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Post by colfoley on Apr 19, 2021 19:03:19 GMT
It isn't merely the fact that it had DLC content. That link didn't make it super obvious, but that DLC was spaced out like 1 a week, with the intent of fueling continual player "engagement" with the game over a series of months. That's the definition of GAAS/"Live service" game.
Huh? What does "real people" mean in context to "choice and companion system"? How are the two related?
Again, DLC spaced out or not, is not the "definition of GAAS/"Live service" games". The definition is the game requiring a live service (i.e. servers) to be playable. That's it. Everything else is just what you people incorrectly conflate as live-service.
to be clear your entire argument hinges on live service being online or multiplayer only...is because its similar to the word servers?
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Post by river82 on Apr 19, 2021 21:11:51 GMT
Edit - he explicitly calls out "games as a service" near the end. Yes he did. He said he used to work on MMOs, Games as a service was just taking off at the time and it was a natural fit. 3 guesses as to why and the first two don't count. Do you even watch what you link or do you just hear what you want to hear and expect everyone to do the same? Your definition is not what people within the industry say, your definition is actually completely made up and you try and shoehorn what industry people say to match it.
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Post by river82 on Apr 19, 2021 21:15:11 GMT
Again, DLC spaced out or not, is not the "definition of GAAS/"Live service" games". The definition is the game requiring a live service (i.e. servers) to be playable. That's it. Everything else is just what you people incorrectly conflate as live-service.
to be clear your entire argument hinges on live service being online or multiplayer only...is because its similar to the word servers? Gaas is based off of Saas, it is a subcategory of a category of an already established definition. That's also where servers come from. We've also been over this before also but once again you hear what you want to hear and nothing else. Obviously because "servers" and "service" have nothing to do with one another. What sort of stupid question is that? Maybe leave your echo chamber one day and maybe you'll stop asking these sorts of questions.
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Post by colfoley on Apr 19, 2021 21:21:00 GMT
to be clear your entire argument hinges on live service being online or multiplayer only...is because its similar to the word servers? Gaas is based off of Saas, it is a subcategory of a category of an already established definition. That's also where servers come from. We've also been over this before also but once again you hear what you want to hear and nothing else. Obviously because "servers" and "service" have nothing to do with one another. What sort of stupid question is that? the QP made the equivilency, not I.
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 19, 2021 21:23:41 GMT
Can someone explain to me why we're not just looking up the Wikipedia definition and calling it a day?
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Post by eternalambiguity on Apr 19, 2021 21:24:26 GMT
Yes he did. He said he used to work on MMOs, Games as a service was just taking off at the time and it was a natural fit. 3 guesses as to why and the first two don't count. Do you even watch what you link or do you just hear what you want to hear and expect everyone to do the same? I could ask you the same. Paraphrased quote from the talk: "Now I know what you're saying. 'Wait a minute. Aren't these the techniques Games as a Service use?'" "Yes, and that's okay. [Part I don't remember exactly so I'll skip it] Steal the good stuff." Go troll someone else please.
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Post by river82 on Apr 19, 2021 21:25:33 GMT
Gaas is based off of Saas, it is a subcategory of a category of an already established definition. That's also where servers come from. We've also been over this before also but once again you hear what you want to hear and nothing else. Obviously because "servers" and "service" have nothing to do with one another. What sort of stupid question is that? the QP made the equivilency, not I. No, the QP made the equivalency between "LIVE SERVICE" and servers, not service. The modifier modifies the noun. It has nothing to do with the similarity between "service" and service. So let me ask again, what sort of stupid question was that?
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Post by river82 on Apr 19, 2021 21:28:25 GMT
Yes he did. He said he used to work on MMOs, Games as a service was just taking off at the time and it was a natural fit. 3 guesses as to why and the first two don't count. Do you even watch what you link or do you just hear what you want to hear and expect everyone to do the same? I could ask you the same. Paraphrased quote from the talk: "Now I know what you're saying. 'Wait a minute. Aren't these the techniques Games as a Service use?'" "Yes, and that's okay. [Part I don't remember exactly so I'll skip it] Steal the good stuff." Go troll someone else please. I believe the person trolling is you. Techniques used by GaaS does not equate to a definition. Like I said before you are hearing what you want to hear and trying to fit it into your world view. Gaas is a subcategory of Saas. ALL definitions of categories MUST also apply to their subcategories. That is a universal rule. Saas requires online activity, period. That is the technical, most pure definition of Game as a Service. We have one, we use it, that is it. You can then get into games who use elements of Gaas games and call them live service if you wish. This doesn't change the definition of GaaS though.
