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Post by Vortex13 on Oct 27, 2016 17:56:32 GMT
I like the sounds of being a scientist and diplomat. If the worlds really are more than combat zones and fetch quests, it could be really good. Make me care about the world, the people. Let me explore the culture and develop relationships. Then the combat means a lot more than just "shoot the enemy". Keep in mind, this is a shooter. So all this really means is instead of playing Master Chief, we're Gordon Freeman instead. It's funny that you mention Halo, the second game of that franchise did more to explore the alien side of the setting than all the following titles did. I hope that BioWare's talk here is more than just marketing speech. I really, really want to see something akin to the Rachni or (ME 2) Geth, as opposed to more human drama.
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Post by Iakus on Oct 27, 2016 17:59:52 GMT
Keep in mind, this is a shooter. So all this really means is instead of playing Master Chief, we're Gordon Freeman instead. It's funny that you mention Halo, the second game of that franchise did more to explore the alien side of the setting than all the following titles did. I hope that BioWare's talk here is more than just marketing speech. I really, really want to see something akin to the Rachni or (ME 2) Geth, as opposed to more human drama. Don't count on it. Chris L'Etoile was the driving force behind "the alien side of the setting" and he left years ago
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Post by Vortex13 on Oct 27, 2016 18:01:24 GMT
It's funny that you mention Halo, the second game of that franchise did more to explore the alien side of the setting than all the following titles did. I hope that BioWare's talk here is more than just marketing speech. I really, really want to see something akin to the Rachni or (ME 2) Geth, as opposed to more human drama. Don't count on it. Chris L'Etoile was the driving force behind "the alien side of the setting" and he left years ago Yeah. Though I'm hoping that my constant mantra will materialize some 'alien-ness' back into the setting. ...
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Post by BansheeOwnage on Oct 27, 2016 18:48:30 GMT
OK, the part about doing something different with an inexperienced hero had me laugh out loud. Ummmm, so Ryder will be like EVERY Dragon Age protagonist then? LOL. Yeah, totally new idea there. Almost all RPGs I can think of have always told the story of a nobody who rises to greatness. I am baffled about this statement. The industry has not evolved out of the action hero sterotype. Especially not shooters/action games. There have always been these two different approaches in RPGs! Both are power fantasies. Yes, thank you for pointing that out. Bioware (and most other game developers - well, anything that does marketing, actually) loves to tout their "innovation" that isn't actually innovative. It's just standard marketing, and while I've learned to basically tune it out, it's still kind of sad. I agree with the others who said they could have said they are different from Shepard, but that they shouldn't have claimed they were some new idea in RPGs. I wish I could be as optimistic as you Still, the info sounds good (hopefully the game will live up to it), and +1 for dancing Picard. Hopefully at some point we'll get to make contact with an alien vessel and introduce ourselves like: This is Captain (unfortunately can't say first name out-loud) Ryder of the Alliance starship Tempest/SSV Tempest/etc. *falls asleep* Heh, I won't deny that there's every possibility Andromeda's 'exploration' will pretty much just be shardhunting with a Mako... But that quote, right there, is exactly what I wanted to hear. No detail released about the game so far - nothing from any of the trailers or other interviews - has gotten me as excited as the implications of that one line--and that's speaking as someone who thought the Tempest was so cool they went and photoshopped together a dedication plaque for it. (Using a pre-made template, admittedly.) The suggestion that, when the Andromeda devs talk about ''exploration", they're talking about the sort of stuff Picard and company got up to - the stories they experienced, the people and cultures they made contact with - and not just your standard open-world, 'Hey, see that mountain over there? You can walk/drive up it if you like, and there might be a loot chest, with perhaps a short note if you're lucky.' is, quite sincerely, about the best news I could possibly have hoped to come across. Also I've been workshopping my, 'This is Captain Ryder (god I wish we could have a first name) of the _________ starship Tempest' speech ever since we got confirmation on the names of our ship and protagonist. *hilarious smooth Picard snip* It's not that I disagree with you, it's just that I'm - as I said above - numb to their claims about the game at this point. I can't get excited just because I worry about how accurate they really are. I mean, I hope so! That stuff really does sound awesome. But that's just how I am with Bioware now. I'm having this thought of Andromeda being this seasonal, episodic RPG now, instead of a trilogy. They release the game, then every so often, just add more stories to it. Maybe this time the crew has to stop a civil war on a planet, maybe next time they encounter an eldritch abomination in deep space. Could be interesting I know! They should totally have Ryder record 1000 preset names like Codsworth from Fallout 4! Yes, he only had one line with each, but if they just used it for that introduction line, I think it would go a long way Also... you of all people... misspelled "Jean-Luc Picard"! Go look at your first post. "Jeanne-Luc"??? What heresy is this?! Being scientist will allow me to play as a nerd. Being a scientist AND engineer will allow me to play as THE ULTIMATE NERD!! YEA!!! Hey, that would be awesome, but I'm not sure if we'll get our wish in practice. While Bioware has let our protagonists be smart/knowledgeable sometimes, they rarely if ever let them actually participate in techno/arcano-babble conversations with other characters And have them ask questions about things they should already know, even with auto-dialogue Still, I hope you're right, because making a smart and knowledgeable protagonist - a geek - in a Bioware RPG has been one of my wishes since forever, and with their emphasis on Ryder being more of a scientist/explorer, maybe it will finally happen! Now, off to work.
