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Post by KaiserShep on Sept 21, 2020 3:28:13 GMT
I guess a distinction would be an example of another typical live service game to compare, like, say, Destiny. That would be the worst case scenario for something like Dragon Age.
I've never played Destiny before so I am not aware of the specific live service elements of it, nor am I aware of the quality of its expansions... But in general from what I am aware of that Destiny does do the pretty typical live service thin of story expansions and content expansions over 'seasons', which include brand new stories for a player to play and enjoy, new missions/ quests, new adventures...new challenges. And I don't view that as a worst case scenario, in fact nothing could make me happier. If it's implemented in the fashion it is for Destiny, it would very much be a worst case scenario. In theory, seasonal content that adds new challenges and content to enjoy sounds great, but it's not so great if it's meager bits of actual new content, which funnels you into old content to complete with a repetition of a weekly activity resulting in just another lore tab to read. The Destiny franchise has not provided anything resembling substantial story content since the Forsaken DLC, and that was released in 2018, and its subsequent Shadowkeep DLC has a threadbare "narrative", a recycled (ahem "recontextualized") map and a raid. The seasons that fill up time between expansions can have some good ideas, unfortunately buried under menial busywork. The only reason to care is to pursue new weapons and armor and incrementally boosting your power level. If you're in it for the stories, you're in for a bad time. This is not a model Dragon Age or Mass Effect should ever follow. If I ever find myself caring about game challenges or loot over characters, I consider the game a failure.
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Post by colfoley on Sept 21, 2020 3:55:36 GMT
I've never played Destiny before so I am not aware of the specific live service elements of it, nor am I aware of the quality of its expansions... But in general from what I am aware of that Destiny does do the pretty typical live service thin of story expansions and content expansions over 'seasons', which include brand new stories for a player to play and enjoy, new missions/ quests, new adventures...new challenges. And I don't view that as a worst case scenario, in fact nothing could make me happier. If it's implemented in the fashion it is for Destiny, it would very much be a worst case scenario. In theory, seasonal content that adds new challenges and content to enjoy sounds great, but it's not so great if it's meager bits of actual new content, which funnels you into old content to complete with a repetition of a weekly activity resulting in just another lore tab to read. The Destiny franchise has not provided anything resembling substantial story content since the Forsaken DLC, and that was released in 2018, and its subsequent Shadowkeep DLC has a threadbare "narrative", a recycled (ahem "recontextualized") map and a raid. The seasons that fill up time between expansions can have some good ideas, unfortunately buried under menial busywork. The only reason to care is to pursue new weapons and armor and incrementally boosting your power level. If you're in it for the stories, you're in for a bad time. This is not a model Dragon Age or Mass Effect should ever follow. If I ever find myself caring about game challenges or loot over characters, I consider the game a failure. On that we can certainly agree and while the encouragement to grind can be a trap LS games fall into and even the dreaded 'Looter Shooters' that is not really indicitive of how things have to be. See Odyssey or either of the Ghost Recon games for starters (especially since the latter removed gear score)
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Post by Frost on Sept 21, 2020 4:50:53 GMT
I do hope we get a better spell repertoire. Tevinter is supposed to be the most advanced nation in Thedas when it comes to magic, so hopefully, we get more spells that can be used out of combat as well. A slight flick of the wrist here to compell someone. Discuss magical theory with a Senior Enchanter of a Tevinter Circle of Magi. Interrogate spirits/demons on what they know of the Dread Wolf. Help build our own house using magic or repair one in need of restoration? I eagerly await. Agree! A lot of what they have shown so far looks very rogue oriented (heists, lord of fortune, etc). I hope there is also a lot of mage-oriented content for a mage pc to go with the Tevinter setting.
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Post by Solas on Sept 21, 2020 5:42:32 GMT
I can see them having less locations in DA4 - DAI got criticized some for having big empty locations, and they tend to look at feedback on the prior game and adjust. I'd be ok with that, rather have a few less areas with more interesting sidequests and that are more thoughtfully crafted gameplay wise than a few more lower quality ones.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2020 8:42:27 GMT
I don't understand any enthusiasm for the prospect of DA4 going full live service and releasing new content for years. While that sounds nice, the only hard evidence we have of Bioware's track record is Anthem. And we all know how that went.
I hope they have learned lessons from Anthem, but that doesn't automatically mean DA4's live services will be good, just better than awful. Not a high bar to reach.
