nunziodefilippis
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Post by nunziodefilippis on Mar 4, 2021 7:46:15 GMT
Wow, I stirred up a bit of a hornet's nest here. My apologies for that.
As I see it, Hawke goes where the trouble is. And when things happen in Haven, Hawke is already trying to help on a different problem: the warden issue. I always assumed Hawke stayed on that problem because (s)he knew it probably connected to the giant hole in the sky, so (s)he already was helping in her/his own way.
As for Varric, I'm sad to hear some don't like him. He definitely always tracked as my various Hawkes' best friend. And his reasons for lying to Cassandra were valid. He had no way of knowing how she would have treated Hawke if (s)he showed up to help. Conscripting Hawke and forcing her/him to join the Inquisition may have seemed to Varric like something that Hawke (who was effectively an endentured servant when first arriving in Kirkwall) would have resented.
My only point was that Hawke left to look into the Wardens and left her/his lover behind. I get why Hawke would do it - whoever romanced Hawke had likely been pulled into enough conflict to last a lifetime. But it had to hurt.
I do get that maybe some people's Hawkes would not have volunteered to stay in the Fade, though. I don't think I ever played a Hawke who didn't put herself or himself at the heart of the problem and try to solve the problem him/herself. So it always felt right to me. It was a reminder that loving Hawke is a sucker's deal... but it felt right.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 4, 2021 8:00:37 GMT
nunziodefilippis No need to apologize. It was interesting to read how you took from the games for how to write the comics, even if there are disagreements about how the games handled certain things. In other news, we’re now less than four weeks from the first chapter of Dark Fortress! I’m excited/nervous.
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Post by samurailink on Mar 4, 2021 18:57:58 GMT
I'm hoping whoever it is that's in charge of the decision decides to keep the comic series running. While I wasn't personally huge on Magekiller or Deception the comics have always helped tide me over for the next game. Blue Wraith and especially Knight Errant are some of my favorite stories across the franchise. I've grown quite attached to the party.
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Post by gervaise21 on Mar 4, 2021 19:34:57 GMT
nunziodefilippis No need to apologize. It was interesting to read how you took from the games for how to write the comics, even if there are disagreements about how the games handled certain things. I agree that it is interesting having your insights into how you see the characters even if that doesn't necessarily align with our own. Luckily most of the characters you are working with in the comics are entirely your own. I like them a lot.
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Mar 4, 2021 19:53:44 GMT
Umm, yeah. I'm not having the same issues with Varric as Hanako (my main beef is his claim about his neutralitiy on the mage-templars issue, which he quite actively disproves in both endings), but the character-we-are-supposed-to-like trope is very strong with him. DAI opens up the boxes badly, and Varric is in the "supposed to like" one (together with Cassandra, Cullen and a few lesser examples, I guess) while there are pretty clear examples we are not supposed to like, such as Sera or Vivienne. Well on frienship he supports Hawke as friends regardless what he / she chose and rival first he is the game narrator so he has to be in the party and second even on rival Varric finds Hawke too interessing to not follow him / her. For his neutrality in DA 2 i think he as dwarven civilian he just tired about this issue.
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Post by Buckeldemon on Mar 5, 2021 9:39:40 GMT
Well on frienship he supports Hawke as friends regardless what he / she chose and rival first he is the game narrator so he has to be in the party and second even on rival Varric finds Hawke too interessing to not follow him / her. For his neutrality in DA 2 i think he as dwarven civilian he just tired about this issue. Varric during the mage ending: "I don't know if this is the right thing, Hawke. Helping dangerous people running amok." The mages aren't running amok, Meredith does. Also Varric, during the templar ending: "That's the right thing, Hawke. Defending our way of life and innocents." Yeah, Varric, by helping a dangerous person to run amok and killing (largely) innocent circle mages for a crime commited by an unaffilliated apostate. Also, Kirkwall's political conditions of Act3 (a.k.a. templar police state) aren't really that attractive for a mage Hawke/ a Hawke caring at least somewhat about a mage companion. So no points for that way of life either.
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Post by gervaise21 on Mar 5, 2021 12:25:10 GMT
I'd weigh in on the Varric issue but it doesn't really belong on this thread. I'll happily debate the merits of Varric as a friend on his character thread. (Hint: I don't unreservedly love him like some people and was rather disappointed that he seems likely to feature in the next game again as my forced friend.) nunziodefilippis; One thing I would be interested to know though was which side your canon Hawke usually supported in Act 3 and why?
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nunziodefilippis
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Post by nunziodefilippis on Mar 7, 2021 19:15:09 GMT
nunziodefilippis; One thing I would be interested to know though was which side your canon Hawke usually supported in Act 3 and why? I've played both, but almost all of the times (like 11 of the 12 times I've played DA 2) I side with the Mages at the end, and for most, I'm with them all the way through (a couple of times I was pro-Templar early, but sided with the mages in the end). And the only saves I import into Inquisition are the ones where Hawke sided with the mages. It's very hard for me to side with the Templars, especially in Act 3. I think it's because while there is abuse on both sides, the abuse on the Templars' side is officially sanctioned by Meredith, and the abuse on the Mage side often comes from apostates or as a response to Templar abuse. Even the end choice - using the Rite on the Circle mages in response to an action by Anders, who is not in the Circle - demonstrates this. Like I said, it's very hard for me to side with the Templars. It's possible - because Orsino clearly knows about the experiments that kill Hawke's mother, and there are notes in that dungeon signed "O" that make it possible to see that coming. But it's still a stretch for me to punish all the Circle mages for the actions of Orsino, even assuming that Hawke is able to know Orsino is somehow complicit (which is still a big assumption). The other issue is that if you're a mage, siding with the Templars seems self-loathing. And if you're not, your relationship with Bethany always seems to be strong, so siding with the Templars seems like you don't trust or respect her (or your father). That's me, though. Your mileage may vary.
