Classes in Dragon Age 4

*looks out window to see pink and purple sunset*

"What the fuck is this My Little Pony bullshit?!"

None of that means that there are tectonic plates. Descent explicitly tells us that the earth is made of sentient rock monsters.

You're complaining about abilities not being realistic, based on an understanding of Earth science that does not apply to the fictional world of Thedas.

Can you please clarify what you mean by this. As to me it reads like you are saying because John McClain isn't realistic in die hard it would be cool for Superman to show up in die hard 6. I don't think that is what you are getting at but that is how I am reading it.

Recent playthrough has made me decide that I want all-classes-can-wield-all-weapons because I really wanted to make my character an archer with the Templar specialization but I couldn't because only rogues can use bows and only warriors can learn the templar specialization. Had a moment where I legit forgot and was really disappointed when I remembered a second later. 

It's "how things work" in Thedas as well. We've seen that there's lava beneath the earth, we've seen that there are enormous tunnel systems all underneath the continent, and we know that gravity obviously exists. Ergo, the process I'm describing is how those three things must logically interact. 

The ability specifies that "flames erupt from the fissure left by Earthshaking Strike". Not from the Warrior, not from the weapon, from the fissure. You're welcome to headcanon your own ridiculous theories for why fire may erupt from the ground that have nothing to do with the fire under the ground, but I'll stick to my blather about the things we actually know about, thank you, and call it a dumbass ability totally inconsistent with the worldbuilding and power levels of mortal player characters. 

It's kind of hilarious that you're too virtuous to discuss whether a change in the nature of the world must inherently be considered genocide, but this idiotic point is the hill you're ready to die on.

Well, I'm going to chime in here...

I can see the traditional classes remaining, because it's a staple of the series.
But I do prefer the "specialization" as defined here, because in my humble opinion it makes the most sense from a "realism/logic" sense while still leaving plenty of room for plot-based-powers.

A generic example:
POWER A: Hit an enemy for extra damage
POWER B: Reduce damage taken at a penalty to movement speed

The above is something that could apply to everyone.
But your "specialization" could be:
POWER A (Mage): Hit an enemy for extra damage, applies the "Weakened" state, which reduces enemy damage
POWER A (Warrior): Hit...damage, applies the "Stunned" state, which halts enemy movement
POWER A (Rogue): Hit...damage, applies the "Bleeding" state, which deals DOT.

So as defined, there's the core moves that apply to humanoids, then there's the extra options whose availability is dependent on the traditional class, and THEN there's the possibility for character-unique abilities that are either super-charged versions of existing moves or completely singular to the character.

Such as:
POWER A (Protagonist): Hit...damage, applies the "Sworn Enemy" debuff, which turns the next hit on this enemy into a critical hit.
or
POWER A (Protagonist): Hit...damage, applies the "Clash of Heroes" buff, which increases the armor of the main character and his/her companions for a short time.

Just some illustrative examples.

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But if I'm being skeptical, I think the likelihood is the usual trifecta of classes we've seen, with various plot-conducive powers based on the story.

Well for example the dwarves, the people who know the most about the earth and things like earthquakes, talk about how the ones in Descent are different. If every earthquake was caused by Titans and every part of the planet made of them, they would not have been undiscovered by now. Even in Descent they talk about how the Titans were the shapers of earth, meaning there is earth besides them. 

Another question about classes is whether the companions would have the same skill trees as the PC? I haven't played MEA so don't know the details, but Ryder can access any skill tree yes? Do the companions also have that option or are they still restricted to more traditional classes?

I wouldn't mind if DA4 PC has access to all skill trees but I think it would be best to still keep NPCs within some limitations.

I also haven't played POE2 but I've read that when recruiting companions we can choose their class. So one NPC defaults to a wizard but could also be a wizard/thief or a wizard/fighter. That could help make sense of some of these quasi-magical fighter effects being discussed. Iron Bull had slight access to the Fade and unknowingly used that to create fire out of the earth.

Ultimately I want the things in my first paragraph and hey if classless can give them to me and still respect the lore (by having you have to pick a mage background to gain access to mage ability trees) and not end up with limited abilities that all feel a bit samey then I’m good with that or any other system.

*They could further limit/balance things in a multiclass or a classless system, if necessary, with

• A level cap, or
• Purchase requirements for abilities beyond having a point to spend and being up to it in the tree (eg. In DAO the Talent Death Blow required you to be level 12 and have strength 25), or
• rather then giving all the abilities/tree they might give you a curated selection or allow you to choose which trees you get so you have the same number as a regular class.

I’m no game developer *shrug*

I don't know. The dwarves already have a lot going for them. They're already resistant to magic and have the most advanced military technology, the monopoly on Lyrium and the most martial culture. I feel like if they start having mages as well - hairsplitting aside - then it gets really implausible if they don't just go on to exterminate the Darkspawn and reclaim their entire empire over a decade or so.

In my mind, dwarves are the quintessentially practical race who appreciate common sense, hard work, skill and good craftsmanship. Remember how Dagna confused everyone because she's a dwarf who actually gives a shit about magic beyond the lucrative lyrium export? If they start developing their own magic then they're pretty much just humans 2.0.

And the choice between Warrior and Rogue feels like it means a lot more for dwarves than it does for humans or elves, because it's so much more indicative of their positions and responsibilities in dwarven society. To me they were never deprived of a class compared to the others, instead they were given more definition by having endured for thousands of years being complete badasses, essentially defending the gates to Hell while the other races collectively had their panties in a twist over magic and mages and what to do with them. 

I'm certainly looking forward to playing a completely nonmagical dwarf who's ready to test whether Tevinter Magisters and uppity elven revolutionaries can still cast spells with their throats slit ear to ear. 



"That's a stretch."

There's no particular reason to believe that Thedas' Earth is made up entirely of Titans just because we've seen one and it was having an effect on the surrounding earth, and even if that was the case it wouldn't make that ridiculous Warrior ability any less ridiculous or contrary to the story.

Oh, I love this argument. "OMG, the story has dragons in it! Why would you assume that the humans have noses or teeth in their mouths or take shits when the characters' teeth have never been described and they're never shown visiting the bushes?! It's fantasy! You can't expect anything! Just sit down, pop your brain out, and enjoy whatever it offers! Unless someone somewhere thinks it vaguely implies something they disagrees with politically, of course. Then the content is obviously evil and you're evil too for liking it." 

Again though, we've seen enough of Thedas' underground to know for a fact that they have underground lava rivers. That's the sort of thing you can, say, base an assumption that Thedas' underground lava is being referenced on. Making such an assumption... not baseless!  Whereas nobody has ever expressed or implied anything to the effect of "The earth must be made entirely out of Titans!". Making such an assumption actually baseless. In addition to being irrelevant to the discussion.

Which isn't to say that you can't have a great time speculating about Thedas' Earth potentially being made entirely out of Titans. It's an intriguing thought. You just can't try to use that idea as a defense for something in the games. Certainly not while accusing others of making unsupported assumptions.