azarhal
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by azarhal on Sept 3, 2020 11:56:02 GMT
Whatever the Black City turns out to be, it's got nothing to do with the Maker as the Chantry conceives him. It could pre-date the Enuvaris for all we know. And there are some legends/codexes that suggest it was put up there to be out of reach by "someone". And that tales is represented in Elvish, Almarri/Avvar and the Eluvia tales (which is linked to Tevinter). Someone really didn't want that story to be forgotten. And based on correlation between a bunch of tales/legends, it would have been where Lake Calenhad was. then willingly turn yourselves into Uber-Darkspawn. If nothing else, it would make for an... interesting final battle. Could this be what Solas is planning to do? Hence saying he in walking on the path of death and would not have you see what he becomes? He really got his new plan from Corypheus haven't he? So much improvisation. The Taint and Red Lyrium, what can't go wrong? I don't think DA4 is going to be a redux of DAI, but I can't shake the feeling Solas is going to be Cory v2.0.
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Post by Kappa Neko on Sept 3, 2020 12:05:09 GMT
I still don't hate the mages though, but I am getting a bit tired by the whole "the elves/mages did it"...have someone else f*ck up for a change in fact, I sincerely hope the "betraying" party member in the next game is not a mage...I mean, just for variance I DO hate mages by now because they ALWAYS turn into abominations and get people killed in the end. Every. Single. Time. Some apostate ass declares that they've got a handle on things and that it will never happen to them. And then five minutes later you hear the screams... Ugh. As far as I'm concerned, Dorian is the only mage who's not crazy or doing something really stupid. (Looking at you, Merrill!) In DAO I was all "Free mages, burn down the circle!" After DAI I'm like "Yeah, lock them all up together with the elves and throw away the key. In fact, burn all of Thedas down and start over." LOL.
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LadyofNemesis
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Sept 3, 2020 12:17:33 GMT
I still don't hate the mages though, but I am getting a bit tired by the whole "the elves/mages did it"...have someone else f*ck up for a change in fact, I sincerely hope the "betraying" party member in the next game is not a mage...I mean, just for variance I DO hate mages by now because they ALWAYS turn into abominations and get people killed in the end. Every. Single. Time. Some apostate ass declares that they've got a handle on things and that it will never happen to them. And then five minutes later you hear the screams... Ugh. As far as I'm concerned, Dorian is the only mage who's not crazy or doing something really stupid. (Looking at you, Merrill!) In DAO I was all "Free mages, burn down the circle!" After DAI I'm like "Yeah, lock them all up together with the elves and throw away the key. In fact, burn all of Thedas down and start over." LOL. *shrug* to each their own
though to be fair, I'm more in love with the elven types found in Elder Scrolls games you've got your holier-than-thou magic loving Altmer who just love making people bow to them, also they'll steal/destroy your religion then there's the Bosmer...who are religious cannibals, who will kill (and likely eat) you if you hurt their trees,
and of course the Dunmer...who (most of them) are daedra worshiping slave traders and all out nasty
And of course I love subverting those tropes by making a Dunmer who's a healer, or a heavy armor huge sword flinging Altmer
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Post by Gilli on Sept 3, 2020 12:27:13 GMT
She never really knew what that is Seems like they were practicing Sera and Bull's combat strategy even before they came up with it She never really knew what that is That image looks like a cheerleader tower that has gone horribly wrong! Those three were really in sync in combat
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Post by Sharable Horizon on Sept 3, 2020 14:39:44 GMT
Whatever the Black City turns out to be, it's got nothing to do with the Maker as the Chantry conceives him. It could pre-date the Enuvaris for all we know. And there are some legends/codexes that suggest it was put up there to be out of reach by "someone". And that tales is represented in Elvish, Almarri/Avvar and the Eluvia tales (which is linked to Tevinter). Someone really didn't want that story to be forgotten. And based on correlation between a bunch of tales/legends, it would have been where Lake Calenhad was. I've always thought that the black city was the original prison for Elgar'nan's father "the sun." If we believe the elvish tales then the sun was the original being, that all other spirits and forms of life originated from. It was then imprisoned by Elgar'nan, set free again and had a shell built around it in the heavens which the dalish believe was the moon... What if it wasn't the moon but the golden city? Elgar'nan does not strike me as the type of guy who'd let a defeated enemy wander with promises to return each night. No, he strikes me as the type who'd proudly display his power and what better way to display his new trophy, then with a gilded cage that all can see. The thing is, the sun (or maker... ) strikes me as quite a childlike being - it once torched the world after Elgar'nan spent to long there! If it actually was subdued by promise of being freed each day, then who knows how it would react to being imprisoned for time uncounted with no visitors. Maybe its gilded cage would blacken with its rage... Thats my crazy, tinfoil theory anyway!
