Mithras
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Post by Mithras on May 23, 2021 17:49:44 GMT
Well, Nenealeus is dead. That was easy.
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Post by necrowaif on May 23, 2021 22:59:34 GMT
In today’s comic-related tweet, Fenris leads Vaea away from a tentacle hentai monster.
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Post by QuizzyBunny on May 24, 2021 0:16:25 GMT
That first pic with Fenris made me sad... doesn't have partners or teammates anymore? So is everything my Hawke and him had just gone now in their canon? Because I never imagined them doing different things for a limited time meaning they were no longer together.
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Post by necrowaif on May 24, 2021 0:58:37 GMT
That first pic with Fenris made me sad... doesn't have partners or teammates anymore? So is everything my Hawke and him had just gone now in their canon? Because I never imagined them doing different things for a limited time meaning they were no longer together. As Nunzio explained, Fenris is sad over the breaking of the fellowship from Kirkwall. Your choices still matter, he's just depressed about being alone and has reverted to “broody loner” mode.
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Post by QuizzyBunny on May 24, 2021 8:59:24 GMT
As Nunzio explained, Fenris is sad over the breaking of the fellowship from Kirkwall. Your choices still matter, he's just depressed about being alone and has reverted to “broody loner” mode. Oh okay, I guess maybe I was too quick to despair there. I'm really invested in my Fenrismance, and given how unhappy Fenris has been most of his life I just hated the idea that he'd be alone again. Glad that's not the case.
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Post by necrowaif on May 24, 2021 17:30:12 GMT
In today’s comic-related tweet, Francesca begins her transformation into Sailor Moon! BTW, Dark Horse has a 50 per cent off sale right now on digital fantasy comics (the “Mythical Beasts” sale) and that includes the Dragon Age comics.
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Post by gervaise21 on May 24, 2021 18:58:34 GMT
That first pic with Fenris made me sad... doesn't have partners or teammates anymore? As Nunzio explained, Fenris is sad over the breaking of the fellowship from Kirkwall. I must admit the game writers have been very inconsistent over the team from Kirkwall. At the end of DA2 we were told that everyone had left Hawke except their love interest, in my case Fenris. Now that made it sound like the team had broken up from each other as well. Yet we understand from DAI that Averline is still in Kirkwall, as was Varric and he says that Merrill is still there helping the elves, so Fenris could have stayed in Kirkwall too and helped out. Then regardless of whether Hawke angered Sebastian or not, they are able to return to Kirkwall after their trip to Weisshaupt. So that would mean of the old team there was Hawke, Varric, Averline and Merrill still located in Kirkwall. Isabella keeps in touch with Varric too because they made that trip together with Alistair between DA2 and DAI. So apart from Anders, who may or may not be dead, and Hawke sibling, who may or may not be dead, the team is pretty much all there. Yet Fenris felt compelled to head off north, when he didn't seem inclined to do that in any conversation we had before, and then feels depressed and alone after being "abandoned" by his former friends. Seems like he abandoned them rather than the other way around.
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Post by necrowaif on May 24, 2021 22:11:11 GMT
That first pic with Fenris made me sad... doesn't have partners or teammates anymore? As Nunzio explained, Fenris is sad over the breaking of the fellowship from Kirkwall. I must admit the game writers have been very inconsistent over the team from Kirkwall. At the end of DA2 we were told that everyone had left Hawke except their love interest, in my case Fenris. Well, that can be explained by Varric lying through his teeth. However, the Band of Hawke did break up to some extent, as Cassandra dragged Varric down south, Sebastian went to Starkhaven and Hawke fucked off to chase up info on red lyrium.