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Post by colfoley on Apr 19, 2021 21:30:07 GMT
the QP made the equivilency, not I. No, the QP made the equivalency between "LIVE SERVICE" and servers, not service. The modifier modifies the noun. It has nothing to do with the similarity between "service" and service. So let me ask again, what sort of stupid question was that? ironically enough there are no stupid questions only stupid answers and statements. And i was not even talking to you i was talking to another poster, if I'm wrong then they have the opprotunity to correct me and yet you inserted yourself...with your usual subtlety, into this debate. To paraphrase eternal, go troll someone else please.
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Post by river82 on Apr 19, 2021 21:31:21 GMT
Can someone explain to me why we're not just looking up the Wikipedia definition and calling it a day? Because it goes against what Colfoley and Eternal Ambiguity want to believe. In the video game industry, games as a service (GaaS) represents providing video games or game content on a continuing revenue model, similar to software as a service. Games as a service are ways to monetize video games either after their initial sale, or to support a free-to-play model. Games released under the GaaS model typically receive a long or indefinite stream of monetized new content over time to encourage players to continue paying to support the game. This often leads to games that work under a GaaS model to be called "living games" or "live games", since they continually change with these updates.Is Wiki's definition. It's also the communities definition. It's also the industries definition. It is not Colfoley's and Eternal's definition. Quite frankly I'm sick of coming to these forums and having trouble communicating basic concepts all gamers already know because a few people want to run around and dispute them to push agendas *rolls eyes*
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Post by river82 on Apr 19, 2021 21:32:49 GMT
No, the QP made the equivalency between "LIVE SERVICE" and servers, not service. The modifier modifies the noun. It has nothing to do with the similarity between "service" and service. So let me ask again, what sort of stupid question was that? ironically enough there are no stupid questions only stupid answers and statements. And i was not even talking to you i was talking to another poster, if I'm wrong then they have the opprotunity to correct me and yet you inserted yourself...with your usual subtlety, into this debate. To paraphrase eternal, go troll someone else please. Your comment was a pathetic attempt at being funny to try and sound smart, and was copy and pasted from Eternal's post. Funnily enough the people trolling was you and Eternal. So right back at you.
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Post by eternalambiguity on Apr 19, 2021 21:38:30 GMT
I could ask you the same. Paraphrased quote from the talk: "Now I know what you're saying. 'Wait a minute. Aren't these the techniques Games as a Service use?'" "Yes, and that's okay. [Part I don't remember exactly so I'll skip it] Steal the good stuff." Go troll someone else please. I believe the person trolling is you. Techniques used by GaaS does not equate to a definition. Like I said before you are hearing what you want to hear and trying to fit it into your world view. Gaas is a subcategory of Saas. ALL definitions of categories MUST also apply to their subcategories. That is a universal rule. Saas requires online activity, period. That is the technical, most pure definition of Game as a Service. We have one, we use it, that is it. You can then get into games who use elements of Gaas games and call them live service if you wish. This doesn't change the definition of GaaS though. Every game that phones home for its license "requires online activity." Your definition is meaningless. As someone who writes software for a living, claiming "Saas" is about "online activity" is amusing (and wrong). It's about continued updates. Things like, in the gaming sphere, patches than significantly change gameplay, as well as little DLC packs. Or the things mentioned in the talk I posted.
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Post by river82 on Apr 19, 2021 21:40:44 GMT
I believe the person trolling is you. Techniques used by GaaS does not equate to a definition. Like I said before you are hearing what you want to hear and trying to fit it into your world view. Gaas is a subcategory of Saas. ALL definitions of categories MUST also apply to their subcategories. That is a universal rule. Saas requires online activity, period. That is the technical, most pure definition of Game as a Service. We have one, we use it, that is it. You can then get into games who use elements of Gaas games and call them live service if you wish. This doesn't change the definition of GaaS though. Every game that phones home for its license "requires online activity." Your definition is meaningless. As someone who writes software for a living, claiming "Saas" is about "online activity" is amusing (and wrong). It's about continued updates. Things like, in the gaming sphere, patches than significantly change gameplay, as well as little DLC packs. Or the things mentioned in the talk I posted. Software as a Service is a method of software delivery and licensing in which software is accessed online via a subscription, rather than bought and installed on individual computers.