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Post by pessimistpanda on Sept 3, 2020 14:43:44 GMT
So, if the sun was stuck inside a moon, how does elven mythology explain the continued presence of the sun?
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Sept 3, 2020 14:50:06 GMT
Then again her enemies always were only half there
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Post by Sharable Horizon on Sept 3, 2020 14:52:20 GMT
pessimistpanda: So the dalish myth states: It was at this moment that Mythal walked out of the sea of the earth's tears and onto the land. She placed her hand on Elgar'nan's brow, and at her touch he grew calm and knew that his anger had led him astray. Humbled, Elgar'nan went to the place where the sun was buried and spoke to him. Elgar'nan said he would release the sun if the sun promised to be gentle and to return to the earth each night. The sun, feeling remorse at what he had done, agreed.
And so the sun rose again in the sky, and shone his golden light upon the earth. Elgar'nan and Mythal, with the help of the earth and the sun, brought back to life all the wondrous things that the sun had destroyed, and they grew and thrived. And that night, when the sun had gone to sleep, Mythal gathered the glowing earth around his bed, and formed it into a sphere to be placed in the sky, a pale reflection of the sun's true glory.
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Post by Kappa Neko on Sept 3, 2020 14:54:02 GMT
then there's the Bosmer...who are religious cannibals, who will kill (and likely eat) you if you hurt their trees, I love the bosmer! My first character was a bosmer archer who joined the Thieves Guild and no other. She adopted kids but didn't marry. I got her two bosmer children via mod after the vanilla orphans mysteriously disappeared and were never found again... I find it toally legit to kill people if they touch my trees.
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Sept 3, 2020 14:54:28 GMT
It could pre-date the Enuvaris for all we know. And there are some legends/codexes that suggest it was put up there to be out of reach by "someone". And that tales is represented in Elvish, Almarri/Avvar and the Eluvia tales (which is linked to Tevinter). Someone really didn't want that story to be forgotten. And based on correlation between a bunch of tales/legends, it would have been where Lake Calenhad was. I've always thought that the black city was the original prison for Elgar'nan's father "the sun." If we believe the elvish tales then the sun was the original being, that all other spirits and forms of life originated from. It was then imprisoned by Elgar'nan, set free again and had a shell built around it in the heavens which the dalish believe was the moon... What if it wasn't the moon but the golden city? Elgar'nan does not strike me as the type of guy who'd let a defeated enemy wander with promises to return each night. No, he strikes me as the type who'd proudly display his power and what better way to display his new trophy, then with a gilded cage that all can see. The thing is, the sun (or maker... ) strikes me as quite a childlike being - it once torched the world after Elgar'nan spent to long there! If it actually was subdued by promise of being freed each day, then who knows how it would react to being imprisoned for time uncounted with no visitors. Maybe its gilded cage would blacken with its rage... Thats my crazy, tinfoil theory anyway! Not to poke holes in this, but I thought Mythal was associated with the moon?
EDIT: Ah, nevermind that explains it.
pessimistpanda : So the dalish myth states: It was at this moment that Mythal walked out of the sea of the earth's tears and onto the land. She placed her hand on Elgar'nan's brow, and at her touch he grew calm and knew that his anger had led him astray. Humbled, Elgar'nan went to the place where the sun was buried and spoke to him. Elgar'nan said he would release the sun if the sun promised to be gentle and to return to the earth each night. The sun, feeling remorse at what he had done, agreed.
And so the sun rose again in the sky, and shone his golden light upon the earth. Elgar'nan and Mythal, with the help of the earth and the sun, brought back to life all the wondrous things that the sun had destroyed, and they grew and thrived. And that night, when the sun had gone to sleep, Mythal gathered the glowing earth around his bed, and formed it into a sphere to be placed in the sky, a pale reflection of the sun's true glory.
