Biotic Commando
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Post by Biotic Commando on Nov 15, 2024 17:49:40 GMT
The third-worst aspect of Veilguard for me is "Everything that's fucked up in Thedas (and then some) happened because Mythal wanted to get laid. Expect maybe the Qunari, but even this is probably debatable." Maybe it's all about "we'll bang ok?" in the end lmfao
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LoonySpectre
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Post by LoonySpectre on Nov 15, 2024 18:00:14 GMT
The third-worst aspect of Veilguard for me is "Everything that's fucked up in Thedas (and then some) happened because Mythal wanted to get laid. Expect maybe the Qunari, but even this is probably debatable." Maybe it's all about "we'll bang ok?" in the end lmfao
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andorvex
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Post by andorvex on Nov 15, 2024 18:01:25 GMT
Ease up the spoilers buddy
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emissaryoflies
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Post by emissaryoflies on Nov 15, 2024 18:06:16 GMT
Yeah. It's funny, but you want to take that down before the fuzz gets here.
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wright1978
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Post by wright1978 on Nov 15, 2024 18:13:43 GMT
I do find it completely bizarre that Bioware went in this direction.
The whole you need the party members is no justification for not allowing real conflict.
I'd love to know if any of the writers fought against it or if its group think. Hopefully its the former as that might spell a tiny bit of hope for any potential future mass effect game.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2024 18:16:48 GMT
So, Epler and Weekes are trying to do damage control about that abysmal post credits scene. Ridiculous, as if trying to lessen the blow would help now that the cat's out of the bag. lol
I suppose I should make it obvious here, ENDGAME SPOILERS
John Epler: okay one other DATV spoiler thing (this has to do with the ending and specifically the extra scene, seriously this is major spoiler territory) (rot13)
the word choice of balanced, whispered, guided is VERY DELIBERATE. no one was forced or coerced or controlled into making any choices
it’s extremely important that ultimately everyone made their own choices. they still own the consequences of these decisions, because dragon age is still a series about people making decisions of their own free will and those decisions having consequences
Trick Weekes: Choice. Spirit.
Bluesky user: It's nice to hear that I won't lie! I was getting the impression that all of these character's decisions and agency was essentially being stripped away to some higher/ or other power that was behind it all. Thank you for clearing it up!
John Epler: that was always the line i wanted to walk - they absolutely made their own choices. but mentioning Sophia’s attempted coup at the right time could be the nudge that firmed up plans that were already percolating.
still though - that was his decision and no one else’s.
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andorvex
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Post by andorvex on Nov 15, 2024 18:19:29 GMT
So, Epler and Weekes are trying to do damage control about that abysmal post credits scene. Ridiculous, as if trying to lessen the blow would help now that the cat's out of the bag. lol John Epler: okay one other DATV spoiler thing (this has to do with the ending and specifically the extra scene, seriously this is major spoiler territory) (rot13)
the word choice of balanced, whispered, guided is VERY DELIBERATE. no one was forced or coerced or controlled into making any choices
it’s extremely important that ultimately everyone made their own choices. they still own the consequences of these decisions, because dragon age is still a series about people making decisions of their own free will and those decisions having consequences
Trick Weekes: Choice. Spirit.
Bluesky user: It's nice to hear that I won't lie! I was getting the impression that all of these character's decisions and agency was essentially being stripped away to some higher/ or other power that was behind it all. Thank you for clearing it up!
John Epler: that was always the line i wanted to walk - they absolutely made their own choices. but mentioning Sophia’s attempted coup at the right time could be the nudge that firmed up plans that were already percolating.
still though - that was his decision and no one else’s. I'm confused now
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emissaryoflies
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Post by emissaryoflies on Nov 15, 2024 18:20:56 GMT
I do find it completely bizarre that Bioware went in this direction.
The whole you need the party members is no justification for not allowing real conflict.
I'd love to know if any of the writers fought against it or if its group think. Hopefully its the former as that might spell a tiny bit of hope for any potential future mass effect game.
It makes no sense at all. Especially when you consider all of the conflict in Inquisition. It doesn't reach Origins' level, but it's still there and it's still of quality. Rumors suggest that things aren't exactly copacetic over at BioWare. I suspect that if writers did speak up, they were drowned out by their peers and delusional positivity. And of course these are just rumors, so salt and all that. Veilguard appears to be another victim of the misunderstood Citadel DLC. Exactly like Andromeda was.