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Post by Kappa Neko on Oct 27, 2016 20:02:11 GMT
I'm having this thought of Andromeda being this seasonal, episodic RPG now, instead of a trilogy. They release the game, then every so often, just add more stories to it. Maybe this time the crew has to stop a civil war on a planet, maybe next time they encounter an eldritch abomination in deep space. Could be interesting As much as I'd love another trilogy (if Ryder is cool), I'd be on board with THAT too! In fact, I'd be THRILLED about smaller in scope games with different types of narrative all set in the same universe. Of course I would have preferred the Milky Way and exploring different perspectives through, say, a Turian or Salarian protagonist. But there's still a chance Andromeda turns out well as a setting. And playing an alien is always an option for future games, and I really hope they do it at some point. I don't want optional races like in DAI that amount to the same thing, I want to play a story tailored to a specific race and their culture. I can't recall ever having seen a game where you are the alien in a setting where there are also humans around. How's that for innovative, Bioware? OK, this is a super specific request for a game that would not sell at all but... I want to play a parent/kid (open world) adventure story. In general, but might as well be a Mass Effect universe game. I want an entire game of banter between the parent and the kid and maybe a pet. Either they are scavengers of sorts or stranded somewhere. And they find something cool (or scary) by accident. But mostly it would be a relaxing game about the youthful joy of discovery. I know most gamers seem to hate kids. But not me. I like family stories. And that's why the family aspect is the only thing about Andromeda that gets me excited. (Slightly off-topic, I know.)
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2016 20:05:33 GMT
I've liked the parts about the alien worlds feeling alien, and the artwork being awesome, but I am not that crazy to play a noob protagonist who seemingly just happened to pick up the magic gun, but really was fated to do so all along.... From the two tropes I prefer the old dog who knows what's what. Well, as long as Ryder is not imbued with an uber-Ancient curse, bless, or both, doesn't prominently feature in every prophecy, and does not at any point lose her life and memory, and have to retrace her steps to change or reinforce her former glorious self, I am gonna call it original. Exploration is great, many interesting stories intertwining is great, meeting cool aliens is great...
Again, my main concern it is going to be that it's gods forbid is high on micromanagement and OCD completionism. I want to just play it however I want, and skip stuff that I find boring and not be punished for it.
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Post by Arcian on Oct 27, 2016 20:08:27 GMT
It's funny that you mention Halo, the second game of that franchise did more to explore the alien side of the setting than all the following titles did. I hope that BioWare's talk here is more than just marketing speech. I really, really want to see something akin to the Rachni or (ME 2) Geth, as opposed to more human drama. Don't count on it. Chris L'Etoile was the driving force behind "the alien side of the setting" and he left years ago
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Post by KirkyX on Oct 27, 2016 21:54:15 GMT
It's not that I disagree with you, it's just that I'm - as I said above - numb to their claims about the game at this point. I can't get excited just because I worry about how accurate they really are. I mean, I hope so! That stuff really does sound awesome. But that's just how I am with Bioware now. I'm having this thought of Andromeda being this seasonal, episodic RPG now, instead of a trilogy. They release the game, then every so often, just add more stories to it. Maybe this time the crew has to stop a civil war on a planet, maybe next time they encounter an eldritch abomination in deep space. Could be interesting I know! They should totally have Ryder record 1000 preset names like Codsworth from Fallout 4! Yes, he only had one line with each, but if they just used it for that introduction line, I think it would go a long way Also... you of all people... misspelled "Jean-Luc Picard"! Go look at your first post. "Jeanne-Luc"??? What heresy is this?! Being scientist will allow me to play as a nerd. Being a scientist AND engineer will allow me to play as THE ULTIMATE NERD!! YEA!!! Hey, that would be awesome, but I'm not sure if we'll get our wish in practice. While Bioware has let our protagonists be smart/knowledgeable sometimes, they rarely if ever let them actually participate in techno/arcano-babble conversations with other characters And have them ask questions about things they should already know, even with auto-dialogue Still, I hope you're right, because making a smart and knowledgeable protagonist - a geek - in a Bioware RPG has been one of my wishes since forever, and with their emphasis on Ryder being more of a scientist/explorer, maybe it will finally happen! Now, off to work. Yeah, I get the scepticism; I actually share some quantity of it, though I may not show it much. Still, ultimately, the worst I expect from ME: A is that it'll be Inquisition in the Mass Effect universe, and while that'd certainly be a pretty huge disappointment, I think I'd still find enough to enjoy about the game that getting excited now won't be a complete waste. Inquisition might be my least favourite BioWare game, depending on how charitable I'm feeling about ME3 at any given moment, but I'm still glad I played it--and Andromeda has the advantage of being a sci-fi game, which'll always be a bigger draw for me than fantasy, much as I love Dragon Age's setting. Of course, I'm still very much hoping that Andromeda will be a quite a bit more than just Inquisition In Space. Heck, I'm even somewhat optimistic about it--call it a character flaw. Oh, that'd be fantastic! It's the perfect format for DLC, too--compelling stories, told within the game's existing narrative framework - in this case, 'Hey, you've got a spaceship; go look for stuff in it!' - but ultimately nonessential to the game's main story, as all the best DLC ought to be. That's actually one of my biggest problems with Inquisition: the game genuinely has a fantastic ending and villain, possibly BioWare's best ever--but if you never bought Trespasser, you certainly wouldn't know it. Now, I've historically been against the Codsworth idea - it just seemed like too much trouble for too little gain, and I'm one of those crazy people who'd honestly be okay with having a set first name - but couched in those terms... Yup, onboard. 'This is Captain Jeanne-Luc Ryder of the ______ starship Tempest' is just too wonderful a possibility to pass up! Ah, and you notice how I just did it again? There's method to my madness: my Ryder's gonna be Picard... But also a lady, like basically all my RPG protagonists, and 'Jeanne' is the feminine form of 'Jean'. 'Luc' is still masculine, but hyphenated names with both feminine and masculine components aren't unheard of in France, so I think I can get away with it. On being a nerd: Yes! Please let me actually play one of the people who get to do the fun exposition, BioWare, just for once! (Though for the sake of my roleplaying plans, I think I'll be needing a series of dialogue options dealing with amateur archaeology, classical literature, and the proper care of horses in addition to the pre-requisite technobabble, thanks!)