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Sharable Horizon
N3
Lvl 31 Rogue God Emperor
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
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Post by Sharable Horizon on Sept 3, 2020 15:05:44 GMT
AlleluiaElizabeth: Ahaha! No doubt this theory has more holes in than swiss cheese! It's been solely constructed upon foundations of sketchy DA lore knowledge, sleep deprivation and shower thoughts - feel free to tear it apart!
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Post by Reznore on Sept 3, 2020 15:09:16 GMT
AlleluiaElizabeth : Ahaha! No doubt this theory has more holes in than swiss cheese! It's been solely constructed upon foundations of sketchy DA lore knowledge, sleep deprivation and shower thoughts - feel free to tear it apart! That's the best way to theorize about Dragon Age !
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Post by Iakus on Sept 3, 2020 16:07:34 GMT
That was the plan, sure. Now though, it definitely feels like they're going to give an answer soon. I think Bioware will remain silent on whether The Maker exists, that being said it's quite interesting how other faiths are unravelling to be something they're not. And they should. Bioware created a sort of Morton's fork situation. If they outright confirm or the deny the existence of the Maker, either way they are going to piss of half of the fanbase. If they continue to unravel the other beliefs without giving out *something* about the Maker, we end up with the frankly disturbing "Andrastianism (i.e. inverted Christianity) is the only valid faith" message that DAI already cooks up in some situations. If they want to avoid that latter pitfall, they would need to make sure that "whatever it is" which Andraste and the Chantry call "Maker" is totally different from how it has been interpreted until now, even by the prophet herself. If one insists that a creater deity/god/whatever is just as much involved that its existence could be either proven via suspiciously benificial circumstances, but not seen more directly, just make things easy and ignore the concept completely. Save the headache and prevents "Works in mysterious ways" BS excuse for exploitive organisations.
Which Chantry, the Black or the White? One of the interesting things about DAI is showing how even people who believe in the Chantry, or at least Andraste, can differ on specifics.
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Post by smilesja on Sept 3, 2020 16:23:32 GMT
Even stranger, the thaig the red lyrium idol was in predated the Blights. Yeah...which had me curious when we learned about the red lyrium having blight at all As Varric put it "the two most dangerous things combined"...it's curious as to where it (and darkspawn in general) really came from
I haven't read Tevinter Nights...but from what I gathered, Ghilan'nain was doing some very dubious experiments...who's to say the Blight wasn't something she created as well?
Then again...I sincerely hope not everything boils down to "the elves did it" Looks like the only good Elf is a dead Elf!
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LadyofNemesis
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Sept 3, 2020 17:00:58 GMT
then there's the Bosmer...who are religious cannibals, who will kill (and likely eat) you if you hurt their trees, I love the bosmer! My first character was a bosmer archer who joined the Thieves Guild and no other. She adopted kids but didn't marry. I got her two bosmer children via mod after the vanilla orphans mysteriously disappeared and were never found again... I find it toally legit to kill people if they touch my trees. my longest character was a dunmer...eventually had her join every guild, did every quest I could find and even married and got her some kids ...then she ended up a recluse on Soltheim because she got tired of having to run everything, never even returned home anymore
I'm currently remaking her but with a different build (before she was a sneak archer, now she's a mage focusing on destruction + restoration) I plan to have her join the College of Winterhold and Dawnguard...to bad the Civil war is mandatory or else I'd have her ignore it, she's not one for politics
thankfully with use of some mods I don't get cluttered journals anymore...and most guild officials no longer approach her it's still hilarious to have Farkas walk past my mage and cheerfully tell her "you look strong, come to Jorrvaskr and be a Companion!" I look at her scrawny hide and I'm like..."are you talking to me or the tall dude who's following me?"
