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Post by SirSourpuss on Apr 24, 2021 19:05:17 GMT
Got it. I’m not sure if he lied to you, or was arrogant enough to believe what he said, but he was clearly wrong. The conversation took place in December of 2011, so they had roughly a month and a half to go gold. If he was that unaware of what was going on, then that speaks volume for Bioware's dev team.
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Post by themikefest on Apr 24, 2021 19:32:08 GMT
I personally blame more EA in regards of the short development times for DA2 and ME3, but it’s fine if you disagree. I do to. But I had spoken to a ME3 dev at the time, who told me that 18 months was plenty of time to develop ME3. Which was a flat out lie. Plenty of time to develop the game, yes, but not enough time to do want they originally wanted to do. Link.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Apr 24, 2021 19:41:19 GMT
I do to. But I had spoken to a ME3 dev at the time, who told me that 18 months was plenty of time to develop ME3. Which was a flat out lie. Plenty of time to develop the game, yes, but not enough time to do want they originally wanted to do. Link. While it proves that you can make a game in 18 months, it also proves the point that you shouldn't. How does it go? Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. I could fuck a cactus, but I am really regretting the rectal bleeding right now.
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Post by ahglock on Apr 24, 2021 21:16:43 GMT
They didn't need a full remake, they did need to change the last 10 minutes. The last 10 minutes almost entirely destroyed their franchise. There are flaws with the rest of it, but people were willing to look past those. It was the ending that broke them. People may have toned down reactions this time, because going into it they know its a shit ending. But they aren't going to suddenly get and appreciate the artists vision, because it was a shit vision, it still is a shit vision, will always be a shit vision. I didn’t mean that they needed to make a full remake (although there’s no way they’d have redone just the last 10 minutes of the game). The reasoning behind a remake isn’t to fix the endings or the parts of the game/s that didn’t work, in any case. I agree with you that, despite the flaws in the game, the endings are the main problems for most people criticizing ME3 (and I personally think this logic is flawed, because it leads to overlooks several major problems that the game had), but the thing is that EA/BioWare might not share your view of the endings being ‘a shit vision’. Or, at least, they don’t think they’re so flawed that they would cause another huge negative outburst as they did in 2012, with the EC being included. The thing is everything has flaws, the greatest game, book, movie etc will have flaws. But you always have to stick the landing. We like to look back and nitpick but at the time, the almost universal refrain was it was a great game but the ending sucked so bad it wrecked it. And if the people at bioware have not accepted that the ending was absolutely terrible on every level, they minds as well give up making games. The only reason the outburst wont be as big is 90% of the people who buy the game already experienced it, the remaining 10% are prepared for it going in.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2021 21:16:54 GMT
I do to. But I had spoken to a ME3 dev at the time, who told me that 18 months was plenty of time to develop ME3. Which was a flat out lie. Plenty of time to develop the game, yes, but not enough time to do want they originally wanted to do. Link. Oh, The Final Hours of ME3...the shadow of what could've been. I do hope someday that people would restore this original vision, with Javik central to the game.
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Post by colfoley on Apr 24, 2021 22:07:41 GMT
Plenty of time to develop the game, yes, but not enough time to do want they originally wanted to do. Link. Oh, The Final Hours of ME3...the shadow of what could've been. I do hope someday that people would restore this original vision, with Javik central to the game. Was that really what they were going to do in the initial version of ME 3? *J Jonah Jameson laugh.gif* THank God we got what we got.
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Post by bshep on Apr 24, 2021 22:34:45 GMT
The thing is everything has flaws, the greatest game, book, movie etc will have flaws. But you always have to stick the landing. We like to look back and nitpick but at the time, the almost universal refrain was it was a great game but the ending sucked so bad it wrecked it. And if the people at bioware have not accepted that the ending was absolutely terrible on every level, they minds as well give up making games. The only reason the outburst wont be as big is 90% of the people who buy the game already experienced it, the remaining 10% are prepared for it going in. Also drop the hyperbole. Just a very small minority of people who play games actually bother to post about it online and a even smaller one disliked the ending, so this "90%" you pulled is utter nonsense.
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Post by bshep on Apr 24, 2021 22:38:26 GMT
Oh, The Final Hours of ME3...the shadow of what could've been. I do hope someday that people would restore this original vision, with Javik central to the game. Was that really what they were going to do in the initial version of ME 3? *J Jonah Jameson laugh.gif* THank God we got what we got. "The grass is always greener on the other side"...
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Post by themikefest on Apr 24, 2021 22:39:37 GMT
Oh, The Final Hours of ME3...the shadow of what could've been. I do hope someday that people would restore this original vision, with Javik central to the game. Was that really what they were going to do in the initial version of ME 3? *J Jonah Jameson laugh.gif* THank God we got what we got. I would prefer what they were going to do. It makes more sense having Thessia before the coup.
