andorvex
N3
Free me now, I'm not answering questions, blah blah blah. Don't you know who I am?
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Post by andorvex on Nov 6, 2024 14:31:08 GMT
I honestly feel cheated in that regard. Finally they give us a dwarf romance and she's an idiot with no personality
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Post by Reznore on Nov 6, 2024 14:31:52 GMT
What did they do to her? She was cool in inquisition, I mean she wasn't some masterclass character writing, but now in hindsight she was witty and to the point and extremely competent. Did she hit her head or something? Big story spoiler They can't have her have character growth with varric dead and her carrying the Inquisition torch by herself .
Her character arc is Titan related after touching a magical dagger. But harding a surface dwarf who turns Valta 2.0 Been there, done that .
And you have weird talk about her mom, her pretending to like coffee because she's a people pleaser, bickering about a field trip in Ferelden with Emrich (Ferelden blighted and mostly destroyed lol )
So yeah a mess.
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Post by Kappa Neko on Nov 6, 2024 14:42:55 GMT
I'm still feeling somewhat hopeful about the Neve romance. I really liked her in Tevinter Nights and she's so far not annoying or dumb. Will have to watch the Harding and Bellara romance on YT for giggles. Better not eat popcorn though or I might choke while laughing. Not sure I want to watch the Taash romance. But maybe I should for maximum cringe, could be hilarious.
Honestly, I feel so bad for straight male players. Only 1 in 4 options doesn't feel like talking to a child.
From what I gather, the male companions aren't nearly this dumb and annoying. I mean, I still don't want to romance Puss in Boots 2.0, I REALLY cannot with those accents. But at least he isn't childish. Davrin I've only just recruited and he comes off mature enough so far. Have yet to recruit Emmerich but from what I hear he's OK too. So should I ever speedurn replay to see variables that seem worth the effort (are there??), my female Rook has better options.
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andorvex
N3
Free me now, I'm not answering questions, blah blah blah. Don't you know who I am?
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Free me now, I'm not answering questions, blah blah blah. Don't you know who I am?
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Post by andorvex on Nov 6, 2024 14:46:24 GMT
Neve is actually pretty cool. I dig her.
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Post by Reznore on Nov 6, 2024 14:49:52 GMT
I'm still feeling somewhat hopeful about the Neve romance. I really liked her in Tevinter Nights and she's so far not annoying or dumb. Will have to watch the Harding and Bellara romance on YT for giggles. Better not eat popcorn though or I might choke while laughing. Not sure I want to watch the Taash romance. But maybe I should for maximum cringe, could be hilarious. Honestly, I feel so bad for straight male players. Only 1 in 4 options doesn't feel like talking to a child. From what I gather, the male companions aren't nearly this dumb and annoying. I mean, I still don't want to romance Puss in Boots 2.0, I REALLY cannot with those accents. But at least he isn't childish. Davrin I've only just recruited and he comes off mature enough so far. Have yet to recruit Emmerich but from what I hear he's OK too. So should I ever speedurn replay to see variables that seem worth the effort (are there??), my female Rook has better options. I cannot stand Emrich. The Disney and "mouhahaha" he brings along I could have live without. He's not the one "mouhahahing" but still...I also can't stand Manfred.
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Post by spacev3gan on Nov 6, 2024 15:03:53 GMT
I honestly feel cheated in that regard. Finally they give us a dwarf romance and she's an idiot with no personality Plus they gave here one of the best voice actresses Bioware has ever worked with - Ali Hillis - yet the voice acting is completely butchered.
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andorvex
N3
Free me now, I'm not answering questions, blah blah blah. Don't you know who I am?
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Free me now, I'm not answering questions, blah blah blah. Don't you know who I am?
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by andorvex on Nov 6, 2024 15:07:05 GMT
I'm still feeling somewhat hopeful about the Neve romance. I really liked her in Tevinter Nights and she's so far not annoying or dumb. Will have to watch the Harding and Bellara romance on YT for giggles. Better not eat popcorn though or I might choke while laughing. Not sure I want to watch the Taash romance. But maybe I should for maximum cringe, could be hilarious. Honestly, I feel so bad for straight male players. Only 1 in 4 options doesn't feel like talking to a child. From what I gather, the male companions aren't nearly this dumb and annoying. I mean, I still don't want to romance Puss in Boots 2.0, I REALLY cannot with those accents. But at least he isn't childish. Davrin I've only just recruited and he comes off mature enough so far. Have yet to recruit Emmerich but from what I hear he's OK too. So should I ever speedurn replay to see variables that seem worth the effort (are there??), my female Rook has better options. I cannot stand Emrich. The Disney and "mouhahaha" he brings along I could have live without. He's not the one "mouhahahing" but still...I also can't stand Manfred. Interesting. I didn't see anything out of him myself, but all the people I heard talking about him had nothing but praise for him and he seems to be one of the more popular companions
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Post by witchcocktor on Nov 6, 2024 15:30:22 GMT
Emmrich is cool... but I have such a massive issue with him being so gentle and polite while lacking ANY kind of edge. He does not belong in a Dragon Age game, and his personal quest has a villain that is more Disney than anything else in the game.
Davrin, Neve and Lucanis are all incredibly dull. Davrin is better than the other two for having better voice acting which translates to a more convincing and charismatic personality. Lucanis is the biggest disappointment, how are you a character from the Dragon Age universe, possessed by a demon, and fail to deliver anything of interest or value the entire game? Just coffee this, coffee that? Go away. Neve is just... she is another '' nothing '' character and while she gets things done sometimes, I do not buy her '' effortlessly charismatic cool girl who isn't phased by anything '' shtick. Girl, Vivienne would destroy your ass.
