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Post by Buckeldemon on Jun 26, 2021 13:44:31 GMT
You're dealing with clans who have problems in the immediate sense: Hawen's clan has their mages killed by demons right then and there. The Clan's Keeper from Redemption had it's Keeper kidnapped right then. Magic exists, but you can't teleport. The clan has to deal with the problem then replace their mages. Again, it sounds like your dislike of the Chantry is coloring your opinion on Minaeve. Let's try to base the decisions on lore and not personal grievance. Well, now I don't follow. It was just a rundown of clans usually not having so many mages that tossing some out for this reason would even be considered. Hawen's second apprentice tried to prove something and fumbled a ritual as far as I recall. Taven (the First) lead an expedition to Din'an Hanin until his group was killed by a bunch of Venatori and Red templars. No "stupid evil demon summoner" point to be had for him, sorry.
It is nothing new to me that essentially parroting Chantry rhetoric is never seen as "bias" or an issue in terms of "lore", only pointing out how Chantry rhetoric and attitude creeps onto the meta-level ever is.
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Post by duskwanderer on Jun 26, 2021 13:49:02 GMT
You're dealing with clans who have problems in the immediate sense: Hawen's clan has their mages killed by demons right then and there. The Clan's Keeper from Redemption had it's Keeper kidnapped right then. Magic exists, but you can't teleport. The clan has to deal with the problem then replace their mages. Again, it sounds like your dislike of the Chantry is coloring your opinion on Minaeve. Let's try to base the decisions on lore and not personal grievance. Well, now I don't follow. It was just a rundown of clans usually not having so many mages that tossing some out for this reason would even be considered. Hawen's second apprentice tried to prove something and fumbled a ritual as far as I recall. Taven (the First) lead an expedition to Din'an Hanin until his group was killed by a bunch of Venatori and Red templars. No "stupid evil demon summoner" point to be had for him, sorry.
It is nothing new to me that essentially parroting Chantry rhetoric is never seen as "bias" or an issue in terms of "lore", only pointing out how Chantry rhetoric and attitude creeps onto the meta-level ever is. Utterly irrelevant. That the First was killed by bandits and the Second was killed by demons means very little. They happen in a very short period of time, days or weeks. My advice about in-game rhetoric is that if you can't handle it without your personal biases getting in the way, you should try to avoid using a warped interpretation. I have my issues as to the Qun as to why I believe it's wrong, but the people of the Qun don't see it like I do.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jun 26, 2021 14:13:59 GMT
Coming up next, it's everyone's favourite: "My Interpretation of the Lore is Objective and Your Interpretation of the Lore is Sissy Left-Wing Bias", by the VIDYAGAEM DEFENDERS!!! WHOOYEAH!!!
Don't change that dial, we're playing ALL the classics, here on BFFM, that's Bad Faith FM, brought to you by our sponsors, Triple-K Bleach and Second Amend-Mint Gum! Let the freshness BLOW YOU AWAY!!!
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Post by SofaJockey on Jun 26, 2021 14:30:00 GMT
With Tevinter as a setting does that mean we'll see more Qunari (because it's closer) or fewer Qunari (because it's Tevinter)?
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jun 26, 2021 14:33:52 GMT
With Tevinter as a setting does that mean we'll see more Qunari (because it's closer) or fewer Qunari (because it's Tevinter)? Less Qunari. The same number as every game, but smaller.
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Post by SofaJockey on Jun 26, 2021 14:35:54 GMT
Less Qunari. The same number as every game, but smaller. I considered 'less' but would small Qunari be a form of 'qunwashing' disrespecting the dwarves?
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Post by Buckeldemon on Jun 26, 2021 15:02:20 GMT
Well, now I don't follow. It was just a rundown of clans usually not having so many mages that tossing some out for this reason would even be considered. Hawen's second apprentice tried to prove something and fumbled a ritual as far as I recall. Taven (the First) lead an expedition to Din'an Hanin until his group was killed by a bunch of Venatori and Red templars. No "stupid evil demon summoner" point to be had for him, sorry.
It is nothing new to me that essentially parroting Chantry rhetoric is never seen as "bias" or an issue in terms of "lore", only pointing out how Chantry rhetoric and attitude creeps onto the meta-level ever is. Utterly irrelevant. That the First was killed by bandits and the Second was killed by demons means very little. They happen in a very short period of time, days or weeks. My advice about in-game rhetoric is that if you can't handle it without your personal biases getting in the way, you should try to avoid using a warped interpretation. I have my issues as to the Qun as to why I believe it's wrong, but the people of the Qun don't see it like I do. I wrote Venatori/Red templars. Where do the bandits come from with regards to Taven? Heck, goalpost chasing is usually unfunny, but whatever this is here tops it.
