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Post by gaycaravaggio on Jul 27, 2021 2:56:49 GMT
The World of Thedas Volume 2 had some interesting details about what lands may be outside of Thedas. Here's a link to more information on them.
There's definitely some lead-up to plotlines involving The Executors for DA4, but how much do you think they'll talk about lands beyond Thedas? How much do you want them to get into that?
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Post by necrowaif on Jul 27, 2021 3:05:03 GMT
Personally, not at all. This is our first trip into northern Thedas - we’ve never gotten, game wise, farther than the Free Marches. I’d like to see what Tevinter and Antiva have to offer before I worry about lands beyond Thedas.
In short, let’s save Northrend and Pandaria for when Azeroth has been thoroughly explored.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jul 27, 2021 3:47:34 GMT
All that stuff sounds way more interesting than Thedas ever was or ever could be, which I have to assume means we will never, ever see any if it. BioWare has very strange ideas about where the actually interesting and fun parts of their world actually are.
I've always preferred far more fantastical/extreme/hostile settings in my fantasy. It's a constant source of disappointment that Thedas is so paint-by-numbers, and if I have to hear "But they're SUBVERTING fantasy tropes!" one more time, I will not be held responsible for my actions.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jul 27, 2021 8:04:38 GMT
There is the possibility they could link the Executors to one of these previously mentioned lands beyond Thedas. My money would be on the Par Ladi if that was the case. We have been discussing elsewhere, though, the fact that the humans were always said to have arrived by ship from somewhere else, as did the Qunari. So dealing with the origins of both these races wouldn't be out of the question, bearing in mind they have already expanded on elven and dwarven lore in DAI and its DLC. To be honest, that would be a good way of introducing the idea of exploration beyond Thedas in DA5 (assuming there is one). Clearly there are other civilisations out there and I would love to visit them.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jul 28, 2021 17:47:05 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2021 20:22:47 GMT
Who invited Rian Johnson?
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jul 28, 2021 23:29:57 GMT
Rian Johnson didn't subvert anything, but whatever.
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Post by Gwydden on Jul 28, 2021 23:36:30 GMT
Piecing together stuff various devs have said over the years, DA:I and DA4 were originally supposed to be one game, plot-wise, and DA2 was conceived essentially as an extended prologue to that game, being first thought of as a DA:O expansion before being developed into its own game. The DA series at large was meant to be a series of standalone stories in the same universe, more like Discworld than, say, The Wheel of Time. Moreover, we know that the devs already have at least a general idea of what DA5 and possibly DA6 would be about, and that the intention is (or at least was) for DA4 to wrap up the Solas plot.
I bring this all up because if we think of this "Solas plot" as the basis for the DA2-DA4 arc—which was originally supposed to be a single sequel to DA:O, remember—and that's ending in DA4, one has to wonder what the next "arc" will be about. The darkspawn seem old hat now, the Qunari invasion and Tevinter revolution plots look like they'll be dealt with next game, the Mage/Templar conflict has grown thoroughly exhausting... My point is, this Executor stuff, as well as the other hints about lands beyond Thedas, could be setup for what comes after Solas, similar to how we see tentative hints for the "Solas plot" in DA:O and DA2.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jul 29, 2021 0:02:41 GMT
Piecing together stuff various devs have said over the years, DA:I and DA4 were originally supposed to be one game, plot-wise, and DA2 was conceived essentially as an extended prologue to that game, being first thought of as a DA:O expansion before being developed into its own game. The DA series at large was meant to be a series of standalone stories in the same universe, more like Discworld than, say, The Wheel of Time. Moreover, we know that the devs already have at least a general idea of what DA5 and possibly DA6 would be about, and that the intention is (or at least was) for DA4 to wrap up the Solas plot. I bring this all up because if we think of this "Solas plot" as the basis for the DA2-DA4 arc—which was originally supposed to be a single sequel to DA:O, remember—and that's ending in DA4, one has to wonder what the next "arc" will be about. The darkspawn seem old hat now, the Qunari invasion and Tevinter revolution plots look like they'll be dealt with next game, the Mage/Templar conflict has grown thoroughly exhausting... My point is, this Executor stuff, as well as the other hints about lands beyond Thedas, could be setup for what comes after Solas, similar to how we see tentative hints for the "Solas plot" in DA:O and DA2. Assuming the series continues after DA4, I'd go so far as to say that moving out of Thedas is basically required. The existential nature of the Veil plotline basically demands it. Either it comes down and alters the setting forever, or it stays where it is, which would essentially be an admission on the part of the writers that the setting is never going to change or develop in any significant way. But whatever the outcome, where do you go after facing down the god-wizard who is single-handedly responsible for making your world the way it currently is?