Bellara is the one I flipflop the most with. I thought her personal quest started off pretty strong, and whenever she gets serious about things, especially being Dalish and the Evanuris, I think she is good. But the ending to her personal quest was kind of disappointing, and her overall personality and way of speaking couldn't be further from the kind of characters I like. But then the end of the game let's you do something interesting with her that again makes her a bit cooler in my eyes. I don't know. She confuses me, but I think I'm overall alright with her.
Taash and Harding are both big flops. Harding at least can have a decent conclusion to her arc if you choose to do so. But Taash is irredeemable garbage, even if we take out the whole non-binary thing.
Emmrich > Davrin > Bellara > Neve > Lucanis ≥ Harding >>>>>>> Taash, that's my final ranking.
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Post by gervaise21 on Nov 6, 2024 15:30:29 GMT
I cannot stand Emrich. The Disney and "mouhahaha" he brings along I could have live without. He's not the one "mouhahahing" but still...I also can't stand Manfred. Have some comments on the later development of the male romances but don't read if you don't want to be spoiled. I also find the two outcomes to Emmrich's personal quest both hilarious and cringe. He either becomes a Lich, who is an undead skeleton being that only continues to appear normal because of a glamour/illusion (didn't know they were a thing in DA world but there you go). Then everyone is totally okay with it when they actually see him. Alternatively, and I would suggest the better outcome if you are romancing him, is to restore Manfred to life and have a really annoying vocal skeleton assistant running around the place. That was pure Disney and even had the relevant twinky music (from what I recall, only having watched it the once). Regardless, of which you choose, you get to make out in a coffin. Now he definitely doesn't remind me of my dad (which was previously what would have put me off romancing him because of the similarity in appearance.) That reduces the choices for a straight female down to Davrin and Lucanis. The latter is also a bit creepy bearing in mind his passenger. I know Anders was possessed but apart from the odd glowing eyes episode he didn't make it obvious. It's those purple wings that make it so obvious and, yes, they do make an appearance in the "sex" scene. I put that in quotations because it is very discrete compared with some previous games. So, really, if you don't want a romance that is a cross between creepy and goofy, there really is only Davrin. Some times Assan can get a bit much but at least he stays back in Davrin's room when you get intimate. The bit I found strange with Davrin was not actually connected with the romance. There is a scene where Rook is meant to be able to understand Assan saying "worms". To be honest, I didn't hear it myself and after the third "worms", I thought they had overdone it. Like much of their dialogue, it doesn't improve for constant repetition.
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Post by ellanathehamster on Nov 6, 2024 15:53:43 GMT
Someone posted early companion concept art for Veilguard (there aren't any spoilers, it's just concept art of potential companions): www.reddit.com/r/dragonage/s/DYQM6pKMEr 2/3 of the companions were scrapped, the rest were re-done except for Harding. I guess the initial story Bioware had in mind was completely different than the end product. All that wasted potential makes me sad, at least the game was singe player in the end. although Imshael as acompanion would be a questionable choice ngl This would have been so much better. Ishmael and Calpernia as companions would have made so much sense.
About Taash: I said it yesterday, I'm pretty ok with them being non binary, but try to make it fit into the world. I find it troublesome, that they did set up the most diverse companion as a character, most people don't like. They made Taash an abrasive childlike person, who wants recognition for themselves, but is constantly questionig companions for their life choices.
It is as if they wanted that character to fail somehow. Taash should be a fan favourite: badass qunari warrior with a unique touch, but the writing made that character a total train wreck - and as someone happy to see LGBTQ+ stuff in media well written (looking at Krem, Sera, Aylin and Isobel, Lucretious, Nocturne), I'm really sad that Taash turns out to be the biggest dissapointment. And yes, I can't believe this was an accident, sorry.
This! Compare Taash and Dorian. Taash is simply obnoxious.
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Post by ellanathehamster on Nov 6, 2024 16:04:42 GMT
Talking about cringe and romance, the only time I picked flirt option with Taash for lols her reaction was so. fucking. cringe. I dislike immensely that she acts like an animal. Not my cup of tea, not sexy, not coming from Taash.
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Post by theratpack55 on Nov 6, 2024 16:06:26 GMT
I cannot stand Emrich. The Disney and "mouhahaha" he brings along I could have live without. He's not the one "mouhahahing" but still...I also can't stand Manfred. Have some comments on the later development of the male romances but don't read if you don't want to be spoiled. I also find the two outcomes to Emmrich's personal quest both hilarious and cringe. He either becomes a Lich, who is an undead skeleton being that only continues to appear normal because of a glamour/illusion (didn't know they were a thing in DA world but there you go). Then everyone is totally okay with it when they actually see him. Alternatively, and I would suggest the better outcome if you are romancing him, is to restore Manfred to life and have a really annoying vocal skeleton assistant running around the place. That was pure Disney and even had the relevant twinky music (from what I recall, only having watched it the once). Regardless, of which you choose, you get to make out in a coffin. Now he definitely doesn't remind me of my dad (which was previously what would have put me off romancing him because of the similarity in appearance.) That reduces the choices for a straight female down to Davrin and Lucanis. The latter is also a bit creepy bearing in mind his passenger. I know Anders was possessed but apart from the odd glowing eyes episode he didn't make it obvious. It's those purple wings that make it so obvious and, yes, they do make an appearance in the "sex" scene. I put that in quotations because it is very discrete compared with some previous games. So, really, if you don't want a romance that is a cross between creepy and goofy, there really is only Davrin. Some times Assan can get a bit much but at least he stays back in Davrin's room when you get intimate. The bit I found strange with Davrin was not actually connected with the romance. There is a scene where Rook is meant to be able to understand Assan saying "worms". To be honest, I didn't hear it myself and after the third "worms", I thought they had overdone it. Like much of their dialogue, it doesn't improve for constant repetition. I find it sad and telling how quiet the companion and romance threads are here. I know the game's only been out for a week, but usually the character threads would be thriving, I remember there being tons of activity even back in MEA days. Now it's like nobody has much to say about the characters at all.
