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Post by kingmandu on Oct 24, 2024 7:52:01 GMT
Anyone in here defending EA is a gonk. EA is a BAD company. It took Jedi Fallen Order (a mediocre game that should have sold a max of 1 or 2 mill) to show them sp games were still viable? Company ran by fucking monkeys with fancy nepo baby degrees. The Witcher 3 came out a year after one of your biggest games in 2014 and basically made people forget all about it. From Software had been quietly selling 10 million+ every time out until Elden Ring hit thr jackpot. Fallout 4 sold a ton despite lots of flak from fans. Horizon: ZD, the RPG Assassin's Creed games, Kingdom Come, RDR2, etc etc etc all sold well before JFO came out and EA STILL thought "sp games are dead." Such a fucking stupid company ran by monkeys and supported by sports and gambling addicts. EA is why we had two games that ripped out party members for day 1 DLC, EA is why we got DA2 and a rushed ME3 with Casey Hudson's arrogant juices splattered all over. Yeah, Bioware deserves a lot of flack but the follow-up to ME3 was doomed from the get go. Bioware fans are lunatics and even if Andromeda was a 10/10 GOAT, people were still going to be extra salty about no Shepard, Garrus, or the alien girls they want to fuck. Back on topic, I've swallowed a lot of shit since Veilguard's reveal and alllllllll the stuff that got cut or nerfed into oblivion so all these DA new faces get to make their mark. At the same time, I want to not whine about any of this stuff and just go into it with a completely open mind because the game is getting enough shit from all the incel chud Asmongold fan goblins....but I may have reached "might cancel this pre-order and buy Red Dead Redemption PC instead..." with the most likely complete lack of greatswords in the game. Every Dragon Age game, my first character has always been a 2H Warrior because I love Conan and big fucking weapons. Omitting a weapon type that has been a staple and iconic since the beginning just makes me think Bioware also cut corners in a ton of other places. Like how do you make a medieval fantasy game and NOT HAVE FUCKING GREATSWORDS?! Could've been worse. They might have stuck with the original vision and ended up with Starfield. Starfield makes me totally distrust reviews. There's so mcuh design problems in this game, loading screens, loading screens, talk, talk, loading screen, loading screen, shitty space flight, loading loading screen , fight, walks around aimlessly, loading screen. You got Bethesda very average writing with no real funny world to get lost in. Funny. I felt the same way about every Bethesda game I've played since Oblivion. I don't trust reviews AT ALL these days. Especially not after everyone gave broken ass Baldur's Gate 3 10/10 and jerked it off as the second cumming.
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Post by Gileadan on Oct 24, 2024 7:55:23 GMT
I recall the quote "EA give you enough rope to hang yourself" from someone on the top of BioWare's totem pole, and I think that's exactly what happened here. BioWare took all the rope and hanged themselves good and proper.
Anthem - or, more generally, action multiplayer games - was something they wanted to do, EA didn't make them do it. BioWare wanted to get away from making classic RPGs and get into the action genre. Then they completely bungled and mismanaged Anthem in an amazing display of leadership incompetence and it subsequently cratered to only very few people's surprise. That was pure, unsupervised BioWare going on there, made possible by EA's financing from profits generated by the EA Sports series of games.
There was an EA mandate of some sorts going on for a while that every game should have an online component, but DAI satisfied that demand by adding its tepid multiplayer mode, so making a completely online multiplayer only game was never the requirement.
BioWare mostly chose their own fate, and chose poorly. Consistently.
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The Elder King
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Post by The Elder King on Oct 24, 2024 8:16:06 GMT
I recall the quote "EA give you enough rope to hang yourself" from someone on the top of BioWare's totem pole, and I think that's exactly what happened here. BioWare took all the rope and hanged themselves good and proper. Anthem - or, more generally, action multiplayer games - was something they wanted to do, EA didn't make them do it. BioWare wanted to get away from making classic RPGs and get into the action genre. Then they completely bungled and mismanaged Anthem in an amazing display of leadership incompetence and it subsequently cratered to only very few people's surprise. That was pure, unsupervised BioWare going on there, made possible by EA's financing from profits generated by the EA Sports series of games. There was an EA mandate of some sorts going on for a while that every game should have an online component, but DAI satisfied that demand by adding its tepid multiplayer mode, so making a completely online multiplayer only game was never the requirement. BioWare mostly chose their own fate, and chose poorly. Consistently. Casey Hudson said that DAI satisfied the live-service demand, which, as far as I recall, wasn't actually in place for DAI. He just mentioned when he was head of Bioware that DAI would've technically satisfied the requirement, when asked about it. You could very well be right that it was their own decision to explore multiplayer or go for a fully online experience for DA4, but it just seems weird, to me, that EA would've allowed them to shift to a fully SP experience after 3-4 years of development and add other 3-4 of development to the game. It's a move that makes no sense financially, and find it hard to believe that EA agreed to it if it wasn't its own directive. I guess we could find out about this in more details in years to come, but if that's true, they definitely fumbled the ball hard, and EA, for all its fault, would deserve credit in this regard. I guess this could also explain the changes at the top of DA development team, as there might've been an internal struggle between the two sides.