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 19, 2021 21:45:42 GMT
ironically enough there are no stupid questions only stupid answers and statements Clearly you have never spent any time on Quora.
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 19, 2021 21:48:21 GMT
Every game that phones home for its license "requires online activity." Your definition is meaningless. As someone who writes software for a living, claiming "Saas" is about "online activity" is amusing (and wrong). It's about continued updates. Things like, in the gaming sphere, patches than significantly change gameplay, as well as little DLC packs. Or the things mentioned in the talk I posted. Software as a Service is a method of software delivery and licensing in which software is accessed online via a subscription, rather than bought and installed on individual computers. Hmm... so a pure microtransactions model doesn't count as SaaS because you don't absolutely have to have the stuff?
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Post by river82 on Apr 19, 2021 21:53:57 GMT
Software as a Service is a method of software delivery and licensing in which software is accessed online via a subscription, rather than bought and installed on individual computers. Hmm... so a pure microtransactions model doesn't count as SaaS because you don't absolutely have to have the stuff? As tends to happen with all gaming categories you have the pure games which belong to a genre, and those games which have elements of those games? Kinda like how all games have RPG elements in them these days lol. I believe the purest examples of GaaS will always be MMOs. I think these are what these games are based off. Then you branch out from there with each game being more or less of a GaaS I guess. Categories help consumers identify what elements are in each game, which is why Post Launch support is terrible as a definition by the way. If every game can belong to a category then it doesn't help consumers narrow their search. Assassins Creed has GaaS elements but isn't a GaaS game. Are season pass games GaaS? You could possibly make an argument. Destiny 2, Borderlands 3. Then you go into the gacha games, are online games with obtrusive cash shops GaaS? Are pay to win games GaaS? These last two are where they get their bad name a bit. One person on Forbes made a sliding scale with Destiny 2 on one end and ... some other random game on the other lol.
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Post by eternalambiguity on Apr 19, 2021 21:58:54 GMT
Every game that phones home for its license "requires online activity." Your definition is meaningless. As someone who writes software for a living, claiming "Saas" is about "online activity" is amusing (and wrong). It's about continued updates. Things like, in the gaming sphere, patches than significantly change gameplay, as well as little DLC packs. Or the things mentioned in the talk I posted. Software as a Service is a method of software delivery and licensing in which software is accessed online via a subscription, rather than bought and installed on individual computers. What is your source for this definition?
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Post by river82 on Apr 19, 2021 22:08:47 GMT
Software as a Service is a method of software delivery and licensing in which software is accessed online via a subscription, rather than bought and installed on individual computers. What is your source for this definition? A random dictionary lol. Software as a Service has a VERY established definition. So you have the lexico dictionary definition above, you have the techterm definition I'll list below next to 1, searchcloudcomputing definition below next to 2. I'll have a company who's delivering SaaS services have their definition next to 3 and etc etc. I don't know where you and Colfoley got your definitions, I genuinely don't. Even people who get confused over GaaS (there's almost no confusion over SaaS) kinda get closeish to online application stuff? 1 - Stands for "Software as a Service." SaaS is software that is deployed over the Internet rather than installed on a computer. 2 - Software as a service (SaaS) is a software distribution model in which a cloud provider hosts applications and makes them available to end users over the internet. 3 - Software as a service (or SaaS) is a way of delivering applications over the Internet—as a service. Instead of installing and maintaining software, you simply access it via the Internet, freeing yourself from complex software and hardware management. SaaS applications are sometimes called Web-based software, on-demand software, or hosted software. Whatever the name, SaaS applications run on a SaaS provider’s servers. EDIT FOR LINKS: techterms.com/definition/saassearchcloudcomputing.techtarget.com/definition/Software-as-a-Servicewww.salesforce.com/in/saas/
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 19, 2021 22:41:46 GMT
I'm not quite sure why we're talking about SaaS in particular. Any game built as SaaS would be included in the GaaS set, unless I've really missed something, but it doesn't seem like the reverse is true.
