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Post by Kappa Neko on Nov 6, 2024 18:20:07 GMT
Omg, apparently they started a book club in the Lighthouse.......
I can't even.
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Post by gervaise21 on Nov 6, 2024 18:21:47 GMT
A beautifully written critical text of the game in Reddit right now. It basically nails all my thoughts about the game: the good, the bad and the ugly (as the writer themselves said) all together. Thank you for posting this in full. I feel for that poor player and all the rest of you who put yourself through the wringer so I didn't have to. Also I didn't realise it was as bad as this when it comes to the setting and the ditching of the Keep. It felt, indeed, that Veilguard often treated the series' pre-existing lore as an inconvenience, an irritant which blockaded the smooth progression of a plot of whose compelling brilliance its writers seemed inexplicably convinced. Indeed, nowhere was this more apparent than the omission of any acknowledgment that events did actually take place in Thedas prior to the tail-end of Inquisition. This could have been a far richer and compelling narrative if player choice in previous games were integrated into the game, yet, far from this, we're informed via a letter that every location in which the previous games took place are effectively destroyed beyond repair, the characters within them presumably dead. Quite aside from the way this breaks the cardinal "show, don't tell" rule of good writing, I couldn't help but feel this was an act of, at best, laziness on the writers' part, and at worst, spite born from a desire to punish longtime fans for their misplaced investment in the world of Dragon Age pre-Veilguard, and wipe the slate clean for future instalments which will now, necessarily, be founded on what feels like a far shallower, poorer and less compelling world than the one established over the previous 15 years. So they basically killed off everyone from the previous games off screen, with a few exceptions, just so they never have to bother with them again and then tell you it in a letter. I'm not normally given to profanity but FUCK YOU BIOWARE.
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Post by Envisionary on Nov 6, 2024 18:37:23 GMT
Regarding what's going on in the south
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Nimlowyn
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Post by Nimlowyn on Nov 6, 2024 18:45:45 GMT
I might get that EA subscription thing which is $15 bucks a month or something, try to finish Veilguard in a month then cancel. But I'm busy with little kids and it took me 5 months to finish a DAI playthrough without the DLC, so I dunno if that makes sense for me.
Trespasser was so good the future looked bright, but over the years I became skeptical, even cynical, about the writing. And even I'm stunned that the gulf in quality is *this wide* between Veilguard and the other games. Sometimes I catch myself thinking okay maybe play the game and maybe on balance it's not so bad, but a rotten apple spoils the bunch, and there are several rotten apples.
I really enjoy combat and environmental design, I appreciate good UI, but it's the writing that carries Dragon Age for me, and if that's not good it's hard to justify playing. I feel sad for people in other departments because it looks like some aspects of Veilguard are well done.
Maybe one day superior writing leads will get a crack at it.
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Post by witchcocktor on Nov 6, 2024 18:47:43 GMT
I am DYING for a '' Making of Veilguard '' exposé that recounts all the drama, infighting and issues with the development from the past 10 years. I need it like I need air.
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Post by LawBringerSR2 on Nov 6, 2024 18:51:15 GMT
Omg, apparently they started a book club in the Lighthouse....... I can't even. I bet it has nothing to do with Amaranthine's collection of NSFW novels, that would be too daring for this new Dragon Age I suppose
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...lives for biotic explosions. And cheesecake!
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Post by Kappa Neko on Nov 6, 2024 18:56:58 GMT
Omg, apparently they started a book club in the Lighthouse....... I can't even. I bet it has nothing to do with Amaranthine's collection of NSFW novels, that would be too daring for this new Dragon Age I suppose Of course not! Although it could be because a romances subplot is mentioned. It's like the Lighthouse stuff is a completely different game...