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Post by Iddy on Nov 6, 2024 16:38:07 GMT
I've never been a huge fan of DA2 and DAI but DAV is making me see them in a much more positive light. I actually like DAI graphics/artistic direction so much better than DAV's cartoony aesthetics DA2 is actually my favourite game despite it's flaws - I have a thing for flawed games, the other one is Vampire Bloodlines.
I love Hawke (in my case female sarcastic) and I like the companion dynamics. Plus being a normal person getting thrown into events that are not about the end of the world for once.
DAV is like DA2 in the sense that both had development issues and they just had to make do. However, I feel like the latter had a lot more heart.
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Post by yarus on Nov 6, 2024 16:42:37 GMT
I honestly feel cheated in that regard. Finally they give us a dwarf romance and she's an idiot with no personality *Monkeys Paw*
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fenalaslavellan
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by fenalaslavellan on Nov 6, 2024 16:43:53 GMT
I really don't care much for Weekes' writing tbh, it's why I dislike The Masked Empire. Solas is a good character, I get it, but I would have liked him more as the main villain. I don't know if you remember but PW admitted back in 2014 that Solas was originally meant to be more obviously shifty in DAI and that either PW or the team (not sure which) decided to introduce the romance in order to make him a more sympathetic villain but only after the game was delayed year, so allowed them the opportunity to do so. Whilst this possibly made for a more interesting villain in DA4, it did mean that the focus was very much on Solas and not always in a good way. Everything in the narrative really centred around Solas' memories and his regrets. When they said we would see the past in the Fade, I thought we would see actual scenes where we witnessed events. Instead, apart from the Ghil one, it was all shown through the murals and then sitting around discussing them with the team. The other evil gods and factions were just inconveniences that the team had to overcome in order to get to the next reveal about Solas.
Have I understood this wrong or was Solas responsible for everything evil that had happened to the world? I'm not sure but did he originally give them the knowledge how to create bodies from lyrium? Anyway, then he left the Fade and took on a body because Mythal asked him. Then he helped her make the Titans tranquil. This caused their mental and physical decay that resulted in the blight. So they sealed it away. Elgar'nan decided he wanted to become tyrant overlord of the elves. Why didn't Mythal and Solas just kill him with his dagger at that point if they were both against it? Or why didn't Solas just take that action on his own? Instead Mythal seemed to be in favour so long as she could rule alongside him. Solas disagreed and started his rebellion. The other gods found the blight (red lyrium?) and started using it. Solas told Mythal who tried to stop them but they killed her. So he locked them away which somehow resulted in the Veil, which was an unintended side effect. Still not clear how he accomplished that. If he was that powerful, surely he did have other options? Anyway, it drained him so much he needed to take a nap for several millennia. Then he woke up, messed up with Cory, lost his orb, so he killed Flemeth/Mythal instead in order to steal her power.
Anyway, based on how she is presented in DAV, it seems Flemeth was actually the hero in all this. Working with Mythal all those years. Nudging events in the direction she wanted them to take. Helping the Wardens against the Blight
I've one big problem though. When we see her in DAI, who was she planning on having vengeance against? Why would that confrontation shake the very heavens? That sounded like she wanted the Veil to come down, particularly as that would be a side-effect of killing her old enemies. So, what happened? Did Solas killing Flemeth change her outlook on life?
Once again, it all comes back to that very contrived scene with the ritual. If Solas had successfully transferred the gods to their new prison, Mythal would never have her heaven shaking confrontation with them. If Rook hadn't disturbed that ritual then Solas could never have brought down the Veil because it was quite clearly stated that if Elgar'nan died, Solas could complete his ritual to destroy the Veil. So long as there was a god alive, that couldn't happen. So, if Rook had just stood and watched at the beginning instead of intervening what then? The only way for the plot to work is for Solas to have set the whole thing up so Rook would interrupt the ritual and allow the gods to escape so they could be killed. Is that it? Or am I missing something? I remember, Solas even killed Felassan mid sentence in Masked Empire which I always thought was weird. I also heard someone say that Gaider had him rewrite Solas many times or something. Anyway, it's been 2 days since I've finished this game but the only things that remained in my head were the contents of those memories.
