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Post by biggydx on Jun 22, 2021 18:32:02 GMT
So we're all generally familiar with retcons right? Shifts, deviations, contradictions, or outright changes to existing lore or game mechanics that have been established. Sometimes it's done for gameplay reasons (ex. Thermal Clips in Mass Effect, or the Power Armor in Fallout), sometimes it's done to allow for the narrative to path in more directions. Other times, it simply happens do to a lack of recall of the established lore.
People respond to these changes in different ways, but I'm curious as to how people feel about it when it comes to the Dragon Age universe. I remember when Inquisition was on it's way to launch, and there was a sizable amount of outrage over the lack of healing spells. The change was - I believe - stated to be a lore based decision, though it's not hard to also see that it was also for gameplay purposes as well.
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Post by necrowaif on Jun 22, 2021 18:50:28 GMT
The loss of healing spells wasn't really a lore-based decision; I think Bioware was just trying to address the constant complaints about having to drag along "the healer mage," even though that wasn't actually the case. So instead they switched over to a system of temporary HP (Guard and Barrier).
Of course, given all the bellyaching over the "loss of healing," I guess we'll go back to healer mages and the associated moaning and complaining about how you have to take that one mmage everywhere because they're the healbot.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 22, 2021 18:55:54 GMT
The loss of healing spells wasn't really a lore-based decision; I think Bioware was just trying to address the constant complaints about having to drag along "the healer mage," even though that wasn't actually the case. So instead they switched over to a system of temporary HP (Guard and Barrier). Of course, given all the bellyaching over the "loss of healing," I guess we'll go back to healer mages and the associated moaning and complaining. Hopefully they keep the Barrier and Guard system though. That way both sides have an option they like or at least tolerate.
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Post by bierkrug on Jun 22, 2021 19:12:11 GMT
I'm not sure I'm familiar enough with DA lore to even notice minutiae in canon deviation. Though I did notice that the static gender roles the Qunari have seem to be retconned. That was weird because it came out of nowhere.
How about a controversial hot take: Whether the devs should respect every single little player decision in following games. It costs developement time and resources for lots of little content crumbs that may be better placed elsewhere for one big chunk that everyone will profit from. It's awesome if they do but time and money are limiting factors. They are already running with their own canon for tie-in media in any case.
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Post by biggydx on Jun 22, 2021 19:26:37 GMT
I'm not sure I'm familiar enough with DA lore to even notice minutiae in canon deviation. Though I did notice that the static gender roles the Qunari have seem to be retconned. That was weird because it came out of nowhere. How about a controversial hot take: Whether the devs should respect every single little player decision in following games. It costs developement time and resources for lots of little content crumbs that may be better placed elsewhere for one big chunk that everyone will profit from. It's awesome if they do but time and money are limiting factors. They are already running with their own canon for tie-in media in any case. I'm kinda in your boat. When it came to lore, I was much more adept at Mass Effect the Dragon Age. Much of my knowledge of the series is the more front-facing narrative. I wonder if having a narrator for the Codex (like Mass Effect) would give people - like myself - more incentive to grow accustomed to the backend lore. As for having actions matter in new games, while I personally found it cool for the Mass Effect series, to me it only makes sense if the games are much more compact. A game with a core campaign that lasts 35+hrs, along with side quests, would make it untenable to transfer so much of that decision making over. I would also imagine it leads to decisions having LESS impact within their respective games, since you dont want drastic changes to the games story; due to potential ramifications in future titles. If decisions are to carry over, I think it's best done when they're applied to DLC or Expansions. Even then, I think only a handful of those decisions should play a part (per DLC). That's actually why I think, in some respects, the Dragon Age series is better suited from a narrative design standpoint. New protagonists means you dont always have to drag every narrative element the player engaged with along the franchises various iterations.