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Post by necrowaif on Mar 7, 2021 23:29:13 GMT
The narrative definitely supports Hawke siding with the mages regardless of class, since they’re basically innocents in the whole affair and Hawke should be inclined to help mages based on their family background.
The one thing that might have changed my decision to defend the mages is if Hawke could have learned that Orsino had assisted Quentin in his crimes with the goal of gaining a weapon against Meredith. (Perhaps Meredith could have even revealed the truth during that confrontation in Lowtown and Orsino could have confirmed it out of shame.)
That would have made that choice much more difficult, as allying with the mages and you’re forced to let an accessory to your mother’s murder go free.
Oh well. The road not taken.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 8, 2021 0:21:22 GMT
Yeah, while some of the other parts of the conflict were handled pretty well, the final choice was really one-sided. As Sebastian said, why debate that when the person solely responsible for the atrocity was right in front of them. So the Mages in the Circle were innocent of that crime. Maybe if they were linked to it, like helping Anders with his plot or something could have made it more even.
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Post by gervaise21 on Mar 8, 2021 18:49:22 GMT
That's me, though. Your mileage may vary. No, your reasoning is pretty much the same as mine. I had just one Hawke side with the Templars/Meredith from the beginning of Act 3, who was a mage in the chaste relationship with Sebastian. She had been very much in the loyalist camp, even though she had never been in the Circle and that whole business with Grace made her decide that the other mages just couldn't be trusted but it went very much against the grain for me to do that and more a case of trying to come up with a justification for following that path just so I could find out how different it was from the other. My first Hawke stayed neutral at the beginning of the Act but the sided with the mages at the end. All the others tended to side with Orsino at the beginning, because he was defending the rights of all the citizens to have a secular ruler, and then carried that through into the final decision. I was never that happy with Varric though with his disapproving comment about letting dangerous people run amok, particularly if I was a mage as I was effectively one of those dangerous people. Whereas, of course, he seems to approve of siding with Meredith on the basis it is "defending our way of life", when she has been running the city under martial law and has now condemned a group of people who were innocent of the crime which she claimed to be exacting justice for. I never felt the same about him after that.
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Post by vertigomez on Mar 10, 2021 12:39:18 GMT
is.. it bad that this whole conversation reminded me of this
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Post by Rascoth on Mar 10, 2021 13:55:31 GMT
vertigomez Though let's be honest, I'd be Aveline saving Hawke, not Carver
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Post by Hrungr on Mar 10, 2021 16:59:09 GMT
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Post by Rascoth on Mar 10, 2021 17:46:34 GMT
Did I get rickrolled by Ser Aaron?
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Post by necrowaif on Mar 10, 2021 19:28:10 GMT
AH THESE FUCKING WOMBO AI VIDS ARE ALL OVER TWITTER I HATE THEM
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Post by nunziodefilippis on Mar 10, 2021 20:18:28 GMT
AH THESE FUCKING WOMBO AI VIDS ARE ALL OVER TWITTER I HATE THEM
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 10, 2021 20:21:01 GMT
With chapter 1 only three weeks away, I wonder when we’ll get a sneak peek like they usually do.
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Post by Hrungr on Mar 11, 2021 3:39:56 GMT
With chapter 1 only three weeks away, I wonder when we’ll get a sneak peek like they usually do. Hopefully next week! (fingers crossed)
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Post by Solas on Mar 20, 2021 15:46:55 GMT
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Post by Rascoth on Mar 20, 2021 16:13:22 GMT
Thanks, Solas Well, the preview confirms that... it's indeed Danarius' kid on the cover. But I didn't expect to see Loghain on the first page
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Post by samurailink on Mar 20, 2021 16:57:38 GMT
That previews got me very excited. It's nice to see Loghain wasn't written to be a mustache twirling villain in that flashback, i'm glad to see the Aaron getting some focus. Marius looks like he might even do something this series. And it's very good to see the they haven't shied away from more Hawke references.
Looking forward to this wild ride.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 20, 2021 17:58:19 GMT
So many red flags even in this preview. Please just be red herrings.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 20, 2021 19:00:45 GMT
Also as has been pointed out, this chapter states that Fenris murdered children. He says he eliminated Danarius’s bloodline, meaning he hunted down every child or grandchild he had no matter their age or how innocent they were.
I hate Fenris.
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nunziodefilippis
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Post by nunziodefilippis on Mar 20, 2021 19:26:28 GMT
Also as has been pointed out, this chapter states that Fenris murdered children. He says he eliminated Danarius’s bloodline, meaning he hunted down every child or grandchild he had no matter their age or how innocent they were. I hate Fenris. Actually, all it says is that he ended the bloodline. It doesn't specify what the ages were. For what that's worth.
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