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Post by fenalaslavellan on Nov 6, 2024 19:00:58 GMT
A beautifully written critical text of the game in Reddit right now. It basically nails all my thoughts about the game: the good, the bad and the ugly (as the writer themselves said) all together. Thank you for posting this in full. I feel for that poor player and all the rest of you who put yourself through the wringer so I didn't have to. Also I didn't realise it was as bad as this when it comes to the setting and the ditching of the Keep. It felt, indeed, that Veilguard often treated the series' pre-existing lore as an inconvenience, an irritant which blockaded the smooth progression of a plot of whose compelling brilliance its writers seemed inexplicably convinced. Indeed, nowhere was this more apparent than the omission of any acknowledgment that events did actually take place in Thedas prior to the tail-end of Inquisition. This could have been a far richer and compelling narrative if player choice in previous games were integrated into the game, yet, far from this, we're informed via a letter that every location in which the previous games took place are effectively destroyed beyond repair, the characters within them presumably dead. Quite aside from the way this breaks the cardinal "show, don't tell" rule of good writing, I couldn't help but feel this was an act of, at best, laziness on the writers' part, and at worst, spite born from a desire to punish longtime fans for their misplaced investment in the world of Dragon Age pre-Veilguard, and wipe the slate clean for future instalments which will now, necessarily, be founded on what feels like a far shallower, poorer and less compelling world than the one established over the previous 15 years. So they basically killed off everyone from the previous games off screen, with a few exceptions, just so they never have to bother with them again and then tell you it in a letter. I'm not normally given to profanity but FUCK YOU BIOWARE. I assumed you already knew about all of that gervaise, otherwise I would have said it sooner. lol All of the info that the south has been destroyed is given to us by Morrigan and the Inquisitor. And later before the final battle via Inquisitor's codex updates. Here are the following quotes by the Inquisitor and Morrigan:
"Most of the South is under siege by darkspawn. The forces deployed to the South - the strange new darkspawn - have spread fear and corruption greater than any Blight in history"
"Darkspawn have cut through the center of Orlais. Val Royeaux and Halamshiral are barely holding out. Ferelden would have fallen already if not for help from Orzammar. With Denerim lost, the Fereldans are holding the line at Redcliffe. The Free Marches have the worst of it. Acting Viscount Aveline Vallen led the evacuation of Kirkwall. She's taking her people and what's left of her army to help prince Vael keep Starkhaven."
Just to make sure that our choices won't matter anymore, like EVER. And the Inquisitor's codex updates, well they tell us that the leadership of Orlais, meaning the ones we put in power during DAI, were killed by Venatori. lol
I'll give you a moment to contemplate how lazy, spiteful and pathetic this is. Weekes and co HATE the older fans, the writing and everything else. The south is forever gone, the north was destroyed by the writing anyway, and now they can have their own happy new world with the Illuminati Executors. I also truly love how Ghilan'nain and Elgar'nan remain mostly north while the bulk of their super powerful army anihilates the south of Thedas on a whim.
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Post by Liepsnele on Nov 6, 2024 19:08:56 GMT
I just feel lied to. I remember how surprised the fandom was at the art direction and combat changes and the devs who were heavily involved in the marketing campaign kept saying that despite all the changes, the writing is great and the companions are better than in all previous games, it will not disappoint.
I thought ok, it looks really goofy now but at least we're getting a proper story. Turns out, that was a lie. Interactions with Solas and main quest are good so far but the companions are so boring and the dialogue just sucks! Everything, from the plot points being repeated over and over again to make sure they are drilled into player's head, to the companions describing the emotions they are feeling instead of expressing them.
Maybe I had high expectations, as a run of the mill RPG it's fine, nothing special but nothing terrible either. I just expected the dialogues to be good and lore to stay consistent. I didn't even expect a great main quest because Corypheus story was not great either.
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Post by Kyros on Nov 6, 2024 19:13:34 GMT
Regarding what's going on in the south Well that was horrible. How can anyone even be excited for any future Dragon Age? Also how are the Venatori still a thing? When I saw them in the first gameplay trailer I assumed that we would fight its remnants still sore about Corypheus but in the actual game they have the numbers to threaten nations? That's just dumb kinda like Cerberus in ME3, it's like inquisition didn't matter at all.
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wright1978
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Post by wright1978 on Nov 6, 2024 19:18:58 GMT
gervaise21 Taash and Qun spoilers from Act I I'm not trying to create excuses for their retcons but I think what Taash said about the Qun, that you "can leave it", makes sense in the context of her story. Let's say she's 20 (acting like a tween). Her bio mom is also a Tamassaran so could actually raise her own kid when usually they can't. They're also in Rivain. And about 15 years before, her mother just picks her up and walks out of whatever sort of living arrangements the Qunari had there. But we're talking about moderately established Ravaini outpost in a country that mostly tolerates their presence peacefully. Where the rule of thumb for this branch is gentle guidance into the fold. They can't be seen by the general populace as enforcing the Qun like they would in Seharon. There can't re rumors of re-education camps and Qamek. Likely, if someone they did want to keep did something bad enough, maybe they sent them back to Seharon as the worst case scenario.
