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Post by The Elder King on Dec 3, 2020 23:47:51 GMT
Well, I do hope you’re right. I can’t help to be a bit worried. I guess in a year’s timeframe we might know the answer, given that more info on the game *should* come out. I am to... but this whole "EA bad" nonsense isn't the reason. I am the first to say that Bioware’s struggles in recent years aren’t (entirely) due to EA. Howewer, in regards of live service game, I’d say that EA clearly pushed/is pushing for an expansion of those, with little concerns about SP content with one exception, SW: the Fallen Order. In any case, we’ll have to wait and see, how all of this affects BioWare in the future.
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Post by biggydx on Dec 3, 2020 23:51:36 GMT
Do you think they are up to join Mike at his new Québec city studio? Although, Hudson has already looked outside the gaming industry and might to do so again. Going from Mike's reaction on twitter to it, I don't think they are. But I wouldn't be surprised if either David Gaider or Mike Laidlaw pick them up. There's also Amazon Game Studios which have a couple of Bioware vets as well, if I recall and then there's that WotC studio that made Sword Coast Legends that also has a few Bioware vets. I don't know how those studios are doing, though. I don't think Mark and Casey will be left alone for long, or they are into a business venture together. I think what we tend to forget in a lot of these departures, is that some of these lead devs want to go back to actually working "in the weeds" when it comes to developing a game. Overseeing development likely grew old for them, and there's some chance they opined for a time in which they were working in the small office building things up from scratch.
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Post by linksocarina on Dec 3, 2020 23:58:55 GMT
Current Bioware's RPG vision doesn't match old Bioware's RPG vision. As I've said, these decisions have already been made and the goal of the game has been finalized. DA4 is going down a predetermined path, at this point. Expect little deviation in game mechanics. How would you describe the differences between those two visions? I mean, ive seen that since Dragon Age 2 to be fair. Origins was kind of the last "old school" game they did. The new form would likely be closer to Inquisition/Andromeda, is how I would show examples to it.
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Post by abedsbrother on Dec 4, 2020 0:07:33 GMT
How would you describe the differences between those two visions? I mean, ive seen that since Dragon Age 2 to be fair. Origins was kind of the last "old school" game they did. The new form would likely be closer to Inquisition/Andromeda, is how I would show examples to it. I would describe it as "BioWare wants to make games. EA wants to make money." EA's biggest problem is that they didn't see the value of BioWare as a "halo" studio - which would have been the perfect compromise between the two positions.
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Post by linksocarina on Dec 4, 2020 0:08:51 GMT
I mean, ive seen that since Dragon Age 2 to be fair. Origins was kind of the last "old school" game they did. The new form would likely be closer to Inquisition/Andromeda, is how I would show examples to it. I would describe it as "BioWare wants to make games. EA wants to make money." EA's biggest problem is that they didn't see the value of BioWare as a "halo" studio - which would have been the perfect compromise between the two positions. Perhaps, though I would suspect it's a bit more complicated than that at this point. BioWare is not at that point...though the caveat is not like that yet. With these departures, it did take a step closer to that, IMO.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Dec 4, 2020 0:11:30 GMT
How would you describe the differences between those two visions? The push wasn't against live service, but rather control over Bioware. There's been a restructuring. An overhaul, if you will, in the entire creative process behind Bioware's game development pipeline. I don't like how this change influences the final product that comes out of that process and I am not talking about the MTX part. That is a battle long lost and it isn't Bioware specific. I don't have something to show you, because there's nothing made, under that procedure. You'll see some results with Anthem Next. I expect a lot of streamlining with very little branching in narration, but, as of yet, I have little to nothing to base it on. I'd put it in more Naughty Dog territory. And don't get me wrong, Naughty Dog have made some great games, with the Uncharted series and TLoU ... 1. But in comparison to what Bioware offered, it pales in comparison for me. And, mind you, this is merely the direction I expect EA to have Bioware go. Again, I don't know to what extent the concessions being made will mirror this. Maybe I am wrong. But the "Bioware Experience" mantra, I expect it to die with DA4 and even there, I expect to see a significant downgrade to character personalization. Again, maybe I am wrong, that is just what I expect to see. As for the departure, yes, there was some creative differences and that had a lot to do with the scope Casey had for Bioware and what EA wanted, but it wasn't about MTX. That was something Bioware had wavered since the ME3MP. EA wants to target larger audiences and they think the old "Bioware Experience" is a drawback at this point.
