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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 26, 2021 18:45:22 GMT
Hey all, Not gonna respond to every person's reaction. Just the one, because I've been trying to reassure Hanako for a while now... Just finished the chapter. Did not like it at all, and it kind of ruined a lot of what came before that I did. So much for Vaea staying unique. She just immediately decided to drop her rule. Shit. I'm not certain it's fair to say that what made Vaea unique was a 100% no killing rule, so much as an attitude about killing that was different from most other characters. That attitude hasn't changed. You originally said your fear was that killing/Ser Aaron's death would make her a dark figure who was okay killing people. That isn't what happened. Her immediate response to killing was to make sure that the plan to save the dragon still was able to come to fruition. That is meant as a reaffirmation of her stance. She will try to avoid killing whenever she can.
But she couldn't avoid it with Nenealeus. He was controlling the dragon, and if he doesn't die, the heroes don't win and a lot of people die. Marius was willing to DIE to make sure that didn't happen. And when Tessa was unable to deliver the killing blow, Vaea knew it had to be her (the only other one who could sneak up on Nenealeus while Marius let himself get nearly killed).
It wasn't meant to suggest that she immediately decided to drop anything. It was meant to suggest that in the heat of battle you may not have a choice. She recognized that, and then immediately set out to prove (via the dragon) that in most cases you DO have a choice, even if others don't see it.
I'm sorry you feel this ruins the story or Vaea. But this is what we've been building towards with her since Knight Errant. She was always meant to have her chance at being a Knight. And being a Knight means that all options have to be on the table. Being Vaea means she will always look for other options first. There are quite a few other characters in the franchise who have a similar attitude as her, but unlike them she was willing to act on that attitude instead of toss it aside. someone mentioned Merrill before, she is also an elf that would prefer not to fight or kill yet has killed hundreds. Or Francesca, at least how I interpreted what was established about her like how she preferred her magic being used to create than destroy. So I know it's not 100% what makes her unique, but it was a large part of it. The only character in the franchise that feels that way and sticks to it now remains Josephine, but Vaea was even more unique with that since she was a combatant. That scenario was just an example. I will say that yes her doing it in defense was really nice at least so I can't fault her, but it still doesn't really help when how I saw that fight there were choices (such as dealing a non-lethal move letting Marius or Fenris get the kill if anything to let them get that catharsis). And I get how all this was building up to this moment, but that makes it hurt more not less to be honest. Still, I appreciate you explaining things trying to make it better.
Since you are here, I sent a PM asking a different question. I'm guessing you not answering it means the answer is no?
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Post by nunziodefilippis on May 26, 2021 18:49:27 GMT
Not gonna respond to every person's reaction. As you'll see in the next issue, Red Wraith Shirallas will interact with the Red Lyrium, his markings, and even the sword, very differently than Fenris does with his engravings. I'll hold off on explaining until you see Issue 3. Happy to dive deeper after that, but hopefully the issue will showcase the differences. Ready to start diving yet? Yep. The way we wrote this, because Red Lyrium is tainted, the Red Lyrium weapon does not connect the Wraith to the Fade at all. So there is no phasing ability for the Red Wraith. Instead, the Red Lyrium infects the host in a symbiotic way. The weapon is the manifestation of the Lyrium, and it and the Wraith form a symbiotic circle. Each feeds the other. And each then draws power from every attempt to destroy it, so both become more and more powerful over time.
The only way to stop the symbiosis was to break the bond early, and then destroy both before they could seek each other out.
At higher power levels, doing this would be very difficult, so separating them in an early fight was the only chance the team had.
And as brutal as Fenris' reaction was (and it was a move of anger, not of strategy), the team was lucky he killed Shirallas. Because eventually Shirallas would have figured out how to call the weapon back to himself.
That's what we were going for. Now most of this is theoretical, and what is there is implied, not stated, so Bioware can (and maybe will) define it differently in future games.
But to us, Red Lyrium isn't connected to the Fade in the same way Lyrium is, so it gives a very different sort of power.
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Post by necrowaif on May 26, 2021 19:51:46 GMT
And that's that. In keeping with most Dragon Age media, a decidedly bittersweet ending. I guess anyone who had Ser Aaron in the deadpool wins a shiny nickel.
I will say that I am disappointed that Shirallas' powers weren't a bit more flashy; I expected something along the lines of creating giant red lyrium spikes to shoot out of the ground or to turn other people into red lyrium statues, not a very limited healing factor. In fact, he seems weaker than Fenris, who got phasing powers from his markings.