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Post by andydandymandy on Aug 8, 2021 7:04:06 GMT
Maybe focusing more on characters and story and less on "the setting" might be a way to go?
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Post by SirSourpuss on Aug 8, 2021 8:01:33 GMT
Maybe focusing more on characters and story and less on "the setting" might be a way to go? Nah. Just yeet them all, for the next one.
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Post by gaycaravaggio on Aug 8, 2021 16:42:38 GMT
Maybe focusing more on characters and story and less on "the setting" might be a way to go? INB4 people go on about how the characters from Inquisition were no good, very bad characters because of whatever hateboner they have.
You can find another thread to talk about the characters.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Aug 8, 2021 23:24:32 GMT
Maybe focusing more on characters and story and less on "the setting" might be a way to go? The characters could be worthy of Tolstoy and I would still critique the world for being stagnant and not expanding. I shouldn't have to choose.
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Post by andydandymandy on Aug 9, 2021 0:08:29 GMT
Maybe focusing more on characters and story and less on "the setting" might be a way to go? The characters could be worthy of Tolstoy and I would still critique the world for being stagnant and not expanding. I shouldn't have to choose. Dude, we've had three games and every single one of them has had a different protagonist and was set in a new land for us to play in, and has retconned or added new shit to the lore. ALL THEY DO is expand the setting. I am not sure what you are talking about.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Aug 9, 2021 2:45:45 GMT
The characters could be worthy of Tolstoy and I would still critique the world for being stagnant and not expanding. I shouldn't have to choose. Dude, we've had three games and every single one of them has had a different protagonist and was set in a new land for us to play in, and has retconned or added new shit to the lore. ALL THEY DO is expand the setting. I am not sure what you are talking about.
I'm talking about actually changing things, like ending the magic vs religious twaddle debate, or having the veil come down and stay down, or moving beyond the continent and the rule of the Chantry and encountering new people. Other people want a game set in every country before we move on, I don't. I don't see the point in it. It's pretty clear that every country in Thedas is just gonna be "more semi-Europe".
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Post by fairdragon on Aug 9, 2021 7:48:49 GMT
Dude, we've had three games and every single one of them has had a different protagonist and was set in a new land for us to play in, and has retconned or added new shit to the lore. ALL THEY DO is expand the setting. I am not sure what you are talking about.
I'm talking about actually changing things, like ending the magic vs religious twaddle debate, or having the veil come down and stay down, or moving beyond the continent and the rule of the Chantry and encountering new people. Other people want a game set in every country before we move on, I don't. I don't see the point in it. It's pretty clear that every country in Thedas is just gonna be "more semi-Europe". I am one of the "other people". I guess what you mean. But is your dream more like skyrim (Beastmen) or have you an exemple what you mean. Because i want to stay in Thedas to see more of the different cultures.
And you are wrong only the southeast is europe. Sorry if i take your words to serious. Nevarra is Egypt, Anderfels remind me of the Sahara and Tevinter i don't know, for me there is little like it.
So i ask myself what does pessimistpanda want. Because every civilization always remains a civilization first. It is a city or a group of people.
I think in DA7 or DA8 we can go beyond Thedas. If the veil doesn't come down and change everything.
I want to see antiva and nevarra in a game for itself.