Plus there's the possibility that these live services will depend on certain level of sales (base game or microtransactions?) to continue. So if the base game leaves out loads of content because that content is meant to be introduced through live services, but then live services end six months after launch, there's all of this story content which will have to wait until the next game if at all. Many people are already annoyed at how dangling plots from DA2 pushed content into DAI, causing the Solas story to shift into DA4.
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Post by Grog Muffins on Sept 21, 2020 8:55:46 GMT
Ah in that case: 1. In general I support more content for these games as long as they continue to maintain quality. 2. Now in theory the main benefit of this sort of thing is to make it easier to wait in between these massive games. I have heard that DLC takes less people/ resources to develop then a full game so they can move on a team to DA 5 and we get more content on 4 in the meantime. Of course this whole model might require a little adjustment in the chain and it might not be for every franchise but at this point we'll just have to see... 3. If we do not get a DA 5 this could drip feed us content over an extended period of time and give us a chance to wrap up Dragon Age in future years within this game's lifespan. Problem is they've sort of showed us with SWTOR that we might have some basis for worry. 1. Complexity and quality Vanilla SWTOR had 8 different class stories (of varying overall quality, sure) with some thought-provoking themes being discussed in each of them. The first expansion, Rise of the Hutt Cartel, had its story be separate based only on faction and the overall quality of the writing was pretty good, with some interesting themes regarding exploitation and weapons development, interesting characters being introduced and the deconstruction of the Empire's ideals. The second expansion, Shadow of Revan, had its main story be the same regardless of class or faction with the only differences being the order in which you did the first 2 flashpoints in the prologue (do them in one order for the Republic, do them the other way around for the Empire) and one small optional quest based on your class which didn't impact the overall story at all. Theron and Lana were pretty interesting and well written, however Revan's portrayal and plan, as far as I remember, weren't well received at all. The last 2 big story expansions, KOTFE and KOTET, yet again had the same story regardless of class or faction and they also felt like they were written, first and foremost, for Force sensitive classes, and secondly, for the Sith Warrior and Jedi Knight, specifically. All flashpoints and smaller story installments meant to tide us over between the big ones, to me at least, felt very thin (not taking more than an hour to finish) and some of them were slogs to play through ( A Traitor Among the Chiss comes to mind ).2. Releases I'm more willing to be lenient for SWTOR because the team working on it has been getting smaller and smaller and I think now, with a lot of people in Austin working on Anthem, there's fewer people working on SWTOR then ever before, but I haven't been following the news about it for a while now so I could be wrong. What I can say is that, from what I remember after the release of the last big expansion, all other story installments always got delayed. The last installment, Onslaught, was released in October 2019 and it ended on a cliffhanger. They said the conclusion was going to come around April 2020. The pandemic hit and they didn't have the opportunity to record VO to release it in April (I think they plan to release it sometime this Fall?) but even if things still went according to plan, it still would have been 6 months between story installments, especially waiting for the resolution to a cliffhanger. And let me tell you, Onslaught was not a juggernaut of story in order to play Devil's advocate and say that at least we got a lot of story and 6 months would have been worth waiting. Unfortunately, with both SWTOR and Anthem as examples, I'm not sure just how much third time's the charm could work.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2020 8:55:53 GMT
nd it still wouldn't begin to make up for any two of the Blights. Only the Chantry says the Blights were caused by Modern Mages. (in the sense that since the creation of Tevinter is modern) A lot of lore reveals lately have actually indicated something more Titan and Elfy related. That's why I don't want this game to explore all of Northern Thedas. Just stick to Tevinter, Par Vollen, Seheron, and maybe the Anderfels. People think Antiva and Rivain should be in it too, but that should be next game. Tevinter, Seheron, Weishaupt, and Antiva considering all the crow artwork. Nevarra is technically geographically close, so they may play a part. I think being able to get as far as PAr Vollen, considering it's a Qunari stronghold (my gist) is a bit far for any of us to go. If we saved it and Rivain, which are close to each other geographically, it would seem almost a small DA5 game. But I'm not holding my breath for DA5. I want them to wrap up everything of importance in DA4 in case it fails or simply because I think DA5 should really break into a new place on the planet. Weishaupt is a gigantic but mostly empty castle fort, unless something has changed. So it doesn't really take up the same spot in resource consumption as a real city would have. So I've expect/hope to see 5 major cities and 5 bigger maps less full of people: - Minrathous,Tevinter