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Post by BansheeOwnage on Oct 30, 2016 5:14:05 GMT
As much as I'd love another trilogy (if Ryder is cool), I'd be on board with THAT too! In fact, I'd be THRILLED about smaller in scope games with different types of narrative all set in the same universe. Of course I would have preferred the Milky Way and exploring different perspectives through, say, a Turian or Salarian protagonist. But there's still a chance Andromeda turns out well as a setting. And playing an alien is always an option for future games, and I really hope they do it at some point. I don't want optional races like in DAI that amount to the same thing, I want to play a story tailored to a specific race and their culture. I can't recall ever having seen a game where you are the alien in a setting where there are also humans around. How's that for innovative, Bioware? OK, this is a super specific request for a game that would not sell at all but... I want to play a parent/kid (open world) adventure story. In general, but might as well be a Mass Effect universe game. I want an entire game of banter between the parent and the kid and maybe a pet. Either they are scavengers of sorts or stranded somewhere. And they find something cool (or scary) by accident. But mostly it would be a relaxing game about the youthful joy of discovery. I know most gamers seem to hate kids. But not me. I like family stories. And that's why the family aspect is the only thing about Andromeda that gets me excited. (Slightly off-topic, I know.)Well if you hung around the BSN when ME3 was released, I can certainly see why you'd think that, ha But that was just because of a certain kid. Personally, I haven't really noticed any general feelings towards them one way or the other, and quite a few BSNers have kids themselves. And it would certainly be interesting to play another race, even if I like playing as a human. I know a lot of people expected it in ME:A and were disappointed. I'd love to play as a geth, but that's never going to happen, and it would be very hard to write proper RP options for. I hope they're serious about the "you are the alien" aspect of ME:A, and hope the story is a less human-centric (anthropocentric I suppose)/Humans Are Special than the original trilogy was. I mean, I loved those games, but that was a flaw to me. Yeah, I get the scepticism; I actually share some quantity of it, though I may not show it much. Still, ultimately, the worst I expect from ME: A is that it'll be Inquisition in the Mass Effect universe, and while that'd certainly be a pretty huge disappointment, I think I'd still find enough to enjoy about the game that getting excited now won't be a complete waste. Inquisition might be my least favourite BioWare game, depending on how charitable I'm feeling about ME3 at any given moment, but I'm still glad I played it--and Andromeda has the advantage of being a sci-fi game, which'll always be a bigger draw for me than fantasy, much as I love Dragon Age's setting. Of course, I'm still very much hoping that Andromeda will be a quite a bit more than just Inquisition In Space. Heck, I'm even somewhat optimistic about it--call it a character flaw. Oh, that'd be fantastic! It's the perfect format for DLC, too--compelling stories, told within the game's existing narrative framework - in this case, 'Hey, you've got a spaceship; go look for stuff in it!' - but ultimately nonessential to the game's main story, as all the best DLC ought to be. That's actually one of my biggest problems with Inquisition: the game genuinely has a fantastic ending and villain, possibly BioWare's best ever--but if you never bought Trespasser, you certainly wouldn't know it. Now, I've historically been against the Codsworth idea - it just seemed like too much trouble for too little gain, and I'm one of those crazy people who'd honestly be okay with having a set first name - but couched in those terms... Yup, onboard. 'This is Captain Jeanne-Luc Ryder of the ______ starship Tempest' is just too wonderful a possibility to pass up! Ah, and you notice how I just did it again? There's method to my madness: my Ryder's gonna be Picard... But also a lady, like basically all my RPG protagonists, and 'Jeanne' is the feminine form of 'Jean'. 'Luc' is still masculine, but hyphenated names with both feminine and masculine components aren't unheard of in France, so I think I can get away with it. On being a nerd: Yes! Please let me actually play one of the people who get to do the fun exposition, BioWare, just for once! (Though for the sake of my roleplaying plans, I think I'll be needing a series of dialogue options dealing with amateur archaeology, classical literature, and the proper care of horses in addition to the pre-requisite technobabble, thanks!) Yeah, that makes sense. It'll probably be at least worth playing. I think, in my head, I'm sort of expecting another ME3 disaster (but that's silly, Banshee, that'll happen after years of investment, not in the first game). But in all likelihood it'll probably be Inquisition-ish in the sense that they'll play it safe compared to ME3. And I'm mostly referring to DA:I's blah ending (not counting Trespasser), because Bioware loves to overcompensate Yeah, it's kind of an interesting idea! One thing I'd definitely like them to do in all DLC is make an effort to make it feel less isolated, because oftentimes it might as well have happened in the protagonist's head for all the connection it has to the rest of the story/characters/world. At the end of the DLC, your character wakes up, the end. Take, for instance, Leviathan. Maybe just add a couple of conversations to be said later on in the game by characters, referencing the events and what they learned. It's not really more work, it's just