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 9, 2021 14:07:04 GMT
Tevinter i don't know, for me there is little like it. To be honest, Panda has a point. Once they moved to Tevinter I was hoping for something original and exotic but the people in Tevinter Nights don't seem that different from the people down south, the power structure is basically Orlais with magic and the clothing (according to WoT) is dark and frankly rather cliched looking for a nation of wizard and witches. I was hoping for bright, vibrant colours and long flowing robes, more Arabic or sub-Saharan than just a somewhat dowdy version of Orlais. Dorian's outfits looked promising but he is meant to be a rebel against conformity. Alexius and Felix had colour but their outfits reminded me of court jesters. The Grand Necropolis may be reminiscent of Egypt but the rest of the culture seems just more of the same to what we know down south. The Mortalitasi were founded by a Tevinter mage, so if anything there ought to be something similar in the architecture as we go north. Anderfels remind me of the Sahara It is a desert wasteland but that could be anywhere. In our world they can be hot deserts or cold deserts, according to what happens when the seasons change. The Western Approach was arid but that is as far as it went and to be honest the concept art, if as seems likely it is of the Anderfels, doesn't really look that different to what we experienced down south. However, it is possible we will see something original connected with it in DA4 with regard to the inhabitants. They did a pretty good job with the Avvar so that they were distinctly different from the lowlanders, so hopefully up north we will find something similar either in the Anderfels or on the island of Seheron (assuming that we go there). Rivain with its seers always seemed promising but there doesn't seem any likelihood of us visiting there in DA4, based on the concept art.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2021 22:11:25 GMT
Rian Johnson didn't subvert anything, but whatever. Sure. Redefine words less.
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Post by fairdragon on Aug 10, 2021 8:46:47 GMT
Tevinter i don't know, for me there is little like it. To be honest, Panda has a point. Once they moved to Tevinter I was hoping for something original and exotic but the people in Tevinter Nights don't seem that different from the people down south, the power structure is basically Orlais with magic and the clothing (according to WoT) is dark and frankly rather cliched looking for a nation of wizard and witches. I was hoping for bright, vibrant colours and long flowing robes, more Arabic or sub-Saharan than just a somewhat dowdy version of Orlais. Dorian's outfits looked promising but he is meant to be a rebel against conformity. Alexius and Felix had colour but their outfits reminded me of court jesters. I haven't read Tevinter Nights, but i have look the Story on youtube up. And what we see in the Teaser is the Tevinter we know so far (my opinion). power structure is power structer there are few differents, but that's it. Where did you get the bright, vibrant colours from? Tevinter was allways dark, most likely black in my head. The Grand Necropolis may be reminiscent of Egypt but the rest of the culture seems just more of the same to what we know down south. The Mortalitasi were founded by a Tevinter mage, so if anything there ought to be something similar in the architecture as we go north. Here again you pointed to the power structer and also the religion. A pharaoh or a royalty doesn't matter. The mortalitasi and their worship of the dead is very different from the southeast. sorry but i don't get your point. Anderfels remind me of the Sahara It is a desert wasteland but that could be anywhere. In our world they can be hot deserts or cold deserts, according to what happens when the seasons change. The Western Approach was arid but that is as far as it went and to be honest the concept art, if as seems likely it is of the Anderfels, doesn't really look that different to what we experienced down south. However, it is possible we will see something original connected with it in DA4 with regard to the inhabitants. They did a pretty good job with the Avvar so that they were distinctly different from the lowlanders, so hopefully up north we will find something similar either in the Anderfels or on the island of Seheron (assuming that we go there). Rivain with its seers always seemed promising but there doesn't seem any likelihood of us visiting there in DA4, based on the concept art. Yes, i understand. But we have only see the warden in anderfels and they are not native. i hope for a native anderfels culture, arabic, african, american or asien like.
So you mean with different only a different religion and power structer.
The only thing what make the Avvar different is the greek like religion, a bit simular to the delish-elven belive.
can you please explain it to me in more detail when you have the time.
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 10, 2021 12:47:18 GMT
can you please explain it to me in more detail when you have the time.