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Post by theascendent on Jun 22, 2021 19:27:35 GMT
I really want a return to the old school of magic the four that showed that magic had more uses than just combat. Primal, Entropy, Spirit, and Creation. I hate how they dumbed it down to rock paper scissors elements style, and only three of the elements at that with spirit providing a useful barrier spell to complement the respective element/specialization combination.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 22, 2021 20:39:58 GMT
People respond to these changes in different ways, but I'm curious as to how people feel about it when it comes to the Dragon Age universe. I remember when Inquisition was on it's way to launch, and there was a sizable amount of outrage over the lack of healing spells. The change was - I believe - stated to be a lore based decision, though it's not hard to also see that it was also for gameplay purposes as well. The changes to the spell lore were definitely just a matter of game play. In the Core Rule Book for playing the table top game, the spell schools and variety of spells is still the same as for DAO, so it is clear it is not a change in lore but simply a simplification of the game play. Personally, I would prefer a return to DAO spell schools, specialisations and being able to have one for every seven levels you rise but I won't be surprised if they stick to the DAI way of doing things in the future. As for actual lore changes, how much it annoys you depends on how much notice you pay to the lore in the first place. I know many people enjoy the game without getting too deeply immersed in the lore and don't really pay much attention to the codices, whereas I am a sucker for something to read and really take the trouble to find out as much as I can about the world I am playing in. I bought all the lore books before DAI but I am becoming somewhat less enthused about parting with my money in the future simply because the writers seem to change things if it fits the story they want to tell and justify the changes, if at all, with the unreliable narrator excuse. Now I can accept that to a certain extent when it comes to ancient history but it does become rather more annoying when it was lore we were living in the present. It infuriated me how the lore was changed with the Dalish and the 3-mage rule and then my elf character is being constantly told what the Dalish way of doing things is when I know that wasn't the case in previous games or in any lore I had read up to then. A further explanation is that the Dalish have "grown apart" over the years when the whole point of their culture and the 10 year gathering of the clans is to ensure they preserve their culture consistently and keep each other informed of anything new they have discovered. It is the whole justification for their way of life. Neither the change in the 3-mage rule or the "growing apart" made any sense in the context of Dalish culture and beliefs but the writers apparently either didn't realise this or didn't care. Another change that annoyed me, even though it is unlikely to impact on role playing my character, is the alteration of the name Qarinus to Ventus for no other reason than "some people" found in confusing with Qunari. Why not simply change the first letter to a K or C so it is spelled as it sounds? No, let's change it altogether, even though it was the name of one of the ancient kingdoms that was united into the Imperium and Dorian says how much their history and culture means to them, and then say it was changed as a result of a recent victory over the Qun. So, like the Dalish lore changes, this made no sense in the context of Tevinter culture. It was also odd that apparently no one knew about this up to DAI, even Dorian and Maevaris who were from Tevinter, but it was altered by the time of the comic series. What great victories had Tevinter had over the Qun in the last 5 years? Answer none. I'd also like a satisfactory explanation for the collective racial amnesia that seems to have taken place since ancient times, so everyone was blissfully unaware of the existence of the titans or the war the ancient elves had with them or the fact the Veil was an artificial construct, among other things. The dwarves preserve their history in stone and yet none of this is in there. I realise it was heavily hinted in the Decent that the Memories may have been doctored but I'd still like to know why? How did areas like the one we found in the Decent go unnoticed in the millennia before the Blight hit the dwarves? So, as I say, I was enthused about all the world building in the series originally but I every time they introduce something new like the above examples, just makes me feel it is not worth getting to heavily involved learning the lore. Now we have gone so long between games, it actually will bother me less if they do make wholesale changes next game because I think it would be better to treat it as starting from scratch. Luckily we are heading north into a totally different part of the world so it will not seem so glaringly obvious that changes have been made, names not withstanding, and I am also prepared to accept that anything we have been told previously, about Tevinter at least, was simply southern propaganda.