You didn't get it wrong, everything in the setting has been due to the Evanuris and Solas' actions. I don't think it was his idea to use Lyrium to manifest bodies, maybe it was Elgar'nan's, but everything else he just went with Mythal's flow, and did everything at her behest. Mythal seemed pretty intent on keeping peace with Elgar'nan, and thought preserving the status quo of Elvhenan was necessary for some reason. And yet time and time again on DAI codex entries show her acting to fix the fuck ups of the other gods. I think Solas' rebellion only truly started after her death, I say this because I saw 3 codex entries where Solas urges Elgar'nan and Ghilan'nain to stop being tyrants and all and introducing himself as Mythal's second in command. They both ignored and mocked him. I believe Solas initially left Mythal's side due to shame or grief since he basically made the nuke, but began to actively rebel after they killed her. But yes, it is pretty weird how he managed to lock all 7 Evanuris. He must have prepared one hell of a trap, something like making it so every Evanuris unknowingly used some trapped artifact that tied them to his magic? The same way Rook tricks Solas with the fake dagger that somehow Rook's companions built. It's the only explanation seeing even with Mythal's power he says he's weaker than the Evanuris, and even goes as far to say Ghilan'nain's power pales in comparison to Elgar'nan's.
I also don't really understand what Mythal meant by vengeance. See I understood BEFORE watching these memories, but a single line from Mythal kinda mixed things up. She said that "the elves of today do not deserve to see the world they love destroyed just so Solas can right his wrong and make himself feel better". The problem is this implies that Mythal didn't want the Veil to be lifted, but she had to know that the Evanuris were tied to the Veil and that for her to have her revenge, they would either have to escape or the Veil would have to come down.
It is truly confusing yes, even more so because in Veilguard Solas said that the other Evanuris are dead, only Ghilan'nain and Elgar'nan are left. Are we to assume that the deaths of the Archedmons on previous Blights made them mortal like this game says it does? Meaning they died during their imprisonement? Meaning Solas killed them during his ritual and was transfering just Ghil and Elgar'nan as they wer the only ones left alive? Truly, think about all this makes my head hurt. Veilguard is a mess.
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Post by cockyrustler on Nov 6, 2024 16:53:50 GMT
I cannot stand Emrich. The Disney and "mouhahaha" he brings along I could have live without. He's not the one "mouhahahing" but still...I also can't stand Manfred. Have some comments on the later development of the male romances but don't read if you don't want to be spoiled. I also find the two outcomes to Emmrich's personal quest both hilarious and cringe. He either becomes a Lich, who is an undead skeleton being that only continues to appear normal because of a glamour/illusion (didn't know they were a thing in DA world but there you go). Then everyone is totally okay with it when they actually see him.
Lmaaaao..that is freaking hilarious. They've sanitized everything so much that companion turning into lich, is "invisible to everyone". It's beyond parody at this point.
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Gileadan
N5
Agent 46
Clearance Level Ultra
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Gileadan on Nov 6, 2024 17:03:11 GMT
The only explanation for all this that I can come up with at this point that this was written by a combination of activists, absolute beginners and veterans who saw the layoffs coming from a mile away and stopped giving a damn.
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Nimlowyn
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: nimlowyn
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Post by Nimlowyn on Nov 6, 2024 17:10:21 GMT
The only explanation for all this that I can come up with at this point that this was written by a combination of activists, absolute beginners and veterans who saw the layoffs coming from a mile away and stopped giving a damn. From 2009-2014 Gaider and Laidlaw were at the narrative helm. Now...
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Post by ellanathehamster on Nov 6, 2024 17:17:16 GMT
I don't know if you remember but PW admitted back in 2014 that Solas was originally meant to be more obviously shifty in DAI and that either PW or the team (not sure which) decided to introduce the romance in order to make him a more sympathetic villain but only after the game was delayed year, so allowed them the opportunity to do so. Whilst this possibly made for a more interesting villain in DA4, it did mean that the focus was very much on Solas and not always in a good way. Everything in the narrative really centred around Solas' memories and his regrets. When they said we would see the past in the Fade, I thought we would see actual scenes where we witnessed events. Instead, apart from the Ghil one, it was all shown through the murals and then sitting around discussing them with the team. The other evil gods and factions were just inconveniences that the team had to overcome in order to get to the next reveal about Solas.
Have I understood this wrong or was Solas responsible for everything evil that had happened to the world? I'm not sure but did he originally give them the knowledge how to create bodies from lyrium? Anyway, then he left the Fade and took on a body because Mythal asked him. Then he helped her make the Titans tranquil. This caused their mental and physical decay that resulted in the blight. So they sealed it away. Elgar'nan decided he wanted to become tyrant overlord of the elves. Why didn't Mythal and Solas just kill him with his dagger at that point if they were both against it? Or why didn't Solas just take that action on his own? Instead Mythal seemed to be in favour so long as she could rule alongside him. Solas disagreed and started his rebellion. The other gods found the blight (red lyrium?) and started using it. Solas told Mythal who tried to stop them but they killed her. So he locked them away which somehow resulted in the Veil, which was an unintended side effect. Still not clear how he accomplished that. If he was that powerful, surely he did have other options? Anyway, it drained him so much he needed to take a nap for several millennia. Then he woke up, messed up with Cory, lost his orb, so he killed Flemeth/Mythal instead in order to steal her power.
Anyway, based on how she is presented in DAV, it seems Flemeth was actually the hero in all this. Working with Mythal all those years. Nudging events in the direction she wanted them to take. Helping the Wardens against the Blight
I've one big problem though. When we see her in DAI, who was she planning on having vengeance against? Why would that confrontation shake the very heavens? That sounded like she wanted the Veil to come down, particularly as that would be a side-effect of killing her old enemies. So, what happened? Did Solas killing Flemeth change her outlook on life?