Cannot handle ingame rhetoric? Gimme me a damn break. I dare even say I recognise it when I see it. Some players apparently don't, hence the 1:1 adoption of some talking points, espcially andrastian ones. As in "filling groups with mages". Is it surprising? No, given how many in-game sources are written by Chantry scholars and how their views are enforced and how players like to jump to andrastians as "us". Doesn't mean it isn't kinda "warped", eh?
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jun 26, 2021 15:03:01 GMT
Less Qunari. The same number as every game, but smaller. I considered 'less' but would small Qunari be a form of 'qunwashing' disrespecting the dwarves? It's height appropriation is what it is, and I won't stand for it! You can't just throw open the tiny doors to anyone who merely claims to be short! There need to be rigorous processes in place to make sure that nefarious tall individuals aren't just pretending to be short in order to gain access to small spaces!
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Post by SofaJockey on Jun 26, 2021 15:04:25 GMT
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 26, 2021 17:30:26 GMT
With Tevinter as a setting does that mean we'll see more Qunari (because it's closer) or fewer Qunari (because it's Tevinter)? More, without question. The Qun is currently invading it after all. Now how they’ll be depicted is another matter. Some content has them acting out of character one way, such as being nice to mages, while others have them acting out of character in other ways, like massacring civilians despite them not killing them before since can be converted.
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Post by duskwanderer on Jun 26, 2021 18:31:01 GMT
Utterly irrelevant. That the First was killed by bandits and the Second was killed by demons means very little. They happen in a very short period of time, days or weeks. My advice about in-game rhetoric is that if you can't handle it without your personal biases getting in the way, you should try to avoid using a warped interpretation. I have my issues as to the Qun as to why I believe it's wrong, but the people of the Qun don't see it like I do. I wrote Venatori/Red templars. Where do the bandits come from with regards to Taven? Heck, goalpost chasing is usually unfunny, but whatever this is here tops it.
Cannot handle ingame rhetoric? Gimme me a damn break. I dare even say I recognise it when I see it. Some players apparently don't, hence the 1:1 adoption of some talking points, espcially andrastian ones. As in "filling groups with mages". Is it surprising? No, given how many in-game sources are written by Chantry scholars and how their views are enforced and how players like to jump to andrastians as "us". Doesn't mean it isn't kinda "warped", eh? Again, it sounds like your extreme hatred of the Chantry is warping your discussion. I'd be happy to have a discussion if you can set your really odd warped view of it aside.
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Post by Gileadan on Jun 26, 2021 18:37:40 GMT
With Tevinter as a setting does that mean we'll see more Qunari (because it's closer) or fewer Qunari (because it's Tevinter)? More, without question. The Qun is currently invading it after all. Now how they’ll be depicted is another matter. Some content has them acting out of character one way, such as being nice to mages, while others have them acting out of character in other ways, like massacring civilians despite them not killing them before since can be converted. Heh. At this point, who can say with certainty what's in or out of character for the Qun anymore? Who knows, we might discover more hitherto unknown sides to them - unknown even to Qunari characters we encountered in previous games.
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Post by xerrai on Jun 26, 2021 18:48:11 GMT
With Tevinter as a setting does that mean we'll see more Qunari (because it's closer) or fewer Qunari (because it's Tevinter)? If by "qunari" we mean the horned race, then I expect more. Aside from the escalating war, Qunari slaves were considered in vogue within one of the comics. I believe there was also a mention of several Tal-Vashoth joining the wardens as of late as well. How much we'll see remains to be seen, but war cutscenes aside, I think odds are good we'll see more than usual. But if by "Qunari" you mean followers of the Qun, then there is definitely going to be more. Converts are noted to be a constant problem in Tevinter--particularly among its elven slaves. The Qunari likely have a great deal of vidathari spies in operation at any given time.
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Post by SofaJockey on Jun 26, 2021 18:53:44 GMT
If by "qunari" we mean the horned race if by "Qunari" you mean followers of the Qun... An excellent distinction. I had meant the horned race, but you're quite right about other followers of the qun (all qunari). Are the qunari like the protheans? Off-topic I suspect.
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Post by bierkrug on Jun 26, 2021 19:17:48 GMT
Is red lyrium growing out of Fiona in the bad future a canon break? Shouldn't she be immune to all things blighted? I wonder why Patrick feels so compelled to use his creative work as a vehicle for his own politics and beliefs? I've never heard of an author ever doing that before. It's unprofessional. This isn't his personal pet project.