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Post by Buckeldemon on Jun 22, 2021 22:39:32 GMT
People respond to these changes in different ways, but I'm curious as to how people feel about it when it comes to the Dragon Age universe. I remember when Inquisition was on it's way to launch, and there was a sizable amount of outrage over the lack of healing spells. The change was - I believe - stated to be a lore based decision, though it's not hard to also see that it was also for gameplay purposes as well. The loss of healing spells wasn't really a lore-based decision; I think Bioware was just trying to address the constant complaints about having to drag along "the healer mage," even though that wasn't actually the case. So instead they switched over to a system of temporary HP (Guard and Barrier). Of course, given all the bellyaching over the "loss of healing," I guess we'll go back to healer mages and the associated moaning and complaining about how you have to take that one mmage everywhere because they're the healbot. I thought it was some devs or writers being annoyed by what they called "heal spam". I'm not sure I'm familiar enough with DA lore to even notice minutiae in canon deviation. Though I did notice that the static gender roles the Qunari have seem to be retconned. That was weird because it came out of nowhere. The amusing thing is, that despite some saying Weekes having done it to make the Qun "more inclusive" or something, it kinda creates an additional tier of sexism. As well as another identity tier. Not sure if that was helpful, given how some painfully normative peeps already have their heads 'sploding with regards to the sex vs. gender war. The Qun now seems to have three tiers: biological, social role (these two apparently don't need to be the same) and individual, which largely doesn't matter, because Qun. I don't know if Bioware thought about the reverse of Krem, i.e. a transwoman wanting to do military. I really want a return to the old school of magic the four that showed that magic had more uses than just combat. Primal, Entropy, Spirit, and Creation. I hate how they dumbed it down to rock paper scissors elements style, and only three of the elements at that with spirit providing a useful barrier spell to complement the respective element/specialization combination. Yeah, also wanna have back more subtle magic. Not everything is as flashy as fireball to the face or frozen solid, but still pretty useful even in combat encounters. Like sleep. 1) It infuriated me how the lore was changed with the Dalish and the 3-mage rule and then my elf character is being constantly told what the Dalish way of doing things is when I know that wasn't the case in previous games or in any lore I had read up to then. A further explanation is that the Dalish have "grown apart" over the years when the whole point of their culture and the 10 year gathering of the clans is to ensure they preserve their culture consistently and keep each other informed of anything new they have discovered. It is the whole justification for their way of life. Neither the change in the 3-mage rule or the "growing apart" made any sense in the context of Dalish culture and beliefs but the writers apparently either didn't realise this or didn't care.2) Luckily we are heading north into a totally different part of the world so it will not seem so glaringly obvious that changes have been made, names not withstanding, and I am also prepared to accept that anything we have been told previously, about Tevinter at least, was simply southern propaganda.
1) If I'm being uncharitable, I'd say it was intended, as in making the Dalish appear like evil mage kid abusers (and the templars/Chantry Circles - i.e. actual frequent mage kid abusers - their saviours, in Minaeve's lack-of-consistency case), probably to prop up something Circle. What they missed though is that shitting on group A does not make group B more attractive. It is just lazy and still doesn't really make an argument in favour of group B. See IhW/Fiona and "Brialene" for more examples, though the latter is more glaring omission of TME content.
2) That's kinda another issue I see creeping in since DAI. I'm not sure if the writers are sure what is their concept on the meta-level and what is in-universe/southern propaganda.
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Post by Gileadan on Jun 23, 2021 8:24:29 GMT
What's one more retcon in a BioWare game? This is a game set in a world where magic is viewed by great suspicion in several cultures, so much that its practicioners are outright jailed in some places, while warriors and rogues have magic-looking abilities (*SLAM-EARTHQUAKE!* *POOF!-INVIS...errm STEALTH*) that no one raises an eyebrow at. And hilarious decisions like replacing the heal-spamming mage with the barrier-spamming mage on top of that.
I think their problem is that their gameplay designers just don't talk to the lore team very often. Or they do and don't care. Or there's no time because crunch again.