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Post by eternalambiguity on Apr 19, 2021 22:44:15 GMT
What is your source for this definition? A random dictionary lol. Software as a Service has a VERY established definition. So you have the lexico dictionary definition above, you have the techterm definition I'll list below next to 1, searchcloudcomputing definition below next to 2. I'll have a company who's delivering SaaS services have their definition next to 3 and etc etc. I don't know where you and Colfoley got your definitions, I genuinely don't. Even people who get confused over GaaS (there's almost no confusion over SaaS) kinda get closeish to online application stuff? 1 - Stands for "Software as a Service." SaaS is software that is deployed over the Internet rather than installed on a computer. 2 - Software as a service (SaaS) is a software distribution model in which a cloud provider hosts applications and makes them available to end users over the internet. 3 - Software as a service (or SaaS) is a way of delivering applications over the Internet—as a service. Instead of installing and maintaining software, you simply access it via the Internet, freeing yourself from complex software and hardware management. SaaS applications are sometimes called Web-based software, on-demand software, or hosted software. Whatever the name, SaaS applications run on a SaaS provider’s servers. EDIT FOR LINKS: techterms.com/definition/saassearchcloudcomputing.techtarget.com/definition/Software-as-a-Servicewww.salesforce.com/in/saas/ "Hosted online and run over the internet" is another meaningless definition that excludes every game (including 99% MMOs) except flash games on Newgrounds. Is that your assertion? That Anthem was not a GaaS, that WoW is not a GaaS, that TOR is not a GaaS?
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Post by river82 on Apr 19, 2021 22:46:44 GMT
I'm not quite sure why we're talking about SaaS in particular. Any game built as SaaS would be included in the GaaS set, unless I've really missed something, but it doesn't seem like the reverse is true. Games as a service are a subcategory of Software as a service similar to how games are a subcategory of software. Any definition for a category must also apply to all its subcategories, but the reverse isn't true because subcategories are a more specific version of the parent. So basically the definition of SaaS should be applicable to the most pure forms of GaaS, which they are. MMOs definitely apply for example. Then you have the gaming habit of taking common things found in GaaS games, calling them elements, and kinda applying them to other games which have those elements and things get a lot more confusing. Constant update patches are commonly found in GaaS games definitely, but you don't then go "GaaS games are games with patches" and then apply it to every game in existance as pure GaaS games, that's the process flipped in reverse.
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Post by river82 on Apr 19, 2021 22:48:08 GMT
A random dictionary lol. Software as a Service has a VERY established definition. So you have the lexico dictionary definition above, you have the techterm definition I'll list below next to 1, searchcloudcomputing definition below next to 2. I'll have a company who's delivering SaaS services have their definition next to 3 and etc etc. I don't know where you and Colfoley got your definitions, I genuinely don't. Even people who get confused over GaaS (there's almost no confusion over SaaS) kinda get closeish to online application stuff? 1 - Stands for "Software as a Service." SaaS is software that is deployed over the Internet rather than installed on a computer. 2 - Software as a service (SaaS) is a software distribution model in which a cloud provider hosts applications and makes them available to end users over the internet. 3 - Software as a service (or SaaS) is a way of delivering applications over the Internet—as a service. Instead of installing and maintaining software, you simply access it via the Internet, freeing yourself from complex software and hardware management. SaaS applications are sometimes called Web-based software, on-demand software, or hosted software. Whatever the name, SaaS applications run on a SaaS provider’s servers. EDIT FOR LINKS: techterms.com/definition/saassearchcloudcomputing.techtarget.com/definition/Software-as-a-Servicewww.salesforce.com/in/saas/"Hosted online and run over the internet" is another meaningless definition that excludes every game (including 99% MMOs) except flash games on Newgrounds. Is that your assertion? That Anthem was not a GaaS, that WoW is not a GaaS, that TOR is not a GaaS? Just take their definition of "runs on a SaaS provider's servers" then *shrugs* Every definition of SaaS has a common theme though.
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Post by xrayspex73 on Apr 19, 2021 23:17:51 GMT
Again, DLC spaced out or not, is not the "definition of GAAS/"Live service" games". The definition is the game requiring a live service (i.e. servers) to be playable. That's it. Everything else is just what you people incorrectly conflate as live-service.
to be clear your entire argument hinges on live service being online or multiplayer only...is because its similar to the word servers?
Are you really stuck on the word service and servers being similar? Not the point and I really don't see the point in arguing with someone who think Civilization V is a live service game.
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