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Post by Solas on May 25, 2021 4:09:53 GMT
just one day to gooooaaaaAAAAAAAA
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Post by gervaise21 on May 25, 2021 7:12:07 GMT
Hawke fucked off to chase up info on red lyrium. Hawke followed up on some leads that seemed to show something was wrong with the Wardens, presumably after Corypheus showed himself, since I never understood why they should feel they should get involved with the problems in the Wardens if they didn't immediately know Corypheus was involved. I find it strange that when the big hole appeared in the sky, Hawke didn't get more involved with the Inquisition straight away as the only organisation doing anything about it, bearing in mind Varric would have been keeping them informed. In fact, what makes even less sense would be that Fenris didn't get involved in the events surrounding the Venatori and Elder One in the south as that is where the threat from rogue magic principally lay at that time. If you don't want magic users conquering the world and think magic is a plague upon it, as Fenris does, surely fighting the Elder One and his followers would be a cause he would embrace?
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Post by necrowaif on May 25, 2021 8:32:25 GMT
As I’ve said in other threads, Hawke’s usefulness to the Inquisition was very limited prior to Corypheus appearing on the scene.
Hawke can’t close rifts, and while they are a very capable warrior/rogue/mage, Hawke’s presence could potentially have led to more internal conflicts among the mages and Templars. (Remember, Hawke is both regarded as a hero by one side and vilified by the other.)
Besides, it’s not like the Inquisition had a shortage of capable fighters.
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Post by catcher on May 25, 2021 16:31:22 GMT
I must admit the game writers have been very inconsistent over the team from Kirkwall. At the end of DA2 we were told that everyone had left Hawke except their love interest, in my case Fenris. Now that made it sound like the team had broken up from each other as well. Yet we understand from DAI that Averline is still in Kirkwall, as was Varric and he says that Merrill is still there helping the elves, so Fenris could have stayed in Kirkwall too and helped out. Then regardless of whether Hawke angered Sebastian or not, they are able to return to Kirkwall after their trip to Weisshaupt. So that would mean of the old team there was Hawke, Varric, Averline and Merrill still located in Kirkwall. Isabella keeps in touch with Varric too because they made that trip together with Alistair between DA2 and DAI. So apart from Anders, who may or may not be dead, and Hawke sibling, who may or may not be dead, the team is pretty much all there. Yet Fenris felt compelled to head off north, when he didn't seem inclined to do that in any conversation we had before, and then feels depressed and alone after being "abandoned" by his former friends. Seems like he abandoned them rather than the other way around. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the picture and the comments about Fenris from the comic series written by a different writer(s) than the game? I know we fans are a bit retentive about continuity but I'm thinking if there's any blame here, it falls on Nunzio (Don't worry, Nunzio, I'm not throwing you under the bus on this ) Even so, you don't have to go too far to explain all the elements you named above. While Fenris may long for the company and camaraderie, he's not really good at the niceties needed to keep it. That spiky armor he wears (like all the other DA2 companion costumes) is a not so subtle reflection of his personality. There may have been some kind of tiff that Varric was unaware of or just general grinding irritation (particularly between Fenris and Merrill) that caused him to head north away from the rest of the Band of Hawke. Even without that, as someone who has lived a fair bit of time, you can drift apart from good friends even if you are living in the same geographic area. It doesn't take much to imagine that Varric is just too busy cleaning up Bartrand's mess and with the Merchant's Guild and then there's that Interview with a Seeker. Aveline is till trying to clean up the guards while holding together a wounded city. Merrill is trying to find a new place to fit among the elves. Sebastian has his hands more than full with Starkhaven. Without some kind of imminent problem on or the other can't or won't handle on their own, there's just no big reason to get back together. Of course, Fenris might see this as being 'abandoned' while not being technically correct, it's not a far emotional throw for the former lone wolf. He might not have plamnned on going north originally, but without other connections, he could have fallen back on what he knew before. Now on Hawke and DA:I, there's a different kettle of fish. First, Varric is no doubt telling him/her to stay away from the Conclave for several reasons, so Hawke probably isn't hovering close at hand when the Temple goes BOOM! Even then, the Breach is 'closed' fairly quickly (I doubt much word gets out that its really not fixed fixed yet), so there's not much reason for Hawke to be rushing to Haven. Even if Hawke was feeling that way, she/he would have to cover hundreds of leagues of space going through Templar-Mage battles and random Fade Rifts to do so. That takes a lot of time. I personally interpret the fact that Hawke is at Skyhold by the beginning of Act 2 to prove that he/she WAS trying to reach the area soon after the Breach was spotted. As always with my speculations, YMMV.