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Post by The Elder King on Apr 24, 2021 23:32:14 GMT
Oh, The Final Hours of ME3...the shadow of what could've been. I do hope someday that people would restore this original vision, with Javik central to the game. Was that really what they were going to do in the initial version of ME 3? *J Jonah Jameson laugh.gif* THank God we got what we got. Some things are meh. The idea behind Javik's central role and the coup being after Thessia is better then what we got in the released game, in my opinion.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Apr 25, 2021 0:48:25 GMT
Also drop the hyperbole. Just a very small minority of people who play games actually bother to post about it online and a even smaller one disliked the ending, so this "90%" you pulled is utter nonsense. So you're saying that everyone absolutely loved the original ending, nobody complained and everything that happened was a figment of our imagination? Or are you saying that it was only a tiny minority that argued against the endings and all the people that did like it just remained silent? Personally, it looks to me like most people, the vast majority of people, didn't like the endings, but instead of speaking up, simply watched from the sidelines, to see how it would evolve. Because even today, when I speak to people that just got into the franchise, the answer I get is that the endings were terrible, the game was simply OK and we were all idiots for thinking that Bioware could do better. Which is high praise, right?
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Post by ahglock on Apr 25, 2021 2:15:11 GMT
The thing is everything has flaws, the greatest game, book, movie etc will have flaws. But you always have to stick the landing. We like to look back and nitpick but at the time, the almost universal refrain was it was a great game but the ending sucked so bad it wrecked it. And if the people at bioware have not accepted that the ending was absolutely terrible on every level, they minds as well give up making games. The only reason the outburst wont be as big is 90% of the people who buy the game already experienced it, the remaining 10% are prepared for it going in. Also drop the hyperbole. Just a very small minority of people who play games actually bother to post about it online and a even smaller one disliked the ending, so this "90%" you pulled is utter nonsense. I'd say I was playing it safe with those comments. The endings were worse than that for the franchise.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2021 2:51:49 GMT
Ah, yes, the "minority disliked the ending" fake news of 2012, brought back in 2021.
Because, 4K, Duh.
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Post by mtheillusive on Apr 25, 2021 3:20:16 GMT
Well, the endings didn't bother me (partially because I played 3 first, that was my first ME experience, and got all the DLC soon after, and Levianthan made it make more sense), certainly not to the point as other people online. And I never spoke about it for years. All the way back since 2012. And still play all three games till this day, gladly. All the way till the end. So....it's certainly possible... Well this should be fun
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Post by Sanunes on Apr 25, 2021 6:02:53 GMT
Ah, yes, the "minority disliked the ending" fake news of 2012, brought back in 2021. Because, 4K, Duh. Actually the majority didn't even beat the game I bet. Just like the majority of video games on the market for the last time I checked BioWare has an unusually high completion rate for normally its between 20% and 25% where BioWare is normally around 40%.
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Post by azarhal on Apr 25, 2021 11:38:07 GMT
Ah, yes, the "minority disliked the ending" fake news of 2012, brought back in 2021. Because, 4K, Duh. Actually the majority didn't even beat the game I bet. Just like the majority of video games on the market for the last time I checked BioWare has an unusually high completion rate for normally its between 20% and 25% where BioWare is normally around 40%. Only for the Mass Effect Trilogy, under 30% for the others and ME2 has the highest completion rate of the 3, then ME3 I believe.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Apr 25, 2021 11:41:25 GMT
Actually the majority didn't even beat the game I bet. Just like the majority of video games on the market for the last time I checked BioWare has an unusually high completion rate for normally its between 20% and 25% where BioWare is normally around 40%. That's a great endorsement. "ME3 is a great game, as long as you don't plan to finish it". That's not an excuse and it most likely put off a lot of people from actually finishing the game, regardless. There's no getting around that it was a bad ending and it hurt the company a lot.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Apr 25, 2021 12:33:14 GMT
They didn't need a full remake, they did need to change the last 10 minutes. The last 10 minutes almost entirely destroyed their franchise. There are flaws with the rest of it, but people were willing to look past those. It was the ending that broke them. People may have toned down reactions this time, because going into it they know its a shit ending. But they aren't going to suddenly get and appreciate the artists vision, because it was a shit vision, it still is a shit vision, will always be a shit vision. This is my thinking on this as well. Regardless of the narrative people might want to spin on the game several years later, for the most part, fans seem to generally look back on the bulk of Mass Effect 3 prior to Priority: Earth rather fondly. Mass Effect 2 has numerous narrative failings throughout that I feel are just as bad, and in some cases I feel a smidge worse, but the Suicide Mission is so beloved that this game is heralded as being gaming perfection by some. If the ending was on par with the impressions people got of ME2’s conclusion, or even ME1, I’m sure the collective tune people are singing would be very different.