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Post by Buckeldemon on Jun 26, 2021 19:19:11 GMT
I wrote Venatori/Red templars. Where do the bandits come from with regards to Taven? Heck, goalpost chasing is usually unfunny, but whatever this is here tops it. Cannot handle ingame rhetoric? Gimme me a damn break. I dare even say I recognise it when I see it. Some players apparently don't, hence the 1:1 adoption of some talking points, espcially andrastian ones. As in "filling groups with mages". Is it surprising? No, given how many in-game sources are written by Chantry scholars and how their views are enforced and how players like to jump to andrastians as "us". Doesn't mean it isn't kinda "warped", eh? Again, it sounds like your extreme hatred of the Chantry is warping your discussion. I'd be happy to have a discussion if you can set your really odd warped view of it aside. I fnd it pretty funny that not buying into/adopting andrastian rhetoric is supposed to be odd or "warped". But now it is apparently "extreme hatred" already. Not gonna waste any effort with that. Qunari puns are more funny anway. 1) Is red lyrium growing out of Fiona in the bad future a canon break? Shouldn't she be immune to all things blighted? I wonder why Patrick feels so compelled to use his creative work as a vehicle for his own politics and beliefs? I've never heard of an author ever doing that before. 2) It's unprofessional. This isn't his personal pet project. 1) Huh, never thought about that. Perhaps Bioware also did not remember that when writing that art. I mean, DAI Fiona is pretty much out-of-character/bad Envy demon copy anyway.
2) Well, if the rest of the team was on board with it? Though I think it is kinda absurd anyway. I bet that those complaining about "woke politics" in games would not have much of an issue with "unwoke politics", and I guess there are games satisfying that demand.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 26, 2021 19:21:37 GMT
Is red lyrium growing out of Fiona in the bad future a canon break? Shouldn't she be immune to all things blighted? She had the Taint removed from her, so no she's no different than anyone else who isn't a Grey Warden.
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Post by bierkrug on Jun 26, 2021 20:00:38 GMT
She had the Taint removed from her, so no she's no different than anyone else who isn't a Grey Warden. Fiona says it in Inquisition. She became immune to the taint and couldn't be reinitiated. The Joining didn't work on her, which was what ultimately led to her leaving the order.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 26, 2021 20:47:38 GMT
Fiona says it in Inquisition. She became immune to the taint and couldn't be reinitiated. The Joining didn't work on her, which was what ultimately led to her leaving the order. I think there is a difference between having the Blight and having a substance infected with the blight growing on you. Essentially the red lyrium is drawing substance from the organic being and growing through them. It is possible that in Fiona's case, and that of any mage used to "grow" the red lyrium, that the red lyrium is drawing on the magic/lyrium in the mage's blood. However, we know from the activities of Imshael in the Emprise du Leon that any organic being can be used in this way, as confirmed by an Inquisition researcher who says they found even the microbes in the soil had been affected.
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Post by necrowaif on Jun 26, 2021 20:48:03 GMT
Red lyrium has properties beyond the regular darkspawn corruption. Obviously Fiona's accidental immunization from the Arcitect's amulet wasn't sufficent to protect her against red lyrium growing inside of her like a cancer.
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Post by smilesja on Jun 26, 2021 21:59:25 GMT
Coming up next, it's everyone's favourite: "My Interpretation of the Lore is Objective and Your Interpretation of the Lore is Sissy Left-Wing Bias", by the VIDYAGAEM DEFENDERS!!! WHOOYEAH!!! Now who's saying that exactly?
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Jun 26, 2021 22:25:49 GMT
Red lyrium has properties beyond the regular darkspawn corruption. Obviously Fiona's accidental immunization from the Arcitect's amulet wasn't sufficent to protect her against red lyrium growing inside of her like a cancer. This was my take on it as well. Was it Bianca or Varric that had some kind of comment about “Red Lyrium makes the regular (blue) stuff look harmless”? <—- not the words they used, but it has been a really long time.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jun 26, 2021 23:20:01 GMT
Is red lyrium growing out of Fiona in the bad future a canon break? Shouldn't she be immune to all things blighted? I wonder why Patrick feels so compelled to use his creative work as a vehicle for his own politics and beliefs? I've never heard of an author ever doing that before. It's unprofessional. This isn't his personal pet project. You wouldn't be saying that if it was politics you happened to agree with, you've made that incredibly obvious, and in any case Patrick doesn't get the last word on what does and does not go into the games, nor did David Gaider when he was the lead writer. There are people above him who make the final decisions on all content. Furthermore, being the lead writer, while making him well placed to explain why certain decisions were made, does not mean that a trans character was Patrick's idea, or that he wrote them personally. In fact, if I recall correctly, Patrick was not the lead writer of Inquisition, because Gaider didn't leave the company until the narrative for the base game was finalised. Krem is also not the first known trans character to exist in the world of Dragon Age. Maevaris, from the side comics, is, and those were authored by Gaider. If anything, Patrick's politics are irrelevent. Trans people were and are going to be in the games anyway.
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Post by SofaJockey on Jun 26, 2021 23:51:35 GMT
Tune in into RL politics for one sec It's a fair point that 'woke' is used fairly indiscriminately. I think I shall recant my perception of some users of the term and edit my point accordingly.
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Post by smilesja on Jun 27, 2021 0:48:00 GMT
Soooo this thread:
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