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Post by Kappa Neko on Nov 15, 2024 18:37:53 GMT
Yo there are people like me who haven't finished the game yet and want to find out themselves, so please can we be more careful with spoilers about tne ending? I've already read things I didn't want to know.
Disliking the game doesn't mean I want major story spoilers on just HOW bad it is. I want to experience this live or there's no point in playing.
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grallon
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Post by grallon on Nov 15, 2024 18:46:40 GMT
Ridiculous, as if trying to lessen the blow would help now that the cat's out of the bag. lol Not quite a sinking ship, but definitely a leaking one.
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Post by Envisionary on Nov 15, 2024 18:52:13 GMT
This really changes nothing. Now I'd like to see their PR response to how they handled the south.
"Nah, it's all good. Everything's actually so chill and fine and OK."
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Post by necrowaif on Nov 15, 2024 18:53:27 GMT
Here’s a review of Veilguard from a very little YouTuber (y’know, the ones who get like 200 views on a good day) that I thought was pretty good:
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emissaryoflies
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Post by emissaryoflies on Nov 15, 2024 19:01:58 GMT
Had me in the first fifteen seconds.
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Post by Ieldra on Nov 15, 2024 19:04:06 GMT
What can be said about Andromeda is that it didn't take a big giant shit on the trilogy; we can still go back and explore the Milky Way and tell stories. Especially after the Reapers. They at least gave us that mercy and had dignity. The same cannot be said of Veilguard. Yes. They took a dump on their own legacy. And why? I can't read minds, but it reeks of spite and resentment. At this point I just hope there'll never be another Dragon Age game, then I can at least imagine they'll rebuild in the south, and not have to deal with whatever abomination they'll raise in its place.
Also, I just watched the start of the battle of Ostagar. This makes me shiver even today, and I've watched it countless times over the years. How the hell did we go from there to here? There is not a single scene in DAV, not even in Act 3, that even remotely matches it. It's like the difference between the original LOTR movies and Rings of Power. It's not just the writing that has fallen off a cliff. Cinematic arrangement is not atrociously bad in DAV, and at least the companion scenes in Act 3 are good, but still, how far has DA fallen.
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Post by cockyrustler on Nov 15, 2024 19:47:50 GMT
It almost feel like they designed the game backwards, and didn't really figure out how to make all companions and factions work together as part of larger narrative. Like the "save which city" choice, happens early on. Why on earth should I care about either one? You barely do any quests for them, and you're not in any way responsible for protecting it. And there are no real moral dilemmas which option is the lesser evil. Compare this to choice in Awakening, that happens near the end of the game: saving city of Amaranthine or Grey Warden's Keep. It's a decent dilemma because you have to choose between idealism ( sacrificing your keep for sake of upholding Grey Warden ideals of self sacrifice) and pragmatism ( sacrificing the city, because your trained soldiers are more important during war). And you are emotionally invested because you spent enough time to get to know npcs in both places and sympathize with them. I think story should have been done completely differently, whole structure and flow is completely messed up. Prologue: Several different origins, From playing as Ben'Hassrath, Venatori slaver to Grey Warden, by the end of it you're recruited into organisation to stop Solas ( by Inquisitor him/herself who acts as sort of Illusive Man in ME2, since s/he is disabled by the end), Act I: You have several leads chasing Solas' agents across cities in Thedas, you're working with factions to gain their trust, and recruit potential allies/specialists. At this point nobody really trusts you. Act II: A.k.a shitstorm. Peace agreement is arranged between Tevinter and Imperium, but Solas ( secretly) fucks it up, all out war breaks out. He also manipulates Dalish Elves into uprising, Chantry declares another Exalted March, while Orlais and Ferelden prepare for another war. After this story continues with major wars in the background which you try to defuse ( and convince everyone they are being used as distraction from real catastrophy), while trying to stop his plots.
