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Post by Biotic Commando on Nov 12, 2024 14:49:25 GMT
I laugh my ass off when conservatives talk about "cultural Marxism" as if it was a thing lmao, they really have no clue about what the M word means. As they have no clue about what communism means. Is this when you tell us "true" socialism was never tried before? Bruh! There's no such thing as true socialism. You have missed my point, I was agreeing with the user I quoted with the fact that right-wingers throw away the word "Marxist" and "commie" to designate anything they don't like, which means they don't know the actual meaning of those concepts.
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Post by kalreegar on Nov 12, 2024 14:55:34 GMT
it just occurred to me that Dragon Age: The Last Court characters and advisor were immensely more complex, interesting, three-dimensional and well-written companions of the DAV. And I am not using hyperbole.
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Post by grallon on Nov 12, 2024 15:01:53 GMT
You have missed my point, I was agreeing with the user I quoted with the fact that right-wingers throw away the word "Marxist" and "commie" to designate anything they don't like, which means they don't know the actual meaning of those concepts. Thank you for clarifying.
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Post by warden on Nov 12, 2024 15:04:54 GMT
All this just made me realize that, everything you did in origins was for naught, specially ultimate sacrifice.
Insert sad realization face emoji/meme*
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Post by yarus on Nov 12, 2024 15:38:52 GMT
This is a good video, I can't believe they haphazardly nuked southern thedas I agree with this guy in the video 100%. I couldn't have put it better myself, although I have expressed some similar sentiments on this thread. When he was saying about how they want to wipe away the past so they can continue in the future without having to be constrained by it, this thought popped into my mind "unburdened by what has been". That is part of a political ideology originally promoted by Marx. You no longer learn from the past as we previously did, so you do not repeat their mistakes but nevertheless continue those things that were good about it. You erase the past so the current regime is the only one you ever know. Ironically the writers of the earlier games understood this. So, they introduced the idea of the Chantry removing parts of the Chant for political reasons, of Drakon destroying every cult of Andraste that did not agree with his own, even possibly the Keepers of the Lore in the Dales conveniently ignoring inconvenient aspects of the history of their gods (we will never get to the bottom now whether they knew the truth about the abuses of the gods). What was clear was how forgetting the past was dangerous to the present and did mean that people would be destined to repeat their mistakes. However having an idealised view of what the world once was and thinking you could restore that without the bad aspects, as Solas wanted to do, was equally faulty. Clearly, the current writers didn't understand this because they are of the mindset that everything in the past is bad and needs to be destroyed, to be replaced by their own vision. As the guy in the video says, this is not just true of Dragon Age writers but across the entertainment industry. Instead of having the courage to create their own new franchise embodying the ideology and stories they want to tell, they use a franchise with an established popularity and then destroy what other people have created before them, replacing it with their own "vision". Then they wonder why people attack what they have done and refuse to buy their product. Then they claim they are the victims of toxic fans who are racist, sexist, transphobic, etc, etc. No, I just refuse to buy into your bull****, literally. I've never read Marx, but I imagine that even if the writers did take inspiration from him - it would be similar to how lolbertarians and other meatheads view Rand - that is, fetishizing her, putting her work up on a pedestal and pretending it's immune from criticism, and arguably misunderstanding or coopting elements of her work in an ignorant or bad faith way. I personally think this is the controlled destruction of the setting, that Bioware made this game so haphazardly to all but ensure there won't be any consumer or internal demand to ever go to it again, and I think the way they've handled the South is a very big part of that puzzle. Rather than setting the game primarily in Tevinter, or bisecting it by 2/3 Tevinter, 1/3 Par Vollen or Kal Sharok, they essentially did a speed run through all of Northern Thedas - Rivain, the Anderfels, Antiva and Tevinter. So rather than focusing one very specific corner of the world and fleshing it out with love and care --- aka Kirkwall in Dragon Age 2 ---- they just zerged through everything. Throughout this entire game's development, I could not and still cannot shake the feeling a non insignificant part of Bioware's staff resents Dragon Age and wants to only focus on Mass Effect or their next inevitable bomb like Anthem.
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Post by kalreegar on Nov 12, 2024 15:39:17 GMT
All this just made me realize that, everything you did in origins was for naught, specially ultimate sacrifice. it has been quite clear since the Inquisition. the ultimate sacrifice (by the Hof or Alistair/Loghain) has always been a matter of dignity and honour, and of respecting the moral imperative of refusing to be part of Morrigan's gruesome creepy rituals, never of ‘consequences’.