Once again, it all comes back to that very contrived scene with the ritual. If Solas had successfully transferred the gods to their new prison, Mythal would never have her heaven shaking confrontation with them. If Rook hadn't disturbed that ritual then Solas could never have brought down the Veil because it was quite clearly stated that if Elgar'nan died, Solas could complete his ritual to destroy the Veil. So long as there was a god alive, that couldn't happen. So, if Rook had just stood and watched at the beginning instead of intervening what then? The only way for the plot to work is for Solas to have set the whole thing up so Rook would interrupt the ritual and allow the gods to escape so they could be killed. Is that it? Or am I missing something? I remember, Solas even killed Felassan mid sentence in Masked Empire which I always thought was weird. I also heard someone say that Gaider had him rewrite Solas many times or something. Anyway, it's been 2 days since I've finished this game but the only things that remained in my head were the contents of those memories.
You didn't get it wrong, everything in the setting has been due to the Evanuris and Solas' actions. I don't think it was his idea to use Lyrium to manifest bodies, maybe it was Elgar'nan's, but everything else he just went with Mythal's flow, and did everything at her behest. Mythal seemed pretty intent on keeping peace with Elgar'nan, and thought preserving the status quo of Elvhenan was necessary for some reason. And yet time and time again on DAI codex entries show her acting to fix the fuck ups of the other gods. I think Solas' rebellion only truly started after her death, I say this because I saw 3 codex entries where Solas urges Elgar'nan and Ghilan'nain to stop being tyrants and all and introducing himself as Mythal's second in command. They both ignored and mocked him. I believe Solas initially left Mythal's side due to shame or grief since he basically made the nuke, but began to actively rebel after they killed her. But yes, it is pretty weird how he managed to lock all 7 Evanuris. He must have prepared one hell of a trap, something like making it so every Evanuris unknowingly used some trapped artifact that tied them to his magic? The same way Rook tricks Solas with the fake dagger that somehow Rook's companions built. It's the only explanation seeing even with Mythal's power he says he's weaker than the Evanuris, and even goes as far to say Ghilan'nain's power pales in comparison to Elgar'nan's.
I also don't really understand what Mythal meant by vengeance. See I understood BEFORE watching these memories, but a single line from Mythal kinda mixed things up. She said that "the elves of today do not deserve to see the world they love destroyed just so Solas can right his wrong and make himself feel better". The problem is this implies that Mythal didn't want the Veil to be lifted, but she had to know that the Evanuris were tied to the Veil and that for her to have her revenge, they would either have to escape or the Veil would have to come down.
It is truly confusing yes, even more so because in Veilguard Solas said that the other Evanuris are dead, only Ghilan'nain and Elgar'nan are left. Are we to assume that the deaths of the Archedmons on previous Blights made them mortal like this game says it does? Meaning they died during their imprisonement? Meaning Solas killed them during his ritual and was transfering just Ghil and Elgar'nan as they wer the only ones left alive? Truly, think about all this makes my head hurt. Veilguard is a mess.
I think I got the timing a bit wrong. His murals doesn't unlock chronologically. - Elgar'nan, Mythal and probably others took Titan's blood, lyrium, to craft physical bodies. - Titans didn't like it ("The earth shook"). Solas warned Mythal of this, but she asks him to join her because she needs his wisdom to oppose Elgar'nan and likes of him (who may go to far) - Then more and more spirits use lyrium to take on physical form. Titans begin to fight them, great war between elves and titans ensures (lead by generals who later became evanuris). It lasts for a long time, during which Solas is Mythal's second in command. - Apparently that war is so bloody, that Mythal orders Solas to craft a dagger (the one from the game) that saunders Titans from their spirits (basically making them tranquil). He does so, voices warnings it may create danger (which it does), but Mythal argues that it's the only thing that can stop the war. - sometime after that he and Mythal locked the blight in the void. - Then we have what is depicted in first mural. The war against titans s won, but instead of laying down arms, Elgar'nan wants to become god, to "guide" people. The letter to Elgar'nan, the one you referring to where Solas is sighed as second to Mythal (he only does it in letter to him, not Ghil), happens sometime during this. He asks hm to reconsider becoming a god. Mythal joins him. This is creation of evanuris. Solas argues against it ("So we did not fight for freedom but to conquer this land and our own"). This is the betrayal Solas speak about during exchange in DAI INQUISITOR: I trust my friends. SOLAS: I know that mistake well enough to carve the angles of her face from memory. Mythal betrayed him but becoming an evanuris. - Solas rebels -During rebellion, Solas encounters blight in Ghilan'nain lab. It happens before she joins evanuris, which is logical, cause she is the last addition to the group (the only one from the people, not first elven who were spirits). - Solas is shaken as he though blight is safely locked. He reces out to Mythal, they meet in secret. He asks her to keep in check other evanuris, who may unleash blight. He also asks her to leave them and join him, she says no. At the end she promises to stop them, to which Solas says "as you must. The blight is our mistake." - Mythal tries to stop other evanuris from using blight magis, they say lol no, stfu and kill her with lyrium dagger. (apparently it was in elgar'nan possession) - After this solas decides to imprison evanuris together with blight they unleashed, creating the veil. In one of conversation with Rook he confirms he lured them with trickery.
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Kappa Neko
...lives for biotic explosions. And cheesecake!
