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Post by The Elder King on Dec 4, 2020 9:26:58 GMT
Just to clarify, those departures got BioWare some kind of concessions from EA...like certain freedom in developing their games, or something different? Mostly, support from EA in the continuation of development of projects. Casey achieved a lot. Things I wasn't all aware of. The Anthem relaunch, which I knew, the ME remaster which I didn't know, ME5 which I knew and DA4 which we all knew. So depending on how the immediate project do and by immediate I mean ME:LE, Anthem 2.0 and DA4, Bioware might earn some of that independence back as trust in the studio grows from EA management and as people that EA management trusts, staff and remain in the studio, in places EA wants them to be. The problem I have with that is how much this compromises the "Bioware experience". And yeah, when the marketing campaign will kick in fully and we’ll get trailers and videos we’re going to know with more clarity the direction they took. Although only on release we’d know if they managed to prevent the problems they had in their recent releases. I think we'll see a better game, I don't know if it will be the experience we expect out of Bioware. I'm sure Bioware will find an audience, even within the fanbase here, but I don't know if this will be the future we want for Bioware. We'll see with DA4 what that sorta looks like. I have a bit of confidence based on some of the people that are still there. While we have different opinions on him, Epler is one developer that seems more focused on some to the things I care in BioWare games, like narrative and writing, compared to things that EA would push, and his tweets about DA day made me feel a bit better. Regardless, we won’t know for sure what we can expect from DA4 until they’ll release more info. I’d like to think with the news of the departures that BioWare/EA would give us some info between today and the VGA, but I’ll mantain my expectations low.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Dec 4, 2020 9:39:28 GMT
I have a bit of confidence based on some of the people that are still there. While we have different opinions on him, Epler is one developer that seems more focused on some to the things I care in BioWare games, like narrative and writing, compared to things that EA would push, and his tweets about DA day made me feel a bit better I don't know how I feel about John's particular narrative flavour. I'm not a fan of it, so far. I’d like to think with the news of the departures that BioWare/EA would give us some info between today and the VGA, but I’ll mantain my expectations low. Don't they have some livestream for DA day? I doubt we'll get more info on DA. I mean, we'll see some discussion and insight on things they are not under NDA about, which won't be much and the VGAs are more likely to show some Anthem content at this point, since that seems to be the most along production out of all the projects, even as it still has a long way ahead of it, in further production. At least, it seems so from the stuff that Christian has shared so far. I don't expect any ME:LE or DA4 content for the VGAs. I'd expect more ME:LE stuff, after January.
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Post by Reznore on Dec 4, 2020 11:06:11 GMT
I will miss Darrah trolling.
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coldsteelblue
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
PSN: coldsteelblue
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Post by coldsteelblue on Dec 4, 2020 12:06:42 GMT
What a thing to wake up to...sad me
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linksocarina
N5
Always teacher, sometimes writer
Teaching Mode Activated
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
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Post by linksocarina on Dec 4, 2020 12:51:20 GMT
I have a bit of confidence based on some of the people that are still there. While we have different opinions on him, Epler is one developer that seems more focused on some to the things I care in BioWare games, like narrative and writing, compared to things that EA would push, and his tweets about DA day made me feel a bit better I don't know how I feel about John's particular narrative flavour. I'm not a fan of it, so far. I’d like to think with the news of the departures that BioWare/EA would give us some info between today and the VGA, but I’ll mantain my expectations low. Don't they have some livestream for DA day? I doubt we'll get more info on DA. I mean, we'll see some discussion and insight on things they are not under NDA about, which won't be much and the VGAs are more likely to show some Anthem content at this point, since that seems to be the most along production out of all the projects, even as it still has a long way ahead of it, in further production. At least, it seems so from the stuff that Christian has shared so far. I don't expect any ME:LE or DA4 content for the VGAs. I'd expect more ME:LE stuff, after January. Do we have a confirmation of what Epler has written for the series thus far? I know he's a cinematic director on inquisition and lead narrative director now, but the only bits of writing I recall from him are his stories in tevinter nights. His narrative flavor would be interesting to compare to others, but I cant really think of an example outside of inquisitions cinematography, which is just a part of the dialogue and pacing.
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Post by KaiserShep on Dec 4, 2020 13:01:02 GMT
Hmm....perhaps Dragon Age is fucked after all.