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Post by gervaise21 on Nov 12, 2024 15:46:13 GMT
Lol that has nothing to do with Marx(ism). It's just become a right wing catch-all-phrase for any kind of ideological view they don't like. Jesus was hundred times more of an idealist/communist than Marx ever was. Jesus didn't reject the past though. In fact he frequently drew on it for his teaching. The same was true of his followers. That is what I was getting at. Where do you think George Orwell got his ideas for Animal Farm and 1984? By becoming disillusioned with systems that grew out of Marxist ideology. I still think 1984 is one of the most chilling books ever written. I understand they put a trigger warning on it now. It should be compulsory reading so people never forget the warning it contains. I couldn't believe it when they made the terms Big Brother and Room 101 into the names of light entertainment shows. Talk about dumbing something down so people think they know what it is about, when they really don't. I laugh my ass off when conservatives talk about "cultural Marxism" as if it was a thing lmao, they really have no clue about what the M word means. As they have no clue about what communism means. I feel the same when people talk about "cultural Christianity" or try to claim Jesus for either the left or the right. He is unique.
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Post by kalreegar on Nov 12, 2024 15:48:02 GMT
the writing team did not have the ability (or enough time, I suspect that Veilguard is the 4th or 5th "reboot" of DA4) to write something like Velen/Novigrad or Baldur's Gate/Wilderness or Kirkwall/Amaranthine.
Take some fantasy stereotypes and overlap them on the pre-established Lore.
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Biotic Commando
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Post by Biotic Commando on Nov 12, 2024 15:54:08 GMT
Lol that has nothing to do with Marx(ism). It's just become a right wing catch-all-phrase for any kind of ideological view they don't like. Jesus was hundred times more of an idealist/communist than Marx ever was. Jesus didn't reject the past though. In fact he frequently drew on it for his teaching. The same was true of his followers. That is what I was getting at. Where do you think George Orwell got his ideas for Animal Farm and 1984? By becoming disillusioned with systems that grew out of Marxist ideology. I still think 1984 is one of the most chilling books ever written. I understand they put a trigger warning on it now. It should be compulsory reading so people never forget the warning it contains. I couldn't believe it when they made the terms Big Brother and Room 101 into the names of light entertainment shows. Talk about dumbing something down so people think they know what it is about, when they really don't. I laugh my ass off when conservatives talk about "cultural Marxism" as if it was a thing lmao, they really have no clue about what the M word means. As they have no clue about what communism means. I feel the same when people talk about "cultural Christianity" or try to claim Jesus for either the left or the right. He was unique. This is the last thing I'll say about this subject as to not derail the thread further, but this is exactly the reason why I can't take seriously the so-called "progressive" groups that align with Marxist ideology. Marxism/communist regimes are not exactly in favor of human progress/human rights, therefore those who consider themselves progressive should not support that ideology. So neither conservatives nor "progressives" are aware of what those concepts mean.
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Post by Ieldra on Nov 12, 2024 15:55:54 GMT
I personally think this is the controlled destruction of the setting, that Bioware made this game so haphazardly to all but ensure there won't be any consumer or internal demand to ever go to it again, and I think the way they've handled the South is a very big part of that puzzle. Rather than setting the game primarily in Tevinter, or bisecting it by 2/3 Tevinter, 1/3 Par Vollen or Kal Sharok, they essentially did a speed run through all of Northern Thedas - Rivain, the Anderfels, Antiva and Tevinter. So rather than focusing one very specific corner of the world and fleshing it out with love and care --- aka Kirkwall in Dragon Age 2 ---- they just zerged through everything. Throughout this entire game's development, I could not and still cannot shake the feeling a non insignificant part of Bioware's staff resents Dragon Age and wants to only focus on Mass Effect or their next inevitable bomb like Anthem. I see three mindsets at work in the entertainment industry, which may overlap between groups and even within individuals:
(1) The corporate mindset, which wants to milk established fictional settings for everything it can, and doesn't care about their integrity or lore.
(2) The artist's mindset, which wants to be creative without being burdened by tons of old lore and/or wants to leave established settings behind.
(3) The activist's mindset, which wants to either transform or destroy settings that offend their sensibilities and stick it to the the perceived opposition which likes those settings.
In this case, I see mostly a mix of (2) and (3) at work. And yes, I think there is considerable resentment among the writers. Perhaps not so much towards Dragon Age as such, but certainly towards old fans.
