jrpN7
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Pro vobis omne periculum.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age Inquisition
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Post by jrpN7 on Dec 22, 2020 16:28:30 GMT
And if the writers are that bad, that they can't even emulate the old style, a glib facsimile of what use to be, then there is no hope of Ryder's return being good or anyone new being good. And if it's bad, at least it will be Citadel levels of bad, for Shepard and co. For anyone else? It will be a roast. BioWare took a huge punch to the face with ME3's endings. To say that they got a black eye is an understatement - in many peoples eyes BioWare died that day. I am in that group that will never again simply buy another BioWare game based on faith alone. I grant BioWare no leniency after ME3 and those endings, and the middle finger extended in my face with the phrase "Artistic Integrity". I saw the EC as them realizing that they left a lot of business unfinished. For me, a slide-show did not cut it. Ryder is not an N7 - nor will they ever be. Anthem is as dead as fried chicken. Let us hope that BioWare can bring back the Magic. I will watch from a distance. Part of me says redo ME3 or the ending(s) - but I also see that going forwards would be difficult with CDR Shepard. I suppose I am fortunate because I didn't get to the ending of ME3 until after the EC was rolled out. I didn't witness whatever happened prior, I just know it was a shitshow. So for me, ME3's endings weren't that bad. They weren't amazing, but they sufficed well enough for me to consider ME3 as a whole one of the best games I've ever played. Seriously, the last 10 minutes do breakaway from expectations, but the dialogue, the story, the side missions, the atmosphere of events in ME3 are all incredulously stellar and I felt the magic at every turn and in every DLC. The sense of urgency and fear was almost intoxicating. It felt so real. There was a twinkling of magic in Andromeda for the first 10-20 minutes with papa Ryder (a true N7) but I lost it almost immediately after returning from habitat 7. Obviously that was the first mission, so the rest of the game was a big problem for me. EDIT: Also your avatar seems broken on my end
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Cyberstrike
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is wanting to have some fun!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
XBL Gamertag: cyberstrike nTo
PSN: cyberstrike-nTo
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Post by Cyberstrike on Dec 22, 2020 17:03:11 GMT
Why is the fact that the Ryder twins are not N7 such a big fucking deal? They aren't supposed to be N7, and I don't want every fucking protagonist to be an N7 in every fucking Mass Effect game because it gets fucking BORING after a while and devalues what the N7s mean: the N7 are humanity's toughest, smartest, and best soldiers and officers. Only a very few get all the way through the N7 training program, if everybody and their sibling becomes an N7 then it has no meaning. The Ryder twins aren't N7 big deal? Neither is Ash, Kaiden, or Vega (who only gets accepted to begin N7 training) and every other Alliance solider Shepard serves with in all 3 games except for Anderson. Other than Shepard, Anderson, and Alec Ryder are the only officially N7 soldiers we meet in all 4 games, honestly you meet more Specters than N7s. The Ryder twins aren't supposed to be N7s and they are better characters for not being N7s which would make them just Shepard wannabes. So no thanks! They have some N7 tricks that their father maybe/hopefully taught them but Alec Ryder was using SAM and the profiles more on Habitat 7 than N7 training which only consisted of shooting some Kett (which his kids, Liam, and Cora also do quite well) and planting some bombs undetected which any decent special forces officer could do.