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Kappa Neko on Nov 6, 2024 17:23:44 GMT
I find it sad and telling how quiet the companion and romance threads are here. I know the game's only been out for a week, but usually the character threads would be thriving, I remember there being tons of activity even back in MEA days. Now it's like nobody has much to say about the characters at all. That's because there isn't really much to say about them tbh. They're boring. Even if one finds them adorable, that's not the same thing as interesting. Also half of them were introduced in Tevinter Nights where all the interesting character building already happened. The game adds little to the characters from what I've seen so far. So I guess the discussion has run dry? When I looked through the inky screenshot thread from 2014 looking for a picture of mine I might have posted to remember what she looked like (no luck) I was almost shocked how many people posted, hundreds of users, there's barely anybody left. This fandom has shrunk to less than 10% of what it was in 2014, I would say. I didn't realize just HOW few people were left. Before I thought maybe most people don't post much in between games and they'd return for the release. And some did. But most people seem to have given up on BioWare long ago or they're busy with life now. Been so long, people have families and careers now. It's a different crowd now than before too. Very very few old BSN veterans like me are still left. Those who remained or joined since seem to like the new colorful cutesy direction BioWare has taken, which makes sense. It's really us disgruntled good old days fans who are the dumb ones for sticking around. At least we have our own little gremlin thread!
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Post by Iddy on Nov 6, 2024 17:25:50 GMT
Just take a moment to listen and remember what Dragon Age truly feels like.
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Post by witchcocktor on Nov 6, 2024 17:27:24 GMT
A beautifully written critical text of the game in Reddit right now. It basically nails all my thoughts about the game: the good, the bad and the ugly (as the writer themselves said) all together. https://www.reddit.com/r/dragonage/comments/1gkytn7/dav_spoilers_all_long_read_veilguard_an_honest/And if you don't want to browse Reddit, I'll spoiler the text below. Spoilers about much of the game up until the end, but vaguely so, so be aware! Long time lurker, first time poster. I completed Veilguard exactly an hour ago from the time I began drafting this post, and had such a strong reaction I felt I had to record my thoughts here, not least because nobody else in my offline life is a fan of the series and I have nobody else to vent to.
I'd like to include a TL;DR for this post, but my feelings toward this game and its implications for the franchise are so powerful, I don't think it would be possible to summarise them in a couple of lines without repeating what other fans and reviewers have already recorded, or resorting to a trite one-liner.
As a caveat, I'm a long-time, diehard fan of DA. I played DAO when it released in 2009 (I was still a kid at the time!) and immediately fell in love. It became, and remains, one of my two favourite games of all time, and began a 15 year fixation with the world and characters of Thedas. That said, and given my investment in this series, I don't pretend this review attempts to be objective, or see DAV through the eyes of a new player to the series.
But, without further ado, what follows is my review of Dragon Age: The Veilguard - the good, the bad, and the ugly.
**** SPOILERS BEGIN ****
Upon starting Veilguard, it's apparent this game is a highly polished effort. Despite some controversy over the visuals and art direction DAV took, the opening character creator and subsequent introductory sequence is a testament to BioWare's efforts to modernise the franchise's visuals, animations and mechanics. As has been widely remarked upon, options for customisation within the character creator are genuinely impressive, while both cutscenes and playable sections are smooth, and largely absent of the awkwardness which has characterised BioWare's animations in previous releases. Though there are some exceptions to this, such as characters smirking inappropriately during difficult conversations, this, on the whole, doesn't detract from the major leaps BioWare has made in bringing this franchise into the modern age.
The devs' attention to aesthetic detail is something which is equally evident in the design of the game's environments, every one of which is genuinely gorgeous and create a unique sense of place, always reflecting the pre-established and newly introduced lore relevant to each environment. I counted, perhaps, two or three recycled maps and settings during my playthrough, but these are disguised sufficiently well so as not to become wearisome in the manner Dragon Age II's infamous repeating caves did.
In regard to gameplay and mechanics, the refining process the game went through to make it a complete product on release is evident. I noticed no bugs or glitches during my playthrough, which is both impressive and rare for a product which possess the scale and breadth of content of Veilguard.
BioWare is to be commended for all the above, but these qualities do not, regrettably, save the game from its significant failures.
The key strength BioWare has rightly traded on throughout its history has been the depth and quality of its writing. With a couple of recent exceptions, the studio's ability to craft nuanced and emotionally provocative characters, sweeping narratives on a grand scale and intimate tales of personal conflict, and to integrate weighty and cerebrally demanding choices has been, for the most part, unparalleled in the industry. The quality of the plot and characters is surely, then, the factor which weighs most heavily when reviewing any BioWare game. With that standard in mind, it truly pains me to say this is, by some distance, the worst writing BioWare has ever produced.
The threat the game establishes in its opening sequences follows relatively neatly from the conclusion of Inquisition and Trespasser, but proceeds to move at such a breakneck pace that the player has little time to bed in and establish a meaningful connection to the characters or world with which we interact, including with the PC, Rook. Although we're offered a choice as to Rook's background, much of their character is predefined to an extent I haven't seen before in a BioWare protagonist. Rook's moral framework and worldview feels to have been decided by DAV's writers for us, taking away much of the pleasure of roleplaying, and making it difficult to decide what our character's motivations might be for taking certain actions. In almost every beat of DAV's plot, Rook's expressions of purpose are bland and pedestrian, and there is no option to acknowledge the highly complex and often personally, politically and socially painful decision-making which leadership demands, particularly when combatting a threat as great as the one DAV focusses around.