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Post by river82 on Dec 4, 2020 13:07:47 GMT
Hmm....perhaps Dragon Age is fucked after all. That's probably going a bit too far. There's a lot to be optimistic about with the Dragon Age series I feel, but I don't think it's any secret that the reception of the next Dragon Age (and probably the recovery of Anthem) seems to be really important for Bioware's future. So no pressure I guess. Kinda feel sorry for the people working at Bioware atm to be honest
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eternalambiguity
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I am alive.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by eternalambiguity on Dec 4, 2020 13:37:03 GMT
Not good.
Was never a fan per se of Darrah, but him leaving right now seems bad.
I like Casey, he's done a lot of good over the years. Again, leaving right now seems like a bad thing. Maybe after DA or MENext had shipped it wouldn't have been concerning, but it is now.
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Post by KaiserShep on Dec 4, 2020 13:47:37 GMT
Hmm....perhaps Dragon Age is fucked after all. That's probably going a bit too far. There's a lot to be optimistic about with the Dragon Age series I feel, but I don't think it's any secret that the reception of the next Dragon Age (and probably the recovery of Anthem) seems to be really important for Bioware's future. So no pressure I guess. Kinda feel sorry for the people working at Bioware atm to be honest I abandoned optimism a long time ago. I’d rather be pleasantly surprised than disappointed. As of now, I’m keeping my expectations particularly low.
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Felya87
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Post by Felya87 on Dec 4, 2020 14:23:04 GMT
I can care less about Hudson. The guy got overhyped in my opinion, and I don't feel he was that good at his work as many said. But is just my own impression.
As for Darrah, I'm sorry, he was, at the very least, very good at interacting with the fan.
For the games, it's all a wait and see thing.
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Post by Frost on Dec 4, 2020 14:23:09 GMT
Which then brings me back to...at least for Darrah...has been at this for 21 years. And if he wasn't going to leave now at the end of the year where production would be winding down for the year...then when? Another 2-3 years at which point he could be getting even more burned out? Hell if he did want to go of his own volition because he was running out of steam, as much as I like him, is that really someone we want sheparding BioWare/ DA into the future? Because they are both leaving at the same time and say they don't know what they are doing next, it sounds like they were forced out by EA to me.
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Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Dec 4, 2020 14:28:54 GMT
I’d also say that if DA4 is going to be released after in 2022 or beyond, as it seems almost surely, the game isn’t really ‘on the horizon’. Besides, based on what others said it seems Darrah and Hudson took the fall for Anthem’s failure (although I’d argue that neither was responsible for it). What does that mean for BioWare and their projects, I don’t know. I’d say the best scenario is that DA4’s vision isn’t in question anymore (I do fear that their departures mean that EA will push for a vision more similar to Anthem), and that at release it’ll be successful enough to quell EA and their intentions. I don't exactly consider their reason of leaving to be "taking the blame" for the failure of Anthem. It has more to do with EA wanting more say in the direction of games going forward and Bioware seeing this as overstepping the boundaries. Bioware also wanted assurances from EA as to the continuation of their work, their projects, the staff etc. but EA, at this point, has every reason to want more to do with the development process. Ultimately, this was inevitable. To me the way I am reading the situation is that BioWare has started to come to the end of the rope that EA has given them with what you are saying here. I also don't think if any other publisher was involved that the situation would be that much different and if kept as an indie studio I doubt BioWare would be the same either if they still existed. It just seems to be a trend with BioWare that needs to be changed and while I understand the reluctance of someone that has worked a certain way for multiple decades, it sometimes is needed to fix the problems before they cannot be fixed. I have seen holding fast being the undoing of people and I wouldn't want that to happen to BioWare and I think there are plenty of people that are inside the studio still that want what I want in a BioWare game I don't think the departure here is the automatic ruination of a BioWare game. It just might mean I get what I want and get a game that isn't constantly trying to push the envelope in all directions.
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 4, 2020 15:02:38 GMT
My guess is that they internally announced they were leaving months ago and it was decided that it would be less of an impact and a smaller news story if the announcement of their departure was made at the same time. That way its not two high level employees leaving a different times prolonging the story. I wonder how long it has been known internally that they were departing. After all, we got the promotional video "Behind the Scenes" with both of them playing prominent parts. It all seemed very upbeat and enthusiastic about the next DA involving the team going to be associated with it and then two of that team jump ship only 3 months later with apparently no set plan about where they are going next. Who does that, particularly in the present climate when so many jobs are on the line because of Covid? Of course the video said the game was in early production, so may be they felt it better to go then rather than later but it seems to me if they were expressing genuine feelings in that video, they would have wanted to stay around to see it through or at least until it was nearer release. However, as other people have said, they are more higher level management than the actual creative team, so it may not impact unduly on the game itself so far as the production schedule goes. I just hope their departure wasn't over some bigger issue, like multiplayer focus or "live service" elements that will affect how the game eventually ships.