spaced out a bit. Technically, they did that with Starkid talking about them, but, you know. Or Descent, from DA:I. Once again, you learn world-shattering (in this case, literally) revelations, but - and this genuinely pisses me off, it's not just asking for better mechanics - you're locked into a very arbitrary mindset that negates any other roleplaying: that you shouldn't tell anyone what you found out. Because that would mean the writers actually have to deal with the ramifications of the revelations they sell the DLC with So that's another way to make DLCs feel more connected: Let them change things when appropriate. Uh, guess I went on a bit of a tangent there, huh? Ah, yes, the eternal DLC debate: Shall it relate to the main plot, like Trespasser, or shall it be completely isolated, like, well, most? They have their pros and cons each, and while I like that Trespasser was so relevant (and more importantly to me, personal for the Inquisitor, which the main game lacked), having to pay for "a complete story" is obviously not cool. So you can weigh those and see which is more important, and I'm sort of in the middle. No ardent opinion. But one thing I definitely have an opinion on, is that old-gen users got shafted. They couldn't even pay for an epilogue if they wanted to Well, it's not too much trouble in the sense that we don't have to sit around recording 2000 lines But glad you like that idea. I think it would be the best use of it! And I found it useful in F4 because I'm (to use a British expression) bollocks at naming my characters. Terribly unoriginal. So I could pick one from the list (I picked Cullen, strangely or not-so-strangely enough.) Not sure how I feel about a preset name. Obviously it has advantages, but, well, it's a bit less personal and harder to distinguish characters. If they had one, I feel like it should be something gender-neutral for some reason, like Sam. Yes, I did notice, and I actually, put together what you were doing as I read it the second time! Because this time I understood you were talking about your character's name. I was like "Ooooooh, I get it!" You know, I actually speak French, so I feel a bit dumb I didn't figure it out the first time Also, is there even a "feminine" version of "Luc"? Because if it was "Luce", it would change the pronunciation to a soft C *insert thinking emoticon* Anyway, cool idea Related: Have you seen the youtube comments of people saying "That John-Luke guy"? *shudders* Worthy of a Picard/Riker double facepalm Haha, exactly! You know, it wouldn't be that hard to do! Remember the knowledge dialogues in DA:I? Build off those. It would be simple: Instead of having whatever character would usually be doing the exposition... expose(?), you'd pick one of those icons (and auto-dialogue where appropriate) and your own character would explain something instead! Preferably in an adorkable, overly enthusiastic tone. And get to participate in banter, like that great Tali/Kaidan banter in the Geth Dreadnaught about omni-tools, which was also a nice ME1 throwback.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Oct 30, 2016 5:32:15 GMT
And it would certainly be interesting to play another race, even if I like playing as a human. I know a lot of people expected it in ME:A and were disappointed. I'd love to play as a geth, but that's never going to happen, and it would be very hard to write proper RP options for. I hope they're serious about the "you are the alien" aspect of ME:A, and hope the story is a less human-centric (anthropocentric I suppose)/Humans Are Special than the original trilogy was. I mean, I loved those games, but that was a flaw to me. I still think it is stupid they didn't do race selection for this game. There are a ton of fans that want it, and it is the perfect time because all the races are in the same boat, both metaphorically and literally. But no, they had to force family on us instead keeping us just human. They may succeed in the "You are the alien" thing, but I will bet you money it is going to be human-centric and Humans Are Special. We already see that with all the "find a home for humanity", "a new hope for humanity", etc stuff they've been promoting, as well as things like going to Andromeda being a human effort with the other aliens "pitching in" and "tagging along".
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2016 9:36:26 GMT
And it would certainly be interesting to play another race, even if I like playing as a human. I know a lot of people expected it in ME:A and were disappointed. I'd love to play as a geth, but that's never going to happen, and it would be very hard to write proper RP options for. I hope they're serious about the "you are the alien" aspect of ME:A, and hope the story is a less human-centric (anthropocentric I suppose)/Humans Are Special than the original trilogy was. I mean, I loved those games, but that was a flaw to me. I still think it is stupid they didn't do race selection for this game. There are a ton of fans that want it, and it is the perfect time because all the races are in the same boat, both metaphorically and literally. But no, they had to force family on us instead keeping us just human. They may succeed in the "You are the alien" thing, but I will bet you money it is going to be human-centric and Humans Are Special. We already see that with all the "find a home for humanity", "a new hope for humanity", etc stuff they've been promoting, as well as things like going to Andromeda being a human effort with the other aliens "pitching in" and "tagging along". Well, at least we won't be getting any "I'm extra special just because I look like an alien and everyone has to explain myself to me at every turn because my player is actually human and doesn't know shit about my alien culture."