By contrast, The Warden in Origins was able to make choices so controversial they would test relationships with allies and companions, sometimes to breaking point: people we have fought alongside and perhaps grown to love could be forced into a moral quandary so great by our protagonist's actions that they could leave our side or, in extreme cases, decide we were a threat to their own worldview so great we needed to be eliminated by force. Similarly, Dragon Age II's companion interactions could, depending on player choice, be fraught with a grand scale of emotional, from deep friendship and romantic love, to deadly interpersonal conflict which could cause a decade-long companionship to end in an irreconcilable quarrel or, in the case of Anders, with the edge of a knife. Inquisition, again, gives the player the option to make monarchs rise or fall, imbues the protagonist with the power to pass the judgements which leadership demands, and shape a revived institution according to their morality, ambition and worldview.
What all the previous have in common, to varying degrees, is that the PC's actions in each of these decisions and subplots are explicable within the context in which they operate; the Warden can undertake morally questionable acts and justify them through the cruel necessity of combatting the Blight, Hawke could challenge and be challenged due to their proximity and the desperation of their situations, the Inquisitor can reason in various ways as to why they chose a certain path, be it pragmatism, ambition, or simple mercy.
This morally complex reasoning and interpersonal conflict is almost entirely absent from Veilguard. There is no option at almost any point in the game to challenge our companions, or indeed most other NPCs with the exception of the villains, on their words, actions or worldview and, by contrast, almost every action Rook takes will be met with a cascade of approval form companions which, so far as I could tell, has no effect whatsoever on how they interact throughout the course of the game. There were two scenes in DAV in which I noted companions bickering with one another; one of these conflicts was resolved in the very same scene and did not depend on interaction from Rook, while the other resolved itself without prompting some hours later. This conflict felt so obviously scripted and phoned in, with no consequence on the cohesiveness of our team, I was left wondering why it was included at all.
The above is underpinned by a general sense that Veilguard's writing, particularly it's dialogue, is cloyingly, suffocatingly safe. It's been remarked elsewhere and often that much of the game's dialogue feels crafted by an HR department, and while I don't want to comment on the specific political and social debates which motivate those comments, I will say there's an undeniably sterile, corporate and often therapised tone to Veilguard's writing. A particularly jarring example occurred when Rook was attempting to convince a spiritual remnant of Mythal to lend her aid in the fight against the game's villains , and appealed to her with an argument which rested on "building a community that's tied together through shared bonds", or words to this effect. The sheer blandness of this statement simply did not match the solemnity or grandeur of speech and manner which meeting a fragment of a murdered god would demand - instead, it felt that I was applying for a job at an NGO.
The game is littered with dialogue such as the above, as well as an excess of quirky and twee conversations and scenes which, though always a feature of the franchise, dominate Veilguard to a sickly sweet degree; indeed, Rook himself often resorts to quips during tense situations, which is especially frustrating when the dialogue wheel suggests a stoic or tough response will follow. This creates both a sense of tonal whiplash when contrasted against the stakes the characters face, and gives the impression of some (though not all) characters being written around recycled tropes deployed in previous instalments.
This lack of true originality or ability to respond appropriately or deeply to the events happening around Rook are borne out in other aspects of the game. Some scenes seem suspiciously similarly to those featured in other RPGs both produced by BioWare and other studios, sometimes appearing to have been ripped directly from them and repurposed to fit the Dragon Age setting. Further, companions, and Rook himself, will often repeat themselves, falling back on stock phrases or clobbering the player with a single aspect of their personality and giving the impression that they are defined by simply two or three superficial characteristics: Lucanis, for example, a character I was excited to discover prior to release, talked at length in at least four conversations about his love of coffee, yet I had no opportunity to explore in any depth his personal history, worldview, his attitude to his employment as an assassin or his questionable relationship with his family. This preference for the superficial over the substantial sadly defines swathes of characterisation in Veilguard.
The above does not apply universally, and there are characters which expand the horizons of the world of Dragon Age and recall the internal conflicts of mind and heart which have historically made BioWare games so appealing. Emmrich is such a character, and the companion I felt most challenged and impressed by, not least due to the fact Rook is able to express discomfort at Emmrich's occupation, leading to the two challenging each other's preconceptions (albeit, on Rook's part, in an often displeasingly squeamish manner). This depth, however, is unfortunately rare and despite marketing for DAV being centred around the companions, I found them on the whole to be the weakest cast of any DA game so far, with a few exceptions.
The often shallow characterisation of companions is mirrored by by a surprisingly diminutive sense of scale and purpose in the overall plot, which juxtaposes jarringly with the supremely high stakes our characters contend with. The allies Rook gathers to combat the apocalyptic nature of the threat in Veilguard occasionally left me questioning their competence and suitability for such an undertaking: rather than marshalling the armies of the nations of Southern Thedas, Rook relies on an occasionally ragtag band of of militias and paramilitary groups, whose role in main and side quests left me questioning whether they were really the best people for the job This often manifested in small but striking ways. In one companion quest, I cleared a warehouse in Minrathous of Venatori, and was assured by the Shadow Dragons they would protect the site against future incursions. Yet several hours later in the game, I returned to the same location to find it overrun with enemies yet again. If my allies can't be trusted to protect one warehouse, are they truly up to the task of defeating risen gods?