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Post by necrowaif on May 25, 2021 17:32:56 GMT
In today’s comic-related tweet, we see that Shirallas has become SWOLErallas
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Post by nunziodefilippis on May 25, 2021 17:35:16 GMT
I don't take anything all that personally if I can avoid it. So no worries there.
To me, the ending of DA 2 was clear - they went their separate ways. The Fellowship, so to speak, was broken. Only Hawke's LI stayed with him/her (only to be left behind during Inquisition), and probably only Aveline stayed in Kirkwall. Varric may have stayed tied to Kirkwall, but the previous comics make it clear, eventually he wasn't actually there.
Sebastian goes to Starkhaven (and may have a desire to invade Kirkwall, depending on the choices at the end of DA 2). Anders is either dead, with Hawke, or gone. Isabella is off getting a fleet and a title. So Fenris goes to free slaves in Tevinter. It's unclear where Merrill goes, but the implication is that she does go.
Now, the fact that years later, Merrill is in Kirkwall, doesn't change the breaking up of the group - she probably returned. And the fact that Varric and Isabella go on an adventure together elsewhere doesn't lead to the group being together for anyone else. Varric's return to Kirkwall as Viscount may make it an ideal place for the group to reunite. And who knows? Maybe they will. But none of that changes the fact that the group disbanded.
So I don't think any writers were inconsistent, any more than talking about the loss of your friend group after college is inconsistent with reconnecting with them years later. And the friend who is too upset to attend the reunion? That person definitely doesn't think that some of the group reconnecting makes up for the breakup. Especially if he doesn't know about it.
I get assuming that Hawke should be a bigger part of DA:I, but Varric kept the secrets because Cassandra took him prisoner, and he wasn't going to feed Hawke to her, and he didn't know what she was dealing with had anything to do with Corypheus. Hawke was doing something else, and keeping Hawke safe from Cassandra seemed the right call.
Why Hawke took off after the Wardens...? That one, I'm not sure about. Why Hawke had to leave their LI to do it? That, I get. Hawke has seen too many people die. They may not be able to resist getting pulled into stuff like the Warden issue (and eventually Corypheus), but they don't want to lose anyone else to their choices.
But just as I get Hawke deciding that, I get why Hawke's LI may decide "that's enough for me." Especially Fenris, who as a former slave, may resent the hell out of having his choices taken away.
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Post by wright1978 on May 25, 2021 18:30:26 GMT
I can accept the band breaking up after da2, even just about accept hawke’s terrible selfish decision to run off on their own to deal with wardens. It’s trespassers treatment of hawke that really infuriates me. Instead of letting return to their LI they shoehorn them into being varric’s underling in Kirkwall.
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Post by nunziodefilippis on May 25, 2021 18:35:52 GMT
just one day to gooooaaaaAAAAAAAA Um... what did I just watch? (I mean, it was kinda awesome, but I am so confused)
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Post by gervaise21 on May 25, 2021 18:42:14 GMT
It’s trespassers treatment of hawke that really infuriates me. Instead of letting return to their LI they shoehorn them into being varric’s underling in Kirkwall. And failed to explain exactly what they've been doing these last 2-3 years since they left us after Adamant. To be honest, I've never been sure if those jokey words from Varric about it were meant to be taken as true (which would be odd considering there is no sign of anyone from the south turning up at Weisshaupt in Last Flight) or whether they never ended up there at all but went back to Kirkwall. I'm hoping that they will pick up the Warden plot from the DAI epilogue again in DA4, which is likely considering the amount of focus they have given to the Wardens in concept art and other stories, but clearly it won't involve Hawke or whichever other person went north to report matters.