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Post by KirkyX on Oct 30, 2016 10:59:44 GMT
*snip* Yeah, it's kind of an interesting idea! One thing I'd definitely like them to do in all DLC is make an effort to make it feel less isolated, because oftentimes it might as well have happened in the protagonist's head for all the connection it has to the rest of the story/characters/world. At the end of the DLC, your character wakes up, the end. Take, for instance, Leviathan. Maybe just add a couple of conversations to be said later on in the game by characters, referencing the events and what they learned. It's not really more work, it's just spaced out a bit. Technically, they did that with Starkid talking about them, but, you know. Or Descent, from DA:I. Once again, you learn world-shattering (in this case, literally) revelations, but - and this genuinely pisses me off, it's not just asking for better mechanics - you're locked into a very arbitrary mindset that negates any other roleplaying: that you shouldn't tell anyone what you found out. Because that would mean the writers actually have to deal with the ramifications of the revelations they sell the DLC with So that's another way to make DLCs feel more connected: Let them change things when appropriate. Uh, guess I went on a bit of a tangent there, huh? Ah, yes, the eternal DLC debate: Shall it relate to the main plot, like Trespasser, or shall it be completely isolated, like, well, most? They have their pros and cons each, and while I like that Trespasser was so relevant (and more importantly to me, personal for the Inquisitor, which the main game lacked), having to pay for "a complete story" is obviously not cool. So you can weigh those and see which is more important, and I'm sort of in the middle. No ardent opinion. But one thing I definitely have an opinion on, is that old-gen users got shafted. They couldn't even pay for an epilogue if they wanted to Well, it's not too much trouble in the sense that we don't have to sit around recording 2000 lines But glad you like that idea. I think it would be the best use of it! And I found it useful in F4 because I'm (to use a British expression) bollocks at naming my characters. Terribly unoriginal. So I could pick one from the list (I picked Cullen, strangely or not-so-strangely enough.) Not sure how I feel about a preset name. Obviously it has advantages, but, well, it's a bit less personal and harder to distinguish characters. If they had one, I feel like it should be something gender-neutral for some reason, like Sam. Yes, I did notice, and I actually, put together what you were doing as I read it the second time! Because this time I understood you were talking about your character's name. I was like "Ooooooh, I get it!" You know, I actually speak French, so I feel a bit dumb I didn't figure it out the first time Also, is there even a "feminine" version of "Luc"? Because if it was "Luce", it would change the pronunciation to a soft C *insert thinking emoticon* Anyway, cool idea Related: Have you seen the youtube comments of people saying "That John-Luke guy"? *shudders* Worthy of a Picard/Riker double facepalm Haha, exactly! You know, it wouldn't be that hard to do! Remember the knowledge dialogues in DA:I? Build off those. It would be simple: Instead of having whatever character would usually be doing the exposition... expose(?), you'd pick one of those icons (and auto-dialogue where appropriate) and your own character would explain something instead! Preferably in an adorkable, overly enthusiastic tone. And get to participate in banter, like that great Tali/Kaidan banter in the Geth Dreadnaught about omni-tools, which was also a nice ME1 throwback. Honestly, I don't think another ME3-style disaster is even possible with Andromeda, no matter what happens with the game. Those ' years of investment' being, ultimately, wasted in the eyes of a lot of players by such an unsatisfying conclusion is absolutely key to why Mass Effect 3 blew up in the way it did, so even if Andromeda's bad in all the exact same ways as Mass Effect 3 was, the fact that we haven't spent five-to-six years with these characters and this story means that it simply can't hurt as much. Besides, as you say, BioWare have a way of overcompensating for whichever criticisms their previous game received with the next one - in the process coming up with new and frequently shittier problems - so there's a good chance that, whatever's wrong with Andromeda, it'll be something we don't see coming. I agree that better DLC integration would be great, though I have a suspicion that it could be quite difficult to actually accomplish--I think the issues you describe are, in part, an artefact of both the way DLC is made, and the way it's expected to be played. Frequently, all the VO and such for DLC will be recorded after the stuff for the main game, and it can sometimes be difficult or impossible to get certain voice actors back in the booth for more work. This can be difficult to write around even within the confines of the DLC itself - the ending of Arrival, with Joker's uncharacteristically mute self, is a good example - and would, I imagine, become exponentially more troublesome if they had to integrate further references to the events of the DLC throughout the rest of the game. There's also an argument to be made that, as a lot of players will only do a single playthrough, and then play each DLC as it releases from the post-game, the effort-to-value ratio for integrating references to DLC events throughout the rest of the game is less than optimal, as a lot of players won't ever go back for another playthrough and experience those references. To be clear, I still think it'd be totally worth it to do, and it's certainly not impossible--The Witcher 3 ties its DLC back into the main game in a few different ways, from minor conversations - for example, Geralt picks up a new scar as part of one of the DLCs, and it comes up in conversation with a few characters from the main game - to having characters from the DLC show up back in the main game, and all those little touches really help the world feel more cohesive and 'real', while also allowing the writers to avoid RP-limiting contrivances like the aforementioned Descent, 'Well, I'd better not tell anyone about this!' My position on DLC is basically that the game should tell a complete and fleshed out story out of the box - including personal moments for the MC, which I agree base-Inquisition really suffered from the lack of - so you never really see any 'holes', as it were, where DLC would slot in. Now, that doesn't mean fun little cryptic references to upcoming DLC/areas where DLC would