I'm also not crazy about this trend of qunari simply letting mages go because they fought honourably or they made a bargain. The qunari infamously don't believe in making deals with bas. If Shirallas had killed more of them and they were simply forced to withdraw, that would have struck me as more believable.
And sadly, Marius and Tessa (who naturally had to get knocked out just so that Vaea could break her "no killing" rule) survived. Oh well, I guess that gives me a chance to kill them both in DA4.
I'm now curious what impact it would have had on the storyline if Ser Marquette had successfully recovered the journal from Starkhaven, or if Francesca's father had actually made it to the fortress along with the others. Regarding how this plays into the larger storyline ... ... I'm guessing that Tractus is the young Tevinter mage who went south to Nevarra with the idol in "Tevinter Nights." He allied with the Mortalitasi in order to cast a ritual to control the minds of the qunari. However, that whole effort went to hell, as Solas interrupted the ritual and literally tore Tractus apart.
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Post by gervaise21 on May 26, 2021 20:00:50 GMT
Yes, that makes perfect sense, thank you. It is what I suspected about red lyrium based off everything we have been told up to now.
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Post by Mithras on May 26, 2021 23:54:40 GMT
I have to admit, I did feel that Shirallas was killed too easy for a project that was meant to be the Imperium's trump card but it's understandable considering the limited number of pages the writers and artists have to work with. I do wonder how different Red Wraiths are from Grey Wardens. Ultimately, they seem to be drawing power from the same source, the Blight.
On another hand, I did love that opening page. I hadn't recognized Shirallas' vallaslin as belong to Elgar'nan's but I see why he'd choose the elven god of vengeance as his patron.
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Post by necrowaif on May 27, 2021 3:25:15 GMT
The more I think about it, the more the way they dealt with Shirallas doesn’t sit well with me. If all they had to do was separate Shirallas from the sword, couldn’t they just restrain him with Francesca’s plant tentacles like she did with the dragon and then cut off his hand? Or use Marius’ chain trick to disarm him as he did with Nenealeus? (Granted, he’s badly hurt, but he’s still standing.) Or just lop off Shirallas’ head and then pry the sword out of his hand while it was ... regrowing?
Did Aaron just want to die? I didn’t get the impression he was tired of living.
It just feels kind of pointless, like when Data needlessly sacrificed himself at the end of Star Trek: Nemesis because Brent Spiner felt he had aged out of the role. And it’s a damn shame, because the rest of the comic was pretty good.
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Post by yarus on May 27, 2021 4:02:59 GMT
The more I think about it, the more the way they dealt with Shirallas doesn’t sit well with me. If all they had to do was separate Shirallas from the sword, couldn’t they just restrain him with Francesca’s plant tentacles like she did with the dragon and then cut off his hand? Or use Marius’ chain trick to disarm him as he did with Nenealeus? (Granted, he’s badly hurt, but he’s still standing.) Or just lop off Shirallas’ head and then pry the sword out of his hand while it was ... regrowing?
Did Aaron just want to die? I didn’t get the impression he was tired of living.
It just feels kind of pointless, like Data needlessly sacrificing himself at the end of Star Trek: Nemesis because Brent Spiner felt he had aged out of the role. And it’s a damn shame, because the rest of the comic was pretty good. It's not just you. Shirallas's entire character and his relation to Fenris felt....mishandled, I suppose.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 27, 2021 5:33:34 GMT
The more I think about it, the more the way they dealt with Shirallas doesn’t sit well with me. If all they had to do was separate Shirallas from the sword, couldn’t they just restrain him with Francesca’s plant tentacles like she did with the dragon and then cut off his hand? Or use Marius’ chain trick to disarm him as he did with Nenealeus? (Granted, he’s badly hurt, but he’s still standing.) Or just lop off Shirallas’ head and then pry the sword out of his hand while it was ... regrowing?
Did Aaron just want to die? I didn’t get the impression he was tired of living.
It just feels kind of pointless, like when Data needlessly sacrificed himself at the end of Star Trek: Nemesis because Brent Spiner felt he had aged out of the role. And it’s a damn shame, because the rest of the comic was pretty good. Same reason why Vaea couldn't hit the gut she killed in a nonvital spot that stunned or crippled or distracted him, despite showing skill for such hits: So the movie can happen.