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Post by necrowaif on May 25, 2021 18:50:00 GMT
After you go to the Western Approach and interrupt the ritual Erimond was performing as a test run, you can return to Skyhold and find Hawke and Varric chatting outside of the war room and Hawke says something to the effect of "the Inquisitor is ... just who we need." From my perspective, that was Hawke realizing that they DON'T need to be to the hero in this situation, because the Inquisitor is already up to the task of stopping the Breach and defeating Corypheus. The Wardens at Weisshaupt still need to be warned just in case, but the situation is in good hands otherwise. just one day to gooooaaaaAAAAAAAA Um... what did I just watch? (I mean, it was kinda awesome, but I am so confused) knowyourmeme.com/memes/big-enough
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Post by gervaise21 on May 25, 2021 18:53:21 GMT
I get why Hawke's LI may decide "that's enough for me." Especially Fenris, who as a former slave, may resent the hell out of having his choices taken away. Well Fenris stayed around and in touch long enough that Varric knew where to contact him if you leave Hawke in the Fade, so I'd assume he didn't actually head off north until after that. So if you didn't leave Hawke in the Fade, why wouldn't they get back together again? I'm sorry but I'm never going to agree with what they did with Hawke in relation to a romanced Fenris in DAI. It did mean that you were no longer role playing your Hawke but just acting the part of the writer's chosen version Hawke. My Hawke would never have left Fenris behind unless that was his choice. All water under the bridge now since I don't expect to see Hawke again. So far as Fenris in the comic series is concerned, that is a different world state to my original canon Hawke and I can live with that. To be honest, my original canon Hawke probably would have been better placed in the Exalted March DLC that never was. There I would have got to marry Fenris in the end, which would have been in keeping with their character. I'm inclined to go with a different Hawke for my world state going forward, who didn't romance Fenris and only just avoided having him turn on them at the end of DA2. That would then fit with the sentiments that Fenris expressed in Blue Wraith.
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Post by nunziodefilippis on May 25, 2021 19:37:51 GMT
Well Fenris stayed around and in touch long enough that Varric knew where to contact him if you leave Hawke in the Fade, so I'd assume he didn't actually head off north until after that. So if you didn't leave Hawke in the Fade, why wouldn't they get back together again? Well, honestly, the fact that Varric knows where to send letters doesn't actually mean much. No matter what your world state, if Fenris is alive, Varric says early in Inquisition that Fenris is freeing slaves in Tevinter. That means, romanced or not, Fenris is already in Tevinter when the game begins. Logically speaking, Fenris cannot have a clear mailing address in Tevinter. Which means Varric has drop spots, or contacts, or knows of the place where Fenris crashes when not elsewhere freeing slaves. And that is where he can contact Fenris as needed. So really Varric knows where to leave word for Fenris. How long it takes Fenris to get that word would depend on where in the Imperium he was and who he was fighting. That does not guarantee Fenris reading anything quickly, nor any response once he does. Even if Fenris isn't mad, it hardly means that Varric is "in touch" with him. Just that he can send him stuff that he's reasonably certain Fenris can get to at some point. I'm sorry but I'm never going to agree with what they did with Hawke in relation to a romanced Fenris in DAI. It did mean that you were no longer role playing your Hawke but just acting the part of the writer's chosen version Hawke. My Hawke would never have left Fenris behind unless that was his choice. All water under the bridge now since I don't expect to see Hawke again. So far as Fenris in the comic series is concerned, that is a different world state to my original canon Hawke and I can live with that. To be honest, my original canon Hawke probably would have been better placed in the Exalted March DLC that never was. There I would have got to marry Fenris in the end, which would have been in keeping with their character. I'm inclined to go with a different Hawke for my world state going forward, who didn't romance Fenris and only just avoided having him turn on them at the end of DA2. That would then fit with the sentiments that Fenris expressed in Blue Wraith. The real challenge is that Hawke is a PC in DA2 and an NPC in DA:I. And while they can try to accomodate most interpretations of Hawke, they can't cover all (as every person who played a Blood Mage Hawke can attest). And I think the key to wrapping your head around that difference is to accept Varric's role as an unreliable narrator. He starts DA2 with a fanciful version of Hawke's escape from Ferelden. He ends the game saying he doesn't know were Hawke is. Both of these end up being lies. Which means anything in between might be, too. Or at least embellished or altered. So it is reasonable to extrapolate (even if very worrying for the player at times) that the Hawke we played is Varric's "writer's version" of Hawke. And the person we meet in DA:I may be similar to that writer's version, but not 100% the same. How much difference needs to be covered by the unreliable narrator trick depends on the specifics of your playthrough and head canon. While that may not make everyone happy, it does mean that the differences between how you see Hawke and how (s)he ended up in DA:I aren't a writer's error.