hook on sensibly are a bad thing--look at Fallout: New Vegas for a good example of how to do that sort of thing well. It's just, you shouldn't come out of the base game feeling that you had an incomplete experience 'cause they were saving stuff for DLC. I mean, had Trespasser been the actual in-box ending of DA: I, I think that game's overall story would be remembered much, much more fondly than it generally is, as it completely solves pretty much all the issues with Corypheus as a villain--yes, he's still a fairly one-note adversary who isn't terribly interesting, but when his role in the story is re-contextualised from 'big bad' to 'pawn of the actual big bad, who's been manipulating you from within your party for the whole game', that isn't so much of a problem. I only played DA: I after all the DLC was already out, so I had that complete experience out-the-box, and the game was so, so much better for it. (Also, yeah, last-gen got utterly screwed.) It's possible to do expansive DLC that caps off the game well, without the base game/ending feeling incomplete for it. The Witcher 3's 'Blood and Wine' is by far the best example of an 'epilogue' DLC I've ever played - I see Trespasser as less of an epilogue and more, well, the ending the game should've had from the start - and yet the base game's conclusion didn't suffer for it, at all. It took an already-satisfying ending and expanded on it tremendously effectively, while also giving you a whole new substantial story to play though. After playing it, it truly felt like the perfect way to cap off that game, that world and those characters--but before playing it, I didn't feel like I needed anything more than what the game had already given me, so it was really the best of both worlds. Yup, I hadn't really considered that potential use for such a system before you suggested it, and now I'm definitely on-board--I'd just have the biggest smile on my face the second Ryder started introducing herself! (Ideally via viewscreen, having just stood up out of the captain's chair the Tempest will almost certainly not have and given her uniform a little tug. ) I'm not great at naming my PCs either, truth be told - I have a few standard names I always fall back on - but I've actually come up with quite a few different ideas for Ryder, based on astronauts. Fallout 4's voiced name list actually bugged out for me on my first playthough, so even though I picked a name I knew was supported, I just got 'Ma'am' from Cosworth the whole game. I'm just generally not that attached to my characters' first names when no one ever says them. It's not so bad in older/throw-back RPGs, that still rely on text-based conversations with either only partial or no voice acting, but in games like Mass Effect... Yeah, I've actually forgotten my characters' names part way through on occasion. So, it's something I'd be willing to give up for the sake of just having a first name people used somewhat frequently. Maybe they could let us pick our middle names, instead? Anyway, I'd prefer a gender-neutral name, too--so would BioWare, I imagine, since it'd halve the number of names they had to account for in voice acting. (Obviously, this is all just my preference: I know a lot of people are really attached to naming their characters, even in fully voice-acted games.) Heh, I was actually kinda worried people would just think I didn't know how to spell his name. But then I'd just show them this picture, which seems to do a pretty good job of dispelling any doubt in my Star Trek fan 'cred'. This is where I'd bang out some French to demonstrate the benefits of having had mandatory French language lessons for about six years in school... If I remembered more than, like, three phrases. So, you'd know much better than I on that front--I just stuck with 'Luc' 'cause, as you say, 'Luce' just sounds nothing like it, whereas 'Jean' and 'Jeanne' can be pronounced pretty similarly. Annnnnd I once again find myself quite literally rolling my eyes at something from YouTube's comment section. Yes to all of this! I wish the DA: I knowledge dialogue had been much, much more expansive than it was. My Elfquisitor spent most of that game trying to formulate passive-aggressive responses to shems explaining her own culture to her--indeed, she spent so much time thinking of these responses, that she almost never actually got to use any of them.
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Post by themikefest on Oct 30, 2016 13:13:53 GMT
I still think it is stupid they didn't do race selection for this game. There are a ton of fans that want it, and it is the perfect time because all the races are in the same boat, both metaphorically and literally. But no, they had to force family on us instead keeping us just human. I wouldn't want to play as another species. Humans are special. We're the best of the best in the universe. No other species comes close. Humanity #1
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Post by Iakus on Oct 30, 2016 15:27:16 GMT
And it would certainly be interesting to play another race, even if I like playing as a human. I know a lot of people expected it in ME:A and were disappointed. I'd love to play as a geth, but that's never going to happen, and it would be very hard to write proper RP options for. I hope they're serious about the "you are the alien" aspect of ME:A, and hope the story is a less human-centric (anthropocentric I suppose)/Humans Are Special than the original trilogy was. I mean, I loved those games, but that was a flaw to me. I still think it is stupid they didn't do race selection for this game. There are a ton of fans that want it, and it is the perfect time because all the races are in the same boat, both metaphorically and literally. But no, they had to force family on us instead keeping us just human. They may succeed in the "You are the alien" thing, but I will bet you money it is going to be human-centric and Humans Are Special. We already see that with all the "find a home for humanity", "a new hope for humanity", etc stuff they've been promoting, as well as things like going to Andromeda being a human effort with the other aliens "pitching in" and "tagging along". The thing is, humans are special because we are humans. Even the aliens are just funny looking humans, Rubber-Forehead Aliens really. Asari are hot blue (or purple) human women Turians are chitinous, mandibled humans with sticks up their butts Krogan are aggressive lizardy humans that like to head-butt things Quarians are masked humans with "dem hips" Even hanar are just polite humans that look like jellyfish. So what would be the point in playing an alien? A different skin for your avatar?