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Kabraxal
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Kabraxal on Dec 22, 2020 17:10:38 GMT
Why is the fact that the Ryder twins are not N7 such a big fucking deal? They aren't supposed to be N7, and I don't want every fucking protagonist to be an N7 in every fucking Mass Effect game because it gets fucking BORING after a while and devalues what the N7s mean: the N7 are humanity's toughest, smartest, and best soldiers and officers. Only a very few get all the way through the N7 training program, if everybody and their sibling becomes an N7 then it has no meaning. The Ryder twins aren't N7 so what, they aren't supposed to be and they are better characters for not being N7 which would make them Shepard wannabes. They have some N7 tricks that their father maybe/hopefully taught them but Alec Ryder was using SAM and the profiles more on Habitat 7 than N7 training which only consisted of shooting some Kett (which his kids, Liam, and Cora also do quite well) and planting some bombs undetected. I’ve noticed it’s mostly the fans that just can’t let go of Shepard. If they can’t have that specific N7 back, then they just want a generic “bad ass” rip off that makes it feel like Shepard. Notice how many of them cling to Alec Ryder and bemoan the reality he wasn’t the protagonist... some people will never be able to move on from Shepard. It’s kinda sad actually.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Dec 22, 2020 17:26:48 GMT
I’ve noticed it’s mostly the fans that just can’t let go of Shepard. If they can’t have that specific N7 back, then they just want a generic “bad ass” rip off that makes it feel like Shepard. Notice how many of them cling to Alec Ryder and bemoan the reality he wasn’t the protagonist... some people will never be able to move on from Shepard. It’s kinda sad actually. I don't really care what kind of person they introduce, mostly because I have little interest in following it, whoever it is, but whether that person will be a N7 or something else is not a deciding factor. As ME is now, I have little interest in following it. At least financially.
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jrpN7
N3
Pro vobis omne periculum.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age Inquisition
Posts: 731 Likes: 1,860
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Post by jrpN7 on Dec 22, 2020 17:58:31 GMT
I dunno, maybe because it was advertised as a MASS EFFECT game and not TerraGenesis? And maybe because a lot of the details coming out pre-release indicated N7 would play a big role in the game? And you want to talk about BORING? People coming off a heavily intense N7 Mass Effect trilogy are suddenly expected to just like exploring and scanning plants because you want to play scientist? There are other games out there for that. I’ve noticed it’s mostly the fans that just can’t let go of Shepard. If they can’t have that specific N7 back, then they just want a generic “bad ass” rip off that makes it feel like Shepard. Notice how many of them cling to Alec Ryder and bemoan the reality he wasn’t the protagonist... some people will never be able to move on from Shepard. It’s kinda sad actually. Interesting how you're trying to make people feel silly for recognizing and relating to an interestingly authentic, strong and mature lead in exchange for the wishwash all around him. I think you can't accept that fact that majority of players disliked Ryder and preferred Shepard point blank
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Little Bengel
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Partying like it's 1999
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Post by Little Bengel on Dec 22, 2020 18:37:40 GMT
I personally only accept a Shepard VI in the new game.
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twalicious
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Post by twalicious on Dec 22, 2020 18:57:27 GMT
Cyberstrike Kabraxal Well it would make sense ME1-3 would attract a particular type of gamer with certain interests over the years. Of course they're going to be interested in seeing that particular type of environment and/or protagonist type they associate with ME continue; it doesn't have to be Shepard per se. BioWare did string them along into Andromeda with Alec and then gave them... baby Ryder. You can't be surprised they found Andromeda not to their liking. Alec was the closest resemblance to what they thought they were getting. I personally have many tastes and didn't mind losing the N7 aspect and engaging in exploration (although I'm not a fan of open worlds). But, I can see why many traditional ME players could've been turned off by Ryder's goofiness or the setting. Even with my easily amused/content nature, I grew bored and felt detached from the game after a while and found the crew annoying.