So in a loosely enforced Qun compound 15-20 years ago in Ravaini, Tama could just walk away from the Qun. And Taash would not have experienced it any differently-- her own mother still seems to carry strong pride for the way of the Qun and has hidden her away from the dark truths of the religion. White washed the Qamek stories as happening to only those causing actual harm (the bad deserving(. And Taash would then look at what the Antaam is doing and find it completely alien to this idealized version she's been raised on and exposed to. Similar to Tallis' version of the qun being all butterflies as well considering she was gently converted of her own free will-- the gaffe of trying to sell it to a mage Hawke not withstanding. I don't really buy that not least because if like Sera they are meant to be a character with questional views the player would/should have chance to get into real conflict with those views. Instead they very much seems to be a mouthpiece for Weekes' new lore.
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Post by Mikado on Nov 6, 2024 19:21:29 GMT
At this point the only way I'm ever going to play this game is if someone makes a mod that either:
a ) adds a "Shut up, Wesley" dialogoue option to quickly end annoying convos with companions
or
b ) adds laugh tracks so I can treat it as a parody game
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Free me now, I'm not answering questions, blah blah blah. Don't you know who I am?
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Post by andorvex on Nov 6, 2024 19:31:54 GMT
Played the game some more today. Finished recruiting all of the companions. I think this game is bad at both the story and storytelling. This game does give very strong ME2 vibes but that only works against it, because it reminds how much better each recruitment quest in that game was than this half assed quests in this one.
It feels just... Sloppy. Barely any plot, they tried to have every recruitment quest its own short story like in me2, but like I said, these stories are extremely basic and awfully executed, and feel like chores much more than interesting short stories meant to expand the lore.
Taash is like Jack if Jack was horribly written. And I don't think Jack is the best character in ME2, far from it, but she's leagues above Taash and her cringe dialogue
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Post by grallon on Nov 6, 2024 19:39:38 GMT
I am DYING for a '' Making of Veilguard '' exposé that recounts all the drama, infighting and issues with the development from the past 10 years. I need it like I need air. You can start by looking at the SmashJT Youtube channel, for context.
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sentinel87
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by sentinel87 on Nov 6, 2024 19:47:54 GMT
Thoughts on the last letter from the Inquisitor. It's just bad. Bioware could easily work around it by saying the Inquistor was wrong or the new blight wasn't as corrosive or something. But it really feels like that's two franchises in which they want to move away from earlier choices.
Ferelden, Kirkwall, Orlais. Doesn't matter now who rules or what's going on there because they don't exist.
I get that it's hard, but it's such a core part to me of Bioware games. Building that world and seeing the little things in the next games was some of my favorite little bits of DA and ME games. That whole thing sours my feelings a bit for the earlier games. Even though I know it shouldn't. That annoys me.
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Post by grallon on Nov 6, 2024 19:50:04 GMT
I'll give you a moment to contemplate how lazy, spiteful and pathetic this. Weekes and co HATE the older fans, the writing and everything else. The south is forever gone, the north was destroyed by the writing anyway, and now they can have their own happy new world with the Illuminati Executors. I also truly love how Ghilan'nain and Elgar'nan remain mostly north while the bulk of their super powerful army anihilates the south of Thedas on a whim. Hmm so, in other words, had these two concentrated their efforts and armies in the North where they were operating, they could have easily overpowered any resistance. Lazy, sloppy and spiteful is about right.
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Post by grallon on Nov 6, 2024 19:52:09 GMT
That whole thing sours my feelings a bit for the earlier games. Even though I know it shouldn't. That annoys me. Reminds you of S8 of GoT doesn't it? Tried re-reading the first book recently, just couldn't get into it knowing what was to come.