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Post by necrowaif on May 27, 2021 6:05:53 GMT
The more I think about it, the more the way they dealt with Shirallas doesn’t sit well with me. If all they had to do was separate Shirallas from the sword, couldn’t they just restrain him with Francesca’s plant tentacles like she did with the dragon and then cut off his hand? Or use Marius’ chain trick to disarm him as he did with Nenealeus? (Granted, he’s badly hurt, but he’s still standing.) Or just lop off Shirallas’ head and then pry the sword out of his hand while it was ... regrowing?
Did Aaron just want to die? I didn’t get the impression he was tired of living.
It just feels kind of pointless, like when Data needlessly sacrificed himself at the end of Star Trek: Nemesis because Brent Spiner felt he had aged out of the role. And it’s a damn shame, because the rest of the comic was pretty good. Same reason why Vaea couldn't hit the gut she killed in a nonvital spot that stunned or crippled or distracted him, despite showing skill for such hits: So the movie can happen. Speaking of which, this issue did make me think of that Pitch Meeting series from Screen Rant.
Producer: So now the heroes have to take down a red lyrium-empowered magekiller wielding a red lyrium sword like the one Meredith had? I bet that’s going to be tough!
Writer: Actually, it’s going to be super-easy. Barely an inconvenience!
Producer: Oh really?
Writer: Yeah, because the only super power he has is a healing factor that only works while he’s holding the sword.
Producer: Oh, I thought he would have been able to do more than that.
Writer: Afraid not! And so Ser Aaron is going to get the sword away by being impaled and falling off a cliff.
Producer: Oh no!
Writer: Yeah, and then Fenris is going to chop off Shirallas’ head, and then the fight’s over.
Producer: Couldn’t they have found some other way of disarming Shirallas?
Writer: Well, this way Ser Aaron and Vaea can have this really tearful goodbye, and he can give her a letter requesting King Alistair make her a Knight.
Producer: Oh, unlikely elven knights are tight!
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Post by Solas on May 27, 2021 6:07:20 GMT
the coffin looked broken to me not intact? anyway I really enjoyed this comic I liked it a lot
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 27, 2021 6:19:05 GMT
Same reason why Vaea couldn't hit the gut she killed in a nonvital spot that stunned or crippled or distracted him, despite showing skill for such hits: So the movie can happen. Speaking of which, this issue did make me think of that Pitch Meeting series from Screen Rant.
Producer: So now the heroes have to take down a red lyrium-empowered magekiller wielding a red lyrium sword like the one Meredith had? I bet that’s going to be tough!
Writer: Actually, it’s going to be super-easy. Barely an inconvenience!
Producer: Oh really?
Writer: Yeah, because the only super power he has is a healing factor that only works while he’s holding the sword.
Producer: Oh, I thought he would have been able to do more than that.
Writer: Afraid not! And so Ser Aaron is going to get the sword away by being impaled and falling off a cliff.
Producer: Oh no!
Writer: Yeah, and then Fenris is going to chop off Shirallas’ head, and then the fight’s over.
Producer: Couldn’t they have found some other way of disarming Shirallas, like tying him up with Francesca’s plant tentacles?
Writer: Well, this way Ser Aaron and Vaea can have this really tearful goodbye, and he can give her a letter requesting King Alistair make her a Knight.
Producer: Oh, elven knights are tight! Wowwowwow wow.
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Post by Heimdall on May 27, 2021 12:24:28 GMT
I ultimately liked the comic, but I’m left thinking that this whole series had more character relationships and dynamics than could really be done justice in just three issues.
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Post by midnight tea on May 27, 2021 14:24:26 GMT
Hmmm... I know this is not the same design, but I can't help to wonder whether the last issue the way to 'even out' all possible Inquisition playthroughs, so that in each possible timeline a certain sword is with Inquisition?
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Post by Black Magic Ritual on May 27, 2021 14:54:15 GMT
I ultimately liked the comic, but I’m left thinking that this whole series had more character relationships and dynamics than could really be done justice in just three issues. Agreed, I'd have offed Marius and Tessa along with Aaron in the final battle, since Vaea, Fenris and Fran are going their separate ways from them at this point. I wonder now if King Alistair is going to appear in the next comic to set up his apperance for DA4, certainly seems that way now that Vaea is heading in that direction along with the party.