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Post by Buckeldemon on Sept 3, 2020 17:16:54 GMT
If they continue to unravel the other beliefs without giving out *something* about the Maker, we end up with the frankly disturbing "Andrastianism (i.e. inverted Christianity) is the only valid faith" message that DAI already cooks up in some situations. I don't think that's really a concern. If anything, far from "unravelling" the other faiths, the Elven mythos seems to have the closest resemblance to actual history so far. We've learned that the Elven gods genuinely exist (after a fashion), and that the 'Golden/Black City' seems to be their Arlathan, and not the seat of the human 'Maker'. If the Chantry is wrong about such basic facts as that, it follows that they are very likely also wrong about a lot of other things. But even if all the other faiths were openly disproven and Andrastianism was not, that doesn't mean that the logical conclusion is "Andrastianism is correct". There's still the possibility of no Maker at all, or any number of infinite possibilities that the cultures of Thedas simply didn't think of. I don't disagree in principle, it is just that... ugh, so many player seem to really enjoy the "Dalish got it all wrong!!!" / "False gods" rhetoric. Besides, since faith isn't logical, the inclined "vague asshole übergod" monotheist can butt-pull early anything to make their shit seem legit. I sincerely hope not everything boils down to "the elves did it" We all know that's EXACTLY what it will boils down to, right? Dragon Age's biggest accomplishment has been to make me both an elf and a mage hater, lol. The ancient elves were jerks. And even the modern Dalish are jerks. I love elves in fantasy games as tree hugging hippies and always play elves when I get the chance. But man, in Dragon Age they can all go the hell! Hah, I recognise that as well, but I'm more likely going to hate the increasingly one-sided writing. Bioware could really stop pushing the "What measure is a non-human (or non-normie)?" thing. Remebers me a bit of certain exchanges concerning Mass Effect3, with some jerking off about wanting collectively punish all asari for their government (a.k.a. Matriarch Mafia) hiding the Thessia beacon, while at the same time, nobody considered collectively punishing humanity for not clearing up their Cerberus mess until the very end and more importantly, public support for the space nazi mary sues apparently being common even after the Citadel coup. To be fair, ever since playing the City Elf origin, I've started to love the city elves more then I do the Dalish.
They tried to make their own culture by mixing things from the past and future, keep to their own and fight back if need be. I still don't hate the mages though, but I am getting a bit tired by the whole "the elves/mages did it"...have someone else f*ck up for a change in fact, I sincerely hope the "betraying" party member in the next game is not a mage...I mean, just for variance Eh, for me it was the other way around. My very first elf in DAO was a Tabris, and I was kinda grossed out on how the city elves let themselves be kicked around. I know where that mindset comes from, but I don't need to like it. These days, I tend to "judge" elves individually. But, which thing from the future they mixed with older elven stuff? +1 for mentioning antagonists who are not "gotta blow up the world" mages. Disregarding my personal opinion about her, I'd say we need another Meredith-style antagonist.
though to be fair, I'm more in love with the elven types found in Elder Scrolls games you've got your holier-than-thou magic loving Altmer who just love making people bow to them, also they'll steal/destroy your religion then there's the Bosmer...who are religious cannibals, who will kill (and likely eat) you if you hurt their trees,
and of course the Dunmer...who (most of them) are daedra worshiping slave traders and all out nasty And of course I love subverting those tropes by making a Dunmer who's a healer, or a heavy armor huge sword flinging Altmer @ Altmer: Uh... I thought you don't like the Stormcloaks much? Besides Altmer=/=Thalmor, once you strip away all the "OMG, TAAAAALOOOOS!!!!" Nord bias and all the butthurt-ness of Delphine away, one might just take that as elves who do not want worship an imperialist, overhyped human war-monger. With that being said, the main cliche of the Altmer seems to be perfectionism or obsession. Remember that old alchemist dude in Windhelm? @ Bosmer: Well, if you like meat and someone wants to kill you, why not finish them off and eat them instead of ransacking you garden for food? @ Dunmer: And you, good lady should not rant about deadra worship, else uncle Sheo will hear about it. Oh, and what's so bad about Azura? She isn't much different from Akatosh or the more grey imperial divines.
