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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 24, 2020 5:05:30 GMT
Exciting trailer! Barrage was my favorite Dragon Age spell so if we see more glyph spell effects I'm all for it. This is the light/nature contrasting with the dark/urban image we see below showing the same castle. I'm thinking this is actually from an ancient elven point of view of the central castle, with the other (following?) image showing the Tevinter occupation of that land in modern times. If I recall correctly, we saw a very similar castle depicting Arlathan in one of the books. Nah, this is most likely Antiva City. Guess everyone was lying about Antiva City being beautiful then.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 24, 2020 5:07:33 GMT
[...] Aren't the ballistas completely optional? (I see them largely as level designers giving a finger to those who dared not to bring a rogue this time ) If I recall right, any ranged attack or a well-placed kill-cloud-style spell could easily hit him regardless.
Anyone else also thinking of Andraste now?
Well she is a common subject for theories. And why shouldn't she be? Entire portions of the Chant seem really connected to ancient lore, and a lot of what she did or experienced can be explained by magic. He dreams in particular are commonly theorized to be the result of powerful spirits, Shartan (as an ancient elf), Solas, and yes--Mythal. Or what's left of her anyway. Sadly none of it is confirmed, and it is possible it never will be. But hey, if they are willing to confirm that the veil was a creation of Fen'Harel, attributing Andraste's visions to an ancient being seems like fair game. They'd may as well say the Maker isn’t real if they do the whole Andraste was wrong and it’s really ancient elves revelation.
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Post by colfoley on Dec 24, 2020 7:50:35 GMT
I think people are getting caught up on what the word 'death' means here. Death would mean something very different for a short lived species and one which has achieved 'effective immortality'. The most logical and consistent explanation itself is something Solas said on another issue. When asked about his friend the Pride Demon dying in the Exalted Plains he said something...to the effect of...that the spirit in question was dead and that something would reform in that spot but it would not be like his friend.
Thus I believe that something similar has happened in the case of Mytha. Killing her didn't entirely eliminate her for all of time, but weakened her and knocked her out of the picture for an extended period of time. And as Solas said still a crime that demanded some rather extreme punishment.
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 24, 2020 9:42:34 GMT
At the same time, the monachs don't seem to have the capabilities to respond to these templars (and the Witchwood mages, as well as the templars at Therinfal, but the latter are seemingly passive) running around on Ferelden's territory. Assuming that Fiona and Co. would not be able to beat back another templar assault. Actually this is something I have brought up repeatedly, what were the nobility of Ferelden doing whilst all this has been going on? They are not meant to be like those of Orlais, sitting in the Keeps and bringing in the tax revenue but doing very little for it. With Ferelden it has always been the case that the nobles have a duty to protect the freeholders and if they don't do their job, then the freeholders can see fit to give their patronage (and taxes) to someone else who will. So it isn't a job for life but a responsibility that you need to fulfill or it will be taken away from you. It is why I thought it perfectly reasonable for the Inquisition to have stayed on in Crestwood Keep because that is surely what the freeholders would have wanted. Whoever had the job before had clearly been useless at it because they had left the Keep unoccupied and then it was taken over by bandits. So, what would have satisfied me would have been for Fiona to point out how little the local nobility had been doing to help the refugees/freeholders and protect them from harm. Thus she surrendered her autonomy to Alexius because he was promising to do something about it. There is still the sticking point, though, that after she did surrender to Alexius he didn't do anything about the problems in the surrounding area. Still, it would have looked better than saying that they feared the Templars, despite being in such a defensible position, so surrendered the castle to the foreigner instead in return for the promise of indentured servitude for the next 7 years, which effectively removed the personal freedoms of every mage under her care.
