry... it'll be a mess. On the other hand, one can argue there is a "Higher Power", just maybe not the Chantry's. The Inquisitor for example - there had to be a higher power at work for everything in their life to fall into place just so. From stumbling onto Cory's plan at exactly the right moment, to gaining the Mark and the only means of closing the rifts, to surviving the Fade, to being almost immediately surrounded by wealth, armies, and an exceptionally capable inner circle, to uncovering Cory's plans, surviving Haven and hundreds of battles, deciding who sits on the Throne of Orlais, uncovering ancient mysteries left and right, and on, and on... During the game, both Varric and Cassandra can remark that you were exactly what they needed, right when they needed it.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Sept 2, 2020 22:15:57 GMT
During the game, both Varric and Cassandra can remark that you were exactly what they needed, right when they needed it. I strike that down to lack of writer foresight to give an explanation, which we might see in a game or two later. Or ... Hey, it's not like we are owed an answer, right?
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Post by Rascoth on Sept 2, 2020 22:25:06 GMT
. The Inquisitor for example - there had to be a higher power at work for everything in their life to fall into place just so. From stumbling onto Cory's plan at exactly the right moment, to gaining the Mark and the only means of closing the rifts, to surviving the Fade, to being almost immediately surrounded by wealth, armies, and an exceptionally capable inner circle, to uncovering Cory's plans, surviving Haven and hundreds of battles, deciding who sits on the Throne of Orlais, uncovering ancient mysteries left and right, and on, and on... This reminds me of remark Inquisitor can make after meeting Flemythal, saying she might have arranged more than just their meeting.
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Post by smilesja on Sept 2, 2020 22:25:10 GMT
I think Bioware will remain silent on whether The Maker exists, that being said it's quite interesting how other faiths are unravelling to be something they're not.
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Post by Iakus on Sept 2, 2020 22:27:34 GMT
That was the plan, sure. Now though, it definitely feels like they're going to give an answer soon. I'm of two thoughts on this... On the one hand, I fully expect the Chantry to be hit with a major crisis of faith once they learn that major pillars of their faith are just... wrong. Some won't believe it, others will abandon the Chantry... it'll be a mess. On the other hand, one can argue there is a "Higher Power", just maybe not the Chantry's. The Inquisitor for example - there had to be a higher power at work for everything in their life to fall into place just so. From stumbling onto Cory's plan at exactly the right moment, to gaining the Mark and the only means of closing the rifts, to surviving the Fade, to being almost immediately surrounded by wealth, armies, and an exceptionally capable inner circle, to uncovering Cory's plans, surviving Haven and hundreds of battles, deciding who sits on the Throne of Orlais, uncovering ancient mysteries left and right, and on, and on... During the game, both Varric and Cassandra can remark that you were exactly what they needed, right when they needed it.
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Post by necrowaif on Sept 2, 2020 22:28:41 GMT
The Chantry hasn't really been completely unravelled, however. Oh sure, the Maker didn't create the Veil, but we also know the world that existed before the Veil was also not created by the fake Dalish pantheon. And while we can attribute the creation of the dwarves to the Titans, what about the elves, humans and qunari? What about the Fade itself and the spirits that populate it?
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Post by Hrungr on Sept 2, 2020 22:35:41 GMT
The Chantry hasn't really been completely unravelled, however. Oh sure, the Maker didn't create the Veil, but the world that existed before the Veil was also not created by the fake Dalish gods. And while we can attribute the creation of the dwarves to the Titans, what about the elves, humans and qunari? I was speaking more about DA4 and beyond. The Chantry (and followers) at large aren't even aware of we've uncovered so far. But I have a feeling we're going up-end the their apple cart in a big way down the line.
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Post by azarhal on Sept 2, 2020 22:52:07 GMT
That was the plan, sure. Now though, it definitely feels like they're going to give an answer soon. I'm of two thoughts on this... On the one hand, I fully expect the Chantry to be hit with a major crisis of faith once they learn that major pillars of their faith are just... wrong. Some won't believe it, others will abandon the Chantry... it'll be a mess. On the other hand, one can argue there is a "Higher Power", just maybe not the Chantry's. The Inquisitor for example - there had to be a higher power at work for everything in their life to fall into place just so. From stumbling onto Cory's plan at exactly the right moment, to gaining the Mark and the only means of closing the rifts, to surviving the Fade, to being almost immediately surrounded by wealth, armies, and an exceptionally capable inner circle, to uncovering Cory's plans, surviving Haven and hundreds of battles, deciding who sits on the Throne of Orlais, uncovering ancient mysteries left and right, and on, and on... During the game, both Varric and Cassandra can remark that you were exactly what they needed, right when they needed it. Cassandra's view of the Maker (and Leliana's too) is mostly a concept of "preordained fate", where the Maker send signs and/or make things happens as they should. This actually goes against Chantry teaching that he is gone, gone, gone. The Left and Right Hands of the Divine were technically heretics (Leliana even admits it in DAO). And Flemeth says she can't decided if "this is fate or luck" in DA2 as well, which means she also feels like there is some preordained fate at work. Preordained fate requires some sort of "higher power". Also, people go around claiming the Maker didn't create the Veil because Solas did it. But others can counter with "the Maker created the Veil through Solas" just like the Inquisitor was exactly what they needed, right when they needed it.
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Post by colfoley on Sept 2, 2020 23:06:52 GMT
It will depend on which force is in power in the Chantry when this shit hits the fan and who is on top of the roost in any potential aftermath.