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Post by helios969 on Oct 30, 2016 16:30:38 GMT
And it would certainly be interesting to play another race, even if I like playing as a human. I know a lot of people expected it in ME:A and were disappointed. I'd love to play as a geth, but that's never going to happen, and it would be very hard to write proper RP options for. I hope they're serious about the "you are the alien" aspect of ME:A, and hope the story is a less human-centric (anthropocentric I suppose)/Humans Are Special than the original trilogy was. I mean, I loved those games, but that was a flaw to me. I still think it is stupid they didn't do race selection for this game. There are a ton of fans that want it, and it is the perfect time because all the races are in the same boat, both metaphorically and literally. But no, they had to force family on us instead keeping us just human. They may succeed in the "You are the alien" thing, but I will bet you money it is going to be human-centric and Humans Are Special. We already see that with all the "find a home for humanity", "a new hope for humanity", etc stuff they've been promoting, as well as things like going to Andromeda being a human effort with the other aliens "pitching in" and "tagging along". Sorry, but given how badly nonhuman races were implemented into DAI, I've no interest in that. And I know many other's who once were hot on the idea of playing as an alien in the ME-verse who have lost interest in such an idea in the hands of Bioware since they're unable or unwilling to go the extra mile to craft some additional story so it's coherent to the race we're playing. It doesn't really matter at this point, humans we are. It's like still complaining about being in Andromeda with 99% of TMW still unexplored. We all know why we are here, so we just have to come to terms with it.
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Post by Arcian on Oct 31, 2016 2:22:58 GMT
I still think it is stupid they didn't do race selection for this game. There are a ton of fans that want it, and it is the perfect time because all the races are in the same boat, both metaphorically and literally. But no, they had to force family on us instead keeping us just human. They may succeed in the "You are the alien" thing, but I will bet you money it is going to be human-centric and Humans Are Special. We already see that with all the "find a home for humanity", "a new hope for humanity", etc stuff they've been promoting, as well as things like going to Andromeda being a human effort with the other aliens "pitching in" and "tagging along". The thing is, humans are special because we are humans. Even the aliens are just funny looking humans, Rubber-Forehead Aliens really. Asari are hot blue (or purple) human women Turians are chitinous, mandibled humans with sticks up their butts Krogan are aggressive lizardy humans that like to head-butt things Quarians are masked humans with "dem hips" Even hanar are just polite humans that look like jellyfish. So what would be the point in playing an alien? A different skin for your avatar? That, roleplay and MP-esque classes with unique builds.
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Post by Iakus on Oct 31, 2016 16:07:05 GMT
That, roleplay and MP-esque classes with unique builds. I gotta say, my qunari Inquisitor felt less like a qunari and more like a "big human mercenary" 90% of the time. Even in DAO, which allowed more unique content based on race than I've seen in an RPG didn't have a whole lot of variation past the first hour or so. I also wouldn't count on unique classes based on race in a campaign setting. Too many balancing headaches. Far more likely would be "minimal racial adjustments"
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Oct 31, 2016 17:08:40 GMT
I still think it is stupid they didn't do race selection for this game. There are a ton of fans that want it, and it is the perfect time because all the races are in the same boat, both metaphorically and literally. But no, they had to force family on us instead keeping us just human. They may succeed in the "You are the alien" thing, but I will bet you money it is going to be human-centric and Humans Are Special. We already see that with all the "find a home for humanity", "a new hope for humanity", etc stuff they've been promoting, as well as things like going to Andromeda being a human effort with the other aliens "pitching in" and "tagging along". Well, at least we won't be getting any "I'm extra special just because I look like an alien and everyone has to explain myself to me at every turn because my player is actually human and doesn't know shit about my alien culture." I bet we'll still get that. Tons of alien characters in Mass Effect explained humanity to our human character. With this being a first contact kind of thing, if anything we'll get more since the new and old races will be explaining humanity to us.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Oct 31, 2016 17:16:55 GMT
I still think it is stupid they didn't do race selection for this game. There are a ton of fans that want it, and it is the perfect time because all the races are in the same boat, both metaphorically and literally. But no, they had to force family on us instead keeping us just human. I wouldn't want to play as another species. Then play human. That would still be an option. Sorry, but given how badly nonhuman races were implemented into DAI, I've no interest in that. And I know many other's who once were hot on the idea of playing as an alien in the ME-verse who have lost interest in such an idea in the hands of Bioware since they're unable or unwilling to go the extra mile to craft some additional story so it's coherent to the race we're playing. It doesn't really matter at this point, humans we are. It's like still complaining about being in Andromeda with 99% of TMW still unexplored. We all know why we are here, so we just have to come to terms with it. Hmm? Other than one case I had no issues with how the races were implemented in DAI. I was able to play my Vashoth as a Vashoth, my Dwarf as a Dwarf, my Human as Human, and my Elf as an Elf. The only case I had issues with was an Elf that didn't want to like the Dalish mindset since we were forced to have the Vallaslin thus we had to be a Pro-Dalish Dalish The thing is, humans are special because we are humans. Even the aliens are just funny looking humans, Rubber-Forehead Aliens really. Asari are hot blue (or purple) human women Turians are chitinous, mandibled humans with sticks up their butts Krogan are aggressive lizardy humans that like to head-butt things Quarians are masked humans with "dem hips" Even hanar are just polite humans that look like jellyfish. So what would be the point in playing an alien? A different skin for your avatar? How does us being human make humans special? And? Just because they fit that trope doesn't mean they don't have a lot of differences as well. Different perspectives, different backgrounds, different appearance, etc. I can think of a lot of reasons those kinds of things would be important in a role-playing game.