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 24, 2020 9:49:34 GMT
Aren't the ballistas completely optional? (I see them lagely as level designers giving a finger to those who dared not to bring a rogue this time ) If I recall right, any ranged attack or a well-placed kill-cloud-style spell could easily hit him regardless. Technically the Arch-demon should be a lot more powerful than it is anyway. If you read Last Flight, its breath should not just cause spirit damage but be instant death to anyone in its path. I think Rhioden had weakened it enough that it couldn't fly properly, hence it landing on the roof, but I always think discretion is the better part of valour and if someone offers me the use of ballistas so I don't have to get up close to the big beastie, then I'm going to take them. My point is that monster in the picture ought to be way more than those guys in the foreground could deal with on their own. However, the more I think about it, the more I think the lightning in the picture is being used against the creature, which makes a lot of sense considering it is a sea monster and literally sitting in a load of water, so making for much easier conduction of the electricity against it.
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 24, 2020 9:53:25 GMT
Anyone else also thinking of Andraste now? Yes, I was outlining my thoughts on this in another thread. I think Mythal and Solas may have been talking to people via the Fade for years, sometimes subconsciously through their dreams so they aren't even aware of it, moving events in the direction they wished them to take. Which is why Flemeth can seem able to see the future because that it the way she intends it to be. Occasionally, though, things don't work out exactly as they engineered them to be. Solas and his orb being a case in point. "You should not have given your orb to Corypheus". Yep, I bet that messed up Mythal's plans as well in a way she had not foreseen.
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 24, 2020 10:00:15 GMT
It is possible that each of the Evanuris had a totem animal with which they split their soul and thus to reduce them to a non regenerating state that we have to find and kill that animal or object. I've just had one of my crazy inspirations; what if the crystal halla that Strife and Irelin have recovered is like the amulet in DA2 and is the way in which either Andruil or Ghilan'nan can be restored, effectively by-passing the wards on her imprisonment by Solas? So she doesn't need the Veil to be dropped for her to escape, just someone find and activate the halla with the appropriate ritual.
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 24, 2020 10:09:57 GMT
I'm thinking this is actually from an ancient elven point of view of the central castle, with the other (following?) image showing the Tevinter occupation of that land in modern times. you might be right about the first image being from Ancient Elven days...though it could also be easily during daytime and from a whole different direction. ou think that the magic coming from the Disney castle is an unsealed rift? My objection to it being Antiva City was the magic around the castle but it is possible it is sitting over a rift. Alternatively, if the Veil is starting to weaken, could it be a vision of what used to be there, that still exists in the Fade? Which is why it looks somewhat ethereal compared with the surrounding buildings. Or it was built over an ancient elven site and now that is starting to give off magic energy. If the city is under attack so the other buildings are actually on fire, may be some ancient magical protection has been activated around the castle. There was that fortress in the Exalted Plains where people had activated ancient defenses placed there by the elves, which they then couldn't control and we needed to shut off again. Or in the Brecillian Forest where there was a magical barrier that prevented us entering the werewolf lair without the requisite item to nullify its effects. May be it will be something similar with the castle.
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 24, 2020 10:19:53 GMT
Thus I believe that something similar has happened in the case of Mytha. Killing her didn't entirely eliminate her for all of time, but weakened her and knocked her out of the picture for an extended period of time. And as Solas said still a crime that demanded some rather extreme punishment. Which is why she seems more kindly disposed towards the Dalish than Solas is because it was their continued belief in her that allowed her to retain her identity in the Fade (plus that of her priesthood in the Arbor Wilds). This was the case with the Avvar gods when their mortal body was killed. It is noticeable that Flemeth did retain a similar sort of relationship with the Dalish that Mythal used to enjoy. The Keepers would only resort to asking her help if they were out of options and desperate because her aid always came with a price and she might just as easily kill them if she didn't consider it worthy of her time, just as you didn't ask Mythal for justice unless your motives were pure because otherwise she might smite the petitioner instead. It would also make sense that if Solas thought she might eventually return, it would be better to imprison the other Evanuris to await her judgement on them.