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Kabraxal
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Post by Kabraxal on Dec 22, 2020 19:02:36 GMT
I dunno, maybe because it was advertised as a MASS EFFECT game and not TerraGenesis? And maybe because a lot of the details coming out pre-release indicated N7 would play a big role in the game? And you want to talk about BORING? People coming off a heavily intense N7 Mass Effect trilogy are suddenly expected to just like exploring and scanning plants because you want to play scientist? There are other games out there for that. I’ve noticed it’s mostly the fans that just can’t let go of Shepard. If they can’t have that specific N7 back, then they just want a generic “bad ass” rip off that makes it feel like Shepard. Notice how many of them cling to Alec Ryder and bemoan the reality he wasn’t the protagonist... some people will never be able to move on from Shepard. It’s kinda sad actually. Interesting how you're trying to make people feel silly for recognizing and relating to an interestingly authentic, strong and mature lead in exchange for the wishwash all around him. I think you can't accept that fact that majority of players disliked Ryder and preferred Shepard point blank Authentic, strong, and mature... Hate to break it to you, but a lot of the MET is a melodramatic soap opera and Shepard can be dopey as fuck as hell. O and don’t forget punching reporters. And I have no problem with preferences. But I do have a problem with the tiny cried of Shepard obsessives that shit on anything that isn’t bringing their space messiah back. Shepard was given a trilogy. Time to move on.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Dec 22, 2020 19:08:53 GMT
But I do have a problem with the tiny cried of Shepard obsessives that shit on anything that isn’t bringing their space messiah back. Shepard was given a trilogy. Time to move on. I sense a meltdown incoming.
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Kabraxal
N4
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Post by Kabraxal on Dec 22, 2020 19:17:46 GMT
But I do have a problem with the tiny cried of Shepard obsessives that shit on anything that isn’t bringing their space messiah back. Shepard was given a trilogy. Time to move on. I sense a meltdown incoming. I’ll admit, I have less patience for the “muh Shepard!” crowd. I had steered clear of the main reddit and many topics here because I was sick of the bad arguments and the ignorant meme ridden takes. I didn’t understand why Bioware closed their official forums, but the last three years cleared up that confusion real quick. The internet subculture is a toxic wasteland.
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Post by alanc9 on Dec 22, 2020 19:21:11 GMT
I’ve noticed it’s mostly the fans that just can’t let go of Shepard. If they can’t have that specific N7 back, then they just want a generic “bad ass” rip off that makes it feel like Shepard. Notice how many of them cling to Alec Ryder and bemoan the reality he wasn’t the protagonist... some people will never be able to move on from Shepard. It’s kinda sad actually. I don't really care what kind of person they introduce, mostly because I have little interest in following it, whoever it is, but whether that person will be a N7 or something else is not a deciding factor. As ME is now, I have little interest in following it. At least financially. Serious question: after ME5 ships, are you going to be one of those guys who repeatedly posts detailed critiques of a game he hasn't played? It's an unpleasantly common style these days; such posters are rife on BG3 3boards, for instance.
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Post by twalicious on Dec 22, 2020 19:30:46 GMT
Kabraxal I think what they're getting at is Shepard embodied strength and leadership (tagged with N7?), but there was enough silliness (the clone DLC for starters) to make it fun. It wasn't immersion breaking from it being relentless like it was with Ryder. And don't worry. I'm sure the Shepard crowd has little patience with your crowd as well.
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Post by flyingsquirrel on Dec 22, 2020 20:10:59 GMT
ME3's system essentially checks for completionism. If you do sidequests and imported a save, you'll pass any check. I have to nitpick and point out that this isn't quite true on Rannoch. You need several variables from previous choices in place to be able to negotiate Geth/Quarian peace.
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Post by kotoreffect3 on Dec 22, 2020 20:25:18 GMT
Shepard's story is done but there are more stories that can be told in the Milky Way. I wouldn't mind if we see some familiar faces as cameos but I want to experience a familiar setting with a fresh perspective and new characters including a new protagonist.