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Post by dadithinkimgay on May 27, 2021 15:43:17 GMT
I assume that Fenris, Francesca, Autumn, and Vaea are not likely to be in DA4 as they're traveling south. Tessa and Marius staying up north makes me think they'll make an appearance in the next game. Matthew Goldman also quoted the author on twitter when he shared an image of Tessa, saying "this isn't the end, but the beginning," or something to that effect. I have to say, I didn't particularly like this ending. It felt rushed, and Ser Aaron's death seemed forced. I was expecting a lot more from The Red Wraith. Shirallas became this fascinating beast with a unique power, only to die quickly. It would have been interesting to see the effects of the symbiotic relationship between the lyrium and Shirallas and how it affected his mind. With Meredith, she kept pulling and pulling power until it was too late, which showed the desperation of her character. Shirallas just went beserk and died. Still, I enjoyed the story, and I understand they didn't have a lot of pages to work with. Thank you to everyone who made this comic. What's interesting to me is that Dark Fortress and TN clearly illustrate that Solas is watching the red lyrium idol. But who is he not watching if he's watching the red lyrium idol? We have discussed on this forum how our protagonist will evade Solas, as he an OP god who can watch his enemies from The Fade. What we've seen of Solas vigilance from The Fade, and god-like intervention, all directly relate to The Idol. That doesn't necesarrily mean he isn't watching out for other people - but it does prove that Solas can be distracted should The Red Lyrium be tossed around Northern Thedas as it has been. That could be where our new protagonist comes in. The Inquisition distracts him with the idol business, while our PC rallies from the sidelines.
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Post by telanadas on May 28, 2021 7:13:18 GMT
Not only is the sarcophagus still intact, it’s directly under a fortress now occupied by The Qunari. That’ll end well. I have to wonder why Solas even cares about the idol. He’s started his ritual without it, so I don’t think he needs it to complete it. It’s also blighted with red lyrium, which he doesn’t fuck with. Me too. Solas could just be using it as a distraction to keep everyone occupied on the wrong thing (streisand effect). Maybe it really is just a sentimental item which inadvertently got corrupted by red lyrium while he was asleep. Once it got out into the wild people corrupted it into something that it was never meant to be for, like turning it into a weapon.
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Post by gervaise21 on May 28, 2021 7:28:22 GMT
Me too. Solas could just be using it as a distraction to keep everyone occupied on the wrong thing (streisand effect). Maybe it really is just a sentimental item which inadvertently got corrupted by red lyrium while he was asleep. Once it got out into the wild people corrupted it into something that it was never meant to be for, like turning it into a weapon. I think it may be true that he doesn't necessarily need it for his ritual, although in the Dread Wolf Take You (Mortalitai's tale) it does seem as though the idol could perhaps alter or interfere with his ritual (or its outcome) and that is why he was so anxious to recover it. There is something odd about the idol and it almost seems to have a life of its own but I think any qualities it has of becoming a weapon was part of its original creation, not something that happened through recent misuse. I do wonder if it was the weapon that was used to kill Mythal and that is why it was not the idol itself that he was thinking about when he stroked it but Mythal. Anyway, it is clear that the idol is going to be integral to the plot going forward and Solas will be aware of anyone who has it in their possession.
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Post by Solas on May 28, 2021 7:30:38 GMT
Maybe he doesn't need it for the ritual or for the next step of the ritual, but it's the only thing that could stop the ritual At this stage also I'm wondering if in BioWare (in BioWare, not the comic writing team [who are great]), the purpose of the idol in the in-world past, or its capabilities, or its role in the post-Inquisition plot and the DA4 plot going forward - if in BioWare it may be the case that something along those lines has changed somewhat.
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Post by Iddy on May 28, 2021 18:30:50 GMT
Maybe I'm just slow, but I'm not sure why was Daenarius Jr taking credit for everything our heroes just did. I didn't notice any pulling strings from the shadows.
Vaea being knighted is pretty cool in theory, though I don't remember her being particularly serious or passionate about knighthood. I always had the impression that her being a squire was just an affectionate title given by Ser Aaron. And I don't know if I can see her in a full time job with little room for adventures and rogue shenanigans.
Anyhow, I must agree with what others have said: It would've been great to see all these relationships being fleshed out in a longer series.
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Post by necrowaif on May 28, 2021 18:44:11 GMT
Maybe I'm just slow, but I'm not sure why was Daenarius Jr taking credit for everything our heroes just did. I didn't notice any pulling strings from the shadows. I'm not really sure what you mean by him "taking credit" for the heroes' efforts. All Tractus says to Marquette is "I guess things went to shit, huh?", followed by "Did you take the idol? Give it to me or I'll kill you." (I'm paraphrasing, obviously.)
Or are you referring to the last page of Marius and Tessa patting themselves on the back for basically doing nothing? They have a habit of doing that.