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Post by Absafraginlootly on Dec 4, 2020 0:17:37 GMT
I'd say this thread is a pretty good example of why marketing had them delay the announcement of their departure until just before dragon age day.
They're probably counting on the hype resulting from biowares Dragon Age Day stream washing away the anxiety and over reactions people have to people moving on from a job in this industry.
Hopefully that means we're getting something good, a teaser? A title announcement?
Might introduce this new guy whose in charge of dragon age to us too, that would probably be sensible of them.
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Post by abedsbrother on Dec 4, 2020 0:17:44 GMT
How would you describe the differences between those two visions? The push wasn't against live service, but rather control over Bioware. There's been a restructuring. An overhaul, if you will, in the entire creative process behind Bioware's game development pipeline. Tbf though, from EA's perspective, something had to happen. 5 years and MEA disappoints. How long did Anthem have? 5 years as well? And that was a train-wreck. If I'm EA, I'm absolutely demanding some changes. But unfortunately the changes EA knows how to make are the sort of changes that will turn BioWare into another Maxis. (fwiw I'd love to be wrong.)
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Post by linksocarina on Dec 4, 2020 0:20:01 GMT
The push wasn't against live service, but rather control over Bioware. There's been a restructuring. An overhaul, if you will, in the entire creative process behind Bioware's game development pipeline. Tbf though, from EA's perspective, something had to happen. 5 years and MEA disappoints. How long did Anthem have? 5 years as well? And that was a train-wreck. If I'm EA, I'm absolutely demanding some changes. But unfortunately the changes EA knows how to make are the sort of changes that will turn BioWare into another Maxis. (fwiw I'd love to be wrong.) Less Maxis, more Visceral, I suspect. At least, in terms of products and studio vision.
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The Elder King
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Post by The Elder King on Dec 4, 2020 0:20:49 GMT
Tbf though, from EA's perspective, something had to happen. 5 years and MEA disappoints. How long did Anthem have? 5 years as well? And that was a train-wreck. If I'm EA, I'm absolutely demanding some changes. But unfortunately the changes EA knows how to make are the sort of changes that will turn BioWare into another Maxis. (fwiw I'd love to be wrong.) Less Maxis, more Visceral, I suspect. Well, it doesn't bode well in either cases.
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Post by necrowaif on Dec 4, 2020 0:22:33 GMT
I'd say this thread is a pretty good example of why marketing had them delay the announcement of their departure until just before dragon age day. They're probably counting on the hype resulting from biowares Dragon Age Day stream washing away the anxiety and over reactions people have to people moving on from a job in this industry. Hopefully that means we're getting something good, a teaser? A title announcement? Might introduce this new guy whose in charge of dragon age to us too, that would probably be sensible of them. The timing does seem rather odd, doesn't it? I think you're onto something here.
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The Elder King
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Post by The Elder King on Dec 4, 2020 0:24:46 GMT
I'd say this thread is a pretty good example of why marketing had them delay the announcement of their departure until just before dragon age day. They're probably counting on the hype resulting from biowares Dragon Age Day stream washing away the anxiety and over reactions people have to people moving on from a job in this industry. Hopefully that means we're getting something good, a teaser? A title announcement? Might introduce this new guy whose in charge of dragon age to us too, that would probably be sensible of them. Given those depatures, yes, I'd hope they planned somethign to counter the negativity and anxiety. I mean, those type of departures could generate worry in any case, but in the case of Bioware and EA, it's on another level. That said, I'm not going to be too optmistic about tomorrow.
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Post by linksocarina on Dec 4, 2020 0:25:52 GMT
Less Maxis, more Visceral, I suspect. Well, it doesn't bode well in either cases. As I said, mostly just in terms of vision and culture. I am not expecting BioWare to start making casual sim games any time soon.
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Post by Little Bengel on Dec 4, 2020 0:26:00 GMT
At this point, I'm still keeping an eye for DA4 and maybe ME5, but I will wait and see when it comes to whatever future projects Bioware announces after that.
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Post by linksocarina on Dec 4, 2020 0:27:18 GMT
At this point, I'm still keeping an eye for DA4 and maybe ME5, but I will wait and see when it comes to whatever future projects Bioware announces after that. Be ready to wait for a few years.
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Post by The Elder King on Dec 4, 2020 0:27:57 GMT
Well, it doesn't bode well in either cases. As I said, mostly just in terms of vision and culture. I am not expecting BioWare to start making casual sim games any time soon. I didn't mean that either, just that given what happened to those developers, it wouldn't be something I hope it happens to Bioware.