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helios969
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Post by helios969 on Oct 24, 2024 9:08:55 GMT
It's a move that makes no sense financially, and find it hard to believe that EA agreed to it if it wasn't its own directive. I've wondered at this myself and think it may be a case of EA giving them the rope hoping they'll hang themselves. Whether it's to shut 'em down or just replace the leadership remains to be seen. There's a lot of activism getting shoved into these games nowadays (DAV appears yet another) and it's hurting the bottom line. One thing we know about EA (well all corporations) is they like money and are beholden to their shareholders. I guess this could also explain the changes at the top of DA development team, as there might've been an internal struggle between the two sides. I strongly suspect this as well.
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The Elder King
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Post by The Elder King on Oct 24, 2024 9:27:28 GMT
It's a move that makes no sense financially, and find it hard to believe that EA agreed to it if it wasn't its own directive. I've wondered at this myself and think it may be a case of EA giving them the rope hoping they'll hang themselves. Whether it's to shut 'em down or just replace the leadership remains to be seen. There's a lot of activism getting shoved into these games nowadays (DAV appears yet another) and it's hurting the bottom line. One thing we know about EA (well all corporations) is they like money and are beholden to their shareholders. I guess this could also explain the changes at the top of DA development team, as there might've been an internal struggle between the two sides. I strongly suspect this as well. The problem with that is that it seems unlikely the shareholders would approve of this plan to eventually shut them down or replace the leadership…because they’d be losing money. Wouldn’t it make more sense for them to just go along with the second iteration of the game and trying to contain the losses in that scenario? Even shutting BioWare right away would’ve made more sense, to me personally, then to approve a shift that would add years of cost if it wasn’t a decision that came from the high. But I coudo very well be wrong. One noteworthy thing to consider is that in the financial report EA stated Veilguard’s preorders sales matched their expectations, which would mean that they’re currently on pace on matching the sales’ expectations EA set of the game. Those expectations could very well be low, but that might mean BioWare could have an easier time in making the target set sales wise.
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Post by yarus on Oct 24, 2024 9:59:00 GMT
Could've been worse. They might have stuck with the original vision and ended up with Starfield. As bad as Bioware is, they don't currently have an Emil equivalent. Closest thing to a hack like Emil would be Walters but thankfully he's no longer at Bioware. As much as I bemoan DA4, I'd rather have high fantasy sludge in a dragon age skinsuit than a very bad writer who *considers* himself to be very intelligent, and can't be fired due to nepotism.
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Post by kingmandu on Oct 24, 2024 10:09:53 GMT
I recall the quote "EA give you enough rope to hang yourself" from someone on the top of BioWare's totem pole, and I think that's exactly what happened here. BioWare took all the rope and hanged themselves good and proper. Anthem - or, more generally, action multiplayer games - was something they wanted to do, EA didn't make them do it. BioWare wanted to get away from making classic RPGs and get into the action genre. Then they completely bungled and mismanaged Anthem in an amazing display of leadership incompetence and it subsequently cratered to only very few people's surprise. That was pure, unsupervised BioWare going on there, made possible by EA's financing from profits generated by the EA Sports series of games. There was an EA mandate of some sorts going on for a while that every game should have an online component, but DAI satisfied that demand by adding its tepid multiplayer mode, so making a completely online multiplayer only game was never the requirement. BioWare mostly chose their own fate, and chose poorly. Consistently. That sounds like very poor management from EA as well. Bioware had awful management no doubt and their arrogance, especially Casey Hudson, was a sight to behold. RPG studio wanted to make a looter shooter GAAS yet refuse to analyze Destiny, gee what could go wrong? But how are you going to invest hundreds of millions of dollars and not have a tight grip on the process or some level of oversight beyond the dipshit CEO popping in once a year to take a peek? Game publishers like EA are lucky to have cornered the market on certain sports and have an addicted fanbase that will buy the same crap year in and year out. You also left out the part of it being really hard to get anything approved or additional resources if your project didn't have a constant revenue stream. EA never should have bought Bioware. They're a terrible fit and the fact that EA at one point was surpised at Dragon Age's success and didn't understand it really says it all. I think everyone is spot on about a power struggle. I remember Gaider saying the writers were treated like lepers for a long time at Bioware. Like WHAT?! The main reason Bioware was Bioware was the writing. The egos in the games industry is crazy at times.