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Post by Little Bengel on Dec 24, 2020 11:07:23 GMT
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 24, 2020 11:17:27 GMT
Except the concept art (which is meh btw and doesn’t fit the Antiva aesthetic) didn’t translate well into game if that’s the same city. And that’s ignoring how Antiva is almost certainly going to be thrown under the bus with “We had one map, scratch it off the to visit list” while all the focus is elsewhere. They have too many nations in this game.
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Post by Little Bengel on Dec 24, 2020 11:49:07 GMT
Except the concept art (which is meh btw and doesn’t fit the Antiva aesthetic) didn’t translate well into game if that’s the same city. And that’s ignoring how Antiva is almost certainly going to be thrown under the bus with “We had one map, scratch it off the to visit list” while all the focus is elsewhere. They have too many nations in this game. I am so very curious to know how you know what an Antivan aesthetic is when we're only gonna get a proper look at it with this coming game. And as far as the nation itself goes, I'll be satisfied with just Antiva City if it's a sizeable map, although I'd like to see places like the Tellari swamps as well.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 24, 2020 12:21:36 GMT
Except the concept art (which is meh btw and doesn’t fit the Antiva aesthetic) didn’t translate well into game if that’s the same city. And that’s ignoring how Antiva is almost certainly going to be thrown under the bus with “We had one map, scratch it off the to visit list” while all the focus is elsewhere. They have too many nations in this game. I am so very curious to know how you know what an Antivan aesthetic is when we're only gonna get a proper look at it with this coming game. And as far as the nation itself goes, I'll be satisfied with just Antiva City if it's a sizeable map, although I'd like to see places like the Tellari swamps as well. Because we’ve had seen examples, from the comics to even Josephine’s Trespasser Romance epilogue slide (speaking of if we go to Antiva I guess I get to see that ruined too). I’m glad you have such a low bar of acceptable. Meanwhile that was one of the nations I wanted to see most, far more than Tevinter. My point still stands though. In DAI they couldn’t even handle two countries in a way people liked, yet this game seems to want to try at least five.
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Post by Little Bengel on Dec 24, 2020 12:41:36 GMT
Because we’ve had seen examples, from the comics to even Josephine’s Trespasser Romance epilogue slide (speaking of if we go to Antiva I guess I get to see that ruined too). As far as the art style goes, comics are always secondary to the games. Antiva City in the comics was absolutely lackluster compared even to the absolutely tiny area of Val Royeaux in Inquisition. And regarding Josie's Trespasser romance slide: You mean this slide with only one building with barely any detail to it? It looks like a vestigial early concept of an Antivan building, and a concept that can easily be expanded to look like what we saw in the trailer. Low bar of acceptable? Hardly. I call that being a realist. Tevinter and elven fuckery were always going to be focal points of DA4 since Trespasser. Antiva City and Weisshaupt are extra goodies. If BioWare dials down on the area size for this game, there may be more places to go to. I'm assuming they won't, and as such I must adjust my expectations appropriately. Given the talks about spycraft for Joplin (and given that I doubt they scrapped that for Morrison), I'd expect a somewhat larger focus on the cities of Thedas in general, and both Minrathous and Antiva City have impressed me. (particularly Minrathous - cyberpunk magic city ftw )
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 24, 2020 12:52:47 GMT
Because we’ve had seen examples, from the comics to even Josephine’s Trespasser Romance epilogue slide (speaking of if we go to Antiva I guess I get to see that ruined too). As far as the art style goes, comics are always secondary to the games. Antiva City in the comics was absolutely lackluster compared even to the absolutely tiny area of Val Royeaux in Inquisition. And regarding Josie's Trespasser romance slide: You mean this slide with only one building with barely any detail to it? It looks like a vestigial early concept of an Antivan building, and a concept that can easily be expanded to look like what we saw in the trailer.Low bar of acceptable? Hardly. I call that being a realist. Tevinter and elven fuckery were always going to be focal points of DA4 since Trespasser. Antiva City and Weisshaupt are extra goodies. If BioWare dials down on the area size for this game, there may be more places to go to. I'm assuming they won't, and as such I must adjust my expectations appropriately. Given the talks about spycraft for Joplin (and given that I doubt they scrapped that for Morrison), I'd expect a somewhat larger focus on the cities of Thedas in general, and both Minrathous and Antiva City have impressed me. (particularly Minrathous - cyberpunk magic city ftw ) That’s a completely different architectural style. If this was the real world, only idiots would think they are the same location. And you just said the same thing. I knew it was. One reason I was hoping not every country would be sucked into it. Antiva and Rivain would have fit much better in a game based around the Executors or going beyond Thedas for example. Minrathous is also a severe disappointment.