Oh, and I'll just have to mention that of the four main human races, the Bretons are the only ones who have not successfully genocided a race of elves yet. then there's the Bosmer...who are religious cannibals, who will kill (and likely eat) you if you hurt their trees, I love the bosmer! My first character was a bosmer archer who joined the Thieves Guild and no other. She adopted kids but didn't marry. I got her two bosmer children via mod after the vanilla orphans mysteriously disappeared and were never found again... I find it toally legit to kill people if they touch my trees. Don't forget to eat them afterwards. Nothing shall go to waste. Which Chantry, the Black or the White? One of the interesting things about DAI is showing how even people who believe in the Chantry, or at least Andraste, can differ on specifics. The orlesian one of course, the 'vint Chantry has icky mages. I'd would want some "faithfuls" to be shown who have nothing to do with Maker/Andraste and who aren't just dismissed as "that's nothing, because their gods are just spirits" (Avvar, possibly Rivain) or "they are wrong"/"their gods are false" (Who decides that anyway?) /they are either getting one-sidedly bad depiction or just regularly killed off (Dalish). Regardless of what some people might think, faith is not a uniquely andrastian/christian/abrahamitic/monotheistic thing.
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 3, 2020 17:24:14 GMT
One of the interesting things about DAI is showing how even people who believe in the Chantry, or at least Andraste, can differ on specifics. There used to be a lot more than just two versions of the Andrastrian faith before the Chantry was founded but Drakon wiped them out. The codex by the Chantry scholar makes it sound like some of them were just mostly odd cults but in fact every tribe had its own version of the faith. The only prerequisite seemed to be that you worshiped the Maker in some way, either on his own or as part of a pantheon of other gods, as evidenced by Ameridan. The Drakon decided to "simplify" things.
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LadyofNemesis
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Sept 3, 2020 17:29:31 GMT
1) Eh, for me it was the other way around. My very first elf in DAO was a Tabris, and I was kinda grossed out on how the city elves let themselves be kicked around. I know where that mindset comes from, but I don't need to like it. These days, I tend to "judge" elves individually. But, which thing from the future they mixed with older elven stuff? +1 for mentioning antagonists who are not "gotta blow up the world" mages. Disregarding my personal opinion about her, I'd say we need another Meredith-style antagonist.
<abbr>2)</abbr> @ Altmer: Uh... I thought you don't like the Stormcloaks much? Besides Altmer=/=Thalmor, once you strip away all the "OMG, TAAAAALOOOOS!!!!" Nord bias and all the butthurt-ness of Delphine away, one might just take that as elves who do not want worship an imperialist, overhyped human war-monger. With that being said, the main cliche of the Altmer seems to be perfectionism or obsession. Remember that old alchemist dude in Windhelm? @ Bosmer: Well, if you like meat and someone wants to kill you, why not finish them off and eat them instead of ransacking you garden for food? @ Dunmer: And you, good lady should not rant about deadra worship, else uncle Sheo will hear about it. Oh, and what's so bad about Azura? She isn't much different from Akatosh or the more grey imperial divines.
3) Oh, and I'll just have to mention that of the four main human races, the Bretons are the only ones who have not successfully genocided a race of elves yet. 1) I more meant that the City Elves seem to have mixed certain things from their old elven beliefs together with the believes of the humans it's by no means perfect (especially given how the humans are treating them) but I can admire wanting to strife to create something new despite the circumstances.
I personally think we need more villains indeed, like Meredith or like Loghain. People who believe they're doing the right thing but go about it the wrong way. Sure, Solas is of that variety...but he also had a dash of Anders where he feels "the end justifies the means"
2) I don't like the Stormcloaks as a group...but I do admire Ulfric as an individual...sad to say he dies in about 90% of my playthroughs psh...uncle Sheo and I are pals...we both like cheese (don't disrespect cheese) As for Azura...err...she's known to trap souls (I mean, Azura's star is a soul gem)...and is apparently responsible for creating the Dunmer in the first place (which according to the lore wasn't a gentle process). They still adore her though, which is why they tend to yell out "by Azura!" about 99% of the time
3) Which is why Breton's are my second favorite Elder Scrolls race...plus their racial ability is handy
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Post by Hrungr on Sept 3, 2020 17:29:48 GMT
Here's a higher quality version of the Lord of Fortune(?) concept art.