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helios969
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Kamisama
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: helios969
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Post by helios969 on Oct 24, 2024 10:13:26 GMT
I've wondered at this myself and think it may be a case of EA giving them the rope hoping they'll hang themselves. Whether it's to shut 'em down or just replace the leadership remains to be seen. There's a lot of activism getting shoved into these games nowadays (DAV appears yet another) and it's hurting the bottom line. One thing we know about EA (well all corporations) is they like money and are beholden to their shareholders. I strongly suspect this as well. The problem with that is that it seems unlikely the shareholders would approve of this plan to eventually shut them down or replace the leadership…because they’d be losing money. Wouldn’t it make more sense for them to just go along with the second iteration of the game and trying to contain the losses in that scenario? Even shutting BioWare right away would’ve made more sense, to me personally, then to approve a shift that would add years of cost if it wasn’t a decision that came from the high. But I coudo very well be wrong. One noteworthy thing to consider is that in the financial report EA stated Veilguard’s preorders sales matched their expectations, which would mean that they’re currently on pace on matching the sales’ expectations EA set of the game. Those expectations could very well be low, but that might mean BioWare could have an easier time in making the target set sales wise. I think there's a lot that goes into the calculous of these decisions...bad press associated with laying off however many people Bioware employs (or just the people at the top). You get lawsuits and claims by former employees of EA being anti-diversity...crap like that. If you give them that "rope" that provides you the rationale to "downsize" or even close it down it makes it easier when you can cite recent failure(s). I actually don't think it's going to be a major failure...I think it'll do marginally well. But if you invest 100M over 7-8 years (or whatever) EA is looking for better than above average. I'm predicting 2-3M copies in the first month (with no real level of confidence in my estimate). But hey, who really knows. It could end up being marginal and EA still goes forward with ME-next. I think Bioware games do benefit EA's month subscription service...so that's an aspect to consider.
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Post by helios969 on Oct 24, 2024 10:19:17 GMT
That sounds like very poor management from EA as well. Yep, I agree wholly. At least from my limited outside perspective there seems to be a lack of oversight...probably also a general lack of awareness of the fanbase of either franchise in which they would not even be aware if Bioware were about to alienate those most ready to drop 60-70$.
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Post by Ieldra on Oct 24, 2024 13:02:48 GMT
Like how do you make a medieval fantasy game and NOT HAVE FUCKING GREATSWORDS?! Because nobody at Bioware wants to make such a game and they didn't.
The bane of present-day storytelling in our cultural sphere, not just in games, is that almost everyone in the corporate entertainment complex is obsessed with the same present-day issues to the point that they can think about nothing else and it shapes everything they do, which, among other things, results in something called "presentism", an inability or unwillingness to consider a historical period (or in this case, a secondary world) on its own terms. Unwilling to accept the secondary world's limitations and unable to see its potential for their storytelling, they are slowly turning every secondary world into a copy of present-day urban North America. The aesthetic, the language, the stories, the demographics. Nothing is authentic to the original secondary worlds any more.
Take Rings of Power. They tried to subvert the nature of evil, which is literally baked into the nature of the universe from the first chapter of the chronologically first story told about that world. You don't have to like it, you don't have to think, as Tolkien did, that it is metaphorically applicable to the real world, and you don't have to use it, but if you want to write stories in that world, you better damn well accept that it is true for that world, else you'll destroy its foundations.