I've come to treat every new Dragon Age game as a thing of its own that may or may not be similar to its predecessors. Sure, here's a little town named Redcliffe, just like the one in... no, wait, this looks kinda different. I don't pay attention to lore details anymore, it just got too convoluted without being interesting for me.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jun 23, 2021 8:56:48 GMT
People sure have a broad definition of "ret-con" in here. New technology or new magic/spells isn't a ret-con, revelations about the lore/history of the setting are not a ret-con, and gameplay changes are not a ret-con.
I don't have any feelings about "breaking canon" because I don't see any evidence of BioWare doing that, or indeed, of doing anything at all that is remotely outside the scope of any ordinary fantasy story.
I don't like the additon of "Barrier" and "Guard" because they merely function as extra hp bars and aren't mechanically different from healing at all. BioWare had a lot of other options they could have gone with instead to make support roles more fun and interesting. And if people feel "forced to take the healer everywhere", that sounds like a personal problem that only exists for the people who insist on playing harder difficulties, and I don't really care about them.
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Post by lk13 on Jun 23, 2021 9:17:53 GMT
The loss of healing spells wasn't really a lore-based decision; I think Bioware was just trying to address the constant complaints about having to drag along "the healer mage," even though that wasn't actually the case. So instead they switched over to a system of temporary HP (Guard and Barrier). Of course, given all the bellyaching over the "loss of healing," I guess we'll go back to healer mages and the associated moaning and complaining about how you have to take that one mmage everywhere because they're the healbot. This is just my experience, so I can't speak for everyone, but bringing healers in DA:O and DA2, even if wasn't necessary, it made the game much easier. I vividly remember the Jarvia bossfight in Origins, or those arcane horrors and revenants on Sundermount in 2. Without Wynne and Anders, especially on higher difficulties, I had to micromanage much more. With them on board, I could almost run the game on autopilot. I also liked the fact that you could only bring a certain number of potions and bombs with you in Inqusition, because in games I tend to drink up as many potions as I can in battles, and having to actually manage a limited number of potions made things more tense and interesting (again, at least for me). At the same time, I can agree I would have liked some minor healing spells in DA:I, in addition to Revival from the Spirit tree and Resurgence from the Knight Enchanter tree, like a slow health regeneration spell. Make it slower and last longer than the Health regen potion and I'd be on board with it. But anyway, yeah, I agree we're going to see healer mages again in DA4 in some shape or form.
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Post by mattjamho on Jun 23, 2021 9:29:12 GMT
Agreed, they should have focused on making support classes more interesting to play rather than just taking them out of the game. I like playing healers, especially when it comes to role playing a character.
As for breaking canon, I can’t think of an instance where BioWare have totally re-written something that wasn’t explained by having more information on the world, or presented as another perspective by new characters. As long as they can back up changes with in world answers and aren’t deviating to much from in world rules, I don’t really have an issue with it.
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Post by lk13 on Jun 23, 2021 9:39:57 GMT
What's one more retcon in a BioWare game? This is a game set in a world where magic is viewed by great suspicion in several cultures, so much that its practicioners are outright jailed in some places, while warriors and rogues have magic-looking abilities (*SLAM-EARTHQUAKE!* *POOF!-INVIS...errm STEALTH*) that no one raises an eyebrow at. And hilarious decisions like replacing the heal-spamming mage with the barrier-spamming mage on top of that. I think their problem is that their gameplay designers just don't talk to the lore team very often. Or they do and don't care. Or there's no time because crunch again. I've come to treat every new Dragon Age game as a thing of its own that may or may not be similar to its predecessors. Sure, here's a little town named Redcliffe, just like the one in... no, wait, this looks kinda different. I don't pay attention to lore details anymore, it just got too convoluted without being interesting for me. I think you're referring the (in)famous "ludonarrative dissonance", a term that was all the rage in game-related online discussion between 2015 and 2018, now replaced by "dad-ification of videogames" It's something present in many games, but I wouldn't necessarily call it a problem, since gameplay and lore always need to find a sort of compromise and always end up diverging somewhat (but I applaud the effort of developers trying to reduce this divergence). DA:Origins, for example, sets even a single abomination as an incredibly dangerous foe, capable of destroying an entire village - and yet you kill scores of them without many problems in the Ferelden Circle of Magi's tower. Or going to other games, all these descriptions of monsters in the Witcher's bestiaries that are supposed to be dangerous foes even for an experienced Witcher - and yet Geralt can just slash them down without many complications, even quickly if he drinks the right potions and such. Or bears being actually more dangerous and scary than dragons in Skyrim. It's everywhere, but it's not that much of an issue in my eyes, because, again, you need to find a compromise at some point between lore and gameplay, so I don't care that much. In fact, if it makes the gameplay better, actually go for earth-shattering swords and invisibility stealth flasks.