The Avvar had always been described as being rather insular, only venturing out into the lowlands to do the odd bit of trading or raiding. They have never been conquered by anyone so their culture had remained pretty much unchanged from ancient times. Their power structure was different to the lowlanders, as were their customs, such as the climbing wall test of strength and the tradition of the skalds keeping alive their history through an oral singing tradition. Their clothing for the most part was also different from the lowlanders. Their religion was unique to them. Whilst it was possible to draw parallels with some of the elven gods with regard to the identities of the major deities, the idea that the spirits of the Fade are their gods was original to them and for me gave some insight into what the barbarian beliefs were prior to Andraste. I also saw some parallels with what we know about Rivain when it comes to their attitude to the possibility of spirits working with mortals in a benign way. Their belief about reincarnation was something we had only encountered once previously, in the Cult of Andraste at Haven, but the Neromenians were also said to have believed their heroes were reborn as dragons, so reincarnation in one form or another would seem to be an ancient human belief. So I found the whole experience fascinating and what I would expect when encountering a totally new culture. I assume you feel Nevarra is Egypt because of their burial practices, although other nations in our world have practiced mummification. The religion which underpins it though is very different from that of Egypt and seems a peculiar hybrid of Andrastrianism with a custom originating in Tevinter. What I find puzzling about Nevarra is where their tradition sprang from? Apparently, despite the presence of the Orlesian Chantry across the south and despite the long history of Tevinter treachery in the region, a Tevinter mage was able to start a whole new burial custom in the City State of Nevarra before it became a larger nation. Why did the Nevarrans become so enthusiastic about a religious practice that involves interaction with the spirit world when elsewhere the Circles were so wary of possession and had Templars policing such activity? To be honest, I thought it more likely that they had revived an earlier tradition of the natives to the area that had never entirely died out in rural areas (like the Seers in Rivain) but no one has ever said as much. The size of the Grand Necropolis is also odd for a religious practice that has only been around for some 700 years, particularly when you consider that it started within a city state not an empire. Once again, I wonder if they utilised a structure that was already there as the foundation for their edifice. So to my mind the only unique thing about Nevarra is the Grand Necropolis and it would be interesting to visit it, although having read Tevinter Nights there is less to discover now than might have been the case if there had been no introduction in that anthology. As for me associating bright, vibrant colours with Tevinter, that is based on the fact it is a warm, sunny climate, with the major cities situated in coastal locations. As the ruling class are mages and they would set the tone for fashion, I imagined loose flowing robes, suitable for the heat or something more like these images from the Ottoman Empire (the bottom ones are modern day costumes based off a traditional design), which after all bordered Europe in much the same way as Tevinter borders the south. Instead WoT gave us fashion for Tevinter that looks more like they are a bunch of modern Goths. Evil mage empire = black/dark colours - very original. (heavy sarcasm)
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Post by Absafraginlootly on Aug 11, 2021 3:05:20 GMT
As for me associating bright, vibrant colours with Tevinter, that is based on the fact it is a warm, sunny climate, with the major cities situated in coastal locations. As the ruling class are mages and they would set the tone for fashion, I imagined loose flowing robes, suitable for the heat or something more like these images from the Ottoman Empire (the bottom ones are modern day costumes based off a traditional design), which after all bordered Europe in much the same way as Tevinter borders the south. Instead WoT gave us fashion for Tevinter that looks more like they are a bunch of modern Goths. Evil mage empire = black/dark colours - very original. (heavy sarcasm) Tevinter nights doesn't give the impression that all vints look dark and goth. At least not in Vyrantium anyway. Crowd description from Tevinter Nights: "Farther below was a chorus of street traffic. Minrathous was Tevinter's capital, but Vyrantium was her sharp-dressed sister. Amid the sea of brightly coloured tunics, stiletto heels clicked against cobblestone. Necks both fat and thin held up heavy, ornate headpieces with trailing gold embroidered veils. Music from lyres and lutes wrestled for dominance as hawkers touted the latest fashions. Apparently velveteen was in." The Wigmaker Job p. 281 (Bolded emphasis mine) So hopefully this is a sign there will be variety in Tevinter fashion in the game beyond the style in WoT.
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 11, 2021 7:07:53 GMT
Tevinter nights doesn't give the impression that all vints look dark and goth. At least not in Vyrantium anyway. Crowd description from Tevinter Nights: I do wonder if there was a bit of latitude given to the writers with regard to the lore in Tevinter Nights. True stiletto heels weren't invented until the 1950s and yet here they are inserted into a medieval setting and even relevant to the plot in that the body guard dies because she is having to cope with stiletto heals whilst fighting. I mean honestly what idiot, even a fanatical fashion designer, would insist on his soldiers being fashionable rather than practical? Still, I agree that the fact that colourful tunics are mentioned and that Illario thought he was more likely to blend in with a navy and gold tunic, whereas Lucanis was considered to look out of place in his black ensemble, does make me hopeful that we may see a more varied colour pallet in the Imperium. Of course, the Imperium is such a large area that it is perfectly possible for different regions to have their own particular style of clothing. So may be WoT was just referencing what was currently popular in Minrathous but it was just a fashion fad rather than traditional wear. I suppose the other thing to remember is that WoT was meant to have been written by an in-world scholar from the south. From this perspective, naturally they would want to create the impression that the evil wizards in the north all dressed in dark colours, so there is plenty of wriggle room there for the Devs to do something different when we actually go there. There is also this concept art which, whilst having Antivan Crows in the image, seems more likely to be set in Tevinter.