You call out the people screeching on the internet. I say if you want your greatswords back, you and them are allies. As possessed by rage demons as they might appear, I say they have a point. For what they are raging against are people so permeated with pride they would destroy worlds for their ambitions and recreate them in their own image.
End of rant.
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Post by akrabra on Oct 24, 2024 13:46:34 GMT
There are no greatswords In the game?
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Post by Reznore on Oct 24, 2024 13:52:01 GMT
There are no greatswords In the game? I saw hammer and axe so ? I'm not sure.
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Post by fenalaslavellan on Oct 24, 2024 13:53:46 GMT
Another interesting take following the Neon Knight video mentioned above. Dear god, this is so good, lol. Guardians of the Galaxy, yep that's it. And this is no slander to that game which I loved to death but when I was playing it in 2022 you bet your ass I wasn't going to believe someone saying that DA4 was going to be similar to it, even in the slightest. Can't believe this will be the tone in Tevinter of all places. The combat being very 2018 God of War like was clear to me as soon as that old ass leak surfaced back in the day.
It's amazing how Dragon Age managed to lose me after 14 years, but I'm actually glad because they inspired me to go back to Morrowind which has everything most RPGs lack these days, and more.
Still hoping for the bare minimum when I play Veilguard, which is someone acknowledging that my Rook is a Qunari and that I'll be able to kill Solas.
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Gui meɖi naneke o, gake ŋudͻwͻnu le eŋu
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by rekkampum on Oct 24, 2024 13:55:47 GMT
There are no greatswords In the game? Slayers use two-handed weapons according to what we know so far, so most likely, yes, there are most likely going to be greatswords in-game. Can folks at least wait before jumping the gun? I mean the game hasn't even released and the rumors are flying wild as if they're hardcore fact.
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Post by themikefest on Oct 24, 2024 13:55:50 GMT
No greatswords? I shouldn't be surprised. There's no companion control mechanic. A reduction in the number of companions taken on a quest. No romances outside of the companions. Only a few choices carried over from DAI. I wonder what more is removed/reduced as I play the game.
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Post by Reznore on Oct 24, 2024 13:57:30 GMT
No greatswords? I shouldn't be surprised. There's no companion control mechanic. A reduction in the number of companions taken on a quest. No romances outside of the companions. Only a few choices carried over from DAI. I wonder what more is removed/reduced as I play the game. Don't expect big cities either. We never got some in DA and we aren't going to in DATV. We go to big cities but only visit small part of those ofc.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by The Elder King on Oct 24, 2024 14:05:45 GMT
Another interesting take following the Neon Knight video mentioned above. Still hoping for the bare minimum when I play Veilguard, which is someone acknowledging that my Rook is a Qunari and that I'll be able to kill Solas.
From dialogues shown about elves, it seems there'll be quite a few instance where the race and faction of Rook will be recognized. I think that part is probably going to be stronger then in previous games. No greatswords? I shouldn't be surprised. There's no companion control mechanic. A reduction in the number of companions taken on a quest. No romances outside of the companions. Only a few choices carried over from DAI. I wonder what more is removed/reduced as I play the game. I think it's fair to be disappointed about the lack of non-romance companions, but I wouldn't really consider it a reduction like the other mechanics. We simply don't have non-companions with the same role and presence of companions, like we didn't in DAO and DA2, compared to Inquisition. No greatswords? I shouldn't be surprised. There's no companion control mechanic. A reduction in the number of companions taken on a quest. No romances outside of the companions. Only a few choices carried over from DAI. I wonder what more is removed/reduced as I play the game. Don't expect big cities either. We never got some in DA and we aren't going to in DATV. We go to big cities but only visit small part of those ofc. Some previews were quite positive about Treviso. I'd say this is something Bioware could only go upwards from Inquisition and the franchise overall, but it could still remain in mediocrity.
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Post by Reznore on Oct 24, 2024 14:08:35 GMT
Still hoping for the bare minimum when I play Veilguard, which is someone acknowledging that my Rook is a Qunari and that I'll be able to kill Solas.