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Post by Little Bengel on Dec 24, 2020 13:01:50 GMT
That’s a completely different architectural style. If this was the real world, only idiots would think they are the same location. Well, the capital city of a Thedosian nation needs its own kind of flair and style. AC in the comics had none. Val Royeaux in Inquisition had enough for its size. And so did Kirkwall in DA2. Well, like it or not, BioWare likely had the gist of this planned for quite a while. And I much suspect this will be the game to set up a potential Executor-focused sequel, so... I dunno, AC's inclusion seems appropriate for me. In all the corners of the internet I've been to, you may just be the first person I've seen who's had that opinion. I half-suspect you're just being a contrarian now.
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Post by fairdragon on Dec 24, 2020 13:12:16 GMT
My guess is that he may need to free them for bringing the magic... but that his plan is to banish them back after rectifying a few Veil's settings. And that likely will not go well. I agree on this, but i think destroying the veil will not work as he think.
For some reason he knows he has to destroy the veil (Mythal/he knows the future/he is a teen). But I think is all go like he wanted, we doesn't get a next game. And to be honest, I want the arrogant eleven to learn something. it is not all his decision.
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Post by fairdragon on Dec 24, 2020 14:14:46 GMT
This was my hope too but the first thing I thought of when I saw the concept art was the tale of Ghilan’nain and what she had to do to become a god. On the second day she drowned the giants of the sea, except those in deep waters, for they were too well-wrought, and Pride stopped her hand. Even in Solas’ mural you can see seaweed hanging off of it and since we know she liked to experiment and it looks like a cobbled mess of different things. Not to mention the fact that one of Trespasser songs mentioned that Arlathan fell into the sea. It’s just that Mythal/Flemeth is so tied to being a dragon, even though she can probably be whatever she wants at this point. Ghilan'nain experimenting with brine pools and saving well wrought sea creatures doesn't necessarily mean she can turn into a sea serpent herself. Andruil supposedly turned Ghil into the first halla and Dirthamen created the varterral so creating creatures doesn't seem exclusive to Ghilan'nain. that is right for me she is the halla and mythal the dragon. (1)
Based on ancient elven runes at the Temple of Mythal: So Mythal spread rumors of a monstrous creature and took the form of a great serpent, waiting for Andruil at the base of a mountain.