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Post by q5tyhj on Nov 12, 2024 16:06:26 GMT
Lol that has nothing to do with Marx(ism). It's just become a right wing catch-all-phrase for any kind of ideological view they don't like. Jesus was hundred times more of an idealist/communist than Marx ever was. You can apply the same line of thinking with Christianity, Capitalism, Buddhism, Enlightenment movement..literally every kind of reactionary movement that arose from dissatisfaction with their current day system ( until it, by itself, is consolidated as-it-always-should-be traditionalism). This is plain narcissism and just lazy effort from the writers to give a franchise " a new slate" going forward ( which they don't really have to worry about, as they've probably killed the series). I laugh my ass off when conservatives talk about "cultural Marxism" as if it was a thing lmao, they really have no clue about what the M word means. As they have no clue about what communism means. "cultural marxism" is an anti-semitic far (far, far) right conspiracy theory- not really any more blatant way of telling on yourself than using a phrase like this unironically, anyone who uses it can be disregarded completely (and/or laughed at) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Marxism
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Post by Iddy on Nov 12, 2024 16:59:35 GMT
I laugh my ass off when conservatives talk about "cultural Marxism" as if it was a thing lmao, they really have no clue about what the M word means. As they have no clue about what communism means. "cultural marxism" is an anti-semitic far (far, far) right conspiracy theory- not really any more blatant way of telling on yourself than using a phrase like this unironically, anyone who uses it can be disregarded completely (and/or laughed at) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Marxism In the past 10 years we have seen movies, series and games inserting commonly known ideological terms and phrases into their dialogue, but there is always this one guy who will turn around and say "You're imagining things". This is some insane gaslighting. As for that "source" you cited, this is only proof that we should be mindful in our use of wikipedia, considering that any deranged activist can edit it out and fill the page with buzzwords and pretentious fanfiction. I also couldn't care less about any purist notions of what Marxism really, really, really is. What matters is which ideas, people and movements are affiliated with it.
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Post by ellanathehamster on Nov 12, 2024 17:52:09 GMT
Damn, you really don't appreciate good things until you lose them. Why can't I be like this playing as Rook??
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Post by ellanathehamster on Nov 12, 2024 17:56:45 GMT
Alsoo, isn't it hilarious that no one seems to blame Rook for indirectly killing millions people? Because of her gods are freed, blight destroys south of Thedas, half of north is also in shambles. Whatever it takes to stop Solas, huh
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Post by andorvex on Nov 12, 2024 18:02:52 GMT
Damn, you really don't appreciate good things until you lose them. Why can't I be like this playing as Rook?? Yep. I still think you can see the seeds of doom in inquisition, but regardless of its flaws, seriously comparing it to Veilguard is quite insulting
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Post by Ieldra on Nov 12, 2024 18:11:20 GMT
I see three mindsets at work in the entertainment industry, which may overlap between groups and even within individuals:
(1) The corporate mindset, which wants to milk established fictional settings for everything it can, and doesn't care about their integrity or lore.
(2) The artist's mindset, which wants to be creative without being burdened by tons of old lore and/or wants to leave established settings behind.
(3) The activist's mindset, which wants to either transform or destroy settings that offend their sensibilities and stick it to the the perceived opposition which likes those settings.
In this case, I see mostly a mix of (2) and (3) at work. And yes, I think there is considerable resentment among the writers. Perhaps not so much towards Dragon Age as such, but certainly towards old fans.
Except for very few, rare exceptions, most of activism is just a mix of incompetence and narcissism.
Old Bioware writers would emphasize diversity by adding a Qunari, culture with very different values and beliefs, but show over time that someone like them can find some common ground with the player. Sten from Origins was exactly that.
Recent Bioware writers would change Qunari themselves into tolerant advocates of personal freedom, making them hardly different from us. But this also leads to dull narrative, lack of any real, meaningful conflict, obstacles to overcome.
It's more an issue with modern day infantilization and narcissism, exacerberated by the social media where most people live in their own positive echo chambers. ( this is true for both, left and right, on side of political spectrum..it's like watching toddlers fling shit at one another all day). I mean..adult person who call themselves "gendermancer"? Or another that changes his name from Patrick to "Trick", dyes his hair blue..while in his 50s? I really doubt these people are some kind of sophisticated evil masterminds on a quest to destroy their own culture. Evil masterminds? No, that's not what I meant. I don't believe in conspiracies like that. The thing is, even a spoiled child is perfectly capable of destroying a toy because it doesn't want others to enjoy it. And the creative sector is full of artists, who have a reputation for being narcissistic and otherwise emotionally unstable, and for being mostly aligned with each other in their political persuasion. So it's a a problem of people in the entertainment industry being aligned because of a clustering of personality traits that predispose people to work in that sector.
However, that alignment alone wouldn't be a problem without the intolerance of the activists' mindset. The artists' mindset alone would eventually come to create new worlds, and I'm sure many of us would like them. Because as gamers, we also tend to be attracted to novelty. The activist's mindset is like that child I mentioned above, perfectly capable of destroying what others like for no better reason than they like it. And yes, it is immature and narcissistic, but no less damaging for it.