From dialogues shown about elves, it seems there'll be quite a few instance where the race and faction of Rook will be recognized. I think that part is probably going to be stronger then in previous games. No greatswords? I shouldn't be surprised. There's no companion control mechanic. A reduction in the number of companions taken on a quest. No romances outside of the companions. Only a few choices carried over from DAI. I wonder what more is removed/reduced as I play the game. I think it's fair to be disappointed about the lack of non-romance companions, but I wouldn't really consider it a reduction like the other mechanics. We simply don't have non-companions with the same role and presence of companions, like we didn't in DAO and DA2, compared to Inquisition. Don't expect big cities either. We never got some in DA and we aren't going to in DATV. We go to big cities but only visit small part of those ofc. Some previews were quite positive about Treviso. I'd say this is something Bioware could only go upwards from Inquisition and the franchise overall, but it could still remain in mediocrity. It's mostly corridor and background decor. It looks great but don't expect to explore much or have a bar or a true city.
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Post by kotoreffect3 on Oct 24, 2024 14:11:33 GMT
There had better be some greatswords in the game. Playing as a 2h warrior is my thing and I need the option to lop off heads with a claymore.
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Post by fenalaslavellan on Oct 24, 2024 14:44:28 GMT
From dialogues shown about elves, it seems there'll be quite a few instance where the race and faction of Rook will be recognized. I think that part is probably going to be stronger then in previous games. I think it's fair to be disappointed about the lack of non-romance companions, but I wouldn't really consider it a reduction like the other mechanics. We simply don't have non-companions with the same role and presence of companions, like we didn't in DAO and DA2, compared to Inquisition. Some previews were quite positive about Treviso. I'd say this is something Bioware could only go upwards from Inquisition and the franchise overall, but it could still remain in mediocrity. It's mostly corridor and background decor. It looks great but don't expect to explore much or have a bar or a true city. You would expect that exploring Minrathous and Treviso would be like exploring Vivec City or something, guess not.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 19631
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Post by The Elder King on Oct 24, 2024 14:55:17 GMT
From dialogues shown about elves, it seems there'll be quite a few instance where the race and faction of Rook will be recognized. I think that part is probably going to be stronger then in previous games. I think it's fair to be disappointed about the lack of non-romance companions, but I wouldn't really consider it a reduction like the other mechanics. We simply don't have non-companions with the same role and presence of companions, like we didn't in DAO and DA2, compared to Inquisition. Some previews were quite positive about Treviso. I'd say this is something Bioware could only go upwards from Inquisition and the franchise overall, but it could still remain in mediocrity. It's mostly corridor and background decor. It looks great but don't expect to explore much or have a bar or a true city. I'm not going to set up too much expectations in regards of city building in a Bioware game, especially considering Val Rouyeaux, but I guess there have been previews with negative comments about it, with clear cut statements about not having a bar/tavern?
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emissaryoflies
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire
Posts: 151 Likes: 428
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emissaryoflies
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire
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Post by emissaryoflies on Oct 24, 2024 15:15:10 GMT
Why exactly do we believe there won't be greatswords or bars and taverns? Genuinely curious.
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Kappa Neko
...lives for biotic explosions. And cheesecake!
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Kappa Neko on Oct 24, 2024 15:22:25 GMT
Big cities would be nice but I don't expect this. The size of Kirkwall was already OK for me. Baldur's Gate has the perfect size for an RPG. Lots to discover but not actually THAT big. A BioWare game has to have great storytelling and characters and banter. The size of the map(s) doesn't matter to me. With DAI the issue was that the maps were big but the cities a joke. If DAV can simulate a big city like they did with the Citadel in ME1, that's perfectly fine. I don't need to be able to go everywhere, I just need to feel like there's s huge metropolis around me.
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Post by Ieldra on Oct 24, 2024 15:42:14 GMT
Why exactly do we believe there won't be greatswords or bars and taverns? Genuinely curious. kingmandu hinted above that there are probably no greatswords, but didn't give any source. I probably blew that aspect up out of proportion when replying to him quoting only that line. Sorry about that, but there was a point I wanted to make and "lacking greatswords" would be a symptom of that point. Could've used something else, but it was convenient.
Short answer: we don't know if there will be greatswords in the game.
But it is curious that we didn't see any in the footage.
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fistoffiori
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
XBL Gamertag: F10R1
PSN: FistOfFiori
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fistoffiori
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by fistoffiori on Oct 24, 2024 16:11:54 GMT
Why exactly do we believe there won't be greatswords or bars and taverns? Genuinely curious. There's definitely Taverns and Tavern songs in the game, we know that. Source: There's the below pic from Bioware and Corinne Busche said Tavern songs are in (from one of the Q&As they did on Discord)
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