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Post by QuizzyBunny on May 25, 2021 19:41:29 GMT
I get why Hawke's LI may decide "that's enough for me." Especially Fenris, who as a former slave, may resent the hell out of having his choices taken away. Well Fenris stayed around and in touch long enough that Varric knew where to contact him if you leave Hawke in the Fade, so I'd assume he didn't actually head off north until after that. So if you didn't leave Hawke in the Fade, why wouldn't they get back together again? I'm sorry but I'm never going to agree with what they did with Hawke in relation to a romanced Fenris in DAI. It did mean that you were no longer role playing your Hawke but just acting the part of the writer's chosen version Hawke. My Hawke would never have left Fenris behind unless that was his choice. All water under the bridge now since I don't expect to see Hawke again. So far as Fenris in the comic series is concerned, that is a different world state to my original canon Hawke and I can live with that. To be honest, my original canon Hawke probably would have been better placed in the Exalted March DLC that never was. There I would have got to marry Fenris in the end, which would have been in keeping with their character. I'm inclined to go with a different Hawke for my world state going forward, who didn't romance Fenris and only just avoided having him turn on them at the end of DA2. That would then fit with the sentiments that Fenris expressed in Blue Wraith. I have to agree, my Hawke might be okay with leaving Fenris behind for some time to deal with something they feared might result in their LI's death (like in DAI), but breaking them up completely outside of my control when I know there's a whole dlc for people who romanced Morrigan to get together with her again... honestly, the idea of this leaves a really bad taste in my mouth. I sincerely hope this ends somewhere where I can head-canon that they got back together, otherwise I'm going to be really disappointed.
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Post by gervaise21 on May 25, 2021 19:55:40 GMT
Varric says early in Inquisition that Fenris is freeing slaves in Tevinter. That means, romanced or not, Fenris is already in Tevinter when the game begins. No, Varric says he is fighting Tevinter slavers who came south to prey on refugees from the fighting (in the mage/Templar war). So he pretty much picked up where we left off in DA2 because there we were constantly fighting slavers from Tevinter in the Freemarches who were preying on the vulnerable. Anyway that would explain why Varric knew to get in touch with Fenris because he was still around in the south near Varric's contacts and may even have touched base with Kirkwall from time to time when in pursuit of his quarry. Now if Fenris had said to Hawke that he thought they ought to focus on protecting the innocent from slavers rather than involving themselves in Warden business and they fell out over it, that would make sense. Hawke might even have made up an excuse in their own mind to explain his absence rather than admit to the real reason. To be honest, I think that would have been a better use of their time than involving themselves in Warden business. After all, it hardly turned out well the first time. Then presumably once the mage/Templar business had been dealt with, maybe the slavers went into retreat and Fenris followed. That would also work for me.