The Dalish believe Mythal was born of the sea. That could mean the sea of dreams (aka the fade) but it could also mean an OG brine pool underground. After all we don't even really know what Mythal is. She certainly doesn't seem to be an elf like the other figures in the pantheon. I belive Mythal is a forgotten one and became a elven god through their marriage. In Mythal's legend she first walked from the sea onto land to join Elgar'nan who was born from the sun and earth. But maybe it isn't correctly handed down. blue and golden water and sun. Mythal came from the water, maybe she is born from the sun. That make the sun Elgar'nans father in law. Also, some people may have already pointed this out but one of Solas' murals in DAI look like his new mural, flipped. The blue sphere could represent the sea, while the gold sphere could represent the earth. Also the spheres are not within the semicircle containing the black city, but outside of it. They look like eluvian gatekeepers to me and the spheres correspond to the spheres in the new mural behind the elven figures. I theorised that maybe Solas needed an artifact of Mythal's/Elgar'nan's to enter the black city, like what he seems to be doing in the latest painting. Why golden the earth and not the sun? I see where you see solas but how is the left elve? the head looks like a bird. (1)
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 24, 2020 14:47:28 GMT
For some reason he knows he has to destroy the veil (Mythal/he knows the future/he is a teen). But I think is all go like he wanted, we doesn't get a next game. And to be honest, I want the arrogant eleven to learn something. it is not all his decision. It is interesting the conversation you can have with him after doing In Hushed Whispers. Solas finds it difficult to accept you actually went into the future, probably because the future was so different to the one he envisaged. Remember in his mind he was going to recover his orb, tear down the Veil and create an elven paradise again. Yet in the dark future, the Veil continued to deteriorate so that the Fade and Waking World merged but all that resulted was a demon haunted wasteland. So he questions if what you experienced was real and suggests it could have been a "trick of the Fade". You would hope that when you deny this is the case, it would at least give him pause for thought. After all, at the very least, that dark future was nothing like anything he or Mythal would have imagined. Alexius being able to manipulate time was something he clearly hadn't factored in, in much the same way as he didn't factor in Corypheus had learned the secret of effective immortality. He can also be surprised, if he approves of the Inquisitor, that the modern races could have produced such noble spirit. So may be he has something of a blind spot where other races are concerned because he is so convinced of the superiority of the ancient elves, he can't imagine any other race coming up with something on their own. This could be useful when trying to counter him. It would also explain why he won't see the PC coming because he just can't imagine the modern world producing two individuals that can astonish him. For him the Inquisitor was unique, so anyone else surprising him is just not possible.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 24, 2020 14:56:05 GMT
That’s a completely different architectural style. If this was the real world, only idiots would think they are the same location. Well, the capital city of a Thedosian nation needs its own kind of flair and style. AC in the comics had none. Val Royeaux in Inquisition had enough for its size. And so did Kirkwall in DA2. Well, like it or not, BioWare likely had the gist of this planned for quite a while. And I much suspect this will be the game to set up a potential Executor-focused sequel, so... I dunno, AC's inclusion seems appropriate for me. In all the corners of the internet I've been to, you may just be the first person I've seen who's had that opinion. I half-suspect you're just being a contrarian now. It could have flair while sticking to its inspiration and what we’ve already seen like the slide. With the Executors now getting dragged into the Solas plot, I don’t know if they’ll be the focus of another game. Just another thing ruined by DA4 I guess. Let me clarify that Minrathous as shown was impressive, just not as Minrathous. It is supposed to be an ancient city, not some cyberpunk one as you called it. What they showed would fit better for a nation outside of Thedas, since they wouldn’t have been affected by things like Blights thus more advanced but clearly still having Thedas trademarks like magic.
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Post by fairdragon on Dec 24, 2020 14:59:42 GMT
For some reason he knows he has to destroy the veil (Mythal/he knows the future/he is a teen). But I think is all go like he wanted, we doesn't get a next game. And to be honest, I want the arrogant eleven to learn something. it is not all his decision. It is interesting the conversation you can have with him after doing In Hushed Whispers. Solas finds it difficult to accept you actually went into the future, probably because the future was so different to the one he envisaged. Remember in his mind he was going to recover his orb, tear down the Veil and create an elven paradise again. Yet in the dark future, the Veil continued to deteriorate so that the Fade and Waking World merged but all that resulted was a demon haunted wasteland. So he questions if what you experienced was real and suggests it could have been a "trick of the Fade". You would hope that when you deny this is the case, it would at least give him pause for thought. After all, at the very least, that dark future was nothing like anything he or Mythal would have imagined. Alexius being able to manipulate time was something he clearly hadn't factored in, in much the same way as he didn't factor in Corypheus had learned the secret of effective immortality. He can also be surprised, if he approves of the Inquisitor, that the modern races could have produced such noble spirit. So may be he has something of a blind spot where other races are concerned because he is so convinced of the superiority of the ancient elves, he can't imagine any other race coming up with something on their own. This could be useful when trying to counter him. It would also explain why he won't see the PC coming because he just can't imagine the modern world producing two individuals that can astonish him. For him the Inquisitor was unique, so anyone else surprising him is just not possible. I don't speak much with Solas. Do you know what he say, if you take him in the dark futures along? His weaknis is his pride and his Status system. He only think that the people with power have the power to do somethink. His blindspot is the guerrilla war.