BTW, I agree with most of what you said. I was just responding to the last sentence.
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Post by Iakus on Nov 12, 2024 18:12:07 GMT
Damn, you really don't appreciate good things until you lose them. Why can't I be like this playing as Rook?? And a jerk Hero of Fereldan can be SO MUCH WORSE! My blood mage Warden and anti-human Dalish were real class acts!
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Post by floratheelf on Nov 12, 2024 18:16:42 GMT
Damn, you really don't appreciate good things until you lose them. Why can't I be like this playing as Rook?? omg so much sass! "How does it feel to have the power of an ancient elvhen god flowing through you?" "I dont feel any different." god. I was already completely disappointed with DAV, these clips brought that feeling lower than I even thought possible 😢
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Post by Ieldra on Nov 12, 2024 18:22:22 GMT
Damn, you really don't appreciate good things until you lose them. Why can't I be like this playing as Rook?? LOL, that collection really brings home what we had in DAI. Why the heck couldn't we continue to play the Inquisitor? And I mean *that* Inquisitor, with the same personality options. My main Inquisitor was less...er...direct, but she had imperial ambitions. A half-destroyed world would have been the perfect opportunity to spread her rule over Northern Thedas from the Archon's palace in Minrathous, directing the rebuilding of everything, and eventually.....a renewed Tevinter Empire.
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Post by Biotic Commando on Nov 12, 2024 18:25:57 GMT
Damn, you really don't appreciate good things until you lose them. Why can't I be like this playing as Rook?? And a jerk Hero of Fereldan can be SO MUCH WORSE! My blood mage Warden and anti-human Dalish were real class acts! Gods I miss DAO. Not the graphics, not the combat, THE CHOICES
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Post by coldwetn0se on Nov 12, 2024 18:28:38 GMT
Question regarding the weather: Why is it always raining in Minrathous? Reading the description of the Tevinter "appearance" clothing in the wardrobe, states that the articles of armor/clothing are "thick for extra warmth". That too confuses me. I was under the impression that the South was below the planet's equator, and Tevinter was closer to it. Why would they act like it was a cold environment? What did I miss?
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Post by Ieldra on Nov 12, 2024 18:34:57 GMT
Question regarding the weather: Why is it always raining in Minrathous? Reading the description of the Tevinter "appearance" clothing in the wardrobe, states that the articles of armor/clothing are "thick for extra warmth". That too confuses me. I was under the impression that the South was below the planet's equator, and Tevinter was closer to it. Why would they act like it was a cold environment? What did I miss? You missed nothing. I guess whoever wrote that forgot that Thedas is on the southern hemisphere.
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Free me now, I'm not answering questions, blah blah blah. Don't you know who I am?
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Post by andorvex on Nov 12, 2024 18:37:22 GMT
Question regarding the weather: Why is it always raining in Minrathous? Reading the description of the Tevinter "appearance" clothing in the wardrobe, states that the articles of armor/clothing are "thick for extra warmth". That too confuses me. I was under the impression that the South was below the planet's equator, and Tevinter was closer to it. Why would they act like it was a cold environment? What did I miss? You probably missed the fact Bioware don't care about these things anymore and you care and know about them much more at this point. I doubt anyone of the main writers even knows this, and even if someone does, I doubt they remember
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Post by grallon on Nov 12, 2024 18:51:39 GMT
LOL, that collection really brings home what we had in DAI. Mother Gisèle just joined us in Haven and while I was questioning her about the origins of the first inquisition and the Chantry hierarchy, I started chuckling trying to imagine the Lighthouse crew listening to this with confused expressions on their Pixar faces.
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Post by Ieldra on Nov 12, 2024 19:07:34 GMT
LOL, that collection really brings home what we had in DAI. Mother Gisèle just joined us in Haven and while I was questioning her about the origins of the first inquisition and the Chantry hierarchy, I started chuckling trying to imagine the Lighthouse crew listening to this with confused expressions on their Pixar faces. Oh my....now that you mention it, it is indeed remarkable how parochial the DAV companions appear to be. Compare this with almost every major NPC in DAI. Josephine? Cassandra? Varric? Cullen? Dorian? Giselle? All are quite aware of the larger political and cultural tapestry that affects the Inquisition. And Giselle has genuine wisdom rooted in her faith, which comes across quite nicely even to this here atheist.
So almost no Thedosian politics in this game, instead an overdose of real-world social issues. And people wonder why DAV doesn't feel like Dragon Age.
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