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Post by fairdragon on Aug 12, 2021 6:28:50 GMT
I assume you feel Nevarra is Egypt because of their burial practices, although other nations in our world have practiced mummification. The religion which underpins it though is very different from that of Egypt and seems a peculiar hybrid of Andrastrianism with a custom originating in Tevinter. What I find puzzling about Nevarra is where their tradition sprang from? Apparently, despite the presence of the Orlesian Chantry across the south and despite the long history of Tevinter treachery in the region, a Tevinter mage was able to start a whole new burial custom in the City State of Nevarra before it became a larger nation. Why did the Nevarrans become so enthusiastic about a religious practice that involves interaction with the spirit world when elsewhere the Circles were so wary of possession and had Templars policing such activity? To be honest, I thought it more likely that they had revived an earlier tradition of the natives to the area that had never entirely died out in rural areas (like the Seers in Rivain) but no one has ever said as much. The size of the Grand Necropolis is also odd for a religious practice that has only been around for some 700 years, particularly when you consider that it started within a city state not an empire. Once again, I wonder if they utilised a structure that was already there as the foundation for their edifice. Here you got what i meant. For me nevarras native culture is nevarra. The rest is immigrated and not really nevarra. And i see native nevarra as Egypt like. The traditions and buildings are impressive. I want to see more of it.
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Post by fairdragon on Aug 12, 2021 6:38:44 GMT
As for me associating bright, vibrant colours with Tevinter, that is based on the fact it is a warm, sunny climate, with the major cities situated in coastal locations. As the ruling class are mages and they would set the tone for fashion, I imagined loose flowing robes, suitable for the heat or something more like these images from the Ottoman Empire (the bottom ones are modern day costumes based off a traditional design), which after all bordered Europe in much the same way as Tevinter borders the south. Instead WoT gave us fashion for Tevinter that looks more like they are a bunch of modern Goths. Evil mage empire = black/dark colours - very original. (heavy sarcasm) I understand you want more creativity. I don't see magicians dressed in the Ottoman Empire robes. I will Looking for pictures that show my opinion and then i show you.
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Post by fairdragon on Aug 12, 2021 7:24:09 GMT
Tevinter nights doesn't give the impression that all vints look dark and goth. At least not in Vyrantium anyway. Crowd description from Tevinter Nights: I do wonder if there was a bit of latitude given to the writers with regard to the lore in Tevinter Nights. True stiletto heels weren't invented until the 1950s and yet here they are inserted into a medieval setting and even relevant to the plot in that the body guard dies because she is having to cope with stiletto heals whilst fighting. I mean honestly what idiot, even a fanatical fashion designer, would insist on his soldiers being fashionable rather than practical? Still, I agree that the fact that colourful tunics are mentioned and that Illario thought he was more likely to blend in with a navy and gold tunic, whereas Lucanis was considered to look out of place in his black ensemble, does make me hopeful that we may see a more varied colour pallet in the Imperium. Of course, the Imperium is such a large area that it is perfectly possible for different regions to have their own particular style of clothing. So may be WoT was just referencing what was currently popular in Minrathous but it was just a fashion fad rather than traditional wear. I suppose the other thing to remember is that WoT was meant to have been written by an in-world scholar from the south. From this perspective, naturally they would want to create the impression that the evil wizards in the north all dressed in dark colours, so there is plenty of wriggle room there for the Devs to do something different when we actually go there. There is also this concept art which, whilst having Antivan Crows in the image, seems more likely to be set in Tevinter. I think dorian wears the modern fashionable variant.
I like something like this.
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