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Post by Iddy on May 28, 2021 19:19:40 GMT
Maybe I'm just slow, but I'm not sure why was Daenarius Jr taking credit for everything our heroes just did. I didn't notice any pulling strings from the shadows. I'm not really sure what you mean by him "taking credit" for the heroes' efforts. All Tractus says to Marquette is "I guess things went to shit, huh?", followed by "Did you take the idol? Give it to me or I'll kill you." (I'm paraphrasing, obviously.)
Or are you referring to the last page of Marius and Tessa patting themselves on the back for basically doing nothing? They have a habit of doing that. No, no, I meant that little chat with Solas. In what way did they help Vaea's team?
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Post by necrowaif on May 28, 2021 19:42:18 GMT
I'm not really sure what you mean by him "taking credit" for the heroes' efforts. All Tractus says to Marquette is "I guess things went to shit, huh?", followed by "Did you take the idol? Give it to me or I'll kill you." (I'm paraphrasing, obviously.)
Or are you referring to the last page of Marius and Tessa patting themselves on the back for basically doing nothing? They have a habit of doing that. No, no, I meant that little chat with Solas. In what way did they help Vaea's team? Tractus wasn't chatting with Solas. All of those word balloons on the final page are Marius and Tessa talking about how things ended up.
Tessa: We did well. Marius: We got lucky. Tessa: We stopped a red lyrium-infused magekiller, defeated Nenealeus, crushed the Venatori and defeated a dragon. Tessa: And with only one casualty. We did well. Marius: For now. Tessa: For now.
Meanwhile, Solas is simply watching Tractus stagger away with the red lyrium idol via the eluvian. They aren't communicating.
As you said, it wouldn't really make sense for Tractus and Solas to "take credit" for the heroes' efforts.
(Though Marius and Tessa can hardly pat themselves on the back, since the useless fucks barely did anything.)
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by gervaise21 on May 28, 2021 19:58:46 GMT
Meanwhile, Solas is simply watching Tractus stagger away with the red lyrium idol via the eluvian. Hold on a minute, did he actually use an eluvian? So how did that work? I thought Solas had control of the entire network now, so why did he open it up and, assuming it was to allow the idol to get away from the Qunari, why didn't he then trap him in the network and retrieve the item? If Tractus was using a section of the network independent of Solas, does that mean we may be doing the same next game? Since the idol allegedly ended up in the Grand Necropolis in Nevarra, does that mean they are part of that network?
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Scribbles
185
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Nov 17, 2024 22:23:52 GMT
31,578
Hanako Ikezawa
22,991
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 28, 2021 20:00:33 GMT
No, no, I meant that little chat with Solas. In what way did they help Vaea's team? Tractus wasn't chatting with Solas. All of those word balloons on the final page are Marius and Tessa talking about how things ended up.
Tessa: We did well. Marius: We got lucky. Tessa: We stopped a red lyrium-infused magekiller, defeated Nenealeus, crushed the Venatori and defeated a dragon. Tessa: And with only one casualty. We did well. Marius: For now. Tessa: For now.
Meanwhile, Solas is simply watching Tractus stagger away with the red lyrium idol via the eluvian. They aren't communicating.
As you said, it wouldn't really make sense for Tractus and Solas to "take credit" for the heroes' efforts.
(Though Marius and Tessa can hardly pat themselves on the back, since the useless fucks barely did anything.) Well they did something. They ruined a big part of what made Vara unique as a character since Tessa was useless and couldn’t dodge. And wow they really were callous about Aaron’s death when you put it that way. Figures the ones most likely to be in the game are my least favorite.
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Nov 18, 2024 14:03:42 GMT
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necrowaif
2,095
Mar 24, 2020 19:57:15 GMT
March 2020
necrowaif
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
LameZombieHunt
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Post by necrowaif on May 28, 2021 20:00:53 GMT
Meanwhile, Solas is simply watching Tractus stagger away with the red lyrium idol via the eluvian. Hold on a minute, did he actually use an eluvian? So how did that work? I thought Solas had control of the entire network now, so why did he open it up and, assuming it was to allow the idol to get away from the Qunari, why didn't he then trap him in the network and retrieve the item? If Tractus was using a section of the network independent of Solas, does that mean we may be doing the same next game? Since the idol allegedly ended up in the Grand Necropolis in Nevarra, does that mean they are part of that network? Eluvians can be used for long-range communication and remote viewing IN ADDITION to travel. Eluvian literally means "seeing glass" in Elven.
Even though they couldn't access the Crossroads, the Tevinters used stolen eluvians for communication.
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