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Post by fairdragon on Dec 24, 2020 15:04:36 GMT
Well, the capital city of a Thedosian nation needs its own kind of flair and style. AC in the comics had none. Val Royeaux in Inquisition had enough for its size. And so did Kirkwall in DA2. Well, like it or not, BioWare likely had the gist of this planned for quite a while. And I much suspect this will be the game to set up a potential Executor-focused sequel, so... I dunno, AC's inclusion seems appropriate for me. In all the corners of the internet I've been to, you may just be the first person I've seen who's had that opinion. I half-suspect you're just being a contrarian now. It could have flair while sticking to its inspiration and what we’ve already seen like the slide. With the Executors now getting dragged into the Solas plot, I don’t know if they’ll be the focus of another game. Just another thing ruined by DA4 I guess. Let me clarify that Minrathous as shown was impressive, just not as Minrathous. It is supposed to be an ancient city, not some cyberpunk one as you called it. What they showed would fit better for a nation outside of Thedas, since they wouldn’t have been affected by things like Blights thus more advanced but clearly still having Thedas trademarks like magic. Are you sure Minrathous is an ancient city. I thought is was a fan theory. I always thought the black city is the ancient city. And Minrathous is only a human city. If you put magic and and all we know together i think it fits. But that is my opinion.
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Post by fairdragon on Dec 24, 2020 15:18:07 GMT
Maybe there something in the Silent Plains that might be valuable to the right person? We know that's where Dumat was finally killed. I think the Ingirsh (a human tribe) lived there at one point too. According to the Chantry, they gave up worship the Maker for a Demon similar to how the Neromenians did (could this be the forgotten 8th old god?) so they could defend themselves against Neromenian invaders. I belive that the 8th forgotten one is mythal. Silent plains is also mentioned by Merrill Makes me wonder if this is a much older legend. I also remember reading about a Elvhen library sinking into the dessert sands. The only deserts in Thedas I can think of it the ones in the Anderfels, western Orlais, Sea of Ash, and Silent Plains. Since DA4 is focusing on Northern Thedas, then maybe that library is located there?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 24, 2020 15:40:40 GMT
It could have flair while sticking to its inspiration and what we’ve already seen like the slide. With the Executors now getting dragged into the Solas plot, I don’t know if they’ll be the focus of another game. Just another thing ruined by DA4 I guess. Let me clarify that Minrathous as shown was impressive, just not as Minrathous. It is supposed to be an ancient city, not some cyberpunk one as you called it. What they showed would fit better for a nation outside of Thedas, since they wouldn’t have been affected by things like Blights thus more advanced but clearly still having Thedas trademarks like magic. Are you sure Minrathous is an ancient city. I thought is was a fan theory. I always thought the black city is the ancient city. And Minrathous is only a human city. If you put magic and and all we know together i think it fits. But that is my opinion. Minrathous has been around for thousands of years. Sure it's not as old as places like Arlathan or the immortal Black City, but it's still ancient. And we have people from there say so, like Dorian mentioning how you can turn a street corner and see a building that's existed for centuries.
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fairdragon
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fairdragon
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Post by fairdragon on Dec 24, 2020 15:44:32 GMT
I have to admit, I can't see how those four characters have any hope against that monster unless they have acquired some sort of magical artifact we know nothing about. It's way bigger than the arch-demon and we needed ballistas against that. But it is at least concept art so maybe they chance that.
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