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Post by themikefest on Nov 6, 2024 20:07:16 GMT
At this point the only way I'm ever going to play this game is if someone makes a mod that either: a ) adds a "Shut up, Wesley" dialogoue option to quickly end annoying convos with companions I would like to see a shutup companion mod when fighting enemies. It's annoying hearing to your left, to your right, behind you, and other comment's x number of times
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Post by LawBringerSR2 on Nov 6, 2024 20:10:56 GMT
That whole thing sours my feelings a bit for the earlier games. Even though I know it shouldn't. That annoys me. Reminds you of S8 of GoT doesn't it? Tried re-reading the first book recently, just couldn't get into it knowing what was to come. I don't dislike the ending itself of Dany being the greatest threat to Westeros and Jon having to put her down at the cost of his freedom, but if I have to hear another brain dead joke about Jon being short one more time...
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Post by journey95 on Nov 6, 2024 20:12:22 GMT
Regarding what's going on in the south Reminds me of the Star Wars Sequel Trilogy where they took a shit on all the accomplishments of Luke & co. just to push their new badly written characters
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Post by journey95 on Nov 6, 2024 20:15:12 GMT
Played the game some more today. Finished recruiting all of the companions. I think this game is bad at both the story and storytelling. This game does give very strong ME2 vibes but that only works against it, because it reminds how much better each recruitment quest in that game was than this half assed quests in this one. It feels just... Sloppy. Barely any plot, they tried to have every recruitment quest its own short story like in me2, but like I said, these stories are extremely basic and awfully executed, and feel like chores much more than interesting short stories meant to expand the lore. Taash is like Jack if Jack was horribly written. And I don't think Jack is the best character in ME2, far from it, but she's leagues above Taash and her cringe dialogue The problem is also that the companion questlines are really dragged out. In ME2 almost every squadmate got a recruitment mission and then a loyalty mission. Thats it In Veilguard the companion stories just won't stop and they are such a chore. It doesn't help that the companions are all so boring and bland. There is no real struggle, no moral dilemma
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Post by LawBringerSR2 on Nov 6, 2024 20:15:15 GMT
Thoughts on the last letter from the Inquisitor. It's just bad. Bioware could easily work around it by saying the Inquistor was wrong or the new blight wasn't as corrosive or something. But it really feels like that's two franchises in which they want to move away from earlier choices.
Ferelden, Kirkwall, Orlais. Doesn't matter now who rules or what's going on there because they don't exist.
I get that it's hard, but it's such a core part to me of Bioware games. Building that world and seeing the little things in the next games was some of my favorite little bits of DA and ME games. That whole thing sours my feelings a bit for the earlier games. Even though I know it shouldn't. That annoys me. The Blighted status effect has to be the most contradictory thing in DAV. It's like Thedas is experiencing a Soft Blight of sorts
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Post by grallon on Nov 6, 2024 20:17:53 GMT
I don't dislike the ending itself of Dany being the greatest threat to Westeros and Jon having to put her down at the cost of his freedom, but if I have to hear another brain dead joke about Jon being short one more time... Short? I don't get the reference. As for the plot points, no - none of them are bad per se, it's the execution that's terrible. I mean I can easily see Dany becoming caught in her own mystique and gradually turning into a tyrant - not a 3 min scene where she seems to have a seizure then flips and goes on a rampage.
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Post by LawBringerSR2 on Nov 6, 2024 20:19:09 GMT
Regarding what's going on in the south Reminds me of the Star Wars Sequel Trilogy where they took a shit on all the accomplishments of Luke & co. just to push their new badly written characters They have that in common: they were made by non-longtime fans for non-longtime fans. What you get as a result is something that doesn't fit and lacks coherence with the previous installments
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Post by LawBringerSR2 on Nov 6, 2024 20:23:36 GMT
I don't dislike the ending itself of Dany being the greatest threat to Westeros and Jon having to put her down at the cost of his freedom, but if I have to hear another brain dead joke about Jon being short one more time... Short? I don't get the reference. As for the plot points, no - none of them are bad per se, it's the execution that's terrible. I mean I can easily see Dany becoming caught in her own mystique and gradually turning into a tyrant - not a 3 min scene where she seems to have a seizure then flips and goes on a rampage. We definitely needed a 10 chapter season of tyrant Dany, not a chapter and a half. Or at least her descent into madness should have been implied more strongly as the books do. There are some jokes about Jon's height in the early chapters of S8 (Sansa/Dany conversation for instance), it sounded like Benioff and Weiss are a couple of assholes.
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