Although my interactions with more established factions such as the Grey Wardens and Mortalitasi felt meaningful, DAV is riddled with loose threads which are left hanging even by the games conclusion. To name but a few, we never establish why it was possible for Davrin to kill an archdemon without sacrificing his own life , previously a central aspect of established Warden lore - indeed, this mystery is acknowledge only in passing. The seismic and, literally, world-shattering revelations around the origin of the Blight, its impact on the Chantry's theology, the effect of the elven gods' return on Dalish and city elves, are either addressed merely in strangely casual and breezy dialogue, or not at all. There are yet stranger narrative choices surrounding the elevation of the Venatori and Qunari to the game's secondary villains, without any explanation of their motives beyond a nebulous assertion they desired "power". Why would Tevinter supremacists fight on behalf of ancient elves whose people they regard as fit only for slavery and sacrifice? What were the circumstances leading to the Antaam's rebellion and breakaway from the Qun? How has this impacted the war with Tevinter, the situation in Par Vollen? Why do the Antaam lapse from highly disciplined and cerebral soldiers to thuggish henchmen for a cause their culture teaches them to fear and abhor? The game's refusal to address this tells us that the writers don't care, so you shouldn't either. And yet, with three games, multiple non-game media releases, and 15 years of world-building behind us, it's impossible for any dedicated fan not to.
It felt, indeed, that Veilguard often treated the series' pre-existing lore as an inconvenience, an irritant which blockaded the smooth progression of a plot of whose compelling brilliance its writers seemed inexplicably convinced. Indeed, nowhere was this more apparent than the omission of any acknowledgment that events did actually take place in Thedas prior to the tail-end of Inquisition. This could have been a far richer and compelling narrative if player choice in previous games were integrated into the game, yet, far from this, we're informed via a letter that every location in which the previous games took place are effectively destroyed beyond repair, the characters within them presumably dead. Quite aside from the way this breaks the cardinal "show, don't tell" rule of good writing, I couldn't help but feel this was an act of, at best, laziness on the writers' part, and at worst, spite born from a desire to punish longtime fans for their misplaced investment in the world of Dragon Age pre-Veilguard, and wipe the slate clean for future instalments which will now, necessarily, be founded on what feels like a far shallower, poorer and less compelling world than the one established over the previous 15 years. This likewise applies to many returning characters, whose contributions to the plot feel shoehorned, not least because it's impossible to interrogate them as to their own pasts - it becomes difficult to connect meaningfully to a character when one receives the impression they don't know, or are unwilling to give away, anything about their own history, particularly given some, such as Morrigan, are talked of as being embroiled in some of the most significant events in Thedas of the previous 20, in-game years.
The above does not apply to every act and scene of the game. Interactions with Solas throughout the game were a reminder of the delicate and often beautiful character writing on which BioWare built its reputation. Events in Act 3, in which I was hit with twist after twist, devastating turn after devastating turn, elevated the game's coda to high drama which represented some of the most impactful and memorable writing and visual sequences I've seen in any video game, drawn together in an elegant and satisfying conclusion. It left me bitterly sad and disappointed this level of quality was reserved for a few hours at the game's conclusion however, and was realised only after dozens of hours of pablum.
Much more ink could be spilled on the manifold issues with Veilguard's writing at the micro level, but this post is already longer than intended, and there are yet further issues with the game that I'll attempt to summarise here. DAV's combat began as one of the game's highlights, a striking improvement from any previous instalment, and although it kept me relatively challenged throughout, enemies often felt repetitive, with a limited range of attacks which could be predicted ahead of time based on their type. There are similarly hordes of low level foes in this game, which will respawn in an area sometimes after simply visiting an adjoining room. There is no mechanic in Veilguard which acknowledges I've 'cleared out' an area of the map, and it sometimes felt as though the game assumed I wanted to fight as much as possible rather than being allowed to explore unfettered.
The game's combat is further defined by comprehensive skill trees which allow us to access unique, class-based abilities, which are engaging and fun, but absent from any part of our skill development is the option to select non-combat based skills. There are vanishingly few options in Veilguard to resolve
A similar problem exists with the endless puzzles which litter the game, which are simultaneously so simple, ubiquitous and repetitive in form, they become a major source of tedium which serve no purpose except to impede progress and pad the game out with needless content. This was reflected in the game's quest design, which often had me run between points A - D, collecting various notes and trinkets, with a litany of side quests following a formula in which we were tasked with finding a missing person from an allied faction who, in almost every case, I was able quickly guess when the quest started my target would already be dead by the time I got to them. None of the side content in this game felt truly meaningful, and felt like a clumsily disguised repeat of the infamous fetch quests which bedevilled Inquisition. Much of this felt like it was a holdover from the game's day as a live service product, with simplistic and low-impact objectives which served only to punctuate a cavalcade of hack and slash combat.
Overall, then, I found Veilguard to be a baffling, shockingly disappointing, and sad entry to the series. I was stunned that this game was the end product of a ten year development cycle, and felt to a degree misled by much of the marketing and developer statements which preceded the game's release. BioWare's future remains uncertain, and so, necessarily, does Dragon Age's. If this is the series' swan song, I can't help but regard it as a tragically unworthy bookend to a series which has previously been so richly crafted, and which teemed with narrative potential which has gone unfulfilled. If, however, Veilguard is the stepping stone to a blank state worldstate in which the series undergoes an explicit reboot, I can't say with any confidence the game has left the franchise at a point that makes a retained investment appealing at all.
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