- Seheron, Seheron
- Antiva City, Antiva
- Nevarra City, Nevarra
- Dairsmuid, Rivain (as a possibility)
- Weishaupt, Anderfells (all the desert we need to see)
- Arlathan
- Crossroads place
- 100% Fade Place
- 100% Dwarfy Place, cuz we need some dwarf love. (ambassadoria is more of an extension of Minrathous, so I'd rather Kal Sharok)
(real imaginiative names they got going there for the biggest cities.).The only drawback of Nevarra is that it would cut out my "our sea ship is a base of operations" hopes. We would at least have to temporarily abandon said boat to go there, unless we somehow finangle an eluvian onto our boat. ... looking at the map more, I am a bit confused as to whether Antiva has any real estate along the Venefication sea *clicks around* it technically does, but all of it's named cities are along the Rialto Bay area. So if we have a boat as a our base of operations, I wonder how they could remove Rivain. So lets see how many full blown major map locations we got in Inquisition, not including DLC - Redcliffe and the Hinterlands with an town and an abandoned fort and some ruins and an old thaig underneath
- Mythal's temple and the Arbor Wilds
- Crestwood, the town of crestwood, old crestwood, underground caverns, and a fort
- Exalted Plains and Orlesian war ruins and a Dalish Clan and that lost to time Red Crossing thing. and a Swamp full of creatures.
- Emerald Graves (drawing a blank. There was a resistance group and rhinos with endless guard and a haunted chateau?)
- Storm Coast and a cult and ...water
- Emprise Du Lion and Sarhnia
- Fallow Mire had a dead village and a ruined fort
- Western Approach: The hot desert place with Grey Warden forts and an old but large elven ruin
- Hissing Wastes: the nighttime desert place that has um... Dwarven ruins
- Forbidden Oasis: That other hot desert place that you brought all those shards to.
That's 11 major maps. this doesn't count the additional locations like Haven, Skyhold, The Winter Palace was quite extensive, Val Royeous, Black Emporium, and places we went for resolution of companion side quests as well as several small maps within the bigger maps I didn't mention and/or recall. Oh yeah, the Nightmare Fade map was pretty huge.
I don't think it's impossible to do all of these places justice. you just gotta make them count in the sort of way DA2 made places count. We won't need to go to some random orlesian noble's castle to resolve a quest, because surely there is space available in one of these major cities to allow the event of the Fate of the Seekers Resolution. Just as Cole resolved his human/spirit quest in the Hinterlands. I'm fully on board with your list of locations. However, comparing the number of maps to DAI won't be conclusive, I don't think. A 1:1 comparison assumes that the density of maps would be the same, which would mean that we can only have one or two major urban areas. Most of DAI's maps were wilderness with a few interactive NPCs. If we want Minrathous and Antiva City and Nevarra City the number of maps would have to shrink drastically. Weishaupt may be fine if it's mostly empty. I would rather have fewer but more detailed locations than make sure to get as many countries represented as possible but have them as disappointing as Val Royeaux.
Ideal list: Minrathous Second Tevinter city Silent Plains Arlathan
Somewhere in Antiva (the city or crow headquarters?)
Weishaupt and surrounding area
Seheron (fog warrior town plus Qunari outpost)
Grand Necropolis
Kal Sharok
Obligatory fade (could be merged with Grand Necropolis?)
I doubt we will see Par Vollen. The game is going to focus on Tevinter and Seheron and sacked Ventus/Qarinus will be the Qunari zones. I also am not confident in seeing Rivain. That has enough of a distinctive culture that it deserves its own focus. Nevarra and Antiva have one major thing going for them (necromancers and assassins) so they can be glossed over quickly. And if the PC background will be a Lord of Fortune, we could follow the tradition of the PC operating outside of their homeland.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Sept 21, 2020 11:42:29 GMT
I'm more willing to be lenient for SWTOR because the team working on it has been getting smaller and smaller and I think now, with a lot of people in Austin working on Anthem, there's fewer people working on SWTOR then ever before I remember when Anthem released and the Schreier article was put up, Angry Joe, who lives in Austin, said the studio was a "ghost town" in one of the many videos he did on Anthem. I don't know if Bioware Austin has since been restaffed. I know there are job listings for Bioware Austin, I don't know if some mass recruiting was involved.