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Post by KaiserShep on Oct 31, 2016 18:06:33 GMT
I have to wonder how much race-specific dialogue would have to be written for the game for it to be satisfactory. Just having different voices obviously wouldn't be enough. ME's aliens may be rubber-headed people for the most part, but they're still more alien than elves, qunari and dwarves are, and people have stronger reactions or stricter boundaries (examples: a human can never be STG and a turian will never captain an alliance vessel)
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Post by themikefest on Oct 31, 2016 18:17:29 GMT
Then play human. That would still be an option. I will. Just don't need to waste resources to have the option to play as another species. Put all those resources to the story, characters and gameplay
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Post by Iakus on Oct 31, 2016 18:47:45 GMT
How does us being human make humans special? And? Just because they fit that trope doesn't mean they don't have a lot of differences as well. Different perspectives, different backgrounds, different appearance, etc. I can think of a lot of reasons those kinds of things would be important in a role-playing game. Because the game is made by humans for humans. Therefore, it is a purely human experience. What differences, though? Aliens in Mass Effect have had, by and large, very "human" perspectives. Alien characters always act in large part the same way a human may act in a similar situation. Mercs act like mercs, be they human, turian or asari. Scientists act like scientists. Soldiers like soldiers, and so on. How could playing an asari show how an enormously long life (compared to most other races) affect them and their relationships with others? How about turian regimented society? The drell utter dependency of the hanar? Quarians as the pariahs of the galaxy, unable to even leave their suits? I'm certainly not opposed to a game which lets us play an alien and explore these things. But if it's to be an option alongside humans, we're just going to be playing funny-looking humans.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Oct 31, 2016 19:24:58 GMT
This really will be the ultimate test of Mac Walters and the "lesser writers" IMHO attempting real world building. They have to make a whole lot from nothing just like in ME1 and I'm curious about how it boils down. Mac has said they still care a lot about the science of ME and "take it very seriously" (source Twitter lol) and I believe him, but I'm afraid of how this desire to respect that requirement translates to what they get done. I'm specifically afraid that there'll be a lot of new factions, races, societies etc. and they're not explained with detail, but instead a bunch of "The Khet are very powerful in the essence of their technology." "The Remnants left and left these artifacts behind. They can reveal the energy emissions in the Khet technology. It might be massive!"
You know? Like in ME3, where they often "describe" nerdy things but they don't really describe it, they just vaguely refer to it, and that happened in Inquisition too. I think it had some dwarf that was supposed to be your arcane expert or something, but all her dialogue was "I think the artifact is showing something, and it's strange, but so powerful, and wow, this means something important!"
I know Mac has been researching, so it's all going to be okay. I mean, you're really getting up there with the academics when you base your knowledge on "SciencePorn". It's like saying I want to write a thesis on movies and base it on WatchMojo
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Post by Iakus on Oct 31, 2016 20:44:11 GMT
This really will be the ultimate test of Mac Walters and the "lesser writers" IMHO attempting real world building. They have to make a whole lot from nothing just like in ME1 and I'm curious about how it boils down. Mac has said they still care a lot about the science of ME and "take it very seriously" (source Twitter lol) and I believe him, but I'm afraid of how this desire to respect that requirement translates to what they get done. I'm specifically afraid that there'll be a lot of new factions, races, societies etc. and they're not explained with detail, but instead a bunch of "The Khet are very powerful in the essence of their technology." "The Remnants left and left these artifacts behind. They can reveal the energy emissions in the Khet technology. It might be massive!" You know? Like in ME3, where they often "describe" nerdy things but they don't really describe it, they just vaguely refer to it, and that happened in Inquisition too. I think it had some dwarf that was supposed to be your arcane expert or something, but all her dialogue was "I think the artifact is showing something, and it's strange, but so powerful, and wow, this means something important!" I know Mac has been researching, so it's all going to be okay. I mean, you're really getting up there with the academics when you base your knowledge on "SciencePorn". It's like saying I want to write a thesis on movies and base it on WatchMojo I think there are only one or two writers left from the original Mass Effect team. The others either moved to Dragon Age (Like Patrick Weekes and Sylvia Feketekuty) or went on to the Secret IP. More likely this will be a test on how well these newcomers can salvage the wreckage the old team left behind. But with Mac at the helm, I'd prepare for more "organic energy" "you would not know them and there is no time to explain, "resources", and other Deus ex Nonsensica. And yeah, Dagna was a dwarven arcanist, studied in magical theory (but not practice, because dwarf) Yet even her ramblings turned out (in DLC) to touch on things long buried and forgotten, hints of stuff that might be explored later (like the Descent DLC)
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Oct 31, 2016 21:08:02 GMT
Lmao! Her vague, unspecific ramblings about "something" tied into later discoveries that hint at other vague plot reveals TBD in the future!? Dear lord. Excuse me but I don't have time to explain why I don't have time to explain, here! Back to Andrimmiduh, there is nothing to salvage. It's a new galaxy, new cast, new premise, clean slate. :/ I think it's bad to expect Andromeda to significantly tie into the overall canon in a meaningful way. Look more upon it as a reboot of Mass Effect. It probably will reference the past but the Milky Way is not likely an active part of this new storyline.
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