You mean Mass Effect fans be consistent in their thoughts and ideas? What is next the sun rises from the north and cats swim like fish?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2021 15:49:47 GMT
This back and forth does raise an interesting question that has already been asked and discussed but it is ringing in my ears right now so I'm rehashing it.
Is the target audience for this game, people who have already played these games? Or is it to attract new people to the franchise?
If the latter, it is no coincidence that 2012 and 2021 are the same numbers transposed. There will be people that, despite having the EC as base game, will feel that the endings are forced/lack real choice/disappointing.
I look forward to whether this conversation takes place or not. This game could be a major mistake.
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Post by ahglock on Apr 25, 2021 15:57:48 GMT
Well, the endings didn't bother me (partially because I played 3 first, that was my first ME experience, and got all the DLC soon after, and Levianthan made it make more sense), certainly not to the point as other people online. And I never spoke about it for years. All the way back since 2012. And still play all three games till this day, gladly. All the way till the end. So....it's certainly possible... Well this should be fun So that is what they meant by Mass Effect 3 is the best place to start the series, because if you start there you wont appreciate how horrifically bad the endings are.
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Post by azarhal on Apr 25, 2021 16:35:51 GMT
Is the target audience for this game, people who have already played these games? Or is it to attract new people to the franchise? In this case, I'll say both, as more Mass Effect games are planned and lots of old fans have been asking for a remaster for years. I have seen people who claims to have never played MET say that they will buy MELE around the web. The idea that only "old fans" are going to buy it is erroneous.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2021 16:43:24 GMT
Is the target audience for this game, people who have already played these games? Or is it to attract new people to the franchise? In this case, I'll say both, as more Mass Effect games are planned and lots of old fans have been asking for a remaster for years. I have seen people who claims to have never played MET say that they will buy MELE around the web. The idea that only "old fans" are going to buy it is erroneous. Yes, this is sensible. This is why I feel not addressing the endings in any way beyond the EC is a mistake and may bite them. They are trying to build the franchise back up and attract new players, not reignite old controversies. I don't really believe the saying that all press is good press. Especially if it's old news 2.0.
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 25, 2021 17:42:39 GMT
Well, the endings didn't bother me (partially because I played 3 first, that was my first ME experience, and got all the DLC soon after, and Levianthan made it make more sense), certainly not to the point as other people online. And I never spoke about it for years. All the way back since 2012. And still play all three games till this day, gladly. All the way till the end. So....it's certainly possible... Well this should be fun So that is what they meant by Mass Effect 3 is the best place to start the series, because if you start there you wont appreciate how horrifically bad the endings are. I feel like some people must have been horribly confused lol. Like.....what the hell is going on? That’s it?
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Apr 25, 2021 17:50:55 GMT
This back and forth does raise an interesting question that has already been asked and discussed but it is ringing in my ears right now so I'm rehashing it. Is the target audience for this game, people who have already played these games? Or is it to attract new people to the franchise? Both. They have a core group that wants an updated version and the new version that is now playable on last and new gen consoles opens up the ability for new players who's first system was a PS4/One console.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Apr 25, 2021 18:47:22 GMT
Is the target audience for this game, people who have already played these games? Or is it to attract new people to the franchise? In this case, I'll say both, as more Mass Effect games are planned and lots of old fans have been asking for a remaster for years. I have seen people who claims to have never played MET say that they will buy MELE around the web. The idea that only "old fans" are going to buy it is erroneous. Of course it isn't only for "old fans" and of course there will be new fans to buy these. But I sincerely doubt that the new fans will outnumber the old fans and I doubt the new fans will be people that will buy this, at best, 2012 looking game, in 2021, just because it is 3 games for $70. Even out of those that will buy it, there will be a lot of people that simply won't play them the whole way through and even out of those, the ratio of dissatisfied to satisfied will be about the same as it was in 2012, the only difference is that nobody is invested in the franchise. I've spoken with people getting into the franchise, after the fact. Most people feel the same emptiness, more or less, as we communicated back in 2012, once completing the trilogy and the ones that went in expecting a complete shitshow say that, while ME3 dropped the ball, if you went in expecting a total mess is OK, but anyone expecting to get something better, from Bioware of all devs, was a fool to begin with.
In other words, it doesn't put a vote of confidence in Bioware, nor does it really help generate new fans. You will get some, but I doubt it will be a viable percentage to build upon in the future. It won't magically generate an entire new generation of fans. No remaster, so far, has actually managed to do that. For that, you need new content and since the Trilogy is over and done with and Bioware no longer wants anything to do with it, there's nothing they can capitalize with it in the future. Shepard's not coming back, Wrex' not coming back, nor is Garrus, nor Tali. And you can't bank on nostalgia with just Liara. You can't have middle aged Liara carry the franchise for you, going forward.
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