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Post by Absafraginlootly on Sept 23, 2020 8:35:04 GMT
Hmm, possible locations going East to West:
- Arlathan Forest, Mostly North Antiva but also stretches into North East Tevinter (It's a big forest man)
- Solas (the Town)/The Silent Plains, South Tevinter
- Vyrantium City, Central Tevinter,
- Minrathous City, North Tevinter
- Weisshaupt Fortress, South East Anderfels, Surprisingly close to the centre of Tevinter, moreso then some parts of Tevinter
- Kal Sharok Thaig/Hunterhorn Mountains, South West Tevinter
- The Fade & The Deeproads - probably smaller/more linear maps
Not necessarily the only places but they're ones that jump out.
Vyrantium has recently acquired a bunch of lore making me think we might be seeing more of it.
It seems to be the fashion capital of tevinter, Minrathous's sharpdressed sister, has a floating aqueduct, a network of magic secret passages run by elves in red whose entrance is hidden under a vhenadahl statue commemorating the burning of the real thing after a slave rebellion, and prominent altus venatori taking over the cult.
The Executor's robes were Vyrantium Samite trimmed in patterns Charter had never seen before.
And the mortalitasi in The Dread wolf Rises fears everything east of Vyrantium will be under Qunari control inside a year, and northern Antiva aswell. (I wonder if Arlathan forest is why they're making moves on antiva and breaking the accord despite not having fully secured Tevinter yet?)
I actually thought this was Vyrantium at first glance due to the city being on a river near the coast and the description of the architecture we got in the book (atleast one resident, a rich one, has a red clay tile roof, the tiles round in shape. And in front of that estate is a collection of domed rotundas encased in a zigzagging red and beige brick. The estate also possesses a circular courtyard surounded by a two-tierd arcade) but theres no famed floating viaduct in sight. I suppose it could be out of view.
While minrathous might be more like a main city and base/hub, vyrantium seems like it might be in a less stable situation, liable to suffer from qunari attack, and perhaps slave rebellion.
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Post by fairdragon on Sept 23, 2020 16:29:26 GMT
Wow, that's amazing. Is all that stuff they showed going to be in the game? I guess so. We'll they've got me hooked no matter how long I have to wait for it. Quick take out: From the concept picture is looks like 8 companions and people are going to get their wish for a female Qunari. The person on the far right as we look at it could be some sort of spirit? Or could that be an Executor? One of the companions is called Davrin. A skeleton from a Mortalitasi. You see it clearer in an other picture. So a spirit in a skeleton.
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Post by fairdragon on Sept 23, 2020 16:32:17 GMT
Yeah, holy shit - I was NOT expecting this. Me too. Can you (or someone else) please make a pic at 1:09?
I think that´s Harding (no surprise) and Dorian (big surprise) accompany the new female hero (Lord of Fortune?) So yeah Harding and Dorian maybe confirmed as companions?
Where do you see Harding?
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Post by fairdragon on Sept 23, 2020 16:41:07 GMT
Thanks. The guy is clearly Dorian but the woman looks very similar to Harding. I really hope that this is the case. Also i think this pic looks like hero plus companions concept arts.
So Dorian and Harding as companions confirmed?
Where do you see Harding? I see a man and two human Woman and a skeleton. The man is maybe Dorian but i am not certain.
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Post by Hrungr on Sept 23, 2020 16:44:32 GMT
Thanks. The guy is clearly Dorian but the woman looks very similar to Harding. I really hope that this is the case. Also i think this pic looks like hero plus companions concept arts.
So Dorian and Harding as companions confirmed?
Where do you see Harding? I see a man and two human Woman and a skeleton. The man is maybe Dorian but i am not certain.
I think some were confusing Isabella for Harding. The man who looks a bit like Dorian is someone else - note the sword at his side. The armor on his arms also look like Crow armor.
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Post by fairdragon on Sept 23, 2020 16:54:06 GMT
I'm roughly 10000% sure those magic archers are Solas' lackeys. The shards they're using remind me of the elven mosaics. Maybe promising for blended classes though? ALSO. Who is the companion with the burning face? a skeleton.
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Post by fairdragon on Sept 23, 2020 16:56:38 GMT
ALSO. Who is the companion with the burning face? My guess would be a nevarran Mortalitasi mage as companion. Not quite. Mortalitasi yes but a skeleton/spirit created from a mage.