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Post by isaidlunch on Dec 4, 2020 0:28:53 GMT
Isn't DA4 still years away? I can't imagine we're getting anything tomorrow besides more "WE ARE SO EXCITED TO BE WORKING ON THIS GAME" and mysterious pictures of red lyrium
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Post by Andrew Waples on Dec 4, 2020 0:29:26 GMT
Going from Mike's reaction on twitter to it, I don't think they are. But I wouldn't be surprised if either David Gaider or Mike Laidlaw pick them up. There's also Amazon Game Studios which have a couple of Bioware vets as well, if I recall and then there's that WotC studio that made Sword Coast Legends that also has a few Bioware vets. I don't know how those studios are doing, though. I don't think Mark and Casey will be left alone for long, or they are into a business venture together. I think what we tend to forget in a lot of these departures, is that some of these lead devs want to go back to actually working "in the weeds" when it comes to developing a game. Overseeing development likely grew old for them, and there's some chance they opined for a time in which they were working in the small office building things up from scratch. And lead devs don't necessarily make the game. It's the hundreds of employees that work at BioWare do, the ones you don't see on Twitter-- that actually make the game.
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Post by abedsbrother on Dec 4, 2020 0:29:42 GMT
Well, it doesn't bode well in either cases. As I said, mostly just in terms of vision and culture. I am not expecting BioWare to start making casual sim games any time soon. They're both dead studios, which was my point.
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Post by Frost on Dec 4, 2020 0:32:05 GMT
Wow. Both leaving at once and Mark Darrah leaving right in the middle of DA4. Things don't look good for Bioware.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Dec 4, 2020 0:38:58 GMT
Tbf though, from EA's perspective, something had to happen. 5 years and MEA disappoints. EA's discontent with Bioware had started long before that. And it had to do with the reception of DA2, ToR and blew up with ME3. Which is why EA demanded the resignation of the Doctors. In exchange for a DLC that didn't save anything. Such a mishandled situation. How long did Anthem have? 5 years as well? Casey got to work on it shortly after ME3, so still in 2012. By every account I hear, it was 7 years. If I'm EA, I'm absolutely demanding some changes. But unfortunately the changes EA knows how to make are the sort of changes that will turn BioWare into another Maxis. (fwiw I'd love to be wrong.) The argument is that Bioware has been moving toward that direction, the one EA wanted, I'd argue since ME2. And I liked ME2.
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Post by Heimdall on Dec 4, 2020 0:39:01 GMT
Is it possible EA has put measures in place to have more direct say over BioWare’s game management given the leadership failures with Anthem and Andromeda?
This may be less a case of Darrah and Casey not liking what was happening with the games or just more generally not liking losing some of what autonomy they had.
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Post by lilyenachaos on Dec 4, 2020 0:44:09 GMT
Ehhh. Doesn't seem like great news but can't really judge anything until I see DA4, which is still years away. So I guess I'll save panicking for a later date.
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Post by The Elder King on Dec 4, 2020 0:46:09 GMT
Tbf though, from EA's perspective, something had to happen. 5 years and MEA disappoints. EA's discontent with Bioware had started long before that. And it had to do with the reception of DA2, ToR and blew up with ME3. Which is why EA demanded the resignation of the Doctors. In exchange for a DLC that didn't save anything. Such a mishandled situation. How long did Anthem have? 5 years as well? Casey got to work on it shortly after ME3, so still in 2012. By every account I hear, it was 7 years. If I'm EA, I'm absolutely demanding some changes. But unfortunately the changes EA knows how to make are the sort of changes that will turn BioWare into another Maxis. (fwiw I'd love to be wrong.) The argument is that Bioware has been moving toward that direction, the one EA wanted, I'd argue since ME2. And I liked ME2. Well, if they didn't like DA2's reception, maybe they shouldn't have pushed Bioware for a one-year development? I mean, I do agree that Bioware has a lot of blame for what happened in recent years, but for DA2 and I'd argue ME3, they gave them little development time, expecially DA2. Even with the new direction the game went compared to DAO, I honestly doubt it'd have got that reception if they had a proper development time, even if a part of the fanbase would've still complained about the changes. Expecially since something similar already happened with ME2. Your point on ME2 is actually true, but that game still gave us plenty of choices in regards of character personalization (not in regards of Shepard's appearance, but that happened for ME as well).
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Post by SomberXIII on Dec 4, 2020 0:47:15 GMT
This fucking broke out on literally Dragon Age Day. Being a Bioware superfan is a cursed existence.
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