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Post by Gileadan on Jun 23, 2021 10:14:34 GMT
What's one more retcon in a BioWare game? This is a game set in a world where magic is viewed by great suspicion in several cultures, so much that its practicioners are outright jailed in some places, while warriors and rogues have magic-looking abilities (*SLAM-EARTHQUAKE!* *POOF!-INVIS...errm STEALTH*) that no one raises an eyebrow at. And hilarious decisions like replacing the heal-spamming mage with the barrier-spamming mage on top of that. I think their problem is that their gameplay designers just don't talk to the lore team very often. Or they do and don't care. Or there's no time because crunch again. I've come to treat every new Dragon Age game as a thing of its own that may or may not be similar to its predecessors. Sure, here's a little town named Redcliffe, just like the one in... no, wait, this looks kinda different. I don't pay attention to lore details anymore, it just got too convoluted without being interesting for me. I think you're referring the (in)famous "ludonarrative dissonance", a term that was all the rage in game-related online discussion between 2015 and 2018, now replaced by "dad-ification of videogames" It's something present in many games, but I wouldn't necessarily call it a problem, since gameplay and lore always need to find a sort of compromise and always end up diverging somewhat (but I applaud the effort of developers trying to reduce this divergence). DA:Origins, for example, sets even a single abomination as an incredibly dangerous foe, capable of destroying an entire village - and yet you kill scores of them without many problems in the Ferelden Circle of Magi's tower. Or going to other games, all these descriptions of monsters in the Witcher's bestiaries that are supposed to be dangerous foes even for an experienced Witcher - and yet Geralt can just slash them down without many complications, even quickly if he drinks the right potions and such. Or bears being actually more dangerous and scary than dragons in Skyrim. It's everywhere, but it's not that much of an issue in my eyes, because, again, you need to find a compromise at some point between lore and gameplay, so I don't care that much. In fact, if it makes the gameplay better, actually go for earth-shattering swords and invisibility stealth flasks. My main point was that BioWare games are so inconsistent regarding their own lore that looking for retcons is a bit of a lost cause since there will always be things that don't make sense, changed from the last game or don't match the codex description. It is more than ludonarrative dissonance. No game can't fully escape that because compromises have to be made to keep it playable and enjoyable. Sure, an abomination could probably kill dozens and dozens of villagers, but a band of adventurers could likely do the same if so inclined, meaning that their levels of dangerousness might not be that far apart. What BioWare did was something else: they set up a major conflict in their world around the use of magic, where magic was so distrusted that whenever some poor scared farm girl accidentally set fire to their neighbour's dachshund everyone pulled out their DorianTech Mk.2 smartphone and called 0-800-TEMPLAR. But no one cares when warriors shake the ground with a swing of the blade or rogues go poof because everyone somehow knows it's not real magic. It devalues the entire mundanes vs mages storyline when in some weird way actually everyone in your group does flashy mage-like things. And that gives me the feeling that BioWare themselves doesn't care that much about the lore. Of course it might make the gameplay better, I'm all for letting my enemies disappear into a rift in the ground if I can just swing that hammer hard enough It just doesn't go super well with that mage templar conflict storyline.