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Ravenfeeder
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Post by Ravenfeeder on Dec 4, 2020 15:20:44 GMT
The way it sounds to me is that one of them, probably Darrah, was forced out by EA. this was against Hudson wishes and he pushed back against it. When he was unsuccessful he had no option but to resign as well. At a guess Darrah was forced out because he didn't want to take DA in the direction EA wanted.
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Post by themikefest on Dec 4, 2020 15:21:43 GMT
So Darrah and Hudson leave. Happy trails. I believe any future Bioware game released that doesn't have a title with a word starting with A, will do well.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Dec 4, 2020 15:31:15 GMT
Do we have a confirmation of what Epler has written for the series thus far? I know he's a cinematic director on inquisition and lead narrative director now, but the only bits of writing I recall from him are his stories in tevinter nights. I think he has some very bad takes, the tweet about DA being about diversity and inclusivity and the familial bonds of friendship or whatever it was. I mean, yeah, but he made it sound like a hug box and DA is definitely not a hug box. There is a lot of rivalry and backstabbing, even within the companions. He made it sound too much like rainbows and sunshine. Which he is free to do, he's at a very influential position within DA and I doubt he'll find much opposition, if that is what he wants to do. Maybe I didn't see the nuance in his post, or many of his posts. Maybe I'm jumping to conclusions, but I'm not seeing something that I like, so far. And every time I've seen something that I didn't like, I was ... right enough about it. I hope John proves me wrong, because he's rubbed quite a few people the wrong way. I've had complaints. To me the way I am reading the situation is that BioWare has started to come to the end of the rope that EA has given them with what you are saying here. Some things are bound to happen, sooner or later. If it wasn't today, it would have been after DA4, if it wasn't DA4, it would have been ME5 etc. etc. The situation has been perpetuated enough and, I think, we could all see it with Anthem, when EA came knocking for a game that was 7 years in development. And DA4 is getting even more than that. While I do understand it has been rebooted twice/thrice now, I've lost count honestly, Anthem wasn't rebooted, because there was no Anthem to reboot. Which is insane to think of, after all those years of development. I also don't think if any other publisher was involved that the situation would be that much different and if kept as an indie studio I doubt BioWare would be the same either if they still existed. I think the problem started with some ridiculous dev cycles that EA had mandated back in 2010, with DA2 and ME3, which caused a lot of talent bleed, that wasn't recouped. A different publisher, perhaps, wouldn't be asking game releases every 12 months of Bioware. And I'm sure the financial backing of EA was much appreciated, but some staff weren't up for that grueling dev cycle. I don't know if, after ME1, had Bioware downsized to indie dev numbers, if it would have been good for the studio. Origins and ME2 would never have been made, under those conditions. So it could have been worse and it could have been better. As are all things in life. It just seems to be a trend with BioWare that needs to be changed and while I understand the reluctance of someone that has worked a certain way for multiple decades, it sometimes is needed to fix the problems before they cannot be fixed. I have seen holding fast being the undoing of people and I wouldn't want that to happen to BioWare and I think there are plenty of people that are inside the studio still that want what I want in a BioWare game I don't think the departure here is the automatic ruination of a BioWare game. It just might mean I get what I want and get a game that isn't constantly trying to push the envelope in all directions. That depends if the envelop is being pushed toward a direction that is what Bioware is known for, or if its going for something remote from that. Like, what if we keep getting more shallow story, open world collectathons, instead of tight story, hard choices, strong companions, or cinematic, linear, no choice experiences? There are many ways this can go and I fear the streamlining of the experience, even further. And as I've said, concessions were made, I fear what they mean.