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GalentheYounger
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Post by GalentheYounger on Dec 22, 2020 21:59:04 GMT
I just saw this thread so sorry if injecting this disrupts the flow of conversation. My deepest fear is that they canonize Paragon MShep Destroy ending who romanced Liara, and you are forced to play through that lens (as this thread already seems to imply, by solely referring to Shep as 'he.') For me, FShep and her romance with Kaidan really meant a lot - that was Mass Effect, to me, and I would really hate to see that level of player choice tossed out the window. I personally do not think that they will touch Shep too much - I think folks would be really upset, as I personally would be. Liara may or may not have one or two lines about how much she cared about Shep, general enough to assuage those who were close to Liara, but she will be older and a matriarch. Watch me be wrong though, lol. I put so much faith in CDPR doing the right thing for CP2077 and look what we got
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Post by alanc9 on Dec 22, 2020 22:31:39 GMT
I just saw this thread so sorry if injecting this disrupts the flow of conversation. My deepest fear is that they canonize Paragon MShep Destroy ending who romanced Liara, and you are forced to play through that lens (as this thread already seems to imply, by solely referring to Shep as 'he.') For me, FShep and her romance with Kaidan really meant a lot - that was Mass Effect, to me, and I would really hate to see that level of player choice tossed out the window. I personally do not think that they will touch Shep too much - I think folks would be really upset, as I personally would be. Liara may or may not have one or two lines about how much she cared about Shep, general enough to assuage those who were close to Liara, but she will be older and a matriarch. Watch me be wrong though, lol. I put so much faith in CDPR doing the right thing for CP2077 and look what we got I don't see why it makes sense to worry about any particular choice. Canonizing anything means canonizing everything; the past of this game had one Shepard, and it wasn't any of yours. IDGAF about this. The way I see it, I've got plenty of Shepards, and at any given gameplay moment most of them are noncanon since I'm playing a different one. IF ME5 means that all of them are noncanon for the moment, what of it?
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by ahglock on Dec 22, 2020 22:32:16 GMT
And if the writers are that bad, that they can't even emulate the old style, a glib facsimile of what use to be, then there is no hope of Ryder's return being good or anyone new being good. And if it's bad, at least it will be Citadel levels of bad, for Shepard and co. For anyone else? It will be a roast. I think that the company understands this. They have been quietly polling and surveying gamers (not just the old BSN and the unofficial BSNers, but as large a sample group as they can) to see what said gamers want. The reflection of all of this is that ambiguous game trailer. The devs have been pretty enigmatic about it as well. I think that the whole thing was a PR move - you throw out a trailer and see which way the winds are blowing. Sadly, this means that they are rudderless. With "Mr. Artistic Integrity" gone, BioWare can choose a path forward - but do they know which way to go? Trying to catch all of the games they were juggling will result in everything falling down, in my opinion. Ryder is not an N7 - nor will they ever be. Anthem is as dead as fried chicken. Given the writers that BioWare has, even I am not sure which direction they should go - and I thought I knew everything. To me, "Mass Effect" is the original game. I love the Mako, the guns, armors, planets, maps, companions - all of it. There was a dream in there that was so tangible and so beautiful, even for its old graphics. Part of my soul will always be on the Citadel, looking out over the ward arms and watching the Destiny Ascension glide by. What a glorious and beautiful dream it would be to live there. Let us hope that BioWare can bring back the Magic. I will watch from a distance. Part of me says redo ME3 or the ending(s) - but I also see that going forwards would be difficult with CDR Shepard. I'd of been fine with MEA2, I'd of been fine with a ME4, if they try to merge the two with Ryder and crew in the MW I wont waste my time on it, even when it becomes free on a service. And sadly that is what I expert them to try, they are going to try and grab people from both sides making neither side happy.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Dec 22, 2020 23:22:17 GMT
Serious question: after ME5 ships, are you going to be one of those guys who repeatedly posts detailed critiques of a game he hasn't played? It's an unpleasantly common style these days; such posters are rife on BG3 3boards, for instance. It's a little early for that. Maybe in 5 years I'll be able to answer that. I consider myself certainly enough of an asshole to do it. Besides, if the game gets roasted, do I really need to play it? Why should I submit myself to that torture? Had enough of that with DA2, ME3, DA:I and ME:A. No thanks, no more. Had enough. But you can still like it if you want. I like "The Room" and "Space Mutiny".
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Post by alanc9 on Dec 22, 2020 23:44:37 GMT
I saw the EC as them realizing that they left a lot of business unfinished. For me, a slide-show did not cut it. What would have cut it. Is there actual evidence for this? As far as I can see, they've done their research and have made their decisions. Would EA really sign off on a teaser without a plan they believe to be viable?