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Post by coldsteelblue on Jun 23, 2021 10:45:02 GMT
As a writer myself I've gotta say I despise retcons in all their glory (or lack thereof) as to me it shows disrespect to the franchise, do the research & build based on that, yes, there are times things evolve & change, like a new leader can enact reforms, but to outright go, it's this now, sucks & to me shows serious laziness.
Bioware do this a lot with Dragon Age, moreso than any of their other franchises I believe & I also see them chasing current political (mostly left wing) trends & trying to crowbar them into the game (my opinion)
Following established canon is how you worldbuild & character build solidly & drive things forward.
That's my opinion on this.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jun 23, 2021 13:18:10 GMT
Aaaaand of course it turns to accusations of SJW pandering.
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Post by arvaarad on Jun 23, 2021 15:14:34 GMT
The older I get, the less bothered I am by retcons in any piece of media. A lot of things that were true about myself when I was younger are no longer true about me now, and that’s a good thing. That includes things in my past; not because the events themselves get rewritten, but because my interpretation of them changes, sometimes dramatically, as I get more information.
Among other things, younger me was much more cavalier with throwing around “always” and “never” type statements. If those get broken later in my life, does that mean I retconned myself? No, it means past me didn’t see the whole picture. And this isn’t a “kids are dumb” thing, the same thing continues to happen even into adulthood. People are continuously getting more data over time, and their stories (whether nonfictional or fictional) grow with them.
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Post by necrowaif on Jun 23, 2021 19:44:22 GMT
There's always going to be ideas presented early in any fictional series that clashes with what's presented later on as the series finds its footing. TV Tropes calls this Early Installment Weirdness; the page image is Batman with a gun, which he used back in the 30s. Obviously that doesn't jive with the "Batman hates guns" characterization he received later on. Some examples of Early Installment Weirdness are things like Alistair insisting that lyrium isn't necessary for templars to use their powers. That got retconned out of existence; now Templars definitely need lyrium, though the quantity they require is up for debate. There are other kinds of retcons, of course. Some are just the result of intellectual properties changing hands, new writers coming on board, cultural values shifting, etc. For the most part, it's no big deal when a minor part of the lore or a mechanic gets changed if it's in service to a good story. But it is possible for Retcons to challenge the audience's willing suspension of disbelief, especially if you're challenging beloved aspects of the lore. If, say, BioWare retconned darkspawn into alien invaders who came from another dimension and are created via cloning vats buried deep beneath the surface, that would be crossing the line.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jun 24, 2021 3:21:55 GMT
There's always going to be ideas presented early in any fictional series that clashes with what's presented later on as the series finds its footing. TV Tropes calls this Early Installment Weirdness; the page image is Batman with a gun, which he used back in the 30s. Obviously that doesn't jive with the "Batman hates guns" characterization he received later on. Some examples of Early Installment Weirdness are things like Alistair insisting that lyrium isn't necessary for templars to use their powers. That got retconned out of existence; now Templars definitely need lyrium, though the quantity they require is up for debate. There are other kinds of retcons, of course. Some are just the result of intellectual properties changing hands, new writers coming on board, cultural values shifting, etc. For the most part, it's no big deal when a minor part of the lore or a mechanic gets changed if it's in service to a good story. But it is possible for Retcons to challenge the audience's willing suspension of disbelief, especially if you're challenging beloved aspects of the lore. If, say, BioWare retconned darkspawn into alien invaders who came from another dimension and are created via cloning vats buried deep beneath the surface, that would be crossing the line. I actually don't think that Darkspawn example would count as a retcon. There's plenty of scope for that to be true, without conflicting with the lore. There's already vague hints to possible other dimensions, and the lore says that the elven god Ghanilla Vanilla or whatever her name is created creatures via experiments.
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Post by duskwanderer on Jun 24, 2021 3:35:54 GMT
As a rule, I dislike retcons. It implies, if not outright states, that the writer cannot adhere to the fiction. A gameplay mechanic isn't really a retcon, otherwise I'd have to believe that the Warden and Hawke were incapable of jumping.