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Biotic Commando
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Post by Biotic Commando on Nov 15, 2024 19:53:26 GMT
It almost feel like they designed the game backwards, and didn't really figure out how to make all companions and factions work together as part of larger narrative. Like the "save which city" choice, happens early on. Why on earth should I care about either one? You barely do any quests for them, and you're not in any way responsible for protecting it. And there are no real moral dilemmas which option is the lesser evil. Compare this to choice in Awakening, that happens near the end of the game: saving city of Amaranthine or Grey Warden's Keep. It's a decent dilemma because you have to choose between idealism ( sacrificing your keep for sake of upholding Grey Warden ideals of self sacrifice) and pragmatism ( sacrificing the city, because your trained soldiers are more important during war). And you are emotionally invested because you spent enough time to get to know npcs in both places and sympathize with them. I think story should have been done completely differently, whole structure and flow is completely messed up. Prologue: Several different origins, From playing as Ben'Hassrath, Venatori slaver to Grey Warden, by the end of it you're recruited into organisation to stop Solas ( by Inquisitor him/herself who acts as sort of Illusive Man in ME2, since s/he is disabled by the end), Act I: You have several leads chasing Solas' agents across cities in Thedas, you're working with factions to gain their trust, and recruit potential allies/specialists. At this point nobody really trusts you. Act II: A.k.a shitstorm. Peace agreement is arranged between Tevinter and Imperium, but Solas ( secretly) fucks it up, all out war breaks out. He also manipulates Dalish Elves into uprising, Chantry declares another Exalted March, while Orlais and Ferelden prepare for another war. After this story continues with major wars in the background which you try to defuse ( and convince everyone they are being used as distraction from real catastrophy), while trying to stop his plots. I feel like I could forgive all this if the character designs were like DAI graphics and the romances were like BG3 instead of prude jokes (fade to black in 2024, REALLY?)
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Post by necrowaif on Nov 15, 2024 20:10:09 GMT
It almost feel like they designed the game backwards, and didn't really figure out how to make all companions and factions work together as part of larger narrative. Like the "save which city" choice, happens early on. Why on earth should I care about either one? You barely do any quests for them, and you're not in any way responsible for protecting it. And there are no real moral dilemmas which option is the lesser evil. Compare this to choice in Awakening, that happens near the end of the game: saving city of Amaranthine or Grey Warden's Keep. It's a decent dilemma because you have to choose between idealism ( sacrificing your keep for sake of upholding Grey Warden ideals of self sacrifice) and pragmatism ( sacrificing the city, because your trained soldiers are more important during war). And you are emotionally invested because you spent enough time to get to know npcs in both places and sympathize with them. The Amaranthine vs Vigil's Keep decision is also different from choosing what city to save during Veilguard in that you also have to choose to KILL any survivors remaining in Amaranthine by setting the city ablaze, as the only way to prevent these darkspawn from joining the force besieging Vigil's Keep.
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LoonySpectre
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Post by LoonySpectre on Nov 15, 2024 20:22:18 GMT
It almost feel like they designed the game backwards, and didn't really figure out how to make all companions and factions work together as part of larger narrative. It also very much seems that they wrote the game backwards. Act II and III writing is mostly decent and borderline good at times, but Act I makes you quickly exhaust your stash of anti-cringe poultices and feels very rushed, with lots of dialogue looking like placeholders for "we'll write something later... oops, there's no time, let's leave it as is."
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emissaryoflies
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Post by emissaryoflies on Nov 15, 2024 20:28:53 GMT
Got bored on my initial playthrough. Started a mage. More fun already. No wonder people came away from their initial impressions with positive news. Anyway, why is it that whoever you take to 'the ritual' gets 'badly injured' to the point that the game will incessantly mention it? And Rook slams head and back first into a wall, drawing a good amount of blood, and it's as if it never happened. No headwrap, bandage, no mention of it besides as a means to justify meeting Solas in the fade. Narratively, every single thing about this game falls apart if you begin to actually think about any of it. It's the kind of writing a middle school teacher would hail as an example of what not to do.
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LoonySpectre
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Post by LoonySpectre on Nov 15, 2024 20:33:34 GMT
Got bored on my initial playthrough. Started a mage. More fun already. No wonder people came away from their initial impressions with positive news. Anyway, why is it that whoever you take to 'the ritual' gets 'badly injured' to the point that the game will incessantly mention it? And Rook slams head and back first into a wall, drawing a good amount of blood, and it's as if it never happened. No headwrap, bandage, no mention of it besides as a means to justify meeting Solas in the fade. Narratively, every single thing about this game falls apart if you begin to actually think about any of it. It's the kind of writing a middle school teacher would hail as an example of what not to do. What if this is actually a hint that Rook is a figment of Varric's imagination, and not the other way around? After all, Varric and Neve/Harding do look visibly hurt, while Rook doesn't. And everything that happens next is a tall tale spun by a concussed Varric to the Inquisitor.
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