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Sept 3, 2020 17:32:58 GMT
Here's a higher quality version of the Lord of Fortune(?) concept art. things I want to know when I see this one
1) who's this dude
2) where is this and what happened to set the ship on fire
and 3) is he going to be a companion, because we need a pirate (yes I know Isabela was technically a pirate...but I want a dude version)
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Post by Hrungr on Sept 3, 2020 17:44:15 GMT
Here's a higher quality version of the Lord of Fortune(?) concept art. things I want to know when I see this one 1) who's this dude
2) where is this and what happened to set the ship on fire and 3) is he going to be a companion, because we need a pirate (yes I know Isabela was technically a pirate...but I want a dude version)
Well he's standing there like he just solo'd that Qunari Dreadnought, so I'm guessing he's pretty tough, whoever he is. He's got a lot of bling and a similar necklace to Isabella, so pirate/LoF. As for the ship, I'm guessing he set their explosive powder on fire, similar to IB's personal quest. Companion? Major NPC? Hard to say yet. He doesn't show up in any of the other concept art.
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Post by Iakus on Sept 3, 2020 17:44:25 GMT
One of the interesting things about DAI is showing how even people who believe in the Chantry, or at least Andraste, can differ on specifics. There used to be a lot more than just two versions of the Andrastrian faith before the Chantry was founded but Drakon wiped them out. The codex by the Chantry scholar makes it sound like some of them were just mostly odd cults but in fact every tribe had its own version of the faith. The only prerequisite seemed to be that you worshiped the Maker in some way, either on his own or as part of a pantheon of other gods, as evidenced by Ameridan. The Drakon decided to "simplify" things. Even when down to two Chantries, there's plenty of wiggle room. Consider: Leliana, Cassandra, and Vivienne can all become Divine, but all three have different ideas on how the Chantry should be run. Then you have personal beliefs. I mean, Sera, Dorian, and Varric are all Andrastrean, but they approach it in very different ways.
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LadyofNemesis
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Sept 3, 2020 17:51:41 GMT
Well he's standing there like he just solo'd that Qunari Dreadnought, so I'm guessing he's pretty tough, whoever he is. He's got a lot of bling and a similar necklace to Isabella, so pirate/LoF. As for the ship, I'm guessing he set their explosive powder on fire, similar to IB's personal quest. Companion? Major NPC? Hard to say yet. He doesn't show up in any of the other concept art. *nodding in agreement*
I can't wait for Bioware to eventually reveal the actual companions, I always find that the most exciting part
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Post by Rascoth on Sept 3, 2020 17:55:24 GMT
Well he's standing there like he just solo'd that Qunari Dreadnought, so I'm guessing he's pretty tough, whoever he is. . Solo'd the Dreadnought... Nah, I bet someone just tripped while moving gaatlok
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 3, 2020 18:10:17 GMT
Consider: Leliana, Cassandra, and Vivienne can all become Divine, but all three have different ideas on how the Chantry should be run. It's not just how the Chantry is run, at least two of them are overturning 800 years of traditional belief. The Circles were not always as they became, originally seeming have been places of authorised magical research rather than places where all mages were locked away regardless, but right from the beginning mages were not meant to hold positions of power or become rulers, so in some ways having Vivienne as Divine was even more radical than Leliana admitting other races to the clergy, allowing clerics to marry or restoring the Canticle of Shartan to the Chant. Originally the Chantry didn't have Circles or Templars, so getting rid of them could be said to reverting how things were done to begin with. Sera is rather like Giselle in that if something seems to threaten their understanding of the faith, they simply go into denial. When confronted with the Temple of Mythal and the fact that it seems to confirm there were elven gods, she rightly decides that doesn't reconcile with what the Chant says about the history of the world, so clearly the Temple was just a ruin full of demons. When you say the Corypheus says there was no Maker in the Golden City, Giselle just implies that as he is evil and corrupt, you shouldn't believe anything he says. Dorian tells us that basically all he believes in is the Maker and that is it, but he does tell us that the Imperial Chantry preach that Andraste was a mage and a mortal woman, not some semi-divine bride of the Maker. Also Tevinter wasn't responsible for the Blights, which is true in a way because it was either the fault of just 7 Magisters or the fault of another race entirely. Varric is pretty much like Dorian in that he believes in a Maker. Again that's it. None of Sera, Dorian or Varric is really challenging Chantry dogma at all and in the case of the latter two, since the Maker is never going to be proven one way or another and they don't expect him to act, their faith isn't going to be shaken at all by any other revelations.
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