But when it comes to lore retcons, there are ways to handle it. Take the vallaslin for instance. I'm not sure the Dalish were designed with the vallaslin being slave markings, but if they weren't, then this is a well-done one: Dalish do not know their history due to it being cobbled together from bits and pieces, and don't understand the true nature of what they meant. Therefore, the fact that it changed can be addressed in lore. The hornless qunari are another: It was an engine limitation, but they got around it by saying the lack of horns are a birth quirk, or that the horns might be removed.
However, there are bad ways to handle it. The Aqun-athlok nonsense applies: Sten is adamant that under the qun, women do certain things and men do others. It might vary based on skill, but men did not run shops and women did not fight in the army. Then it was changed to add transgender because it was fashionable, not due to any reason in the lore. It's impossible to think that someone as highly positioned as Sten wouldn't know about it. It was done for real-world reasons, and thus, the verisimilitude was ruined.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jun 24, 2021 4:22:48 GMT
Nearly the first thing Sten says to a female warden is something along the lines of "I don't understand, you're a warrior, but you *look like* a woman", and since none of the female characters ever claim to identify as men, we have no way of knowing how Sten would have reacted if they had. But regardless, Sten doesn't say "you are a woman", he specifically says "you *look like* a woman", meaning Sten was open to the possibility that a female warden *might be a man*.
The player is never given any opportunity at all to question Sten about gender roles under the Qun, or how he thinks women and men are defined, there's actually no concrete evidence that he bases it on biology at all.
And in any case, learning that the leaders Qun might be violating their own laws/mores when it suits them to do so (ie, someone with a vagina turns put to be super good at punching) is no more a retcon than the Chantry turning a blind eye to Vivienne swanning around Orlais because rich boyfriend. Hypocrisy isn't a retcon, it's just hypocrisy.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jun 24, 2021 5:12:55 GMT
Also, Origins literally tells players in the CC that they won't face any "meaningful sexism" if they opt to play as a woman. Well I don't know how women feel about it, but having a party member whose whole entire schtick is telling you to put down the sword and go fix him a sammich seems like pretty "meaningful" sexism to me.
Where's the uproar about THAT retcon?
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Post by necrowaif on Jun 24, 2021 6:53:47 GMT
The first darkspawn were the Seven, so the time for darkspawn to be alien cloners from Dimension X has passed.
It’s certainly possible that the Blight - the corrupting force that gives the darkspawn life and empowers red lyrium - is otherworldly, however.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jun 24, 2021 8:07:32 GMT
The first darkspawn were the Seven, so the time for darkspawn to be alien cloners from Dimension X has passed. It’s certainly possible that the Blight - the corrupting force that gives the darkspawn life and empowers red lyrium - is otherworldly, however. I don't think the first Darkspawn WERE the Seven, but I do think they were much rarer. Corypheus has a line in DA2 Legacy where he mentions "The Spawn", which I think can only be referring to Darkspawn, and at the time of his awakening he doesn't seem to have any memory/understanding of what happened to him and what he has become. He also doesn't seem to know about the blights, because he invokes Dumat, and if he had been aware of the Blights, he would know Dumat was corrupted and/or dead. There's also elven myths that talk about the evanuris tampering with and fighting over a dark power and/or weapon that I think refers to the Taint, and if they WERE playing around with Taint, then there's absolutely no way that it didn't spread to other living things and create Darkspawn, and we know that Darkspawn, when left to their own devices, become essentially immortal, so I think there's a lot of scope for Darkspawn to have pre-dated the Seven, and I think DA4 will state that explicitly. And yes, I would like very much for the corrupting force in question to turn out to be from another dimension or an alien virus from a meteor or something.
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Post by samurailink on Jun 24, 2021 10:07:41 GMT
A gameplay mechanic isn't really a retcon, otherwise I'd have to believe that the Warden and Hawke were incapable of jumping. Neither hero has ever jumped. The stone knows those two are too important to let fall into the sky and thus don't risk it on silly things like gravity.
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