Dragon Age The Veilguard Criticism Thread (formerly Skepticism Thread) [Spoilers]

Didn't see any comments replying to this so, just wanted to say: Frostbite is very obviously not required - see Respawn's games they've made in the last three or four years. And on the "can't support RPG systems," as someone who spends hours each day in Unity that's complete bullshit (just to be clear, not attacking you here, just the claim). That kind of stuff is designed within an engine, it's not inherent to an engine. Bioware has had technical issues for years, and Frostbite was just an easy scapegoat.

Ironically enough pigybacking off of the current conversation in the Hype Thread...I am a bit worried that BioWare will do their usual overcompensation bit when it comes to certain things...and well given commentary of the audience...given (really ridiclious) criticism about DAI...and given certain other games in the genre which have been successful...that BioWare will make the game too dark. Now I won't go as far as saying Inquisition was the 'tonally best' game ever but it was in no way that much lighter then Origins or 2. This criticism has always puzzled me, always will, but since a lot of people hollar about it BW might take it as gospel.

I am not allowed to put up an argument about why I disagree with something or why does it bother me? Can I not present an argument that, though you might not agree with, is important to me? Why do I have to agree with you, for your own personal satisfaction?


It's nonsense to you, because you don't want to look at the problem I have with it, from my scope. And you don't care to. So the very purpose of your interjection in this conversation, is to see if you can draw a reaction from me. I don't care for your tests of my patience.


Gravity? Light? Are those not physics that Bioware tried to simulate in their games? Why would solid matter be different? Again, that you can do whatever you want, doesn't mean it's a good idea. So, again, factually wrong.


It's part of world design. Choose to break your own world. I don't like it.


Define non-rational enemy behaviour. Bad AI? Yes, that's bad, too. But randomly spawning enemies that can take out your party in one hit, before you can react and having to resort to cheese tactics, instead of having a well designed encounter, while also breaking the immersion of the setting, does a lot of bad things to the game, in one swoop. Maybe you disagree and that's fine. You do you.


Likewise.

That's nice.

Well nothing is above criticism, even stuff I'd rate ten out of ten has since flaws.

And the Inquisitor can disagree with Viv, mine did. Got a greatly disproves for it.

Not in terms of the background-related stuff, especially the Vashoth mage one. She asserts that Vashoth cut out mages tongues too as a general statement. We get no way to disagree with that or even point out that her generalisation is plain wrong since Adaar still has their tongue.

Except for the Witcher 3 that game is flawless.

I don't think I've seen this conversation...anyone have a clip handy?

Just going to air my primary concerns:

Gameplay - I don't want "heists" if that's still the main schtick.  When I think Dragon Age, I do not think heists.  My initial reaction to hearing about this was "gross."  If they wanted heists, they should have done another Dragon Age 2, where the stakes are much lower.

Setting - I doubt they'll be able to do the magical cities of Tevinter justice.  Minrathous has been built up as this mix of ancient and modern, with magic strewn all about; I'm expecting a lot for this city in particular, and another Val Royeaux situation is unacceptable.  Also, no more deserts.  

Story - This feels like it's setting up to be another Mass Effect 3, where the villain has been built up too much as too powerful that I don't think Bioware will be able to resolve it well. Either we're getting another Crucible that saps Solas's power, ruining the build up, or everyone will be wearing their most polished Plot Armor and Solas will be aware of a group working to stop him and he just decides to not kill them, despite killing characters who have done far less. There's also the issue of Solas hitting too many of the same story beats as Corypheus at this point. 

Characters -  This is the part I'm most worried about, and I'm very much expecting them to drop the ball as I have little faith in them in this area.  Bioware's companion concepts have been getting worse, and the writing is no longer strong enough to carry them.  Inquisition and Andromeda did not handle companions well.  Characters that should have been more important that tied into several plot threads barely got anything (Vivienne, Cole) while others who had nothing to do with the main plot got more scenes and writing dedicated to them (Sera, Blackwall).  Most of them just felt like they existed to be romanced and that was about as far as they got with the idea.  Cassandra and Solas were the best among Inquisition's group.  They remained relevant throughout and had appropriate moments and scenes where they should.  My biggest gripe is with Vivienne.  She should have been probably one of the most important companions, having stakes in the Mage-Templar War, the Orlesian Civil War, and rebuilding the Chantry in order to bring back the Circles.  However, she gets basically nothing.  No additional approval points in Halamshiral, nothing for the Mages or Templars, and she's just a secret option for Divine.  The cherry on top is her companion quest is just a fetch quest that is about as bare-bones as a companion quest can get.  Sera and Blackwall both get more than her, and it honestly feels like the only reason they do is because they're romance options.  I do not want a repeat were seemingly important characters are left in the dirt while bit players get more just because they're romances. If a character is going to be a companion, they should be relevant to the main plot and interact/react accordingly. 

Furthermore, and I'm aware I'm a broken record on this point, but the current group that's being suggested for companions are not strong enough to take on a god. Average joes are not who should be fighting Solas.  There needs to be some serious fire power, either magically or technologically, to take him down.  Treasure hunters, spies, and a certain dwarven archer are not good enough.  They should be instantly killed the moment Solas catches wind of them, and there's nothing any of them could do about it.  This game needs some truly epic companions that can rival the Dread Wolf, and I do not believe Bioware will deliver.  Give me a Titan-connected dwarf, a mage possessed by a Spirit of Hope, an ancient elf Dreamer, anyone who I can believe won't be instantly turned into garden decor.  Unfortunately, the fans seem more concerned about who they can get their rocks off with rather than having a group that can reasonably fight a god, and Bioware will more likely pander to them.

In the end, I don't know if I'm even going to bother with this game.  There's just a lot I'm expecting to go wrong, and the only thing really keeping me invested is the world-building and lore reveals.  

It’ll be all of that, except without the buildup and connections that ME3 had, it being the conclusion of a trilogy of a character trying to stop these things while in DA4 it’ll be some random person who learned of it only 5 minutes ago.

Re: Vivienne part of the perception of not being able to refute her, IMO, is that she won't leave once recruited. We can tell Sera to leave, Dorian leaves with enough disapproval (right? I've never done it), we can choose to have Blackwall executed. But once Vivienne is recruited there's no way to have her voluntarily leave or kick her out. Presumably for reason of the divine election.

I think all companions save one or two (Solas and Cassandra) should have the option to leave or be kicked out.