The 'we can adapt with the times' crowd (just for lack of a better term), Cassandra/ Leiliana/ Giselle/ Elfina...those types can show that their faith can be have a certain degree of 'maleability' to it where they can incorporate new revelations into official Chantry Doctrine and ride out the storm.
Or the more 'Conservative' (again for lack of a better term) elements who will probably react to any new revelations with reactionism, suspcion, fear, violence, and oppression. They will try and stamp out anything that challenges Chantry orthodoxy on any subject.
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Post by Iddy on Sept 2, 2020 23:18:39 GMT
Well, it seems we're getting more better quality art from the trailer "Dread Wolf" Ehh... that outfit doesn't look elfy enough to me. Just generic Voldemort robes.
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Post by Iddy on Sept 2, 2020 23:22:08 GMT
Even stranger, the thaig the red lyrium idol was in predated the Blights. Yeah...which had me curious when we learned about the red lyrium having blight at all As Varric put it "the two most dangerous things combined"...it's curious as to where it (and darkspawn in general) really came from
I haven't read Tevinter Nights...but from what I gathered, Ghilan'nain was doing some very dubious experiments...who's to say the Blight wasn't something she created as well?
Then again...I sincerely hope not everything boils down to "the elves did it" The elves did it tho
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Post by Hrungr on Sept 2, 2020 23:38:29 GMT
I'm of two thoughts on this... On the one hand, I fully expect the Chantry to be hit with a major crisis of faith once they learn that major pillars of their faith are just... wrong. Some won't believe it, others will abandon the Chantry... it'll be a mess. On the other hand, one can argue there is a "Higher Power", just maybe not the Chantry's. The Inquisitor for example - there had to be a higher power at work for everything in their life to fall into place just so. From stumbling onto Cory's plan at exactly the right moment, to gaining the Mark and the only means of closing the rifts, to surviving the Fade, to being almost immediately surrounded by wealth, armies, and an exceptionally capable inner circle, to uncovering Cory's plans, surviving Haven and hundreds of battles, deciding who sits on the Throne of Orlais, uncovering ancient mysteries left and right, and on, and on... During the game, both Varric and Cassandra can remark that you were exactly what they needed, right when they needed it. Cassandra's view of the Maker (and Leliana's too) is mostly a concept of "preordained fate", where the Maker send signs and/or make things happens as they should. This actually goes against Chantry teaching that he is gone, gone, gone. The Left and Right Hands of the Divine were technically heretics (Leliana even admits it in DAO). And Flemeth says she can't decided if "this is fate or luck" in DA2 as well, which means she also feels like there is some preordained fate at work. Preordained fate requires some sort of "higher power". Also, people go around claiming the Maker didn't create the Veil because Solas did it. But others can counter with "the Maker created the Veil through Solas" just like the Inquisitor was exactly what they needed, right when they needed it. Think even bigger - like when they find out that the "Golden City" and "seat of the Maker"... wasn't. It was never the Maker's city, but say... a subjugated, and later blighted Titan. Though there was throne, but it was a godlike Elf/Evanuris who sat upon it (or something equally damaging). Andraste's another figure we've already gotten hints that there's more to her story - potential there too. There are the makings of a fun (Da Vinci Code-esque) subplot though - the heroes learn something so damaging to the Chantry that they try to silence you (say, via the new Left Hand of the Divine & friends). Extra points if your Divine choice (reluctantly) sanctions it.
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Post by colfoley on Sept 2, 2020 23:51:34 GMT
Cassandra's view of the Maker (and Leliana's too) is mostly a concept of "preordained fate", where the Maker send signs and/or make things happens as they should. This actually goes against Chantry teaching that he is gone, gone, gone. The Left and Right Hands of the Divine were technically heretics (Leliana even admits it in DAO). And Flemeth says she can't decided if "this is fate or luck" in DA2 as well, which means she also feels like there is some preordained fate at work. Preordained fate requires some sort of "higher power". Also, people go around claiming the Maker didn't create the Veil because Solas did it. But others can counter with "the Maker created the Veil through Solas" just like the Inquisitor was exactly what they needed, right when they needed it. Think even bigger - like when they find out that the "Golden City" and "seat of the Maker"... wasn't. It was never the Maker's city, but say... a subjugated, and later blighted Titan. Though there was throne, but it was a godlike Elf/Evanuris who sat upon it (or something equally damaging). Andraste's another figure we're already gotten hints that there's more to her story - potential there too. There are the makings of a fun (Da Vinci Code-esque) subplot though - the heroes learn something so damaging to the Chantry that they try to silence you (say, via the new Left Hand of the Divine & friends). Extra points if your Divine choice (reluctantly) sanctions it. I'll one up this and say what if 'the maker' ends up being a blighted titan or Evanuris?
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Sept 3, 2020 0:01:01 GMT
Think even bigger - like when they find out that the "Golden City" and "seat of the Maker"... wasn't. It was never the Maker's city, but say... a subjugated, and later blighted Titan. Though there was throne, but it was a godlike Elf/Evanuris who sat upon it (or something equally damaging). Andraste's another figure we're already gotten hints that there's more to her story - potential there too. There are the makings of a fun (Da Vinci Code-esque) subplot though - the heroes learn something so damaging to the Chantry that they try to silence you (say, via the new Left Hand of the Divine & friends). Extra points if your Divine choice (reluctantly) sanctions it. I'll one up this and say what if 'the maker' ends up being a blighted titan or Evanuris? Or the Sun that gave birth to Elgar'nan and he buried in the earth, ie maybe stuck in a titan which for all we know might be the source of the blight.
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