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Post by fairdragon on Sept 23, 2020 17:13:50 GMT
"Still in early production" How much fucking time do they need?? It's been 6 years since Inquisition. No they began 2017. It been 3 Years now.
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Post by fairdragon on Sept 23, 2020 17:21:27 GMT
Sorry but that´s not Isabela. This woman has to be the new hero (Lord of Fortune i guess) And don´t forget the Mortalitasi companion in the pic.
It does look quite like Isabela.. No it doesn't. Or have isabela black or blue Hair? and the clothes are to normal for her.
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Post by fairdragon on Sept 23, 2020 17:28:41 GMT
Where do you see Harding? I see a man and two human Woman and a skeleton. The man is maybe Dorian but i am not certain.
I think some were confusing Isabella for Harding. The man who looks a bit like Dorian is someone else - note the sword at his side. The armor on his arms also look like Crow armor. I don't think she is isabella. The hair colour is wrong and her clother aren't sexy enough.
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Post by Rascoth on Sept 23, 2020 17:39:20 GMT
I think some were confusing Isabella for Harding. The man who looks a bit like Dorian is someone else - note the sword at his side. The armor on his arms also look like Crow armor. I don't think she is isabella. The hair colour is wrong and her clother aren't sexy enough. Hair have blue tint due to them because of the water. And these are almost the same clothes she can wear in DAIMP. That's why people thought it might be her. And when talking about Harding, they were talking about the woman in a middle, with a cape. She looks a little (obvious differences due to art style aside) like a woman from this concept art (the one with a braid). And due to how little she needs to bend her knees to match a height of kneeling guy, many assumed she was a dwarf. Plus in recently sketch, with her head turned to the right, there's scar visible on her left cheek. All that made many believe it's Harding.
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Post by midnight tea on Sept 23, 2020 19:00:23 GMT
It does look quite like Isabela.. No it doesn't. Or have isabela black or blue Hair? and the clothes are to normal for her. Erm... does she also have blueish skin...? They are UNDERWATER and thus EVERYTHING is BLUEISH, including hair of other people Also, Isabela in Dragon Age Inquisition has hair so dark it's basically black and virtually half of drawn illustrations with her has black/ish hair. It can also look black underwater and filtered through blueish light. It's a non-issue.
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Post by Iakus on Sept 23, 2020 20:32:26 GMT
I think some were confusing Isabella for Harding. The man who looks a bit like Dorian is someone else - note the sword at his side. The armor on his arms also look like Crow armor. I don't think she is isabella. The hair colour is wrong and her clother aren't sexy enough. She's wearing pants for one thing...
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Sept 24, 2020 10:38:42 GMT
I don't think she is isabella. The hair colour is wrong and her clother aren't sexy enough. She's wearing pants for one thing... To be honest, that was why I was doubting it was Isabela myself. lol But now that I've seen that pic of her DAIMP attire, maybe it is?
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Oct 27, 2024 16:29:34 GMT
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theascendent
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Aug 28, 2017 10:17:49 GMT
August 2017
theascendent
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
The Ascendent
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Post by theascendent on Sept 24, 2020 11:32:13 GMT
I wouldn't be opposed to a new Rivani companion. Maybe she is the woman on the far left, the one in the dress that also acts as a distraction for the plump lady Magister her and the crew are abducting. Isabela has had her story arc and character development finished, she had a game, three comics and a role in the multiplayer. No need to keep reusing old characters, especially since my Isabela and her Hawke are a happy couple.
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Oct 28, 2024 12:00:27 GMT
35,722
colfoley
18,655
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
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Post by colfoley on Sept 25, 2020 4:07:14 GMT
I don't know if I made it clear but from the location conversation I kind of think that it might be an interesting idea to have most of the areas in the game have sort of a commercial hub area, either a fort, a city, or a town, which will be the capital of whatever zone we are in. Now some zones will be pretty much all wilderness (Arlathan forest) and some zones might be more heavily leaning towards cities (Minrathous probably) but the rest of it will be a kind of mixture.
Think Attika or Korinthia from Odyssey.
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∯ Oh Loredy...
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Oct 28, 2024 14:18:24 GMT
30,347
gervaise21
12,832
August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 25, 2020 14:16:09 GMT
but the rest of it will be a kind of mixture. If we went to the Anderfels it would probably be like that. The Fortress at Weisshaupt may be large but not on the scale of a Tevinter city, so plenty of scope for the surrounding area to be shown.
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