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Post by Solas on May 25, 2021 20:07:13 GMT
just one day to gooooaaaaAAAAAAAA Um... what did I just watch? (I mean, it was kinda awesome, but I am so confused) a visual and audio representation of my hype for the next issue
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nunziodefilippis
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Post by nunziodefilippis on May 25, 2021 20:11:55 GMT
Varric says early in Inquisition that Fenris is freeing slaves in Tevinter. That means, romanced or not, Fenris is already in Tevinter when the game begins. No, Varric says he is fighting Tevinter slavers who came south to prey on refugees from the fighting (in the mage/Templar war). So he pretty much picked up where we left off in DA2 because there we were constantly fighting slavers from Tevinter in the Freemarches who were preying on the vulnerable. Anyway that would explain why Varric knew to get in touch with Fenris because he was still around in the south near Varric's contacts and may even have touched base with Kirkwall from time to time when in pursuit of his quarry. Now if Fenris had said to Hawke that he thought they ought to focus on protecting the innocent from slavers rather than involving themselves in Warden business and they fell out over it, that would make sense. Hawke might even have made up an excuse in their own mind to explain his absence rather than admit to the real reason. To be honest, I think that would have been a better use of their time than involving themselves in Warden business. After all, it hardly turned out well the first time. Then presumably once the mage/Templar business had been dealt with, maybe the slavers went into retreat and Fenris followed. That would also work for me. I stand corrected, though the larger point is somewhat still in place - he's out fighting, and likely not living in the same house in Kirkwall. He may be more reachable, again depending on where he's fighting. As to why they fell out, that would be a way to smooth over the differences. I think the "unreliable narrator" storytelling device is likely the one in play, because it covers any number of differences (Hawke's views on Blood Magic, their departure from their LI, and anything else that arises). Unfortunately, the Hawke we encounter in DA:I is one who left a love interest behind and then volunteered to be left in the Fade. And since that is the one we see through objective eyes instead of through the narrative Varric is crafting, it's likely to be the real Hawke at play. And that Hawke is risking any romance from DA2 with that behavior (and obviously may die). I have played DA:I several times and never leave Hawke in the Fade. I could never do that to my LI (usually Fenris or Merrill). But I sometimes wonder if I should let Hawke die. Again, I'm not mad like some of you are. But I see Hawke through new eyes having to really get into the head of Fenris. Leaving Fenris behind because "he would have died to protect me" is so patronizing and infantilizing that I sometimes think that Fenris SHOULDN'T forgive Hawke and reunite afterwards. And I think it would be easier for Fenris to forgive Hawke if Hawke were dead than it would be if Hawke were alive, knowing that this could (and likely would) happen again the next time a big world event called for Hawke's involvement. But fortunately, I don't decide the Bioware official canon. I just work with what I'm given.
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lk13
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Post by lk13 on May 25, 2021 20:15:06 GMT
Well Fenris stayed around and in touch long enough that Varric knew where to contact him if you leave Hawke in the Fade, so I'd assume he didn't actually head off north until after that. So if you didn't leave Hawke in the Fade, why wouldn't they get back together again? I'm sorry but I'm never going to agree with what they did with Hawke in relation to a romanced Fenris in DAI. It did mean that you were no longer role playing your Hawke but just acting the part of the writer's chosen version Hawke. My Hawke would never have left Fenris behind unless that was his choice. All water under the bridge now since I don't expect to see Hawke again. So far as Fenris in the comic series is concerned, that is a different world state to my original canon Hawke and I can live with that. To be honest, my original canon Hawke probably would have been better placed in the Exalted March DLC that never was. There I would have got to marry Fenris in the end, which would have been in keeping with their character. I'm inclined to go with a different Hawke for my world state going forward, who didn't romance Fenris and only just avoided having him turn on them at the end of DA2. That would then fit with the sentiments that Fenris expressed in Blue Wraith. I have to agree, my Hawke might be okay with leaving Fenris behind for some time to deal with something they feared might result in their LI's death (like in DAI), but breaking them up completely outside of my control when I know there's a whole dlc for people who romanced Morrigan to get together with her again... honestly, the idea of this leaves a really bad taste in my mouth. I sincerely hope this ends somewhere where I can head-canon that they got back together, otherwise I'm going to be really disappointed. It's not just for the romance, though - Morrigan was basically the only character from Origins which didn't get her own "closure dialogue" at the end of the main story. And considering how the game ends, with the whole Dark Ritual decision, you can understand why that closure is needed. Plus, it set up a nice introduction to Eluvians (for everyone, and not just those who picked the Dalish origin) and "ancient elven" magics. Meanwhile, DA2 characters don't really have their own post-game "closure dialogue" or slide-show screen, I assume for lack of time. It's not just Fenris that'd need that Witch Hunt treatment, but ideally the whole companion cast. At least this means that there's some more space for DA-related media to pick up on each character's story with more freedom.
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