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Post by SirSourpuss on Dec 22, 2020 23:57:04 GMT
Would EA really sign off on a teaser without a plan they believe to be viable? Yes. A small team working on ME5, while the larger part of Bioware is working on DA4 isn't even an expenditure for EA. They can always cancel it, whenever they feel like it.
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Post by biggydx on Dec 23, 2020 2:39:41 GMT
I think one of the problems with always having a predetermined background (such as N7) is that you tend to assign the player a "role" that they may not want. Someone may not want the background of hardened soldier. That's not to say that Mass Effect has really had deep role-playing elements related to your background (at least since ME1), but I do see the merit in not always starting out with a grizzled combat vet. I think the N7 title was ultimately started as a means of giving Shepard the military know-how to justify his position as a SPECTRE; who primarily consist military/intelligence vets.
Also, IIRC, male Ryder already had some degree of military/civilian enforcement training.
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Post by NotN7 on Dec 23, 2020 3:41:52 GMT
I think one of the problems with always having a predetermined background (such as N7) is that you tend to assign someone a "role" that they may not want. Someone may not want the background of hardened soldier. That's not to say that Mass Effect has really had deep role-playing elements related to your background (at least since ME1), but I do see the merit in not always starting out with a grizzled combat vet. I think the N7 title was ultimately started as a means of giving Shepard the military know-how to justify his position as a SPECTRE; who primarily consist military/intelligence vets. Also, IIRC, male Ryder already had some degree of military/civilian enforcement training. I agree the N7 designation was and will be important but not at this point, Vega had received an invite to the N7 program but as the state of the universe is as it is (to me) it will be awhile before the program is up and running again think about it a lot of people can't commutate with each other let alone being able to travel for training so to me the N7 reference in the teaser is more sentimental game wise cause as far as we know Sheppard was the last (sorry but old man Ryder was stripped of his N7 status)
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Post by alanc9 on Dec 23, 2020 4:46:11 GMT
Would EA really sign off on a teaser without a plan they believe to be viable? Yes. A small team working on ME5, while the larger part of Bioware is working on DA4 isn't even an expenditure for EA. They can always cancel it, whenever they feel like it. Is there precedent for this? It doesn't sound all that rational, and it doesn't match what I've heard about EA's procedures in the past. Or is this one of those "it could be true, and I choose to believe it" things?
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Dec 23, 2020 9:25:32 GMT
I think one of the problems with always having a predetermined background (such as N7) is that you tend to assign the player a "role" that they may not want. Someone may not want the background of hardened soldier. That's not to say that Mass Effect has really had deep role-playing elements related to your background (at least since ME1), but I do see the merit in not always starting out with a grizzled combat vet. I think the N7 title was ultimately started as a means of giving Shepard the military know-how to justify his position as a SPECTRE; who primarily consist military/intelligence vets. Also, IIRC, male Ryder already had some degree of military/civilian enforcement training. I actually felt very .. bad in the beginning of ME1 when it was revealed I was to be playing a soldier. That didnt sound nice, so I took some other (cant remember which) path, but I was still a soldier, just not using guns so much. It felt something I didnt want to be. On Ryder as young as he is, I felt more freedom where to take him, but still soldiered on when needed
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SirSourpuss
7,694
Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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Post by SirSourpuss on Dec 23, 2020 11:37:16 GMT
Is there precedent for this? EA canceling games? No. Never happened before. It doesn't sound all that rational, and it doesn't match what I've heard about EA's procedures in the past. I hear it all the time. Especially when EA wants to oust somebody. They give them a project to work on, until their contract expires, game gets canceled a little prior to that, person gets left without a goal in the company for a while, contract expires, person leaves. Didn't Amy Hennig get that same treatment? Or is this one of those "it could be true, and I choose to believe it" things? Believe what you want.
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