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azarhal
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by azarhal on Dec 4, 2020 15:33:21 GMT
It's the official business post to say the studio manager is leaving and name his interim successor: Samantha Ryan. It's rather surprising they actually put Laura Miele's name on it. But this is terribly news, not really people leaving after 20 years, but that Samantha Ryan is now in-charge. Her idea of what a RPG is doesn't really match with BioWare's (old) vision and she could do a lots of damage if she stays around too long. Also, expect other people to leave the studio. These kind of departure usually leads to more people looking elsewhere. If Bioware was cranking out old style Bioware RPGs, Brent Knowles would likely still be at the studio. It's likely a well-considered and deliberate decision that someone with a different vision is in charge. That she has a history of being in charge of mobile was probably taken into consideration also. Looks like Bioware's a-changing a-little. Will be interesting to see what direction they go Samantha Ryan's idea of a RPG falls into the "adventure games with levels" category. See Shadow of Mordor and Batman Arkham Knight for examples of her work when she had a similar SVP position at WB Games (she takes credits for those games in interviews). You can pretty much say goodbye to dialogue choices in future BioWare games now. Her favorite game back when she joined EA in 2015 was Fallout 3. She doesn't necessarily make bad games, she just doesn't make the type of RPGs you would expect from BioWare.
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linksocarina
N5
Always teacher, sometimes writer
Teaching Mode Activated
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
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Post by linksocarina on Dec 4, 2020 15:44:34 GMT
Do we have a confirmation of what Epler has written for the series thus far? I know he's a cinematic director on inquisition and lead narrative director now, but the only bits of writing I recall from him are his stories in tevinter nights. I think he has some very bad takes, the tweet about DA being about diversity and inclusivity and the familial bonds of friendship or whatever it was. I mean, yeah, but he made it sound like a hug box and DA is definitely not a hug box. There is a lot of rivalry and backstabbing, even within the companions. He made it sound too much like rainbows and sunshine. Which he is free to do, he's at a very influential position within DA and I doubt he'll find much opposition, if that is what he wants to do. Maybe I didn't see the nuance in his post, or many of his posts. Maybe I'm jumping to conclusions, but I'm not seeing something that I like, so far. And every time I've seen something that I didn't like, I was ... right enough about it. I hope John proves me wrong, because he's rubbed quite a few people the wrong way. I've had complaints. I would recommend reading his contributions in Tevinter Nights then. As stand alone stories they heavily contradict that feeling, with one being some gold dark fantasy body horror and the other being about betrayal specifically.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Dec 4, 2020 15:45:34 GMT
You can pretty much say goodbye to dialogue choices in future BioWare games now. That's what I'm afraid of. This is the concession I am afraid has been made and nobody is talking about it.
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luketrevelyan
N4
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Post by luketrevelyan on Dec 4, 2020 15:52:16 GMT
This thread is not good for anxiety.
If they really did get rid of dialogue options, I would really have no reason to play future games. I have a hard time believing they would do that with DA4 though. Beyond that, maybe, but even then that is such a core part of BioWare.
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azarhal
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by azarhal on Dec 4, 2020 15:53:36 GMT
You can pretty much say goodbye to dialogue choices in future BioWare games now. That's what I'm afraid of. This is the concession I am afraid has been made and nobody is talking about it. It's pretty much what I'm expecting too: barely any dialogue choices + open world collectibles design.
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Dec 4, 2020 15:53:40 GMT
I heard they got rid of graphics too. Theres just blinking cursor on the black screen.
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correctamundo
N5
Dr Obfuscate
Don't knock the little winds. They're important - for morale.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: correctamundo1
Prime Posts: A thousand and then some.
Prime Likes: They never liked me! No one likes me!
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Post by correctamundo on Dec 4, 2020 16:03:40 GMT
I heard they got rid of graphics too. Theres just blinking cursor on the black screen. There is still a branching story though. Now you see it, now you don't.
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N5
Always teacher, sometimes writer
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
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August 2016
linksocarina
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
LinksOcarina
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Post by linksocarina on Dec 4, 2020 16:08:36 GMT
You can pretty much say goodbye to dialogue choices in future BioWare games now. That's what I'm afraid of. This is the concession I am afraid has been made and nobody is talking about it. No one has details to talk about. Just speculation at this time.
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inherit
9459
0
Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
5,622
SirSourpuss
7,694
Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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Post by SirSourpuss on Dec 4, 2020 16:09:05 GMT
I heard they got rid of graphics too. Theres just blinking cursor on the black screen. It's not what we're talking about. It's about streamlining the story telling experience and getting rid of unwanted consequences. Which seem to cause a lot of problems with reception of Bioware games and the development of future titles. It is a very sensible choice to make, from a management point of view. Like, if that is the problem of all my games, choices and consequences, getting rid of the choices, eliminates the consequences and makes the games far easier to develop. And if that upsets the existing fanbase, well, fuck them. They've caused nothing but problems, anyway and we don't need them. This other audience is far more monetizable than the previous one. I was already in the process of cutting them out, so might as well go complete cold turkey. It's not personal, it's just business.
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